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Historical Film, Anti-Semitic Propoganda, or Just Another Damn Movie?
February 26th 2004, 20:47 CET by Trunks

We've all been hearing the talk about Mel Gibson's latest work, Passion of the Christ, which is supposed to be an accurate portrayal* of Jesus H. Christ's last hours on Terra Firma.  Reviews and opinions have been mixed.  Many are calling it genius from a film standpoint.  Others claim it's too violent.  Some in the Jewish community call it Anti-Semitic, stating that the movie makes the Jews look bad while absolving the Romans from being shed in a bad light.  Others still are worried that, while the movie isn't explicitly Anti-Semitic, there's enough of an inference there to rile up the religious zealot types into starting a wave of Anti-Jew violence and debauchery.

But screw all that, I'm more interested in the vaunted Crapper community's opinion of the film, given the fabulous film commentary made around here in times past.  That and Episode 3's still a good year away and we can't start a thread for that one yet...I think.

*According to Gibson's interpretation of the New Testament anyway.
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Home » Topic: Historical Film, Anti-Semitic Propoganda, or Just Another Damn Movie?

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#1 by yotsuya
2004-02-26 20:47:58
No plans to see it.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#2 by LoneStar
2004-02-26 20:48:19
cwcraig64@hotmail.com
I haven't seen the movie yet but I plan to this weekend and look forward to it. Will post more then!

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one
#3 by Shadarr
2004-02-26 20:52:19
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Don't plan to see it.  Especially after Gibson claimed it was really God making the film through him.
#4 by CheesyPoof
2004-02-26 20:52:29
I would like to see it.  I don't think that I will get to see it in the theaters though.  I read Ebert's review and found it to be one of the better ones out there and avoided much of the knee jerk reaction too it.
#5 by Gunp01nt
2004-02-26 20:53:22
supersimon33@hotmail.com
I wonder if the hardcore fans of the book will come to the premiere dressed up as one of the characters.

I want a horse that ribbits and a frog that neighs... oink oink oink
#6 by hangedmanAG
2004-02-26 20:59:47
www.livejournal.com/users/hangedman_ag/
Part of me wants to see the film as a good film about Christ has been a long time coming.  Plus, faith is a subject that is so poorly handled in Hollywood, that I feel there is something refreshing about the subject matter.

At the same time, I don't want to cough up any money for it.  I don't like Mel Gibson's bizarre rants promoting the film and I don't like the way he has been whipping the evangelicals into a frenzy.  Turn on any Christian channel and they keep talking about how you have to see this film and support it as it will allow them power in Hollywood to promote their agenda.  I just find that odious.

He's all up in my Kool-Aid, and he don't even know the flavor - seen on Friendster
#7 by yotsuya
2004-02-26 21:04:10
I totally agree with you, AG. As someone who is a Christian, I am so turned off by the Evangelical approach that I see. I like how people I talk to think Hollywood wants this film to fail. I try to point out the controversy is not about that, but they are hesitant to believe that. I don't see to see graphic depictions of Christ's death in order to understand His sacrifice.

I would be interested, though, to hear what the Athiest/Agnostic majority here at PC think of the film.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#8 by Hugin
2004-02-26 21:04:35
lmccain@nber.org
I'm pretty much in agreement with Hangedman.  I don't like the idea of the movie whipping up the fundies into even more of a fascist frenzy. I don't like Gibson's publicly stated views.  And I don't like the notion of turning the crucifxion into porn. That's not what Jesus is about for me.  I'm firmly convinced that if Jesus himself were telling a story about his life and why it was important, it wouldn't focus for 40 minutes on torture and such.

I'm interested in the movie, but I can't bring myself to support it directly with my moviegoing dollar.
#9 by yotsuya
2004-02-26 21:04:55
I don't need to see, that is.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#10 by Trunks
2004-02-26 21:06:27
Hey, I voted Yes for yot's Ep 3 thread and it disappeared!!

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller
#11 by yotsuya
2004-02-26 21:08:06
It's on hiatus until further notice.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#12 by Caryn
2004-02-26 21:11:23
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
I'm very interested in how closely the movie sticks to or how widely it differs from the scriptures and what we know of the historical Jesus. From what I understand Gibson took some pretty big leaps away from both.

I would like to see it because I'm very interested in all things Biblical from a myth and story standpoint.

"For those who have come to grow, the whole world is a garden. For those who have come to learn, the whole world is a university. For those who have come to know God, the whole world is a prayer mat." - M. R. Bawa Muhaiyadeen
#13 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2004-02-26 21:19:35
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
what the FUCK is a jesus

Intergalactic Turnip Festival Destroyer
#14 by Greg
2004-02-26 21:22:15
It's ironic to me that Gibson is whipping the evangelicals into a frenzy. He's Catholic. (Ok, some bizarre sect, but still..)

-DKI(ID
#15 by haplo
2004-02-26 21:22:25
I'm sort of interested in seeing how they handle the dialog in these old languages, but I can wait for cable.

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building
#16 by nothing
2004-02-26 21:24:31
The Passion is the movie equivalent of Duke Nukem 4Ever.

