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T O P I C
Cruisin' for a Bruisin' 3000AD
July 26th 2000, 22:52 CEST by andy

Developers 3000AD tried unsuccessfully this week to have a number of negative reviews removed from the PCGameReview community site.



PCGameReview allows visitors to post their own brief reviews. 3000AD alleged that several of these reviews, which criticised the company's Battle Cruiser 3000AD game, were "misleading and bogus". The company asked PCGameReview to "completely remove" the reviews, along with "any and all copyrighted material".

The reviews in question were allegedly written by people with malicious intent. Some made comments that indicated they had not actually played the game. One poster, Louis Malandrino, lives near the 3000AD offices and is the subject of a restraining order to prevent him from harassing lead designer Derek Smart. Other posters also have a history of online harassment against Smart, as well as his fiancé and assistant, Lisa Einhoffer.

There is no suggestion that 3000AD has tried, or would try, to have legitimate reviews removed under normal circumstances.

However, the e-mail sent by Lisa Einhoffer referred to a page that contains mainly legitimate comments:

http://www.pcgr.com/reviews/classic_simulation/product_510.asp

The allegedly malicious comments are part of the same set of user-submitted reviews, but appear at a slightly different address:

http://www.pcgr.com/reviews/classic_simulation/product_510.asp?RVNum=-1

Possibly due to this confusion, Eric Newhouse, General Manager of PCGameReview, refused to remove the reviews. When we contacted him about this, he explained:

Yes, we were asked to remove reviews submitted by gamers by someone at 3000AD.

No, we will not be complying with this request.

We realize that if we remove reviews simply because they are critical of a game, we will lose all credibility and the trust of our community. That is anathema to us. Therefore, we will never remove reviews simply because they are critical of a game. In fact, the only time we ever take reviews offline is if they don't meet our common sense guidelines, like no swearing. The full guidelines are here:

http://www.pcgamereview.com/reviews/reviewguide.asp

The system is working, because those gamers critical of the game are being heard. Their reviews will stay online.

Newhouse also posted a copy of Einhoffer's e-mail in one of the PCGameReview forums. The e-mail was edited to remove Einhoffer's surname and privacy statement, which had indicated that the e-mail was confidential.

Having taken legal advice about the posting of private correspondence, Derek Smart asked Newhouse to remove Einhoffer's e-mail within 24 hours and provide a written apology. Newhouse removed the e-mail, but posted another message on the forum, claiming that he had "received an apology" from 3000AD and saying that removal of the e-mail was a "gesture of good faith".

Derek Smart and Lisa Einhoffer both deny giving any apology for asking that the reviews be removed. When asked about this discrepancy, Eric Newhouse commented:

Truthfully, I am tired of this whole affair. PCGameREVIEW.com exists for gamers to discuss games, not people.

Who has apologized to who doesn't concern me. If Derek Smart says he never apologized, I don't care. The important point is, gamer reviews that meet our guidelines will always stay on-line, regardless of whether they are critical of a game, and regardless of whether a publisher or developer exerts pressure to remove them.

It is not clear why PCGameReview was asked to remove all Battle Cruiser 3000AD reviews instead of just those that were allegedly malicious.

C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Cruisin' for a Bruisin' 3000AD

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#1 by ""
2000-07-26 22:56:38
first!

i just want to say that epic and lith suck
#2 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-26 23:05:38
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
Derek Smart has a restraining order against someone who lives near him?  Another example of Derek's winning personality.  :)
#3 by "G-Man"
2000-07-26 23:06:23
jonmars@shiftlock.org http://www.shiftlock.org
Oh sweet Jesus... you just invited Dr. Smart to a battle of wits.

Time for me to take a vacation from PC.

 - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#4 by "None-1a"
2000-07-26 23:13:50
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
Any body read Smart's plea he released with the free version of BC2K. The plea basicly riped apart web site and mags for giving the game bad reviews and talking about it's crash problems (so bad PC-Gamer run a screen shot of the GW4Dos Extender crash). He also went off because every one was down on the manual (which included nothing about the games controls), claming he should be given some slack because much of the work was done by him.

Sounds like he's doing the same thing again.

Of course PCgamesReivew has also made a lot of mistakes on this one as well. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#5 by "BloodKnight"
2000-07-26 23:15:55
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
LOL I read it on the PCGR.com forums, hell I write some of the best reviews there.  I don't mind if a company asks to remove copyright stuff (such as the box), but removing the reviews, negative or not, is corporation harassment

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#6 by "Milky"
2000-07-26 23:19:35
chris@verbalchilli.com http://www.verbalchilli.com
It strikes me that 3000D could waste a lot of time trying to get anything critical of their work removed from the web if they wanted to.

Firstly, there will always be critics. That's not to say we take any notice.

