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T O P I C
Video Games Aren't Diverse Enough
September 28th 2004, 10:39 CEST by Sgt Hulka

"Nearly all the game heroes are white males." Well, maybe we could put some Arab males in the video games.  Maybe we could dress some in flowing robes or maybe in dirty nightshirts.  That way we could be sure to have some diversity in video games.  

Maybe we could have some women who look like Rosie O'Donnell.  You know, with a strap-on chin.  Yea, have a strap-on chin to make them look more like a male.  Eighty-six percent of black women were portrayed as victims of violence, and there were no Hispanic female characters.  How racist.  How racist!

The study also said that 89 percent of the games contained some violent content.  Of course, that's why kids buy them.  Half of which resulted in damage to a game character.  Don't these idiots understand that that's how the kids get it out of their system?  When I was a kid, I wanted cap guns.  I shot everyone who came in my little apartment.

I remember I had cap guns, and I dressed up as one of my cowboy heroes.  I don't recall who he was.  An anyone who came in our little apartment, my father's friends, my mother's friends, I would shoot them with my cap guns.

I've never shot anyone since with a real gun.  Never killed anybody. I had a Dails BB gun.  I was always impressed with weapons.  Despite the fact that I was on the high school rifle team, I never killed a soul.  I never picked up the gun and ran through the halls.  I never ran amok and shot anybody.  I got it out of my system with a cap gun.  Don't these morons understand that?

Boys want to be tough.  Boys want to be heroes.  They don't want to grow up with a dress.  They don't want to wear a garter belt and stockings in school.  What am I surprised that the lefties want more diversity and perversity in video games?  I say, go ahead and create one.  See if there's a market for it.  Put out a video game with a diverse character and see if it sells.  It's a free market.

What the radical liberals want is for the government to fund "diverse video games" and then force the little video veggies to play them.  In other words, they want socialism.  Do you finally understand what socialism is?  It's the impositions of unwanted thoughts and services on people.  It's the imposition of broken products on people.  The next thing the left will attempt to mandate will be free video games for illegal immigrants to play before they sneak across the border.  The INS will be required to provide a "Border-Buster," batteries included, as a door prize.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is from a book I'm reading called The Savage Nation by Michael Savage.
I found it an interesting topic to bring up in front of the class.  

Discuss.
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Video Games Aren't Diverse Enough

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#1 by m0nty
2004-09-28 10:40:06
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Funny how a liberal like me could have been the deciding vote on this one.
#2 by Leslie Nassar
2004-09-28 10:41:24
http://departmentofinternets.com
maybe you're a big-L liberal in disguise?

My favorite band sucks.
#3 by m0nty
2004-09-28 11:12:44
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Of course we know all about Michael Savage, a.k.a. Michael A. Weiner. He's so notorious as a bile-spewing right-wing bigot that he has not one anti-Savage site, but two anti-Savage sites. Since this book was released to stinging reviews, he had his MSNBC show cancelled and his talk radio show is rating poorly.

Now, we've had a few small moves towards diversity in gaming recently, with Cate Archer being an improvement over Lara Croft, dual-sex leading roles in games like Star Trek: Elite Forces and a gradual inclusion of more non-WASP models in the various multiplayer FPS clones. However, the vast majority of characters in gendered games still tend strongly towards outdated stereotyping, with males boasting rippling pecs under demure clothing, while the females are mostly from the Paul Steed School of Chainmail Bikini Bitches. Hulka, I don't think you can argue that there is a lack of diversity in gaming characters.

Also, Savage says socialism is about "broken products" - what complete bullshit. Capitalism is about broken products, via the notion of inbuilt obsolescence. Capitalists want to sell you broken products because that means you'll buy more products, because that's their motivation. I'm not saying socialism is much better in practice, but he can't claim capitalism is superior.
#4 by The_Joker
2004-09-28 11:32:31
http://www.jackinworld.com
i've got something liberal for all 'o ya.....

in my pants.

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
The American government and its supporters suck cock. See Fahrenheit 9/11 and discover the truth.
#5 by gaggle
2004-09-28 13:17:31
While Michael Savage sounds like an idiot, I'd welcome more diversity. But I think it's a result of the young age of games, there's simply not a lot of room for all manner of characters. Well, actually, the RPGs I've played have had diverse characters.. not all women were beautiful, not all men were muscular. But, say, in an FPS, which is the homebase for Paul Steed models, there's rarely been the chance to interact much with anyone. And if your game has no depth you have to make the surface as attractive as possible, so it gravitates towards big boobs and muscles.

