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IRC is your friend
September 20th 2004, 03:05 CEST by McBain

<McBain> I never once played BF1942 single player
<jafd> there is no singleplayer, it's just bots.
<McBain> jafd, allow me to let you in on a secret, when there is only one player, you are playing single player
<jafd> mcbain: when you're playing exactly the same game and the only difference is the intelligence or lack thereof of the other entities, it's just "playing."
<McBain> wrong
<jafd> If by "wrong" you mean "right," then, I agree.
<McBain> the qualifier of multi and single refers to the number of human players
<jafd> No, in fact, it does not.
<McBain> otherwise, every game with AI controlled entities is multiplayer
<jafd> Not necessarily.
<McBain> ok whatever, what does multi and single refer to then?
<McBain> this should be good
<jafd> If you have an AI doing things in the background to give one person a uniquely centered experience, sure, that's obviously "single player"
<jafd> but in the case of bot games, you have numerous players. Some of them just happen to be robots.
<jafd> Imagine you're playing UT on a server with 7 bots, and a real person connects.
<McBain> ah... give "one person" and centered experience
<McBain> EOD
<jafd> Let's further imagine that you don't even notice, they stay on one side of the map for five minutes, you never interact directly with them
<jafd> then they leave
<jafd> you're going to tell me you went from "single" to "multi" and back again?
<McBain> yes, as a matter of fact you did go from single player to multi player and back
<jafd> Even if you didn't notice?
<jafd> I totally call bullshit.
<McBain> there was 1 player, then more than 1, then 1 again
<jafd> The robots are other players.
<jafd> You're just soft on humans. You don't think robots count.
<jafd> One day, they will.
<McBain> that you didn't notice is totally fucking irrelevant
<jafd> That's my point!
<jafd> If the people playing don't notice, what difference does it make?
<McBain> because the whole definition of single player is a SINGLE FUCKING PLAYER
<m0nty> now the truth comes out, jafd is not an alien, but a BOT
<jafd> But if it were truly "single player", you wouldn't have anyone to shoot.
<m0nty> OMG ROBOT CONSPIRACY
* jafd *whirr*/me *clank*
<McBain> wtf jafd, you just shoot at non players
<jafd> oh noes syntax error I am melting
<McBain> really this isn't hard
<jafd> If they aren't players, why are you shooting at them?
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Home » Topic: IRC is your friend

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#1 by lwf
2004-09-20 03:06:09
Jesus fucking christ. I quit.

Nothing I do is my fault.
#2 by Dan
2004-09-20 03:08:01
dan@froglord.com
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
#3 by m0nty
2004-09-20 03:13:41
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Worst. Topic. Ever.
#4 by m0nty
2004-09-20 03:14:58
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
BTW, I told McBain he should have asked jafd before posting this #planetcrap log, but neither he nor jafd really cared about the netiquette.
#5 by Charles
2004-09-20 03:23:01
www.bluh.org
Good job McBain, posting IRC logs to the crap is bad mojo.

"I'm not asking for much; just a job that meets the minimum legal requirements set forth by my country."
#6 by Charles
2004-09-20 03:23:40
www.bluh.org
also:  jafd: right, mcbain: wrong.

"I'm not asking for much; just a job that meets the minimum legal requirements set forth by my country."
#7 by ProStyle
2004-09-20 03:40:19
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
Not really much of a discussion to be had.
also:  jafd: right, mcbain: wrong.
Indeed.

Fabricated like the word absurditive
#8 by LPMiller
2004-09-20 03:46:10
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
The. Fuck.

When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
#9 by BobJustBob
2004-09-20 03:47:58
jafd is so fucking stupid and wrong, and thus by extension so is Charles.

Dood.
#10 by LPMiller
2004-09-20 03:49:16
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
But you add McBain to that little melting pot, and your pretty much overcooking your Retard Stew.

When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
#11 by G-Man
2004-09-20 03:50:21
I think McBain is right. Rise of Nations singleplayer is just multiplayer with bots. In fact almost all RTS singleplayer is just multiplayer with bots, unless you count the inclusion of fancy cutscenes ala Blizzard RTS games to be the difference between singleplayer and mere botmatches. The raw game mechanics are absolutely the same. Shooters in contrast, often offer highly different multiplayer and singleplayer gameplay experiences.
#12 by Your Friend
2004-09-20 03:55:43
I have to admit, I agree with jafd's view.