Secondly, if they concentrated more on making decent software and less on censoring the media, people might have less to be critical about.
#7 by "XPav"
2000-07-26 23:19:40
alex@pavloff.net http://www.pavloff.net
Can we take bets on how long it is before Derek Smart and the Wrecking Crew show up?

Anyone ever tried to read comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim?  I do.  I've got many killfiles set up with agent.  Yesterday, I see it download 200 messages, and only 30 get through the BC3K kill file.

All of Derek Smart's online detractors are idiots, but thats about par for the course, because most online people that bash games are idiots.  Derek Smart, however, is the Uber Big Fat Idiot for trying to fight these people.

What we have is a big fat gaggle of idiots.
#8 by "alien8"
2000-07-26 23:26:37
alien@planetunreal.com http://www.planetunreal.com
If BC3000 isn't that bad, and PCGR wrote up a 'bogus review' as Derek Smart says happened, then he has nothing to worry about.  All the other review mags/sites will play the Doctor's game, realize how awesome it is, and great kudos and praises from afar shall be laid upon 3000AD's collective heads.

Or will they?

-alien8<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#9 by "Desiato"
2000-07-26 23:28:15
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
In reference to #1 -- (only in posting, not in content) this "blankman" from a Las Vegas Prime Cablemodem had the temerity to spew --- "i just want to say that epic and lith suck"

Great...time to go back to handing out flyers for the 3pm stripshow, you bozo.

Unless -- you're working on a 3D Engine that is better than both UT and Lith. (Yeah...right.)

Oh--this whole 3000AD thing...reviews should remain regardless of their conclusion, and anyone who pursues someone to the point of getting a restraining order against them should probably re-examine their purpose for living.


Desiato
#10 by "Seven Tacos"
2000-07-26 23:35:27
kurto@asgaard.usu.edu
I think you guys might be getting the who's pursuing who bit mixed up regarding the restraining order. Courts won't typically hand down a restraining order unless there is a pretty valid reason for it. Even if Derek Smart is a prick (dunno, never met the guy) it would take some egregious actions by a harasser in order for a restraining order to be appropriate.
#11 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-26 23:38:29
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<quote>Great...time to go back to handing out flyers for the 3pm stripshow, you bozo.

Unless -- you're working on a 3D Engine that is better than both UT and Lith. (Yeah...right.) </quote>

Hey, give the guy a break ... it's hard to type with hooves.  :)
#12 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-26 23:44:10
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
Seven Tacos :
<quote>Even if Derek Smart is a prick (dunno, never met the guy) it would take some egregious actions by a harasser in order for a restraining order to be appropriate. </quote>

Well, if Derek shows up here, you'll figure out why someone would be driven to "egregious actions" against him.  :)

He showed up at the old crap one time ... thought he was going to be the star of show, and got shut down pretty quick.  Maybe he'll try again...
#13 by "None-1a"
2000-07-26 23:47:49
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#10</b> "Seven Tacos" wrote...
<QUOTE>Even if Derek Smart is a prick (dunno, never met the guy) it would take some
egregious actions by a harasser in order for a restraining order to be
appropriate</QUOTE>

Nope around here they hand them out to any one that's willing to pay the court fees required to get one. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#14 by "XPav"
2000-07-26 23:50:40
alex@pavloff.net http://www.pavloff.net
Amusing cut from the PCGR page:

"Louis from Florida on 7/21/00 10:08:41 PM  
Hours Played: 5"

This further supports my claim that everyone having to do with the BC3K flamewar is an idiot.  

This kid played the game for 5 hours, and has spent probably an hour of his life for the last two years down in the flamewar trenches.

Idiots!

Everywhere!

They're coming out of the walls!

Game over man, GAME OVER!
#15 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-07-26 23:56:55
tc10@st-andrews.ac.thinkaboutitdipshit http://www.fisty.com/~tom
Warren - they <a href="http://www.fisty.com/~tom/images/troll.gif">don't have hooves</a>, you know...
#16 by "Andy"
2000-07-26 23:59:38
andy@planetcrap.com
It's not really relevant to the topic, but for those interested in the restraining order, this is my understanding of events:

* Malandrino fraudulently obtained a free copy of BC3K from 3000AD by misrepresenting who he was.

* Derek Smart found out and his attorney contacted Malandrino's mother, asking that the game be returned or paid for.

* Malandrino sent e-mails to Smart that were of such a nature that the police became involved.

* After police officers went to Malandrino's house, his mother asked Smart not to press charges, so he didn't.

* All of Malandrino's ISP accounts were closed because he had been using them for illegal purposes, or purposes forbidden by the ISP's terms of service.

* Malandrino used his mother's AOL account to send further e-mails to Smart. These e-mails contained transcripts of conversations that were shown to have been falsified.

* Smart went to the police again, and he was advised to obtain a restraining order.