It seems to me like there are a bunch of non-stereotyped examples available though, so I wouldn't classify this as a major problem. The 'Trek lady wore no bikinis, the teammates in the various WWII shooters rarely sported huge muscles and flimsy tribal clothing.. I'm not sure about Deus Ex, but I don't recall an enourmous amount of naked chicks in the demo. Then there's D3 and Half-Life etc. etc.

she tells him she's in church / but she doesn't go / still she's on her knees
#6 by coda
2004-09-28 13:55:09
http://fragged.org/
diverse? whine.

"I know that human beings and fish can co-exist peacefully" - G. W. Bush
#7 by LPMiller
2004-09-28 14:00:52
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I would have wore a garter belt and stockings in school. Some chicks dig that.

When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
#8 by ProStyle
2004-09-28 14:30:17
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
Bummer, man. Not what I was looking forward to first thing in the morning! I'm not sure if this is worse than the IRC logs or not.

Fabricated like the word absurditive
#9 by deadlock
2004-09-28 14:35:49
http://www.deadlocked.org/
What's this guy saying, precisely? That boys like guns and girls like to look sexy, ergo any attempt to portray anything other than a sexy/musclebound gun-toting male or female WASP is a liberalist conspiracy undersigned by socialists? He evidently hasn't read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion otherwise he'd be citing the Jewish connection as well.

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas will really fry his brain, given that the protagonist is not only black, but potentially a fat bastard as well.

shut up.
#10 by Marsh Davies
2004-09-28 14:50:30
www.verbalchilli.com
Whilst I agree with Savage that enforced diversity is somewhat ridiculous, I think he's wrong on a huge number of assumptions. So wrong in fact, that I can happily dismiss him as a twat.

a) Games are naturally becoming more diverse anyway, in reflection of the rapidly diversifying gameplaying demographic, and will continue to do so.
b) There is a market for non-violent games. Sims, Myst, etc.
c) Savage confuses diversity with casual racism. Dirty nightshirts, indeed.
d) The idea of enforced diversity is not an inherently liberal or left-wing idea, though it may be espoused by people who claim to be liberal or left-wing.
e) Being liberal is not the same as being left-wing, and neither are these the same as being socialist.
f) None of these groups wants illegal immigrants, and their views on asylum seekers and immigration are not relevant to diversity in computer games.

#11 by Marsh Davies
2004-09-28 14:54:54
www.verbalchilli.com
Unless of course Savage believes black/hispanic/chinese/arabic/asian/etc. people who play computer games to all be illegal immigrants, in which case, illegal immigrants are an important issue in terms of representing diversity.

#12 by Marsh Davies
2004-09-28 15:03:58
www.verbalchilli.com
Here's an entertaining quote from savagestupidity.com that I think indicates the calibre of Savage's cultural critique:
Savage has, among other well documented comments, labeled the ACLU a "terrorist organization", called GLBT pride marchers "the brownshirts of the modern era" and claimed that "the gay and lesbian mafia wants your children", called teenage kindnap/rape victims "sluts", and said women should be denied the vote because "their hormones rage... they are too emotional". These are not isolated statements, but characteristic of his show on a daily basis: as recently as June 9th, 2003, SavageStupidity.com documented him stating that for every one hard working farmworker taking jobs Americans don't want, there are "four or five" illegal immigrants "sitting in front of the television" on welfare, "popping out babies like tasty bread".


#13 by Marsh Davies
2004-09-28 15:04:22
www.verbalchilli.com
Hat-trick. Neh neh.

#14 by ProStyle
2004-09-28 15:04:39
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
He obviously never played Border for TF. Now that's what I call promoting diversity!

Fabricated like the word absurditive
#15 by Charles
2004-09-28 15:25:54
www.bluh.org
You know, all character assassinations aside, there is a definite lack of diversity in games, and it's fostered by the industry, and some of it borders on racism, IMO.

When we were discussing ideas for our lead character, we wanted to come up with something that made him stand out.  We examined a whole lot of games and isolated the features which made their characters stand out.  And most of the time, it was a visual attribute.  During this discussion, they were looking for ideas, and I casually mentioned "Let's make our hero black.  To my knowledge, that hasn't really been done by any high profile game yet."  I was immediately hit with heavy resistance.  Some of the arguments I've heard include "Most of the people who play games are white males", "We have to appeal to our demographic", "It's too risky, we could get bad press", and, no joke, "White people don't want to play black characters."  Of course, I thought pretty much all of these were ridiculous, as would many people.  And yet, there were no qualms raised by anyone other than myself about the fact that one of the main antagonists is, surprise, black.  