The number of people who both criticized and defended it without having seen it is ridiculous.

If it turns out it's good, Iíll check it out.  If it isn't, no big loss
#17 by Charles
2004-02-26 21:25:59
www.bluh.org
Does Jesus live this time?  Does it mean all the bible thumpers can finally shut the fuck up?

Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses.
#18 by lwf
2004-02-26 21:27:02
Jesus could have lived, if he wanted to.

Plan to hitch a ride with the river
Cuz deep down plumbing life is too cramped for me
#19 by Gunp01nt
2004-02-26 21:28:03
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Yeah, there's a deus ex machina that saves him.

I can see the forum chatter now:
"So did Jesus really die or not? He disappears from the cave after three days so does that mean he's still alive?"
-"Yeah, that had 'money grabbing sequel' written all over it, man."

I want a horse that ribbits and a frog that neighs... oink oink oink
#20 by Post-It
2004-02-26 21:31:18
keithlee@speakeasy.net
We need more prayers reinterpreted for the interweb generation.

Comment Signature
#21 by LPMiller
2004-02-26 21:39:23
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
In the special edition, you see the Pontus fires first.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#22 by CheesyPoof
2004-02-26 21:41:22
It's ironic to me that Gibson is whipping the evangelicals into a frenzy. He's Catholic. (Ok, some bizarre sect, but still..)

Yes, I think it's funny.  All the fundie bible thumpers love the film, but really can't stand Catholics in the end.  Im surprise so many of them are supporing the movie, esp. when you take into account Gibson's staunch belief in the old Catholic church and not the reformed second vatican one.
#23 by haplo
2004-02-26 21:52:08
loogies can kill

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building
#24 by jjohnsen
2004-02-26 21:53:17
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Yot
As someone who is a Christian, I am so turned off by the Evangelical approach that I see. I like how people I talk to think Hollywood wants this film to fail. I try to point out the controversy is not about that, but they are hesitant to believe that. I don't see to see graphic depictions of Christ's death in order to understand His sacrifice.


This sums up my feelings pretty well.  Seeing the blood and flesh flying off a whip isn't going to help me understand anything better.  Maybe I'll catch it on video if enough trustworthy sources tell me how much they like it.

-Jeremy
#25 by Phayyde
2004-02-26 22:05:11
I haven't seen the film but I heard a reviewer say "Gibson is an angry man".  

Apparently, the film dwells on the torture, death and morbid suffering of Christ.  

I wanted to slap the reviewer.  Dumbfuck journalist wannabee.  It's called the "Passion" for a fucking reason.  It's a Centuries old classic form of Xian storytelling.  It's meant to horrify, motivate, and ultimately to inspire.   (And yes, like all powerful ideas, it HAS been abused)

There are hundreds of these ancient stories waiting in the wings for a fresh retelling on film.  I'd pay to rent them all.

Beowulf.
Gilgamesh.
Fucking , ah, whatwasit, yeah Canterbury Tales would be some funny shit BEGGING for a LOTR style trilogy.

I think this trend is only beginning.  What's interesting is the fact that our modernist culture believes it is far superior to past cultures, esp intellectually.  These movies will be the judge of that.  I thoink it's extremely useful to hold these retellings up to the originals and THEN measure intellects.

See what they do to Beowulf.  They'll make Grendel a CGI-Hulk stomping around with side-splitting one-liners.  Then you can buy the Grendel Hands at Toys'R'Us and demonstrate to your favorite modernist how intellectually superior our Corporate driven capitalistic system is.

Great literature is ignored while we bicker over trivia!  Fuck you all!

Beat to fit, paint to match.
#26 by God
2004-02-26 22:05:13
Some things in life are bad,
They can really make you mad,
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle,
Don't grumble, give a whistle,
And this'll help things turn out for the best...
#27 by hangedmanAG
2004-02-26 22:11:56
www.livejournal.com/users/hangedman_ag/
Again, I love the concept of the film.  Updating, of all things, medeivel passion plays is a brilliant idea and if done honestly and competently, as I've heard Gibson has done, would provide a nice counterpoint to just about any movie coming out.  Even though I'm agnostic, I'm also fascinated by a more a Catholic interpretation of Christ (focus on his suffering and sacrifice) as a counterpoint to the primarily Protestant outlook in America.  It really does have all the makings for a significant cinematic event.

That said, I don't want to give that man a single frickin' dime of my money due to my reasons above.

He's all up in my Kool-Aid, and he don't even know the flavor - seen on Friendster
#28 by Hugin
2004-02-26 22:24:41
lmccain@nber.org
One problem is, I don't think a lot of people know what passion plays are.  Idon't think they understand the sort of representaional bias built into the things.  Without that knowledge, that context...it' sjust creepy having people running around saying 'it's so accurate to the gospels!"  No, it isn't.  "That's how it really happened!"  no.  It's a particular kind of story, told in a particular way, with a particular intent.  There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but dammit, know what you're looking at and why it was made.
#29 by Trunks
2004-02-26 22:25:30
At least Gibson funded the whole movie himself.  Though he probably also did that because it would be the only way he could get away with making the movie his way without any bickering with a backing studio.

