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Bigger And Worse Than The Rest
July 16th 2000, 09:58 CEST by andy

Thanks to the blitz mentality -- no matter how bad something is, if it happens often enough you eventually stop noticing -- patches and so-called "point releases" haven't been getting much coverage here lately. But the Daikatana v1.1 patch deserves a special mention...



Not having played the game myself, I can only go on what other people have said. So if the general concensus from gamers and critics is correct, and ION Storm's flagship release is a clumsy, annoying mess of a game, then this patch at least keeps up with tradition.

First, some stats to put things in perspective: The final Quake 2 point release, including the full Capture The Flag, is 13.2Mb. The latest Unreal Tournament patch, including the rewritten level editor, plus the "bonus pack" with eleven new levels, adds up to 19.9Mb. The latest Half-Life upgrade, including the full Team Fortress Classic, is 37.5Mb. So that's a rough guide for how much 'extra' stuff you should get for your download.

The Daikatana patch weighs in at a staggering 44.3Mb. That's for bug fixes and virtually NO new content. ION Storm even warns that "it could take up to half an hour to apply the patch", and there is the now-expected advice that after installing, "your savegames will NOT work".

There are over 30 bug fixes and "new features", and almost every one of them can safely be classed as another victory for sloppy quality control, ie: Sidekick spawning has been fixed, solving a problem that meant "you couldn't finish the game". Demo recording and playback now "works", which I assume means it didn't before. And it's not often that a patch needs to say: "All map bugs have been fixed."

Other fixes include deathmatch crashes, a texture problem on Voodoo cards, and these two classics: "Fixed memory leaks", and "You cannot save on moving platforms anymore (which caused a bug)". Remember that Quake 2 had a problem with saving on moving platforms? That bug was fixed by... fixing it. The Daikatana solution is pathetic by comparison -- a lazy workaround, like those web sites that block Netscape because they only work in MSIE. (But hey, I've done that myself many years ago, so maybe I should get down off my high horse?)

To be fair, there are several good things about the patch, the most obvious ones being that you can now save whenever you want (apart from on moving platforms, of course), and there's a new deathmatch mode called "Instagib". But when you look at the overall package, you're still downloading over 40Mb to fix problems that could and should have been addressed before the game was released. Daikatana doesn't exactly have the excuse of being rushed, does it?

Finally, for anyone who thinks a 40Mb+ patch with a half-hour install time is pushing things a bit, the boys at ION Storm put forward this recommendation: "You can view the readme while the patch is installing." Either they missed the sarcastic smiley off the end of that, or they were being serious...

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#1 by "Russ"
2000-07-16 10:04:26
rthcowboy@mindspring.com
I remember when 40MB was the size of the entire hard drive. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-07-16 10:07:03
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
Who would care to download it, anyway? Maybe a few JR's bitches ;)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#3 by "Hoe Muffin"
2000-07-16 10:10:50
poontanger@hotmail.com
People actually kept the game that long? My brother bought it one afternoon, and boy did THAT game go back to the store in a hurry.
#4 by "Dritzen"
2000-07-16 10:16:49
alexcarr@canada.com http://onipotent.haquer.org
Actually, one of the things that I thought was funny was the fact that they screwed up the Kanji characters for 'Daikatana' in the first place.  It's not pronounced 'Daikatana', it's pronounced 'daitou' (daitoh for those of you who don't speak any Japanese).  You'd think that they would have paid someone to double check the Japanese.

Also, they tried making it look 'artistic' but wound up screwing the 'dai' character up.  I've seen elementary school kids that can write better kanji than that.

Yes, I live in Japan, so I know what I'm talking about.

-Dritzen
#5 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-16 10:30:42
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Hoe Muffin wrote in post #3:</b>
<quote>People actually kept the game that long? My brother bought it one afternoon, and boy did THAT game go back to the store in a hurry.</quote>
After I beat the game, I hurriedly uninstalled it. There's no way I was going to keep that sludge on my machine.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#6 by "Mankovic"
2000-07-16 10:46:04
mankovic@bellsouth.net http://
How long did it take for this game to finally come out? How many personnel firings/changes/appointments took place during its conception? Makes one wonder about games like Deus Ex, and how it came to fruition. In my opinion Romero had a vision of a game, and over time he lost the support for that vision, and what was released wasnt what he had hoped for.