The one victory myself and my sane coworkers have had, was that our main female character is both fully clothed and properly proportioned.  A small victory, but a victory none the less.  

I honestly think it's a pretty sad commentary on the industry when considering making your lead character black is considered breaking new ground.  I also think it's ridiculous that a game like Fable won't let you pick your own skin color, or sex.

Last time I did that I got caught getting head in a music-intrsument store parking lot by a guy who looked a lot like Captain Lou.
-Penguinx
#16 by dookieagain
2004-09-28 15:29:20
jfd13@pitt.edu
Just curious, but how do they determine the "protagonist" in a game?  I mean I was employed in a video game store here in the streets of America and I can think of a lot of games, in fact a majority of the best selling games whose protagonists don't fit that mold at all, in particular games without protagonists.  What I recall selling best were the following,

1. GTA- Alright those have white male protagonists.
2. Dance Dance Revolution- Do these even have a protagonist? If they do it's a black man with a purple 'fro.
3. Madden/ESPN- Do these even have a protagonist?  
4. Gran Turisimo (and clones)- Unless the car is a white.
5. Tetris/Puzzlers- Unless the blocks represent white males. . .
6. The Sims- you create the protagonist!
7. Tony Hawk- you create the protagonist!
8. Myst (and clones)- It's first person or you create the protagonist!
9. MMORPGS- See above!
10. Halo- Well he's in a green biomechanical suit, but I suppose there's a chance he's a white male.

I think with the trend going toward customizability and open gameplay that protaganist is sort of a moot point. . .

#17 by ProStyle
2004-09-28 15:38:20
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
Conversely, my best friend during my teen years wanted nothing more than to play as a big black man in all video games, whenever possible. The motivation was probably just as racist, even if he didn't realize it at the time. I fondly remember laughing at his desires to always reinvent himself as a gigantic black man in the virtual sphere. Probably some deeper issues there, alas we shall never know.

I can understand marketing and trying to create a visual identity with your character. However, when considering the most historically popular ones are a stylized plumber and a blue 'hedgehog' you can be pretty damn sure none of this relates to concrete demographics whatsoever.

Fabricated like the word absurditive
#18 by Marsh Davies
2004-09-28 15:40:56
www.verbalchilli.com
Some of the arguments I've heard include <snip> "White people don't want to play black characters."


...

Why would... Who... Wh... Uh.


Incidentally, now I come to think of it, a good proportion of my avatars in MMORPGS have been racially indistinct. It's kind of an aesthetic choice, but not really one that is more important than the clothes I choose to wear.

Actually, I seem to remember a pretty vibrant mixture amongst fellow MMORPG players - a mixture that probably did not reflect their actual ethnicity. Do people here usually play as a character as similar to themselves as possible? What kind of choices do you make regarding race?

#19 by BobJustBob
2004-09-28 15:43:43
"White people don't want to play black characters."  Of course, I thought pretty much all of these were ridiculous, as would many people.


If you dare, read some of the comments on Blue's News posted about the GTA:SA trailer. Some people said precisely that, i.e. "I'm white and I don't want to play a black guy."

Just when you thought your opinion of humanity couldn't get any lower....

Dood.
#20 by Marsh Davies
2004-09-28 15:44:17
www.verbalchilli.com
I can understand marketing and trying to create a visual identity with your character. However, when considering the most historically popular ones are a stylized plumber and a blue 'hedgehog' you can be pretty damn sure none of this relates to concrete demographics whatsoever.


Heh. I played through the entirety of Super Mario Bros. 2 as the Princess, because her hovering ability kicked ass. I'd like to think my choice of character doesn't reflect on my personality, but my friends would probably tell you it does.

#21 by dookieagain
2004-09-28 15:44:17
jfd13@pitt.edu
Hmm, in my MMORPG experience, I usually played someone of unreal/impossible race, (bright blue hair, and horns ect.) however, I know several people who try to make avatars as similiar to them as they can, and others who take on races and genders that have nothing to do with them.  Such as a white gay male friend who enjoys playing asian women, and a young black woman friend who enjoys playing big arab men.

#22 by E-ph0nk
2004-09-28 15:48:58
http://www.electrophonk.be
I don't mind playing whatever character the game throws at me, as long as the game is good.