It's a lot more complicated than that, and I've probably missed some events or got something back-to-front because I didn't spend long on this stuff, but at least these are the basics.
#17 by "BloodKnight"
2000-07-27 00:07:20
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>alien8</b> (#8):
<QUOTE>If BC3000 isn't that bad, and PCGR wrote up a 'bogus review' as Derek Smart says
happened, then he has nothing to worry about. All the other review mags/sites
will play the Doctor's game, realize how awesome it is, and great kudos and
praises from afar shall be laid upon 3000AD's collective heads.

Or will
they? </QUOTE>

Reason why they praise is they get free shit and other little useless things from the developer.  Its very much

"Here is a free game, and a t-shirt"
"Ok, game is going to get 8 out of 10"
"Here is 500 dollars"
"Did I say 8?  I meant 10"

Thats why PCGR is such a great site, unbiased reviews on games.  People will say if the game sucks or not, and not be biased a developer nor publisher.  Derek Smart is a dumbass, reminds me of John Romero's long lost twin brother, except Derek is a 'never was', while Romero is a 'has been'


<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#18 by "Schlag!"
2000-07-27 00:08:17
toddgod@yahoo.com
Christ, you'd think Smart would learn. But he doesn't. He's been poisoing usenet with his horrific spam, has the online personality of a warthog, and has been hyping his damn "game" well after it's sell-by date. The funny thing is, I think a lot of gamers would like to see the large, open-ended, persistant space sim he talks up. But the guy apparently can't shut up... there is a lesson in here for other developers as well; would Romero's Daikatatana (or however the hell you spell it) have recieved so much shit if he had just shut up, put his head down, and quietly released it? And what about Black and White? If I have to read one more "preview" of this thing, I swear I won't like it unless it fixes me steak and cleans my house while I play. Hype almost never pays off. Smart's brand of hype is particularly odious, but it amounts to the same thing... a smokescreen for a game that is just not up to snuff. The more hype surrounding a game (generally) the bigger the POS released.
#19 by "XPav"
2000-07-27 00:12:39
alex@pavloff.net http://www.pavloff.net
<QUOTE>People will say if the game sucks or not, and not be biased a developer nor publisher. </QUOTE>

I think the problem here is that people are negatively reviewing the game, without having played it, just because they're the members of the Anti Derek Smart Patrol.  

It's biased, but in the negative direction, because of the publisher or developer, which is the exact opposite of the "you've been bought off" bias.
#20 by "BloodKnight"
2000-07-27 00:16:42
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>XPav</b> (#19):
<QUOTE>


<quote>People will say if the game sucks or not, and not be biased a developer nor publisher. </quote>

I think the problem here is that people are negatively reviewing the game, without having played it, just because they're the members of the Anti Derek Smart Patrol.

It's biased, but in the negative direction, because of the publisher or developer, which is the exact opposite of the "you've been bought off" bias.


</QUOTE>

I write reviews on PCGR, and I am never biased.  I simply tell the truth.  If my reviews have negative comments, then there is something wrong with the game I am reviewing, ain't it?  I don't praise or hate a game, I just say if its worth to get, or worth to throw at your EB retailer nearby.  In this case, it looked like that 3000AD isn't good at all, at least from 3 people that reviewed it, which I doubt it 'just happened'
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#21 by "Whisp"
2000-07-27 00:44:58
whisp_@hotmail.com
The reviews for the game are definitely interesting.  Many of the reviewers stated they had played the game for more time than seems credible.  Those that liked it, probably did so just for effect, since they put numbers down like 15,000+ hours.  Some of the bad reviews ( only one fence-sitter there) claim they logged more than 10 hours of play time on a game they claim is unplayable, and too horrible to describe.  That's dedication.

Also take a look at the reviews of the comments.  Universally, the reviews that bash the game got rated about 3.5/4, and the reviews that praise the game were ranked 1/4.  The one mediocre review was rated, interestingly enough, 2.3/4, despite in my opinion being one of the better reviews.  Definite slant is apparent.

-Whisp
#22 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-27 00:47:01
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
you do know that saying his name will summon him ?





Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#23 by "Derek Smart"
2000-07-27 00:48:13
dsmart@3000ad.com http://www.3000ad.com
Hello, boys and girls, the bad man is...oh wait, wrong game! (hi Jason!) :-)

Anyway, the whole thing is just one of those perpetrated by sites looking for a quick fix. There are quite a number of bad reviews of my game, on <b>my</b> site!! I don't have a problem against negative reviews, because after all, they are more often than not, based on the reviewer's personal opinion. If you go to www.3000ad.com/reviews/index.shtml you will see for yourself. Everyone knows that the BC series is geared toward a niche audience and I really give a rat's ass about the majority. I'm perfectly happy with my minory niche group. They're enough to pay the bills and keep me in business - thats all I care about.

This whole pcgr issue had <b>nothing</b> to do with removing reviews per se, and I fear that our illustrous leader Andy, left out some critical facts. :-) I will recant them as they occured. In fact, here is a cut and paste jobbie that says it all.