I see one of a few things coming for game developers, either they enforce NDA's and prevent the release of "more than necessary information" to the public, or they strictly adhere to the original design document and release a game "when it's done".

I have a close friend who is one of the QA managers for Sony Entertainment, and he recently told me that their bug rate is virtually nonexistant due to the unheard of number of hours that are spent on Beta testing the games. I know consoles are a different breed from the many CPU/Graphic's chip combos out there, but the costs of both games are now getting very close. Makes me think that certain PC game developers are in it just for the money....and release these much hyped and touted "cash cows" when they should have wound up in the round file. Especially when the engine tech is severly outdated.

I don't mind patches if they add stuff, or fix problems that crop up due to new hardware issues. But at least ION <b>IS</b> supporting it's product, we cant say the same for some other developers. Be happy that ION chose to do so. I won't condemn a company who shows an interest in making things right. As long as it doesn't cost me anything...:)

And no, I do not have Daikatana...I have sworn off this "be the first to have a game" mentality I used to have...I just purchased Q3 last week and UT the week before, no more will I part so easily with my hard earned cash. I honestly thing that Consoles are eventually gonna rule supreme, due mainly to the new Internet connectivity of these new boxes, and at the rate new Video chips/Cards/CPU's are hitting the streets, the longevity factor of new PC's is being cut in half every 6 months to a year...I dont have that much extra money laying around, and I consider myself a pretty hardcore gamer.
#7 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-16 10:51:50
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Mankovic wrote in post #6:</b>
<quote>How long did it take for this game to finally come out?</quote>
Hell, I think the delay of the patch itself was kind of, well.. ironic. Just makes you think.

<quote>I don't mind patches if they add stuff, or fix problems that crop up due to new hardware issues. But at least ION <B>IS</B> supporting it's product, we cant say the same for some other developers. Be happy that ION chose to do so. I won't condemn a company who shows an interest in making things right. As long as it doesn't cost me anything...:) </quote>
You read the changes and the "features" of the Daikatana patch, right? It's a number of things that shouldn't have had to be patched in the first place. Game stopping bug that pretty much everyone runs into? How the hell does that get through QA? If you ask me, Eidos just took the gold candidate and shipped it.

<quote>I honestly thing that Consoles are eventually gonna rule supreme, due mainly to the new Internet connectivity of these new boxes, and at the rate new Video chips/Cards/CPU's are hitting the streets, the longevity factor of new PC's is being cut in half every 6 months to a year...</quote>
Until we see consoles that can plug into a cable modem or equally faster device, no one is going to give a rat's ass about playing with a 56k modem that is installed in the console.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#8 by "Flamethrower"
2000-07-16 10:56:01
blah http://blah
Andy,

This horse has been flogged so hard the flesh has been stripped from it, the bones cracked, the internal organs ground.

I'm standing back in my butchers apron, grasping my cat-o-nintey-tails, looking at the gore and shards of bone, and I can't help wondering what possible mileage there is left?


Surely, by now, posting to a message board about how " sux", they would be the maggots writing in the rotting horse meat?


<b>So come on maggots, feast on the carcass!</b>
#9 by "Flamethrower"
2000-07-16 10:57:53
blah http://blah
" sux" -- "Dai sux"
"writing" -- "writhing"
#10 by "Jowr"
2000-07-16 11:13:18
jowr@sdf.lonestar.org
My first harddrive was 100 megs. It would take 17 of those to hold just my half life folder.

There is a problem with 'patches' these days IMHO. More and more often they are used to put out new games and features that dont belong in a patch, like TFC for half life.

BTW, we all know by now that Diakatana sucks ass, why does it have to be repeated and repeated?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#11 by "WooJin Lee"
2000-07-16 11:57:00
woojin@rpgfan.com http://www.rpgfan.com
Dritzen, remember Tenchi Muyo? I don't think you can tell me that Mihoshi should be pronounced that way if you go by the kanji (Beauty-Star).  Same thing with Daikatana:It just sounds better(though not by much :P)

Hell, who ever thought "Big Single-Edged-Blade" would be a good game title isn't thinking very much :P
#12 by "Milky"
2000-07-16 12:36:57
milky@deathsdoor.com http://www.verbalchilli.com
I didn't even notice the damned thing come out. Internet game of Doom2 anyone?
#13 by "Flamethrower"
2000-07-16 12:44:58
blah http://blah
I'm going to try the Heretic II bot while I wait for the SOF Gold patch.

Bots ROCK.