#23 by Dethstryk
2004-09-28 15:52:09
jemartin@tcainternet.com
For a while, I always tried to shape video game characters into a mold of myself as a form of escapism. Now I just take whatever role is handed to me, or I'll make a completely random character if I can.
#24 by Chunkstyle
2004-09-28 15:54:45
In third person games or mmogs I like female protagonists, so I can check out my own ass.

Game Developers: Don't forget the zombie monkeys.
#25 by Hugin
2004-09-28 15:56:58
lmccain@nber.org
I'm not really bothering to comment directly on Michael "Failing Fading Idiot" Savage.  


#5 by gaggle

 
 While Michael Savage sounds like an idiot, I'd welcome more diversity. But I think it's a result of the young age of games, there's simply not a lot of room for all manner of characters.


I don't really agree with this. I've ranted on this subject before, and I'm not really in the mood to get into a heated argument, but I think if you make a good game, gamers won't care what the protagonist looks like.

That's not that same as saying the protagonist doesn't matter.  I'm just saying, I don't think gamers will not play a game (assuming the game is good, gets good reviews, good word of mouth, and gets good marketing support, etc etc) because the character is "the wrong race" or "the wrong gender" or whatever.  

There are three different issues here I think.  

First is mere aesthetics.  Can a play I guy who looks brown?  Can I make him tall or short?  Can I play a woman?  For any "generic protagonist" game in this day and age, not giving the player these sorts of options strikes me as pure laziness.  Even if it doesn't affect the gameplay, I feel these are options bordering on as basic as the volume you prefer to hear the game music at or gamma correction.  And it annoys me to no end when people who already have what they want shrug and say "I don't care."  Duh, of course you don't care.  You have what you want.  You've always had what you want.  Go sit in the corner, secure in the knowledge that there will always always always be plenty of white male heroes for you to play.

Second issue is more about the "mascot" games.  I don't mean just Mario, I mean any game with a singularly designed character you play, like Max Payne, Duke Nukem, Bloodrayne, Devil May Cry, NOLF, etc.  Here, I assume the choices are a little harder.  I'd like to think that you could make a good game, slap a black woman in the cover, and have it sell as well as Max "Constipation" Payne.  But I'm probably wrong.  But surely there must be room for rather more than there has been so far.  Setting aside the question of stereotyping, basied on the assumption that almost all videogame characters are cariacatures anyway (Again "Max Payne"?  Sigh), surely there could be a few more AAA games featuring as the singular title hero (not just a sidekick) who isn't either A.  a white guy, or B.  a scantily clad white woman.  

Yes, we can all name exceptions, but come on, are we really going to seriously argue that the exceptions invalidate the basic premise?  These games are all about getting players excited about getting to embody, to some lesser or greater degree, a cool/pretty/smart/badass hero or anti-hero, and it gets kind of old, and even depressing when you take a half step back and ask "So...can these other types of people not be heroes?  Are they unheroic?  Can they never save the world?  Beat back the evil?  Get the girl (or heaven forfend, the guy)?  Be the king?"

The third issue is game setting.  Game setting, the game world, has a huge effect on the kind of people that appear within it.  Make fantasy #343,299 based on Celtic/Norse mythology set in "more or less medieval europe", and you've already made it hard to but non-white humans in the game.  Making the trolls or the elves or whatever crypto-black people or crypto-asians (in terms of weapons, costuming, fighting styles, speech patterns, etc) is just annoying.

So set a game in Africa or South America or Australia.  All those cultures have mythology and folktales and monsters and heroes and geography to draw from.  Of course, a game developer will read this and go "Oh, hey, yeah, a sort of Indiana Jones kind of thing.  King Solomon's Mines.  Some cool hero from Oxfor..."  BZZZT.  You've just sidekicked the entire setting.  The point isn't to just choose more exotic locales for the white hero to be a white hero in. How about an Asian hero in a game that isn't about kung fu?

Anyway.  Black power. Free Mumia.  No Roger No Rerun No Rent.  Etc.
#26 by Charles
2004-09-28 15:57:24
www.bluh.org
If you dare, read some of the comments on Blue's News posted about the GTA:SA trailer. Some people said precisely that, i.e. "I'm white and I don't want to play a black guy."


Oh, yes, I have no doubt that these people exist.  I just won't cry over the few copies we lose because of hard core racists.  Of course, this guy, like the rest, will buy the game and play it anyway because they are big talkers but aren't ever going to follow up, because all racists are inherently pussies.

Last time I did that I got caught getting head in a music-intrsument store parking lot by a guy who looked a lot like Captain Lou.
-Penguinx
#27 by Matt Perkins
2004-09-28 16:01:19
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I don't mind playing whatever character the game throws at me, as long as the game is good.