<quote>
This happened on 7/21 in the following order:

- a member of my community, sent us a URL to the corporate@3000ad.com address, alerting us to the fact that the detracting element had started posting bogus reviews over at pcgr.com a site which allows 'consumers' to post reviews about products. A site which has been on the end of several lawsuits, threats of lawsuits, from several hardware/software manufacturers in the past, over the same thing.

- My fiance and assistant, Lisa, mentioned it and since I was too busy to be bothered by it, I asked her to deal with it and she then contacted Eric Newhouse at eric@pcgr.com

- Guess what he goes and does? He posts her email on their public pcgr.com discussion board, after editing out the privacy statement in the sig as well as her last name. Which led to a bunch of derogatory posts etc
 
- So, I called my attorney and contacted Max Mancini over at consumerreview.com, the owners of the pcgr.com site. He called me twice yesterday, trying to reach me and finally got me in the late evening. In that converstation,
he agreed that Eric should not have posted the email in public discussion and that he would ask him to remove it. We then went into the the Communications & Decency laws etc, in which he said that Eric's action was not legally actionable because upon receipt of email, the receipient can do what the hell they like with it. Of course, this is contrary to the fact that (a) it is not proper etiquette for the media to do that (b) there is a clear warning in the sig of all email addresses from here about the privacy of said emails. But, since he had agreed to have it removed, I decided not to
get bogged down with who was right or wrong.

During the day, I contacted my print and online press friends, asking them what they thought of someone in the media doing this sort of thing and releasing confidential email to the public. Each of the 9 people who I spoke to on the phone and who responded via email, agreed that it was conduct unbecoming.

- Guess what? This morning I woke up to an email with a URL. When I went to the link, this is what I saw. Not only had Eric, again, *twisted* the facts (no doubt in an attempt to save face), he didn't remove the discussion, but rather, relocated it to a new URL.

http://www.pcgr.com/forums/cgibin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&omm=0&om=519&forum=General
</quote>

When Eric posted her email, he was just looking for some sort of reaction from his community. Lisa's email was refering to the bogus reviews
that were being posted. And contrary to the statements on their privacy page at the URL below, they refused to investigate and/or make corrections.

http://www.consumerreview.com/shared/copyright/policy_pcgame.html#privacy

I had asked my community to steer clear of the controversy but during my conversation with Max, he suggested that it would better if the people who had actually played the game, posted their reviews and that they, in turn, would weed out the bogus ones.

Well, guess what? They're still up, with the exception of some reviews by people who have played the game. The reviews by the Usual Suspects (the same idiots harrassing and stalking me on the Net for years on end), stick out like a sore thumb. Here is a run down.

<quote>
I will start from the main link:

http://www.pcgr.com/reviews/classic_simulation/product_510.asp?RVNum=-1

1. Andrew Cox. Unknown. But this person *definitely* owns some version of the game. He
probably owns the original 1996 version. BC3K v2.0 was released on 12/98 by Interplay,
on 10/99 by GTi (now Infogrames) and on 2/00 by Jack Of All Games.

2. Allan Parent. A known detractor who (a) does not own the game (b) is banned from our site
(c) spends his time on the Usenet harrassing me and my employees (c) and is a cohort of Louis (below) & co who has a restraining order petition against him, in place.

3. Louis. Is the Florida kid in question who (a) forged an email header, commited mail fraud
and obtained a copy of the game, for his Mac - not knowing that it was PC only (b) has had
several criminal complaints filed against him (he lives 15 mins from my office) and he was
not prosecuted because he was a juvenille. Once he turned 18, a restraining order was filed
against him. He is banned from our site and several others. A complete online dossier,
with scans of police reports, court orders etc, is maintained by out CAT team at www.3000ad.com/temp/louisJM.zip When the Police came to the house when we discovered that he
had, again, hacked an IRC server log and posted fraudlent logs, his mother pleaded with me to
drop the case. I did. Further, we then discovered that he didn't even own a PC, but rather, an aging Mac. His mother returned the fraudulently obtained game. He has had accounts from maconline.com, bellsouth.net and his own aol.com one, all closed for some activity or another and according to his mother, he uses her AOL email account when she's not around.

4. Shaft. Unknown. But I can tell you that (a) the game does not have MIDI music, (b) it runs
on all 3Dfx cards (c) You can't go into orbit. In short, this looks like yet another post,
under an alias. This person clearly does *not* own this game. But, don't take my word for
it, I would be more than willing to send your people, several copies of the game.

This person's post looks suspiciously like Bill Huffman, another detractor who has had a
harrassment campaign, (also reported to the authorities and with documented paperwork)
against me. In fact, he has an entire website dedicated to libelous contents and has had,
to date, 4 ISPs close his website and accounts over his campaign. Because it is easy to
get webspace these days, he just moves on a new site. But, not for long.