BF1942, Q3, etc, are multiplayer only games.

The fact that you can multiplay with bots doesn't make them singleplayer games.

But this is a stupid discussion topic in general, because the distinction is very subjective.

#13 by mnemonic
2004-09-20 03:58:13
xmnemonic@softhome.net http://jti.developer.graphyx.net
this is stupid.  who cares what artificial label is used?  that does not change what the gameplay is.  "a rose by any other name blah blah."

obviously, each person has his own conception of what "singleplayer" and "multiplayer" mean, and those shades of meaning are so personally rooted that arguing for or against one is like arguing whether blue is a nicer color than yellow.
#14 by BobJustBob
2004-09-20 04:05:08
'Single player' means there is exactly one human player. It's not subjective; that's what it means. You could disagree, but you'd be stupid.

Dood.
#15 by m0nty
2004-09-20 04:06:18
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
This is not a case of right or wrong. It is yet another manifestation of my Global Theory of Geopolitics, viz: Evil Versus Evil. It is quite possible, indeed probable, that both sides of the arugment are wrong.
#16 by Jibble
2004-09-20 04:23:07
I agree with McBain.  If you open BF, you can play "Single Player" or "Multiplayer".  That there are bots in there does not make it multiplayer, otherwise every single game ever made is multiplayer.

убийство!
#17 by Max
2004-09-20 04:29:23
http://massivebraincase.org/
I agree with m0nty.  You're all loons.

Michelangelo should move to Brazil and sculpt asses like that out of existing asses. - Shadarr
Check your FSI!
#18 by Dumdeedum
2004-09-20 04:44:18
http://www.dumdeedum.com
I'm not sure which side I take.  My copy of Hoyle's Games has an introduction saying something like "no matter what the game, the same rules apply to each player", with bots the same rules apply to you and them, so theoretically they could be considered players.  In a single player game the computer gets it's own rules so it's not playing the game, it is the game.

But then, computers ain't people... maybe we should split it into three categories: single player, multi-player and multi-person?

'Sup playaz.

MP3 Of The Week: Terrorvision - Tequila.mp3 (?)
#19 by lwf
2004-09-20 05:03:15
I don't think chess is ever single-player. Even when it's you again deep blue.

Nothing I do is my fault.
#20 by UncleJeet
2004-09-20 05:07:47
Burnout 3 has single player races, which involve the time honored tradition of the AI cheating its fucking head off whenever you get too far ahead of the cars behind you.

Ok, maybe they all have a flux capacitor or something and I'm just not aware of it.

no, No, NO!
#21 by yotsuya
2004-09-20 05:09:16
Who the fuck invited McBain to this party initially? Let me know, so I can kick you.

All is right with the world, as long as you're gettin' some.
 -LittleWood
I wear my sunglasses at night.
#22 by Shadarr
2004-09-20 05:24:10
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
How the hell did this train wreck of idiot-egos get voted in?  Not only is just McBain trying to escalate an argument he's already lost, it's got the whole damn thing on the front page.  Fuck you.

"The standard is pretty low as far as net comics go." - jjohnsen
#23 by lwf
2004-09-20 05:28:30
Don't blame me, I voted for NO.

Nothing I do is my fault.
#24 by LPMiller
2004-09-20 05:58:15
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Well I voted for Kang.

When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
#25 by Dethstryk
2004-09-20 06:12:09
jemartin@tcainternet.com
I get back in town to this stupid topic? Awesome.
#26 by Post-It
2004-09-20 06:23:54
keithlee@speakeasy.net
I voted YES YES YES. jafd hasn't been getting enough love lately.

Comment Signature
#27 by Max
2004-09-20 06:24:04
http://massivebraincase.org/
You're all stupid.

I say that only as an excuse to test my new sig.

Yours Faithfully,
Dr Hamidu Dicko
MANAGER AUDITING AND ACCOUNTING DEPARTMENT
BANK OF AFRICA.
#28 by m0nty
2004-09-20 06:30:54
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
You may have to redefine love, Post-It.
#29 by jafd
2004-09-20 07:08:41
I am unmoved.