I wonder if anyone is going to make an DM bot for MutilatedHorseCorpse.
#14 by "shaithis"
2000-07-16 13:06:12
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
1.7gb Half-Life folder? What the fuck do you have in there? :)

As far as the Daikatana patch goes, I guess I can sum it all up by something I said to Hellchick earlier tonight: "I do not think we will ever again see as collosal a fuck up as what became of Ion Storm," (at least, the Dallas offices). It's a complete shame. I have friends there still (and many more who've left), and I can't imagine it must be fun to know that the product you've finally put out needs 44mb worth of patching, and will still only be a mediocre game when even <i>that's</i> done.

I don't blame any of the developers at Ion, though, other than those at the top level. I don't even blame the guys from Third Law, who realized they were in a bad situation and got the hell out. I blame Todd Porter, and I blame Romero and Hall for not listening to Mike Wilson and Bob Wright about Todd Porter. About 90% of the people at Ion just want to make kickass games. It's the other 10% that screw everything up.

Bleh. It's late. I sleep. Later.

-shai
#15 by "BinTalal"
2000-07-16 13:23:29
aqala@yahoo.com http://elektron.its.tudelft.nl/~tw017143/
<QUOTE>My first harddrive was 100 megs. It would take 17 of those to hold just my half
                                    life folder.</QUOTE>

that will make it  1.7 GB. I had a 0.5 Gb unreal folder myself....you really need the sleep,
huh?! :)
#16 by "Jafd"
2000-07-16 14:04:57
jafd@zombieworld.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com/
FWIW, I really thought the skill point system in Daikatana was really worthwhile. I hope to see something similar in future shooters.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#17 by "MCorleone"
2000-07-16 14:09:13
john_st123@hotmail.com
Dethstryk?  In
#18 by "MCorleone"
2000-07-16 14:10:26
john_st123@hotmail.com
Uh oh.  It didn't like my less-than symbol.

Dethstryk?  In less than three months Sega is selling an Ethernet Adapter for Dreamcast so we can hook them up to our CableModems.  They're already out in Japan.
#19 by "Flamethrower"
2000-07-16 14:12:52
blah http://blah
Jafd, how do you work that out?

Surely a FPS is about progression. More powerful monsters and more powerful weapons to despatch them (thus if you find an earlier monster or two later on, your big guns wipe them out; or if you get a limited ammo powerful weapon, say from a secret, you can use that to help out enormously early on). Ultimately you're just centering the screen on an object and clicking a button.

Some kind of skill/proficiency system could have worked well in Hexen II, but ultimately isn't it just a complication? An 'interactive experience' like System Shock 2 certainly benefits from such a system, but then, that games thrives on complexity.
#20 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-16 14:14:27
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>MCorleone wrote in post #18:</b>
<quote>Dethstryk? In less than three months Sega is selling an Ethernet Adapter for Dreamcast so we can hook them up to our CableModems. They're already out in Japan. </quote>
Then I've stood corrected, and I can't wait to see these suckers, I'd love to hook them up to my Dreamcast. (This shows you how much I pay attention to the console market.)


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#21 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-16 14:15:52
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Jafd wrote in post #16:</b>
<quote>FWIW, I really thought the skill point system in Daikatana was really worthwhile. I hope to see something similar in future shooters.</quote>
Maybe it's just me, but did those stupid skills not really help worth a damn anyway? The game is point and shoot, that's it. I don't think ION had to do much balancing and playtesting with that area of the game..


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#22 by "Baytor"
2000-07-16 14:37:07
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
Damn, the rushed, uber-buggy Sin had its point release patch weighing in at 18 Megs.  The never quite fixed Blood 2's final patch was 12 Megs, and it added CTF maps.

What the hell do you have to screw up to get a patch weighing in at 44 Megs.

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#23 by "Reuben"
2000-07-16 14:41:28
Reuben@digink.com http://www.digink.com
Response to #22


ALOT.
#24 by "Desiato"
2000-07-16 14:50:23
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Reality check -- anyone who would use the <B>*size*</B> of a patch as an argument against a game clearly doesn't have all his marbles.

If that person were part of the coding/art team, sure - I could expect them to explain _what_ is contained and why it was done, but for an outsider that has no idea how the game was put together - other than what he's put together from the backs of crisp packages, it just doesn't make any rational sense.

Oh right -- I'm sorry, I forgot this is an "opinion" article. Facts are not needed here.

