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ASUS cards: Now with 'cheat' button!
July 19th 2000, 22:10 CEST by Istari

Today Riva Station reported that ASUS plans to add a special set of features to their next driver releases for the AGP-V7700 and AGP-V7100 series graphics cards. The technology called 3D SeeThrough [TM] would allow players to cheat by making walls invisible among other things.

Here is a quote from the press release:
"Taiwan, Taipei July 18, 2000: ASUSTeK Computer, Inc. announces its new secrete (sic!) weapon for AGP-V7700 and AGP-V7100 series graphics cards the 3D SeeThrough TM technologies. "ASUS always provides the best value for our customers." said Jonathan Tsang, vice president of marketing and sales division of ASUSTeK Computer Inc. "The ASUS 3D SeeThrough TM technologies are developed for users to be a constant winner in the adventure or action 3D games. There are three special weapons for ASUS VGA cards’ users Transparent View, Wireframe View, and Extra Light. If you do not have an ASUS VGA card be careful! Never compete in the 3D games with anyone who has an ASUS VGA card. Because the only result is to loose (sic!)."

According to Riva Station the source of the press release is ASUS Germany. RS also claims to have a pre-release version of the drivers and have posted screenshots of Voyager:Elite Force demonstrating the new features. The press release does not yet appear any on any ASUS website and ASUS Germany has not yet answered requests for verification, so treat this with some scepticism.

A while ago Wicked announced similar features but quickly retreated after the reception among gamers was less than enthusiastic.

So assuming ASUS proceed as planned, could this mean the end of online gaming as we know it? Or is it just another way to cheat among thousands of others?

Update: According to Riva 3D ASUS has confirmed that they "have been exploring" transparency features and that the decision to release them has not yet been made. They also said that:

"ASUS may pursue working with developers to ensure that this feature is detectable so that online tournaments, etc., are not affected in any way."

The interesting part is that this totally contradicts the press release that Riva Station got, in which they specifically advertised this as way to win online games.

Home » Topic: ASUS cards: Now with 'cheat' button!

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#31 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-07-20 00:21:36 can't just flag models "no see through" or something.  What the card will probably do is disable the Z-buffer in certain situations so you get some weird looking frame where the monsters that would normally be Z-buffered out are drawn on top (probably along with a bunch of other crap).

The Unreal Tournament engine still uses a span based occlusion method, so any actor that is 100% occcluded by geometry won't even be sent to the hardware to be drawn.  Clients could probably cheat the Z-Buffer manually now, but it doesn't help much because most of the actors are being culled and never drawn at all.

I see this as a pretty short lived feature...  when triangles get to the hardware there isn't anything that says "this is a character poly" or "this is a wall poly."  Its just a mass of data, usually sorted by texture and state (or in the case of Unreal...just a mass of data   hehe).  Most players will probably take these cards home, turn on "See through walls" and realize what they get is a funky looking improperly depth sorted frame.  Woo hoo.
#32 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-07-20 00:31:45

Really? What if it simply makes a specific texture translucent (like the recent see-through-walls half-life cheats and the old QuakeWorld map hacks) in the T&L portion of the nVidia hardware on the card?

Visibility calculations aren't done on the card, they are done before the geometry hits the card...  I don't see how this would be anything more than a Z-buffer workaround that would, again, generally only draw actors or entities that were already partially visible.  It might be somewhat effective on game engines with more liberal visibility algorithms, but I can't think of any.  It would also look better than just turning the Z-buffer off.

I don't know alot about the Quake 3 engine, but I doubt it has that much overdraw.  I believe hanging vis data off of the bsp is just as aggressive as span buffering...its just done before hand instead of on the fly (and therefore much more CPU friendly).
#33 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-07-20 00:38:11
3D graphics is not my area of interest, but I did some research and it seems that hanging vis data off of the bsp would give you a bit more overdraw than span-buffering at the advantage of less of a CPU hit.  So with a Quake engine game you might be able to see a character behind a wall.
#34 by "dukope"
2000-07-20 00:38:57

you don't need sophisticated "should this poly be clear" logic to make this cheat dangerous. just forcing every poly to be partly transparent is enough..