This is exactly right.  People are afraid of making games with non white lead characters...  But if they make a good game, it won't fucking matter.

I know when I play MMORPGs, I play all spectrums from black to white to ugly ugly dwarves (some would argue you can only have ugly dwarves).


So yes, I agree, Savage is a fucking retard.  Listen to his radio show sometime, it's amazing how much head up ass syndrom that guy can stuff into one show.  

And he still makes a good point, there is NOT enough diversity games.  It's plain and simple to see.  Why is that?  I don't know.  Maybe it's mostly white peeps making the games?  I have no idea on the numbers in terms of decision makers (and rest of you grunts, programmers, artists, etc) that are black, asian, or otherwise.

Should it be forced?  I don't think so...  I think the game industry is slowly coming around...  At least I hope it is.

"She told me to tell you to quit being such an anal-retentive pussy."- Ergo
#28 by BobJustBob
2004-09-28 16:02:12
I'd like to think that you could make a good game, slap a black woman in the cover, and have it sell as well as Max "Constipation" Payne.  But I'm probably wrong.


How well did Urban Chaos sell?

Dood.
#29 by Matt Perkins
2004-09-28 16:04:03
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I agree with #26 and I'd like to suggest we change post #27 to be exactly like Hugin's.

"She told me to tell you to quit being such an anal-retentive pussy."- Ergo
#30 by Marsh Davies
2004-09-28 16:05:26
www.verbalchilli.com
I'd love to play a fantasy/mythological game set in another culture. Really, deeply, love. Thing is, you'd get accused of appropriating other people's heritage if you did that.

#31 by Matt Perkins
2004-09-28 16:06:07
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I'd love to play a fantasy/mythological game set in another culture. Really, deeply, love. Thing is, you'd get accused of appropriating other people's heritage if you did that.

Bullshit.  See Good Game Theory™.

"She told me to tell you to quit being such an anal-retentive pussy."- Ergo
#32 by jafd
2004-09-28 16:06:34
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
Fun fact: the original jafd was an EverQuest character, an Erudite necromancer. For the two of you out there who haven't played that game, it means I was black with a huge cranium that I used to suck the life out of everything I could target. In reality, I'm Caucasian with a gigantic cranium and I bore the life out of everyone without a sense of humour.

I'm uncertain but I believe Shadow Man was the first game with a black protagonist. He's a black man... shadow man... get it?? Goodness, how could Acclaim possibly ever have gone out of business with cutting-edge stuff like that?

"If the right one won't get you, the left one will."
#33 by Marsh Davies
2004-09-28 16:12:12
www.verbalchilli.com
Bullshit.  See Good Game Theory™.


Sorry, didn't mean to piss on your toast there. What's bullshit about it? If I started penning stories based on African mythology, I'd be snarled at for mining a culture that wasn't my own for personal gain. I wouldn't say that's the correct attitude, because, personally, I think as long as your honest in your ambitions to create something of quality, then you can use anything as inspiration. I don't doubt that would happen though.

#34 by Matt Perkins
2004-09-28 16:14:31
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Sorry, didn't mean to piss on your toast there. What's bullshit about it? If I started penning stories based on African mythology, I'd be snarled at for mining a culture that wasn't my own for personal gain. I wouldn't say that's the correct attitude, because, personally, I think as long as your honest in your ambitions to create something of quality, then you can use anything as inspiration. I don't doubt that would happen though.

If we're talking games...  Make the game fun, and the peoples will play it.  No matter the mythology, the setting, the colors, etc.  Sure, it's not easy to make a fun game, but still.

And yes, you'll get people that say, you shouldn't be doing this or shouldn't be doing that.  But I'm sure you've already met people like that.  I'd offer a suggestion...  ignore them.

"She told me to tell you to quit being such an anal-retentive pussy."- Ergo
#35 by Hugin
2004-09-28 16:18:34
lmccain@nber.org
Marsh, I think the practical (if perhaps cynical)  answer there is to hire some genuine black/african folks for your team, and make sure the press knows they were integral parts of the development process. Heck, they might even actually be talented, valuable contributors, but that would just be a bonus with regard to the cultural appropriation issue.
#36 by Hugin
2004-09-28 16:19:32
lmccain@nber.org
Or just call Harvard or Stanford or something and pay some African studies professor to use his name as a consultant.
#37 by LPMiller
2004-09-28 16:19:56
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I would really like to get this thread back on topic re: garterbelts.