My fault. Continue, please.

Desiato
#25 by "Hoe Muffin"
2000-07-16 14:52:17
poontanger@hotmail.com
Mankovic:
<QUOTE>I have a close friend who is one of the QA managers for Sony Entertainment, and he recently told me that their bug rate is virtually nonexistant due to the unheard of number of hours that are spent on Beta testing the games. I know consoles are a different breed from the many CPU/Graphic's chip combos out there, but the costs of both games are now getting very close. Makes me think that certain PC game developers are in it just for the money....and release these much hyped and touted "cash cows" when they should have wound up in the round file. Especially when the engine tech is severly outdated. </QUOTE>

The problem is that consoles don't have to deal with the patch problem, which costs PC makers money. You'd figure that with the amount of time Ion Storm had to develop Daikatana, they'd have ironed some of the bugs. Besides, it looks like a lot of PC game developers are turning to consoles, where a lot of the money is heading towards these days. Case in point: FFIX (Final Fantasy IX). It sold 1.95 <B>MILLION</B> copies in a grand total of about 4 days. Ouch. The FF series as a whole is nearing the 30 million mark. You'd be hard pressed to find a PC game (or series) that could match that.
#26 by "MCorleone"
2000-07-16 14:56:59
john_st123@hotmail.com
You know?  That's always bothered me.  You always just get as powerful as the enemies that you're facing.  I would LOVE it if you got powerful weapons/spells, etc. that helped you dispatch enemies easily.

You could do it in Fallout2:  After you've finished the game and know the relative location of the base close to the south of the map?  You can just load/save until you get to the base without random mutant encounters (who would shred you when you first begin), get to the Citadel base (not the right name for it) and get power armour and beautiful weapons.  That helps a lot earlier on.  

Getting more powerful items/weapons and spells makes you think "Wow, now I'll be able to wipe through enemies!" and then in reality it's just more of the same:  Desperate battles.

Someone please!  Break the mold!
#27 by "MCorleone"
2000-07-16 14:58:18
john_st123@hotmail.com
Let me clarify the Fallout2 part:  After you've beaten the game and know the location, if you start a NEW game, you can use this cheat.  This was actually pointed out by BlackIsle themselves after an early patch broke savegames that people had invested a lot of hours in.
#28 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-16 14:59:34
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Desiato wrote in post #24:</b>
<quote>Reality check -- anyone who would use the <B>*size*</B> of a patch as an argument against a game clearly doesn't have all his marbles.</quote>
You go read what is changed and added in the Daikatana patch, and then rethink it. The size of this patch is ridiculious, and speaking of the developers, they could at least tell us why many people will spend hours getting their big damn patch for nothing new, and only stuff that should have come straight out of the box.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#29 by "MCorleone"
2000-07-16 15:00:19
john_st123@hotmail.com
24: Desiato:

Coding/Art team?  I don't know about the coding, but I hear that right after the game shipped that the entire art department was let go.  Did you read Keighley's "Behind the game" or whatever it was called?  "The 1300 pixel arrow"?
#30 by "Flamethrower"
2000-07-16 16:11:57
blah http://blah
BAYTOR
<quote>
Damn, the rushed, uber-buggy Sin had its point release patch weighing in at 18 Megs. </quote>

Surely this included CTF? I thought the non-CTF releases (1.02/1.03?) were just a few meg.


It would be very interesting if someone examined this patch to find out, exactly, what was in it. Are we talking about re-issues of entire maps and models?


A 10, 20, 30, or even 50, meg "Expansion Pack" is OK if it contains huge additional content, like a new single player episode or a multiplayer mod with lots of models and maps, but that's not a "patch".

A "patch" should be reasonably downloadable from the net. I'd say SIX meg is over the top.

I suspect JR is going to have this one spun, you know, as in "well, if only people had applied the patch, we put over fifty megabytes of content into that".

I'm really past caring about ION STORM now...
#31 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-16 16:16:02
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Flamethrower wrote in post #30:</b>
<quote>I'm really past caring about ION STORM now... </quote>
I think to be fair, statements like this should say something like "I'm really past caring about ION STORM Dallas right now.."

It just makes more sense, unless you really do hate everything they do.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#32 by "Dark Messiah"
2000-07-16 16:53:29
Sabre17394@aol.com http://www.opnation.com
<QUOTE>Until we see consoles that can plug into a cable modem or equally faster device, no one is going to give a rat's ass about playing with a 56k modem that is installed in the console. </QUOTE>
I thought the PlayStation 2 was going to have a cable modem made for it soon... I don't know if this is true, I read a lot of stories so I tend to get details mixed up.