see here:

this may not be a big deal with unreal's span-rendering, but think about the future and T&L.. the card could conceivably have the entire level in memory, and a driver could easily make all polys half clear..

even with q3a tech, which pre-culls players as part of network optimizations, it's still an effective cheat.
#35 by "Whisp"
2000-07-20 00:42:35
Uh, Brandon, you might want to actually look at the screnshots before dismissing this.  It sounds like you have some valid points about what gets rendered (makes sense to me anyway), but it doesn't look like its just screwing with the z-buffer.  When they say see-through walls, they mean it.  The walls are still visible, just transparent, kind of like colored glass.  Here's a link to one of the shots.
<a href="">click me</a>

#36 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-07-20 00:42:51
I would still rather have vis-data than span buffering any day.  The CPU drain from spans is fairly significant.  This isn't a slight against the Unreal engine though...the only reason Tim still has spans is a holdover from the software engine days, where you could use your spans that resulted from visibility tests in rasterization.  Now that most developers are disabling or ignoring the Unreal engine software renderer, spans are a hindrance.
#37 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-07-20 00:44:13
Post <b>#19</b> by Dethstryk:
I'm sure there is a way. You can fight other cheats, why not this one?

There's always a way... Release a patch for the game which would detect the video card make, and prohibit the game from running, completely, if it's an ASUS one. So there, go cheat your ass off editing MineSweeper ini file ;)

Btw, I'll give them credit where it's due, ASUS makes high quality motherboards (using one myself with much success). Maybe they should not try to put themselves on video card market with the cheap tricks like this one, instead concentrate on motherboards :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#38 by "brennan"
2000-07-20 00:45:09
Wouldn't this be impossible with tile-based rendering?  I can't recall the name of the soon-to-be-released card that uses this, but I hear that many people are seriously looking at tile-based rendering because of the memory bandwidth savings.

Moot point with the current situation, but oh well.  But hey, maybe in the future this particular exploit would be impossible?

#39 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-07-20 00:46:01
Dukope -

Yes, that's what I mean about vis versus spans.  It would not be a very effective cheat in Unreal.  I just see it as a tradeoff either way...
#40 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-20 00:50:04
tum te tum


Counter Strike, see thru walls hack is doing very nicely still thank you very much.

so if the players arent drawn because the geometry says the cant be seen ....

and yet these cheats can see and hit you ..

makes you think that the players position IS visible thru the wall......

#41 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-07-20 00:50:31
Brennan -

A tile based device still has a driver layer that deals with polygons.  A Direct 3D driver supplied by the hardware vendor could still have code to tag certain polys as translucent before rasterization.
#42 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-07-20 00:51:23
Darkseid -

Yes and Counter Strike is vis data based.  It draws all the characters visible from a certain BSP leaf.
#43 by "Bad_CRC"
2000-07-20 00:51:39
hell, in half the UT or Q3 games, if the server is a bit lagged,  the enemies right in front of you will disappear...  then reappear out of nowhere.   Especially if you are coming around a corner or something.    works with doors too.

#44 by "Smacky The Frog"
2000-07-20 00:52:48
Well, I really don't know anything about rendering or game engines or the like, however the way counter strike works for half-life (one can shoot through most walls) then my guess would be that this new "feature" of the asus cards would render the players on the other side of "shoot-throughable" walls. Wow that would really ruin counter strike! :(
#45 by "fyrewolf"
2000-07-20 00:57:46
<quote>Well, I really don't know anything about rendering or game engines or the like, however the way counter strike works for half-life (one can shoot through most walls) then my guess would be that this new "feature" of the asus cards would render the players on the other side of "shoot-throughable" walls. Wow that would really ruin counter strike! :( </quote>

The client doesn't have to know there's a player on the other site of a wall in order to be able to shoot it.  The server decides whether the player is hit.

#46 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-07-20 01:01:19
Anyway, 3D graphics are not my area.  I really need to learn more, but I've always been more interested in gameplay.
#47 by "Valeyard"
2000-07-20 01:13:12
Cheating always has and always will just seems particularly rampant these days.  We have computer games being played on a professional level for cash prizes, and this topic has and will come up all the time.