When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
#38 by Charles
2004-09-28 16:22:41
www.bluh.org
In MMOs, I'll either pick a character that closely resembles me if possible for the game choices I want, otherwise some kind of orc/troll/ogre.

Last time I did that I got caught getting head in a music-intrsument store parking lot by a guy who looked a lot like Captain Lou.
-Penguinx
#39 by G-Man
2004-09-28 16:24:59
#3 m0nty
Also, Savage says socialism is about "broken products" - what complete bullshit. Capitalism is about broken products, via the notion of inbuilt obsolescence. Capitalists want to sell you broken products because that means you'll buy more products, because that's their motivation. I'm not saying socialism is much better in practice, but he can't claim capitalism is superior.

That is ridiculous. Capitalism is about competition, and absent a cartel or monopoly, companies cannot afford to sell "broken" products for fear of losing market share. This is a long-standing myth about big companies which is related to the Anglo-Saxon tradition of hating what is perceived to be an unfair monopoly (whether it actually is one or not).

There may not be enough diversity in games, but there isn't much diversity in television or film either. Heck even books are pretty white oriented when you think about it (except for the newly popular street lit). So there are bigger issues to deal with. Second, there is no real mechanism for enforcement of diversity in gaming since there are no laws regulating the industry's content. There is no equivalent to the FCC, regulating the content of games. And really there is likely to ever be, simply because there is no advantage to it for any group.
#40 by Chunkstyle
2004-09-28 16:29:19
I don't think I would have worn a garter belt in high school, but now might give it a chance.

Game Developers: Don't forget the zombie monkeys.
#41 by Eyegore
2004-09-28 16:46:35
http://home.cfl.rr.com/eyegore/gallery.htm
Unreal II has a black man as the main character.  The first mate on his ship is a leather clad hot chick with lots of cleavage and exposed skin.  The engineer is kind of a redneck white guy, and the pilot is a childlike alien blob of goo in powered armor.
#42 by Marsh Davies
2004-09-28 16:51:55
www.verbalchilli.com
Hugin:
Heck, they might even actually be talented, valuable contributors, but that would just be a bonus with regard to the cultural appropriation issue.


I'm interested to know what you think about positive descrimination. (I don't know what to think, really. It's a bit of an ethical quagmire.)

#43 by Matt Perkins
2004-09-28 16:52:35
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
And the game sucked.

"She told me to tell you to quit being such an anal-retentive pussy."- Ergo
#44 by Hugin
2004-09-28 17:02:17
lmccain@nber.org
Marsh, I think that if you have the ability to hire people with a good work ethic and potential, who may not be as qualified out of the box but who can become the person you need given a little training and experience, you should try to do it.  I realize that's easier said than done for legal, economic, competitive etc reasons. But I don't think there's anything ethically wrong with it. And I think there's good potential later in terms of loyalty and diversity.
#45 by Penguinx
2004-09-28 17:15:30
I don't prefer playing as black or female characters. I'm not a racist and I'm not sexist.

I prefer to play as a white  character for the same reason that whenever I can create a character I make it look as close to myself as possible. I feel more immersed in the game the more my avatar looks like me. Simple as that.

Milk and Cheese agree, "UAC SUCKS!"
#46 by BobJustBob
2004-09-28 17:17:16
Immersion is another one of those words that means nothing to me. What, you forget you're holding a controller in your hands and staring at a TV, and instead imagine you're an unstoppable killing machine? I don't call that immersion; I call that insanity.

Dood.
#47 by jafd
2004-09-28 17:19:24
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
No, it's imagination. It's insanity if you put down the controller and pick up a weapon.

"If the right one won't get you, the left one will."
#48 by Dethstryk
2004-09-28 17:20:01
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Px and myself are just about the same age, so I think I understand the immersion factor of it. It's not insanity, it's me staying a kid.
#49 by Charles
2004-09-28 17:25:20
www.bluh.org
Immersion is another one of those words that means nothing to me. What, you forget you're holding a controller in your hands and staring at a TV, and instead imagine you're an unstoppable killing machine? I don't call that immersion; I call that insanity.


Actually, it's called suspension of disbelief, and it's a well known, well researched, and well documented subject.

Last time I did that I got caught getting head in a music-intrsument store parking lot by a guy who looked a lot like Captain Lou.
-Penguinx
#50 by jafd
2004-09-28 17:36:42
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
Except by the developers of CoD and MoH.

"If the right one won't get you, the left one will."
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