As far as this patch goes. ION screwed up big-time. Daikatana was horrible from the moment I tried the demo they released over a year ago, and my opinion has not changed. This patch is just another shining example of how incompetent this company is. Not only can they fail to produce a quality product, despite having TONS of money and development time, but they can't even cover-up the fact that they bungled the initial release. All sorts of bug-fixes that should have been done before the game hit the market. Aside form that, the sheer size of it is indicative of ION Storm's callous disregard for a large portion of their customer base (if they still have one) that had dial-up access. A 44 Mb patch would take a very long time, even on 56k.

"At least they're supporting their product"

Name one high-profile company that has released a game and released NO patches, despite bugs. (I am not counting companies that eventually give up/stop--they all eventually do.)

Dark Messiah
Opinion Nation
#33 by "Hoe Muffin"
2000-07-16 17:15:43
poontanger@hotmail.com
I agree with Dethstryk. Let's make a distinction between Ion Storm Dallas and Ion Storm Austin. I'm lovin' every second of Deus Ex. Warren Spector and crew deserve a big thumbs up for saving Ion Storm from being the biggest screw-up in the gaming industry since the Virtuaboy (Oh my, did that suck. And yes, I have one). Hopefully, Romero has learned something from this fiasco, and he won't screw up this bad next time. If not, then I'll be hoping that the company that picks up Eidos makes JR "suck it down". Still in spite of all this, Anachronox (hope I spelled that right) is actually looking pretty decent. Isn't that using the Quake II engine as well?
#34 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-16 17:20:12
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Hoe Muffin wrote in post #33:</b>
<quote>Still in spite of all this, Anachronox (hope I spelled that right) is actually looking pretty decent. Isn't that using the Quake II engine as well? </quote>
Right on, and I expect Anachronox to be of the same high quality caliber as Deus Ex is. Just stay away from those Dallas offices and we'll be fine.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#35 by "Dritzen"
2000-07-16 17:36:13
alexcarr@canada.com http://onipotent.haquer.org
Yes, I remember Tenchi Muyo.  In fact, it's still on TV all the time.  Well, I wouldn't have cared if they said 'Daikatana' and left out the kanji but all the Japanese kids that see the box complain about the 'goofy americans' that don't know how to use Kanji properly.

Hell, seeing 'daikatana' all over the place and knowing that it's wrong just kind of pisses me off, know what I mean?

-Dritzen
#36 by "Flamethrower"
2000-07-16 17:40:01
blah http://blah
I disagree with Dethstrk.

Why don't the non-Dallas Cowboys call themselves "Austin Game Powers".

Say I start a company, say, Flamethrower's Burgers, and I put rat poison in them. I think you'll all agree it's feasable I could do such a thing. Say I hire a chap in Dundee to make "Flamethrowers Burgers" but he doesn't use rat poision because he's weak. Meanwhile Flamethrower's Burgers kill four thousand people and give the runny shits to four thousand more. You go to Dundee and meet a guy selling Flamethrower's Burgers and he cries that people aren't eating his burgers because they're frightened of uncontrollable and liquid bowels, if not outright death.

What should he do?

1. Continue selling "Flamethrower's Burgers".

2. Sell "Flamethrower's Burgers: Dundee Edition".

3. Sell "Dundee Fun Burgers, Mortality Rate - 0%"
#37 by "Andy"
2000-07-16 17:43:23
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#14</b>, shaithis:
<QUOTE>
I don't blame any of the developers at Ion, though, other than those at the top level.
</QUOTE>
If the game is as bad as people say it is, you can't pin all (or even most of) the blame onto the management team. Individual developers have to accept some responsibility.

If the game had great level design, great artwork, great coding, great music and great sound effects, it should be a great game. If it's less than great, it's not just management that dropped the ball.


<b>#30</b>, Flamethrower:
<QUOTE>
I suspect JR is going to have this one spun, you know, as in "well, if only people had applied the patch, we put over fifty megabytes of content into that".
</QUOTE>
That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
#38 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-07-16 17:58:29
rhiggi@home.com
<b>#37</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>
If the game is as bad as people say it is, you can't pin all (or even most of) the blame onto the management team. Individual developers have to accept some responsibility.