I've been absolutely astonished at the ammount of cheating that goes on in the CS community.  Custom "spiked" models, glow in the dark skins and the ghost-recon were always a problem.  Now that Valve made the incredibly BAD decision to move more code to the client side of the game, we've got cheats that prevent the weapons from kicking...keeping the bullets on target all the time.  Not to mention the vastly inferior network performance.

It's absolutely sickening, especially in a game I'm good at and love to play.

Where we once saw "GG CK3", we're now seeing "GG Valve", "GG Netcode" or "GG cheaters".  The accusations are almost as bad as the activity.  Your clan loses?  No problem, they MUST be cheating...they couldn't possibly be better than you.  Just knowing the cheats are out there is killing the sportsmanship and feel of the game.

At one time, I was PROUD when people accused me of cheating.  Knowing that I never have or will cheat, I felt honored that my level of play was SO FAR beyond their comprehension that they felt I had to be cheating.  Now it's just annoying and depressing.

Our clan has played (and won) more official matches than any other.  It's very likely that some of the victories were over clans that were cheating and STILL couldn't get the job done.  It's also possible that a loss or two could have been due to cheating.  That was comforting for a while...but when clans you've known for a long time, clans you've been friendly and open with start suspecting you of cheating...things are looking bad.

We will continue to play, in spite of the problems, because we love this game.  We are actively working with leagues to setup and inforce rules that prohibit all forms of cheating.  Some "undectable" cheats will still get through, but some of those aren't as hard to detect as the offender may think.

Some leagues are now requiring that a league admin be present to spectate the match.  Now all we need is a good spectator mode in CS. *hint hint* :)

 (for the curious -  RITD West champions and the best record in the game)  :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "Valeyard"
2000-07-20 01:14:02
Sorry for the CS-specific post...but that's my specialty. :)

#49 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-20 01:24:43
I get it all the time :\

I learnt to rapid fire the pistols .... usually I can take 5+ kills in the first round...

so I must be cheating .. or have +attack bound to my mouse wheel. Nah, I just learnt how to hold my mouse so the rabid clicking pulls my aim down vs the kick of the gun.

Ive seen so many cheats its not funny, on DE_AZTEC one CT would sit on their side of the rope bridge inside and behind a wall and snipe any T's who came into his 'sights'. I pissed him (a german .. fancy that) off royally by perching on the rope in front of him for several rounds ... he got no kills .. and since I explained what I was doing .... the T's didnt shoot me :) (good sports!!!)

Ive seen people snipe perfect headshots across the map with a desert eagle, one shot one kill ... on targets I cant see... Ive seen people snipe from behind crates ...

I modded beta 6 with the awp laser and warnings on flashbangs (blue flashes round it) .... this was mild cheating .... the flashbangs more to warn me of what idiot team mates were doing.... the laser ... well it gave away wall hack users/ spiked model users something awful.  Now, I dont cheat, dont need to, and I along with my clan regularly rock servers..

cheating doesnt make bad players good, it just lets them get kills, good players will still mangle them in a straight up fight. Its when you get decent or good players cheating ..... well youre with my chain of thought Im sure. ... looks like theyve cracked auto head shotting and now have a proxy able to run all kinds of cheats and still fool the CRC check.....


#50 by "[KAG]formerly known as Seth"
2000-07-20 01:33:04
anyone seen cheats for UT yet??

P.S.: any clans allowing cheating by their members should be banned by all other clans(neutral observer???) It's no fun playing against cheaters even if (and especially when) you beat'em up good. Cheaters are the lousiest players ever, and people making cheats for online play are even worse. All I invested in my gameplay was an Everglide mousepad and a nice optical mouse, that's it. The day I need more, well, I might as well stop playing.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#51 by ""
2000-07-20 01:33:26
Valeyard, cheating is rampant, or rather the accusations, in almost every game. You can no longer join a server and whip ass. All you get is "dude, turn the bot off", "get a life cheater" blah blah blah. I have been deathmatching since Doom 1 days and honestly, playing online is no longer worth the headache. And now this just compounds it.