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller
#30 by Trunks
2004-02-26 22:26:31
Unfortunately I think you're asking too much from the common American out there Hugin.

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller
#31 by Ergo
2004-02-26 22:30:12
I plan on seeing the film when it's released on DVD.

Gibson is a religious loon, and it makes me chuckle when he says that he wanted the film to be "historically accurate." WTF? Today's top biblical scholars still can't 100% agree whether the man actually ever existed.

MY FATE KEEPS INTERFERING WITH MY DESTINY. THAT IS KARMA.
DVDs
#32 by LPMiller
2004-02-26 22:30:21
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Yes, and it will just be Americans that do that.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#33 by Foodbunny
2004-02-26 22:37:50
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
I'm not going to see it.  I'm not really interested in seeing buckets of gore without humor.  Even stripping away the religion, the Jesus story really does nothing for me.  I'd much rather see Canterbury Tales, that would be pretty cool.

Verily, they converse with her for this reason only, namely, that she appears to be a complete whore.
#34 by Charles
2004-02-26 22:38:59
www.bluh.org
I have no interest in seeing it because the trailer looked crappy.

Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses.
#35 by Matthew Gallant
2004-02-26 22:40:25
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
Woodwork creaks and out come the freaks.

"All I've ever wanted to be is a monkey of moderate intelligence that wears a suit. That's why I'm transferring to business school!"
#36 by Ergo
2004-02-26 22:44:51
#35 Matthew Gallant

*sigh*

MY FATE KEEPS INTERFERING WITH MY DESTINY. THAT IS KARMA.
DVDs
#37 by yotsuya
2004-02-26 22:46:07
#35

See, and what's so stupid about that is I know a lot of Christians who look at Israel as an ally because it's the Holy Land. Well, guess who lives in Israel?

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#38 by Trunks
2004-02-26 22:50:15
Indiana Jones?

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller
#39 by Shadarr
2004-02-26 22:51:16
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Yeah, but the Jews are just protecting the Holy Land from the evil Muslims until the real Christians, in America, need it.  At that point the Jews get killed along with all the other heathens.
#40 by Ergo
2004-02-26 22:51:27
#37 yotsuya
#35

See, and what's so stupid about that is I know a lot of Christians who look at Israel as an ally because it's the Holy Land. Well, guess who lives in Israel?

From what I understand, a lot of fundies believe that the jews must inhabit the Holy Land in order for Armageddon to occur. When that happens, the Jews must convert or die.

MY FATE KEEPS INTERFERING WITH MY DESTINY. THAT IS KARMA.
DVDs
#41 by Ergo
2004-02-26 22:51:53
Or what Shadarr said.

MY FATE KEEPS INTERFERING WITH MY DESTINY. THAT IS KARMA.
DVDs
#42 by Shadarr
2004-02-26 22:52:09
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
This is pretty funny, especially the backwards e.  Is there a George Bush font?
#43 by yotsuya
2004-02-26 22:53:13
You said it much more elegantly, Ergo.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#44 by chris
2004-02-26 23:02:58
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.cerebraldebris.com
This member of the atheistic/agnostic majority isn't real interested in seeing the film, because I don't find the idea of two-plus hours of good ol' catholic guilt real appealing. The gore doesn't bother me. I've seen a hojillion splatter movies that I'm sure are worse.

I'd be first in line for a movie that was built under the premise that Jesus WASN'T the son of God, but simply a political activist who was murdered for fucking with the status quo.

-chris
#45 by haplo
2004-02-26 23:03:04
Signs like that make me want to wear the biggest star of david possible.

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building
#46 by Ergo
2004-02-26 23:10:58
#44 chris
I'd be first in line for a movie that was built under the premise that Jesus WASN'T the son of God, but simply a political activist who was murdered for fucking with the status quo.

I'll second that opinion.

MY FATE KEEPS INTERFERING WITH MY DESTINY. THAT IS KARMA.
DVDs
#47 by hangedmanAG
2004-02-26 23:12:22
www.livejournal.com/users/hangedman_ag/
I'd be first in line for a movie that was built under the premise that Jesus WASN'T the son of God, but simply a political activist who was murdered for fucking with the status quo.


As a movie, that sounds terrible.  I would rather see a JFK-like movie where a bright young Roman lawyer digs deep to find who really killed Jesus.  I see Ashley Judd as the lawyer, Albert Finney as the high priest and Kevin Bacon as Pontius Pilate.

He's all up in my Kool-Aid, and he don't even know the flavor - seen on Friendster
#48 by haplo
2004-02-26 23:15:27
I'll second that opinion.


I'll third it.

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building
#49 by Trunks
2004-02-26 23:20:17
I'd be interested into seeing a conspiracy theory type movie into the investigation of the whole Holy Grail deal with Jesus.  Unfortunately, having played through Gabriel Knight 3, I can't picture how it would turn out without turning into Jane Jensen's story from that game...

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller
#50 by Trunks
2004-02-26 23:20:29
Minus the vampires anyway.

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller
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