If the game had great level design, great artwork, great coding, great music and great sound effects, it should be a great game. If it's less than great, it's not just management that dropped the ball.
</QUOTE>

Thats not true.  The guys in charge make those decisions... through shit out the door or not.  The rest of the food chain may or may not be responsible, you dont know.  It could be some level designer had kickass designs for some of the levels and they got nixed for a variety of reasons.  You can safely say that there was a organizational failure, but I wouldn't blame the janitor :).  

Usually when you discover a problem that means the shit is gonna hit the fan, you pass it on up the chain of command (at least I do).  Somebody upstairs makes the critical decision.  If they make the wrong one you get pissed because deep down you know its wrong.  If they continuously make the wrong decisions you have two choices,  be prepared to take the blame (blame is like flak, it doesn't necessarily take out the intented tarket and you very likely will get friendly casualitys) or leave to bind a job somewhere else.  There are people out there whos only job is placing responsibilty at other peoples doors...

btw: its official, Dallas is one degree cooler than hell.  I woke up this morning to find my AC was puting out <b>hot</b> air, forgive me if I rant a little ;)

V<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#39 by "Mankovic"
2000-07-16 18:02:31
mankovic@bellsouth.net http://
Dethstryk wrote:<quote>You read the changes and the "features" of the Daikatana patch, right? It's a number of
things that shouldn't have had to be patched in the first place. Game stopping bug that pretty much everyone runs into? How the hell does that get through QA? If you ask me,
Eidos just took the gold candidate and shipped it.</quote>

So now it's Eidos' fault? Hmmm

Does this patch fix <b>ALL</b> of the bugs? Did they get it right the first time? This, I'd be interested in knowing.
#40 by "Hoe Muffin"
2000-07-16 18:04:11
poontanger@hotmail.com
<B>#34, DethStryk</B>
<QUOTE>Yes, I remember Tenchi Muyo. In fact, it's still on TV all the time. Well, I wouldn't have cared if they said 'Daikatana' and left out the kanji but all the Japanese kids that see the box complain about the 'goofy americans' that don't know how to use Kanji properly.

Hell, seeing 'daikatana' all over the place and knowing that it's wrong just kind of pisses me off, know what I mean?

-Dritzen
</QUOTE>

Thankfully, Cartoon Network's dub isn't as wretched as DBZ. Anyways back to the Daikatana thingy... it looks stupid in Chinese too. I can't wait till Ion tries to market this stuff in Asia (it probably already has).

And Flamethrower, I'm sure Specter and Crew have thought about it, but maybe they're bound by some legal contract. I can't really say, though I wish they'd start off someplace else. By the way, does anyone know how well Daikatana is (was) selling? When my brother returned Daikatana, the clerk didn't even ask for a reason, apparently there had been a LOT of returns.
#41 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-16 18:07:01
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Mankovic wrote in post #39:</b>
<quote>So now it's Eidos' fault? Hmmm..</quote>
I meant it more as a, "Damn it, just ship this already delayed game and get it out of the way!" I respect Eidos, and I would have wanted to push the stupid thing out anyway.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#42 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-07-16 18:27:30
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
Post <b>#39</b> by Mankovic:
<QUOTE><i>Does this patch fix <B>ALL</B> of the bugs? Did they get it right the first time? This, I'd be interested in knowing.
</i></QUOTE>

I am sure it does, because to find new bugs someone should be playing the game. Seeing how popular Dai is right now I doubt many new bugs would be discovered. As to whether it fixes all currently known bugs... it should, because that's what the patches are for (especially 50Mb ones where new content is limited to "Instagib mod added"), but we'll never know.

Offtopic: anyone played Icewind Dale yet? It got shadowed by D2's release so I just got mine today... very nice RPG for those who wants a change from Diablo-style hackandslash action :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#43 by "None-1a"
2000-07-16 18:52:56
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
Andy you forget of big one,

"Multiple graphic cards are selectable within the game, including Voodoo cards If you are having problems with Daikatana running slow with your Voodoo, after applying this patch, run Daikatana, go to the VIDEO menu and at the top of the screen you'll see a pull-down menu. Pull it down and select "Voodoo Mini ICD" and click on Apply Changes. "

Is it just me or did Ion Dallas take every thing that worked about the Quake II engine and throw it out the door at some point?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#44 by "Mankovic"
2000-07-16 19:07:46
mankovic@bellsouth.net http://
PiRaMidA wrote:I am sure it does,</quote>

/sarcasm on
I might just run out and buy the game now...;)
/sarcasm off

Seriously though, I played the demo as well, and the netcode/play was fairly solid from what I can remember of it. Is the retail version really <b>that</b> bad?
#45 by "Flamethrower"
2000-07-16 19:08:01
blah http://blah
ANDY RECKONED:

<quote>If the game is as bad as people say it is, you can't pin all (or even most of) the blame onto the management team. Individual developers have to accept some responsibility.