"We're all Fate's bitch. You might as well go ahead and bend over for Destiny now."
#30 by Max
2004-09-20 07:40:37
http://massivebraincase.org/
Go away!  You don't post here anymore!

Yours Faithfully,
Dr Hamidu Dicko
MANAGER AUDITING AND ACCOUNTING DEPARTMENT
BANK OF AFRICA.
#31 by jafd
2004-09-20 07:50:33
You're right, I don't.

"We're all Fate's bitch. You might as well go ahead and bend over for Destiny now."
#32 by McBain
2004-09-20 08:33:06
There are either guidelines for topics or there aren't.

Oh yeah, it's whatever gets voted in.

Its always funny how people react to topics, when they so obviously don't matter past the first 50-100 posts.  I suppose bitching is better than "F1RST!!!11"

www.dailyhowler.com is the single most important website that Americans should read every day.
"The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had."
#33 by yotsuya
2004-09-20 08:35:49
Use the system right, asshole. If you want to post your IRC logs, at least have the decency to summarize in the intro box, and list your conversations from IRC in the topic box. Understand?

All is right with the world, as long as you're gettin' some.
 -LittleWood
I wear my sunglasses at night.
#34 by McBain
2004-09-20 08:39:31
Yot, when you put it like that it will never happen.

www.dailyhowler.com is the single most important website that Americans should read every day.
"The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had."
#35 by yotsuya
2004-09-20 08:46:03
And he pouts again.

All is right with the world, as long as you're gettin' some.
 -LittleWood
I wear my sunglasses at night.
#36 by McBain
2004-09-20 08:57:05
Tomorrow on the Onion: Pot derides Kettle as "too black".

www.dailyhowler.com is the single most important website that Americans should read every day.
"The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had."
#37 by lwf
2004-09-20 08:58:56
Trying to make the "Kettle/Pot" joke new is so fucking tired.

Nothing I do is my fault.
#38 by yotsuya
2004-09-20 09:00:23
First of all, fuck you.

Second, it's common courtesy that if you're going to post something that long, you do it the right way. I think we expect that much out of our non-trolls.

All is right with the world, as long as you're gettin' some.
 -LittleWood
I wear my sunglasses at night.
#39 by lwf
2004-09-20 09:02:10
Your scroll-finger could use the exercise, you fat bastard!

(This topic is annoying for that reason, though, really. It's kind of an interesting argument, and it hasn't been around for at least a few months now.)

Nothing I do is my fault.
#40 by yotsuya
2004-09-20 09:03:11
My scroll finger gets enough exercise around here, thank you. It doesn't need fucking McBain's help.

All is right with the world, as long as you're gettin' some.
 -LittleWood
I wear my sunglasses at night.
#41 by deadlock
2004-09-20 09:03:26
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Please note: I have postponed my return to PlanetCrap on account of:

You gutys still suck.

Thank you for your time.

#42 by yotsuya
2004-09-20 09:04:30
Gutys?

All is right with the world, as long as you're gettin' some.
 -LittleWood
I wear my sunglasses at night.
#43 by lwf
2004-09-20 09:05:02
We'll be back in top form next month, deadlock. Training camp was a real bitch this year.

Nothing I do is my fault.
#44 by deadlock
2004-09-20 09:05:17
http://www.deadlocked.org/
I still suck as well, what can I tell ya?

#45 by yotsuya
2004-09-20 09:05:41
Welcome back.

All is right with the world, as long as you're gettin' some.
 -LittleWood
I wear my sunglasses at night.
#46 by jafd
2004-09-20 09:06:59
I miss Andy so much.

"We're all Fate's bitch. You might as well go ahead and bend over for Destiny now."
#47 by deadlock
2004-09-20 09:07:02
http://www.deadlocked.org/
I'm not back!! That was just a short message to tell you that I won't be back for another while!

#48 by jafd
2004-09-20 09:07:14
You left?

"We're all Fate's bitch. You might as well go ahead and bend over for Destiny now."
#49 by deadlock
2004-09-20 09:08:03
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Tell you what - I'll call off the postponement if you make me feel really wanted...

#50 by deadlock
2004-09-20 09:10:11
http://www.deadlocked.org/
jafd:

Yeah, I forgot to mention it though. Actually, it would be more accurate to say that I got a job that actually involves having stuff to do; hence constantly refreshing PC was no longer a viable career option.

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