Coupled with the fact I do have one of those Asus cards, it's a Bad Day(tm).

#52 by "McGrew"
2000-07-20 01:56:53
There is another angle to this, go see Nacho's take on it.

It's sad, but the order of popularity of the pages in my site are:

1: Quake cheats (SP only, but they don't know that when they're at Google)
2: Console commands
3: server commands
which usually ties with
4: The 'nooze'.

/.'s AC said it in post 51- the worst thing about cheaters is if you don't suck at a game, you MUST be using a bot or a hack. Bleh.

#53 by "Apache"
2000-07-20 02:36:05
easy fix to this -- if a user have an asus card, don't let them on the server. patch your game to check the registry for the drivers, then give them a nasty error when they attempt to play ;)
#54 by "Bort"
2000-07-20 03:07:56
What sickens me even more than this being cheating is that its a big marketting scam from Asus to try to sell more of their video cards... makes me want to puke just thinking about it.   I mean, just read the press release, and it sounds like a sales pitch. The fact that a company will sink this low to sell their product is so wretched it makes me want to hurl...

On the plus side, people will / are allready registering their disgust no doubt with Asus, so I for one doubt the driver will even be released... so if you haven't sent them any emails, go ahead.. have at it.

Cheating has been around for a loong looooonnng time, people have gone so far as to track people down.. and beat them up in real life. (I remember such incidents with QWTF (back in the day). So, if you know the guy that came up with this idea, give him a proper ass-beating for me.. please.
#55 by "Bad_CRC"
2000-07-20 04:30:05
Looks like G-Man called it.  This is smelling more and more like a hoax.
<a href="">0</a>

<a href="">1</a>
<a href="">2</a>

<a href="">3</a>
#56 by "Bad_CRC"
2000-07-20 04:31:26
oh, forgot to mention I made those shots in the Star Trek game with my Voodoo 3...

<b>dumb·ass</b> <i>(Düm-èSS)</i> n. - Anyone who doesn't agree with me.
<a href=""></a><I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#57 by "Whisp"
2000-07-20 05:11:20
That's cool.  Now how about the transparent ones? Can you do that?

#58 by "G-Man"
2000-07-20 07:32:29
<b>#57</b> "Whisp" wrote...
<QUOTE>That's cool. Now how about the transparent ones? Can you do that?</QUOTE>
I'm sure it isn't hard. Q3 has a LOT of strange cvars to play with.

At any rate, like I said I'm all for these new drivers if they do exist. I do not think they will have the effect on cheating that you think they will.

 - []<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#59 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-07-20 09:33:17
<b>#33</b> "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart" wrote...
<QUOTE>. So with a Quake engine game you might be able to see a character behind a
wall. </QUOTE>

Interestingly enough, given that a character is relatively close to a wall (a thin wall) under certain situations with certain cards you can see them anyway in most Quake/Q2-engine based games (especially in Quake itself and in Half-life), then there's the transparent wall hacks and the video settings that allow you to see things you're not supposed to.

I agree, though, that it all depends on how much overdraw there is in the game engine. However, something else to note is that many of the Quake-engine based games (if not all of them) have client side toggles for rendering of objects that aren't visible, and I'm not sure how much of an effect enabling that would have (other than what would end up being a huge framerate hit on some maps). It's sortof like people arguing that making the water clear in glquake wouldn't let you see people that were in the water because the game didn't register them as visible, yet you could still do it and see the players, the water just looked like shit.

#60 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-07-20 09:39:33
<b>#37</b> "PiRaMidA" wrote...
<QUOTE>Btw, I'll give them credit where it's due, ASUS makes high quality motherboards
(using one myself with much success). Maybe they should not try to put
themselves on video card market with the cheap tricks like this one, instead
concentrate on motherboards :)</QUOTE>

IMO, their video cards are better than their motherboards, and I do have one of their motherboards that's been serving me quite nicely for about 3 years on my P2-400 box. I had one of their GeForce SDR cards, and it was very close to being the best card I've ever bought, with this new 64MB GeForce 2 card from hercules being the best so far (though ASUS can make some great drivers, they're usually pretty far behind on the versions. Hercules/Guillemot, on the other hand, apparently can't even make a semi-functional driver to ship with their cards, but it works great with the nVidia drivers).