If the game had great level design, great artwork, great coding, great music and great sound effects, it should be a great game. If it's less than great, it's not just management that dropped the ball. </quote>

Management can stop an artist doing good things, example id Software. They have great art and great coding, and yet took a (concious) decision to unempower the level designers after Quake. The consequence of that is, well, no great level design since Quake. Look at Brandon James and his MANSON series, are you telling me he would not have KILLED to work on a Quake III muliplayer game? Did you read that recent interview with Paul Jaquays, he talks about the bad bit of team work (i.e. the 'team' get to tell you to re-do your level in their style). The owners are more than equals when it comes to 'teamplay'.

The shame of it is, with real power Jaquas could have made WONDERFUL levels, he loves those twist, mazey, take-six-months-to-learn-well levels. You know - the classics. He was not permitted to make and incorporate them.

Same thing with Brandon. He wanted to make levels. He was not allowed. He was there to push out crap-and-shit-to-order.

You only need to look at the CTF maps to see how far id Software have slid down the level-design-God charts. Look at the Quake maps again, the verticality, the interconnectivity, look again at Quake III.

The Old and the Bold level designers at id Software were medicated toilet paper (they're rough, they're tough, they take no shit from anyone).

Cheers John, Adrian, Kevin; and your willing accomplice Tim for fucking it all up, y'cunts.


And yes, far worse shit was going on at ION Storm. Jerry O'Flaherty wanted to render the levels in Lightwave first (yegods) and there was the threat of DISCIPLINARY ACTION against level designers who contacted the texture artists directly (as opposed to via offical channels, emails, and managers).

Re-do that. Re-do this. That's crap. Change that. That's not what I asked for. That's not what I wanted. Don't you understand the design spec? The frames per second are too high. I don't like that.

As Ali might say, "talk to the Todd because the Hair ain't listening."
#46 by "Mankovic"
2000-07-16 19:09:23
mankovic@bellsouth.net http://
eek!...didnt know there was a sarcasm tag floating out there...I have no idea what I just did...:/
#47 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-16 20:05:07
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
Flamethrower :

To condemn ION Austin based on the actions of ION Dallas is just wrong.  Deus Ex is a great, great game and it shows what a dedicated team can do no matter what the circumstances.

If you can't give Deus Ex an honest shot because of your (exaggerated) feelings for Daikatana, then you're bitter beyond repair ... and you're cheating yourself out of an amazing game experience.
#48 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-16 20:06:38
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
And I have to disagree about the Quake2 level design (which came after Quake, which is when you claim things fell apart).  I thought the level design in Quake2 was very, very cool.
#49 by "shaithis"
2000-07-16 20:37:18
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
<B>Andy</B> -

As far as I can tell, what your suggesting is this:

It is the designers fault that they were unable to pick up the shattered pieces of a game already left by not one, but two waves of developers, and turn it into something brilliant.

Further, it's their fault that they were forced to produce most of their work in a pressure-cooker environment (that forced many more of them to leave), under management that didn't care (Romero) or was flat-out poisonous (Todd Porter) while watching the Dallas Observer and a shitload of websites publish tons and tons of emails, anonymous or not, badmouthing the company they worked for.

Even further, it's their fault that they couldn't reassemble these pieces back into a fantastic game in a little under a year, with no direction, and constant pressure from Eidos to get the thing out the door.

Personally, I feel it's a credit to the developers that the damn thing is playable at all. If you've got a team of six people developing a website, and they all walk out on the same day, the next team might as well start the website from scratch. Trying to work with something half-done like that is almost a guarantee of mediocrity. The Daikatana team wasn't given any choice in the matter, which is why I don't blame them.

-shaithis
#50 by "shaithis"
2000-07-16 20:38:55
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
Oh my god.

First sentence: "You're", not "Your".
Second sentence: "designers'", not "designers"

I blame the fact that I just rolled out of bed.

-shai
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