5. ryu-dog. See #2 above

6. Mark. (aka Mark Williams from the UK) See #2 above
</quote>

Just go to deja.com and check the threads in the space sim group and you'll see this idiots all there, doing what they've been doing since 1996 and polluting the groups with nonsensical garbage.

So, <b>thats</b> what that was about. It had <b>nothing</b> to do with suppressing reviews. Why would I waste my time with stuff like that? BC3K v2.0 was released by Interplay on 12/98, by GT/Infogrames on 12/99 and JOAG on 2/00 and has done very well, especially in light of the fact that is an old DOS game released in '98 - and in an industry dominated by multi-million dollar flops from the likes of our friends in the industry churning out flop, after flop, after flop.

Apart from that, my first game bombed in '96 when Take2 released it incomplete, but, I slaved to get it back, and then when I did, after an expensive legal tussle, I released it for <b>free</b>. And continued working on it for free. I only did the v2.0x series because it was the right thing to do for fans who had been burned the first time and which is why I made it a cheap upgrade. GT didn't pick up the rights until well after a year, based on the sales of Interplay's release. It went on from there.

And one of the things that keeps us going, is the community and in every interview (such as the most recent 9 page affair over at avault.com) I keep saying the same thing: good, bad or ugly, its the fan base that matters. So, I would be hard pressed to tell pcgr to pull reviews (even bad ones) from legitimate owners. But, apart from <b>one</b> unknown person on those review links, those bogus reviews are by the Usual Suspects and not by gamers who actually own/played the game.

Eric is a deplorable piece of turd. These days, any jackass with a website and a dictionary, thinks he/she is in the media.

That is all

That kid Louis is a piece of work. He has an entire dossier up at www.3000ad.com/temp/louisJM.zip
#24 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-27 01:02:05
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
I told you .. I BLOODY TOLD YOU....



/me recalls PC2 ....



Dr Smart there ... almost broke the asp code with the lengths of his posts....


you thought mine were bad in the N.Ireland thread, think again. Actually you could ahve formatted them into PDF and sold them as books.... like Stephen King.


Battlecruiser, battlschmoozer


I WANT GL-ELITE.


DS<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#25 by "Derek Smart"
2000-07-27 01:02:36
dsmart@3000ad.com http://www.3000ad.com
BloodKnight, I've seen some of your posts on that same thread over at pcgr - and you haven't even played the game? Tell me, oh ye of unbiased faith, which part of the slant on the reviews page, eludes you? I mean, really. I'd like to know.

You were one of those ready to jump on Eric's every word, <b>regardless</b> of the facts. I have posted <b>facts</b> that <b>prove</b> that those reviews in question, are bogus, let me see you pcgr guys, try to refute them. The fact is, you can't. Period. The statements on the privacy page, are at best, laughable.

Its people like Eric who take the First Amendment, shit it in and mail it back to Congress, all the while hiding behind the notion that is free speech. And as I understand it, this is not the first time they've had run ins with developers and manufacturers over stuff like this. Just wait until I get on CNN.

I'm from the only school and was totally against any form of Internet censorship whatsovever. Nowadays with all the retards that get to go online and cause havoc, I can't wait for the govt to come up with legislature that gives stronger powers to the authorities in controling the Internet. There, I've said it - and anyone who hates my views, as usual, can come blow me.

My next soapbox rant, which of course gets a pretty wide audience is going to document this farce. And by the time I'm done, Eric won't know what hit him. It is a small industry and I've seen more movers and shakers in my time, that I care to remember. It always comes around. Always. A corporation sends you email and you, ignoring the privacy statement in it, posts it in a public forum and turns it into a farce? Just wait.
#26 by "Derek Smart"
2000-07-27 01:04:06
dsmart@3000ad.com http://www.3000ad.com
LOL!, hey DS, does anyone know how to make URL links in this crapware? Or should I just use regular HTML? Let me try that:

<a href="www.3000ad.com">3000AD Website</a>
#27 by "BloodKnight"
2000-07-27 01:05:15
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>Derek Smart</b> (#23):
<QUOTE>So, <B>thats</B> what that was about. It had <B>nothing</B> to do with
suppressing reviews. Why would I waste my time with stuff like that? </QUOTE>

You just did.  If they were such idiots that you claim these reviewers are, you wouldn't waste your time with them like you said.  You also mentioned on the letter NOTHING about why these were 'bogus reviews'.  All the e-mail said was 'get rid of that page because it has bogus reviews'.  The e-mail didn't explain why they were bogus reviews, but it still demanded to begone from PCGR.  I am not surprised about it, I would have done the some thing if I recieved such a demanding and stupid e-mail.  Next time, if you want something removed, give an explaination on it


<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#28 by "Konrad"
2000-07-27 01:16:39
I don't have the attention span to read through Derek's BEEG post ('rats ass' was my limit) but I think this link is relevant:

http://www.3000ad.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000744.html

Probably explains the rave (more balanced?) reviews given to the game later in that thread.