#61 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-07-20 09:58:00
Well, with Q3A, and some of the other earlier Quake-engine games, you can see just how much is rendered by turning on r_showtris, or r_drawnormals(?) in Q3 - it might surprise you.
Also, there's nothing to stop anyone disabling the vis information (r_novis?), so that, given a sufficiently powerful machine, you could see the entire level at once, and still get a good framerate.
Sucks, don't it?
#62 by "G'Kar"
2000-07-20 12:05:50
In general, it's impossible to prevent client side visibility cheats. You can try to make it more <I>difficult</I> to cheat, but ultimately, all client side data is susceptible to cheating.

Consider the imaginary case of a very dedicated and skilled cheater. Such a person could re-write the game to draw scenes how <I>they</I> want them drawn (i.e. full bright, with translucent walls). The only way to prevent this kind of cheating is to have the server render each client's frame and send it to them, which is somewhat unfeasible (unless your server is an Onyx2, connected to clients via an FDDI network).

What this basically means is, any sufficiently dedicated hacker can make hiding in shadows pointless.

Player occlusion, however, is something that can be handled server side. The server would have to calculate detailed vis information for each client and only send information on players that are in the clients field of vision. Obviously, these vis calculations can be as accurate as you want (at the expense of greater server side CPU
utilization). If the vis calculations are sufficiently accurate, then anyone using transparent wall cheats would succeed in seeing an apparently empty level (assuming all the players are entirely occluded from view).

I don't know what level -if any- of vis calculations are done server side in any existing games (UT or Q3).

Ignie Ferroque,
#63 by ""
2000-07-20 13:34:59
Applying this to online gaming isn't a factor. Online gamers are a small majority.

I'm sure some of the other 96% of gamers would find cheats like this useful or cool.

But of course, the loud minority will probably get the cheats removed.

(Naturally, I'm against it for online reasons, just being realistic)
#64 by "[KAG]formerly known as Seth"
2000-07-20 13:44:57
<b>#63</b> "" wrote...
<QUOTE>I'm sure some of the other 96% of gamers would find cheats like this useful or cool.

Come on, who needs those cheats? If you can't beat a game on yourself(or with the build-in cheats), you're a lamer and shouldn't play anything else than pacman(although pacman isn't an easy game at all)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#65 by "dave lister"
2000-07-20 13:51:13
<quote><a href="">whisp says in #35: click</a></quote>

Message when going to rivastation from pc: <quote>You are coming from:


                                         This site is not authorized to use any content from our server!</quote>

i don't think andy will get a pleasant or informative response from them
#66 by "[KAG]formerly known as Seth"
2000-07-20 13:51:25
I just saw the following on
<a href="
I just got off the phone with ASUS, during which we discussed the issues surrounding the possible release of new drivers that incorporate their new "Transparency Feature". We discussed many aspects of the drivers, including the feedback they've been getting. Here's the jist of things as they stand:

1. The Transparency Drivers are a feature that ASUS has been exploring.
2. ASUS does not intend these drivers to enable cheating in games, but to take advantage of new technology and show the capabilities of the technology.
3. If the drivers are released (and that's not a definite thing yet), ASUS may pursue working with developers to ensure that this feature is detectable so that online tournaments, etc., are not affected in any way.
4. ASUS listens to the feedback, and takes your feelings seriously when considering features for their products. After all, they ARE in the business to succeed... ;)
#67 by "dave lister"
2000-07-20 13:54:57
just realised it was asus that andy approached for comment.
#68 by "[KAG]formerly known as Seth"
2000-07-20 13:58:19
<b>#67</b> "dave lister" wrote...

just realised it was asus that andy approached for comment. </QUOTE>
just realized that it wasnt' andy that didn't approach asus for comment  ;)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#69 by "Mankovic"
2000-07-20 15:07:28 http://
Valeyard wrote, <quote>Some leagues are now requiring that a league admin be present to spectate the match.</quote>