Beep, ERROR! ERROR!

And I won't touch the last two sentences in that linked post with a barge pole.

"I had only one choice. Shave half of my beard."
- http://mudhead.uottawa.ca/~pete/beard.html
#29 by "Konrad"
2000-07-27 01:20:22
<a href="http://www.3000ad.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000744.html">let me try that again</a>

Need some Ritalin.
#30 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-27 01:27:34
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
+sarcasm.

Good evening ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Pro Celebrity Developer Deathmatch (tm), tonights matchup sees an interesting if somewhat unusual match up for your entertainment.  Without further ado, lets take you to Michaal the ring announcer for the introductions.

IINNNNNNN the Red Corner, standing 6'6, wearing the Blood red shorts,  weighing in at 280lbs, its the black Bomber ... JAAAAAYSSSSSON  'King of the Monstars' HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLL

And, INNNNNNN the Blue Corner, standing 6'9, wearing black with spangly star shorts,  weighing in at 300lbs, its the one, the only ... Dr Derek Smart's EGO!!!!!!!!!


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, Ramtin and Jeet, for the thousands in attendance, and the millions watching at home, are you ready ... ARE, YOU, RRRRRREADY

*Crowd Roar*

llllllllLets get ready to RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUUMMMMBLLLLE!



Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#31 by "Derek Smart"
2000-07-27 01:29:54
dsmart@3000ad.com http://www.3000ad.com
<quote>
All the e-mail said was 'get rid of that page because it has bogus reviews'. The e-mail didn't explain why they were bogus reviews, but it still demanded to begone from PCGR.</quote>

I agree with you whole heartedly on this point.
But the fact remains - there is <b>proof</b> that they are bogus, yet, no action has been taken. For one thing, Louis <b>never</b> played the game or even owns it. And that latest post from Susan? LOL!!!

At any rate, had I written that email, it wouldn't have been so short. It would be have quite a read - and by the time they were done reading, they'd be hollering for their attorneys. The fact is, when I did contact Eric's boss, Max, I did get a call back and we agreed to disagree and resolve the situation. But no, that prick Eric, to save face (and probably pissed that I went to his boss), continues to make things worse for himself.

Poor Lisa is new at this and now that I'm in dev crunch mode, handles some of my non-dev duties for me. When she mentioned the original email link sent to us, I simply said to her something like: <i>oh yeah?......get those bastards to remove that crap from there, or they are to remove any and all 3000AD copyright from their page. And if they refuse, well, tell them not to refuse if they don't want to hear from me.</i>

She skipped out all the swear words (I think <i>fool</i> was the closest interpretation she could come up with) and sent Eric an abbreviated version.

She particularly distraught by her email appearing in public forum and being subjected to ridicule because of all the stalking and harrassment that goes on. We had to move homes a few months ago, because of that kid Louis and his friend Bill Huffman, prompting him to come by my house (<i>as if the July 4th '99 stalking incident in which he was following my 500SL around the neighborhood, wasn't enough</i>).

As if <b>that</b> wasn't bad enough, we had a baby a few months ago and Bill Huffman and his cronies were actually searching through birth records, hospitals etc, to find <i>Derek's child</i>. Do you have any idea how traumatic that is? Me? I can take it because no snivelling bastard is going to put me under siege and get away with it. Fuck 'em.

In fact, Max, that prick Eric's boss, actually thought that she was calling their community readers, fools - when in fact, she was refering to the Usual Suspects, known to us and who were spiking the reviews page with garbage.

Thats how that prick, Eric, from left field, manufactured an apology, to save face for even having to <b>move</b> the original email link to a separate page, on Max's orders. They <b>knew</b> they were wrong, but an admission of guilt is a sure fire way to get slapped with a lawsuit; so, this is the bogus bullshit corporation stance that they took.

If Eric knew who I was, I doubt that he would have posted that I apologized, so as a result, he was moving the thread - because anyone who knows me, <b>Derek Smart</b> would take one look at that particular notion and laugh out loud.
#32 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-27 01:41:57
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
Derek ... when you meet someone in an elevator and they casually say, "How are you?" ... do you give them a 45 minute speech about your personal wellness?  Keerist...
#33 by "crash"
2000-07-27 01:53:44
crash@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Darkseid:

LOL. think i'm gonna pee my pants laughin.

<i>#include "disclaimer.h"</i><I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "Charlie Wiederhold"
2000-07-27 02:00:32
charliew@3drealms.com
Being one of those people guilty of writing abnormally long replies: If somebody doesn't want to hear my full explanation on my personal well being, they shouldn't have asked in the first place. Better than those annoying people who pop their heads in the room, say a quick sentence, and run off to do a hit and run comment elsewhere. ;)

This really is like developer tag team wrestling. Apogee tags Monolith into the ring, who then tags Derek Smart into the bout. Who... will.. be... next?

Charlie Wiederhold
#35 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-27 02:01:33
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>BloodKnight wrote in post #17:</b>
<quote>Reason why they praise is they get free shit and other little useless things from the developer. Its very much </quote>
I haven't read past this post yet, but do you have anything to back this up with? The majority of game publications I can see don't mess with this kind of shit, and it's pretty obvious.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#36 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-27 02:03:58
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
*takes the Tag and nails Jaaaaaaaaayson with a Superplex, followed up with a legdrom, then rolls him into a texas cloverleaf*


*spots Crash come around ring side and reaches one arm out to get extra purchase*

*referee spots outside interference and breaks the hold*

*Ds, releases, but pulls the Blood red shorts to stop Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayson making a tag*

*Ds Tags in Taskmaster*


;)

Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#37 by "BloodKnight"
2000-07-27 02:07:07
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>Dethstryk</b> (#35):
<QUOTE>I haven't read past this post yet, but do you have anything to back this up
with? The majority of game publications I can see don't mess with this kind of
shit, and it's pretty obvious. </QUOTE>

Yes and no.  Lowtax is one example of a reviewer, not saying he is biased, but the guy does get stuff for free for being 'part of the gaming community'.  In case you didn't check out Somethingawful, a while ago I think he got V5 and a Geforce 2 by mail, for reasons I don't know.  At least this is what I think he meant.  Also I know someone within the gamespy network (won't mention him) that gets free games, one of them in the future is Red Alert 2.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#38 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-27 02:11:38
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>BloodKnight wrote in post #37:</b>
<quote>Yes and no. Lowtax is one example of a reviewer, not saying he is biased, but the guy does get stuff for free for being 'part of the gaming community'. In case you didn't check out Somethingawful, a while ago I think he got V5 and a Geforce 2 by mail, for reasons I don't know. At least this is what I think he meant. Also I know someone within the gamespy network (won't mention him) that gets free games, one of them in the future is Red Alert 2. </quote>
Because you get something free doesn't mean you have to review it dishonestly. Everything I review on my own site is usually sent to me, and it doesn't make a difference. You have to be truthful to your audience. In face, most gaming sites do get their stuff free.

As for Lowtax, I can't see him being biased at all. Did you read his Daikatana review? And didn't we also go through that whole Eidos-GameFan-Something Awful ownership links? It doesn't matter. I haven't seen a review of one of those video cards on his site yet.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#39 by "Whisp"
2000-07-27 02:13:23
whisp_@hotmail.com
<b>#33</b> "crash" wrote...
<QUOTE>
LOL. think i'm gonna pee my pants laughin.

<I>#include "disclaimer.h"</I></QUOTE>
I hit the load button and up came <b>#22</b>.  Uh oh, I thought.  Then I moved down to <b>#23</b>.  I laughed out loud so hard my roommate now thinks I'm mentally deficient.


<b>#34</b> "Charlie Wiederhold" wrote...
<QUOTE>This really is like developer tag team wrestling. Apogee tags Monolith into the
ring, who then tags Derek Smart into the bout. Who... will.. be... next?
</QUOTE>
Pikachu, I choose you!  

-Whisp
#40 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-27 02:13:37
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Dethstryk wrote in post #38:</b>
<quote>--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming </quote>
Eh, yeah.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#41 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-27 02:14:05
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Dethstryk wrote in post #38:</b>
<quote>--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming </quote>
Eh, yeah.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#42 by "BloodKnight"
2000-07-27 02:15:53
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>Dethstryk</b> (#38):
<QUOTE>Because you get something free doesn't mean you have to review it dishonestly.
Everything I review on my own site is usually sent to me, and it doesn't make a
difference. You have to be truthful to your audience. In face, most gaming sites
do get their stuff free.

As for Lowtax, I can't see him being biased at
all. Did you read his Daikatana review? And didn't we also go through that whole
Eidos-GameFan-Something Awful ownership links? It doesn't matter. I haven't seen
a review of one of those video cards on his site yet.
</QUOTE>

Well I am just saying that usually a lot of reviewers recieve shit for free, and try to post good things about it.  Not saying all, but a lot of reviewers do this.  The more pampering, the better reviews.  Look at Diablo 2, its good, but not the greatest thing, but reviewers still give it really high rating.  Reason why is probably they were in the 'diablo 2 test', aka Pampered<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#43 by "Whisp"
2000-07-27 02:16:38
whisp_@hotmail.com
<b>#40</b> "Dethstryk" wrote...
<QUOTE>
<B>Dethstryk wrote in post #38:</B>

<quote>--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming </quote>
Eh, yeah.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
</QUOTE>
<b>#41</b> "Dethstryk" wrote...
<QUOTE>
<B>Dethstryk wrote in post #38:</B>

<quote>--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming </quote>
Eh, yeah.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming


</QUOTE>
Now I'm <b>really </b>impressed.