Due to the prevalence of Aiming proxies and the transparent wall hacks where Q2 is concerned, this has been a requirement of many Clan leagues for quite some time now. The Jailbreak community was the first to adopt this practice well over a year ago where 2 admins( or referees as we called them) were required to be present for any OGL sanctioned match(one for each team). They were responsible for enforcing rules agreed to by both Clans prior to the match, as well as making demos and <i>chasing</i> players who were suspected of any wrongdoing. Smiles was our OGL rep and supported our efforts wholeheartedly.

Some of the more common cheats being used in Q2,
a)Transparent walls map hack.
b)Autoaiming devices
c)Radar proxies(shows locations of players and ID's those on opposite teams)
d)GL_Modulate hack(affects Mods such as Gloom where map lighting is crucial) was fixed in later .dll releases.
e)Grapple Hook cheat.

there are probably others that I've failed to mention, and some that I've intentionally left out.
#70 by "godZero"
2000-07-20 15:07:59
Bah, they should release these drivers. It won't make any difference. If the cheater doesn't play better than I do without cheats, he won't be able to win with cheats either. I'll still kick his stupid ass.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#71 by "dukope"
2000-07-20 15:36:32

there's two problems with rampant cheating:
1. people who cheat do better
2. people who don't cheat, but do well, are accused of cheating.

if you're not worried about #1, you should at least be worried about #2.. if you're not, then it hasn't happened to you yet.. all the pride of being good at a game is instantly revoked when someone accuses you of cheating.
#72 by "Istari"
2000-07-20 15:52:55
Just to get it straight:
Both ASUS and Riva Station were contacted. Riva Station's answer was both pleasant and informative. I also don't have any problems accessing RS from PC.
ASUS didn't answer at all, but they have confirmed to other sites that they were planning to release such a driver. Note the word "were". They're not so sure anymore...
See for details.

Oh yeah: I'm not Andy.

#73 by "dukope"
2000-07-20 16:01:48
and fwiw:

an older post from zoid about a clear-polys exploit in quakeworld.. it seems likely that we'll soon see a general opengl proxy to allow this cheat on any card; now that asus has "brought it to attention".
#74 by "Andy"
2000-07-20 16:12:16
Don't worry, it's not just Links from external sites to content pages are blocked. Click the link on <a href="">this page</a> (on my ISP web space) and you'll get the same "not authorised" message.
#75 by "Borsti"
2000-07-20 16:25:04
Hi there,

Sorry for this. It´s my stupid screenshot CGI that blocks those links... I have to tell it which URL´s are OK and which not. I´t has nothing to do with active blocking or whatever..

I see if I can hack it a bit to prevent it...

Borsti - RIVA Station
#76 by "Andy"
2000-07-20 16:26:37
...and you'll notice that the <a href="">screenshot link</a> now works. Thanks Borsti!
#77 by "Borsti"
2000-07-20 16:34:25

it should work now!

# if (! $match) {
#   print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
#   print "\n";
#   print "\n";
#   print "You are coming from:<b>$referer</b>\n";
#   print "This site is not authorized to use any content from our server!\n";
#   &log_error;
# }


#78 by "szcx"
2000-07-20 18:05:58
<QUOTE>#include disclaimer.h</QUOTE>

error C2006: #include expected a filename, found 'identifier'
#79 by ""
2000-07-20 18:15:22
[KAG]formerlyetc, etc ;)
<QUOTE>anyone seen cheats for UT yet??</QUOTE>

There is currently only the "skin cheat", where people are using skins from a different model on their playermodel. (eg).  FemaleCommando skins on MaleSoldier.

This is supposed to be fixed by the upcoming patch, so its just a matter of 'wait&see'.  Hopefully it is, as this cheat is starting to be used quite widespread, and has ruined alot of multi games for me :\

#80 by "alien8"
2000-07-20 18:22:44
Apparently there are more boxes to fill out than just the "Your comment:".

Ahh, no wonder, its only 10:15 am.  I should still be asleep.

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