-Whisp
#44 by "Whisp"
2000-07-27 02:20:02
whisp_@hotmail.com
<b>#42</b> "BloodKnight" wrote...
<QUOTE>Look at Diablo 2, its good, but not the greatest thing, but reviewers still give
it really high rating. Reason why is probably they were in the 'diablo 2 test',
aka Pampered</QUOTE>
You don't think that it is at all possible that they just thought is really was the greatest thing?  I happen to really enjoy it, and think it's one of the most enjoyable titles I have played for quite awhile.  It struck me as a well polished product.  Sure, it kind of bites that the BNET servers were so crappy when the game came out, but that doesn't make the game any less good.

-Whisp
#45 by "BloodKnight"
2000-07-27 02:24:23
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
"But the fact remains - there is proof that they are bogus, yet, no action has been taken. For one thing, Louis never played the game or even owns it. "

Proof?  Show it then.  What proof do you have that Louis didn't play 3000AD?  You can't just say you have proof and expect people to believe you.



"A corporation sends you email and you, ignoring the privacy statement in it, posts it in a public forum and turns it into a farce? Just wait."

Anyone in the right mind that believes a lot in freedom of speech, would have done the same thing with e-mail saying 'take out that page because it has bogus reviews, even though we are not mentioning proof'.  I would have done the same thing if I recieved e-mail insulting the visitors that visit the site.  If you wrote the e-mail and made it more sense and gave some proof, fine, then I doubt Erik would post it.  But as of now, the e-mail Lisa sent, was and still is a joke.


"BloodKnight, I've seen some of your posts on that same thread over at pcgr - and you haven't even played the game?"

If you consider 5 minutes of gameplay at a friend's house before it crashed 'played the game', then yes.



"You were one of those ready to jump on Eric's every word, regardless of the facts."

I read it, and I found it dumb.  I think that e-mail was a pathetic attempt to 'cover up' a game that bombed.  And plus no 'facts' were displayed on the e-mail nor the thread, so am I supposed to know whats right and whats wrong with no evidence whatsoever?  And why would this e-mail be sent NOW?



"There, I've said it - and anyone who hates my views, as usual, can come blow me."

Right back at ya!


<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#46 by "Derek Smart"
2000-07-27 02:26:57
dsmart@3000ad.com http://www.3000ad.com
<b>Warren</b>
<quote>
Derek ... when you meet someone in an elevator and they casually say, "How are you?" ... do you give them a 45 minute speech about your personal wellness? Keerist... </quote>

I'm rarely allowed out of the home/office, so I rarely get to use elevators. However, I have been curious as to why, in the 5 months of being in this new house, I have yet to run into my neighbors. Think they know something, I don't?
#47 by "BloodKnight"
2000-07-27 02:27:03
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>Whisp</b> (#44):
<QUOTE>You don't think that it is at all possible that they just thought is really was
the greatest thing? I happen to really enjoy it, and think it's one of the most
enjoyable titles I have played for quite awhile. It struck me as a well polished
product. Sure, it kind of bites that the BNET servers were so crappy when the
game came out, but that doesn't make the game any less good.
</QUOTE>

I played it for a week borrowed from a friend, it was good, but not great.  If a lot of people who said it sucked, but those 'few' (reviews on sites) say its the greatest thing, don't you think its quite odd for that to happen?

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "shinything"
2000-07-27 02:34:07
shinything@yahoo.com
<b>BloodKnight</b> #37 :

 <quote>...I know someone within the gamespy network (won't mention him) that gets free games, one of them in the future is Red Alert 2. </quote>

If a company want a high profile review without "taking the chance" that a reviewer will purchase their product, makes sense that they would send that product to the people from whom they want to get reviews. Wouldn't really consider it bribery until actual cash starts changing hands (swag is cool).

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#49 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-27 02:34:42
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<quote>I'm rarely allowed out of the home/office, so I rarely get to use elevators. However, I have been curious as to why, in the 5 months of being in this new house, I have yet to run into my neighbors. Think they know something, I don't?</quote>

That ...   ..


Nah, too easy ...
#50 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-27 02:37:56
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>BloodKnight wrote in post #42:</b>
<quote>Look at Diablo 2, its good, but not the greatest thing, but reviewers still give it really high rating. Reason why is probably they were in the 'diablo 2 test', aka Pampered</quote>
There's nothing wrong with someone thinking a game is so good it deserves a "really high rating." It is the number one selling game, remember?

(No one say so was Who Wants to be a Millionaire. That piece of crap isn't a game. Diablo 2 is a _real_ game.)


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
C O M M E N T S
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