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No Duke For Linux?
July 13th 2000, 00:03 CEST by andy

Bucking the trend of many recent first-person shooters, 3D Realms have confirmed that Duke Nukem Forever will not likely be released for Linux.



In a message over on the official 3DR message board, George Broussard explained:

Linux DNF is not a priority for us. Not to shun the Linux community, but we have our hands full with the Windows version and that will be done.

I doubt we will have the free time to port it to Linux for fun, and to give away, and I doubt there is enough money to be made to warrant a commercial Linux version.

Those are just the realities of the situation.

There are two reasons for covering this here...

Firstly, I think it's a shame, and I'm sure a lot of other people will too. I don't use Linux much myself, and haven't used it for games in over a year, but it's still nice when companies make the effort to support it.

Secondly, George's comment about the "realities of the situation" is in line with some of his recent postings on message boards, especially here at the 'Crap, and personally I find it rather disappointing.

Other financially-secure FPS companies -- Id Software and Valve being the most obvious examples, but also Epic and Raven -- either hire a Linux coder to port their games, or they contract someone to do it, or in some cases they've even got members of the community (under NDA) to do it for free.

Remember that 3DR recently hired Brandon Reinhart, who did the Linux port of Unreal, so they've already have someone on the staff who is capable of doing it.

When you consider what we've been hearing from 3DR recently, the attitude over there seems to be: "If there's no money in it for us, why should we do it?" That's a solid business angle, but it's certainly different from the attitude we've become accustomed to in the FPS community over the last few years.

Now, as you've no doubt noticed, things have been a bit heated recently between PlanetCrap and 3D Realms. So in the hope of avoiding any more unpleasantness, we contacted George and explained what this topic would be about, and asked for any comments that he might want to make.

This was his response:

Sigh... yet again a 3DR thread taking a small post off our board and stirring up trouble with it.

No comment Andy.

Disappointing. But then the weirdest thing happened...

Shortly after that e-mail, I got another one. It was sent as an "RE:" to my previous enquiry, but apparently it was a reply to someone else. No idea how he managed to send it to me by mistake, but I'm glad he did because at least now I know where I stand...

Haha funny you should mention this. Andy plans on making it his next PC topic.

Sigh. Just FYI, Andy is extremely hated around here. He's smart and a good writer, but clueless.

He slants and skews things to get news and hits. Simple as that. He takes a post off our boards and slants it to "you guys are abandoning the community. You are mercenaries. You don't care." (all this from an email to me).

We were the first major FPS ever to include a free editor with the release. And the first to write a scripting language for mods. All prior to Quake.

So in short? Fuck Andy. Just so you know my opinion of him.

George! Sweetheart! You make me feel so special. ;-)

C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: No Duke For Linux?

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#1 by "Botswana"
2000-07-13 00:05:20
Ok?
#2 by "Rantage"
2000-07-13 00:06:56
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
Andy, at this point I'm not sure if I should believe <I>either</I> side of the story, but posting it makes you look like quite the self-licking ice cream cone.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#3 by "Stickerboy"
2000-07-13 00:10:15
jclee@ou.edu
<QUOTE>Other financially-secure FPS companies -- Id Software and Valve being the most obvious examples, but also Epic and Raven -- either hire a Linux coder to port their games, or they contract someone to do it, or in some cases they've even got members of the community (under NDA) to do it for free.</QUOTE>

Whaaaaat?  Valve with a Linux version of Half-life?  I'm a HL (well, TFC) nut, and the only Linux version I know of is the dedicated server.  Which is useful considering the number of Linux servers out there, don't get me wrong, but playing it just isn't much fun. ;o  And Epic is having trouble porting Unreal over to Linux, last I heard, which is why they decided to Open Source parts of it.
#4 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-13 00:10:26
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
No Duke for Linux. Big fucking deal.

I feel sorry for every person a company hires to port their games to Linux. That's a waste of time and money, and it really isn't worth the efforts.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#5 by "Talion"
2000-07-13 00:11:29
talion6@hotmail.com
Posting email not meant for public consumption, although I doubt in this case anyone learned anything new, is just the sort of thing that people use to write you off as being like Evil Avatar.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#6 by "Ryan Greene"
2000-07-13 00:14:01
rxgreene@netzero.com
Without risk, there is no reward.
Sad to see that they will not be doing this.  As this is a sort of catch 22 situation.  There are not any games for Linux, because there is not enough of an installed user base.  Gamers do not put Linux on their machines, because there aren't enough games.
Much like what has been going on with Apple for the past few years.

Sarcasm mode on
Well Andy, at least you know if you end up in Texas, you'll have somewhere to sleep!
Sarcasm mode off
#7 by "George Broussard"
2000-07-13 00:16:41
georgeb@3drealms.com
Wow Andy!  Posting PRIVATE emails now?  I hope to hell all the PC fans REALLY see what a petty person you are now!  You have ZERO credibility IMO.

I plead with everyone to flee PC, or ask that Andy be removed from it.

Here's something I posted over at Blue's:

"Where's the Linux port of Diablo 2? Diablo? Any Lucas Arts game, EA, Activison etc etc etc...The list goes on and on and on.

We support the community greatly, but making sure we have a level editor and scripting language for mods. We will release ALL our internal tools for skinning and skeletal animations. We support users greaty.

Duke Nukem 3D was the first major FPS where a developer provided a level editor and scripting language. All prior to Quake. We do care. A lot.

We'll see about Linux. But come on. The only valid argument for anything Linux is a server for net games. Everything else is just a very small fan base wanting support for their OS. And I can't blame them one bit. I just also can't justify the work or investment for a free Lilnux port. Possibly we'll let someone else do it after the release. I think that would be fine."

Again, IMO, Andy needs to leave PC.  He's biased, petty, vindictive and although he ACTS like a real journalist...he then posts private emails, and stories about Ion without bothering to verify facts first?  Some journalist Andy.

George Broussard, 3D Realms
#8 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-07-13 00:17:27
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
#3 is correct, Valve scrapped the Mac version of HL for whatever reasons, and the Linux version wasn't even planned.

-PainKilleR-[CE]
#9 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-13 00:17:54
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
/me picks up bargepole and prods topic


not going to be a linux DNF


fair enough


I _bet_ you that there _will_ be a Linux Server for the multiplayer element....



and since Epic already have a *nix code base and 3DR now have Brandon, it _should_ be relatively simple (like me)



but um, Im not comfortable with the 2nd part of the email.  Then again it could be one of Georges infamous wind ups....


Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "Botswana"
2000-07-13 00:18:00
Mother#$@!#%#@

My bad, I'm at work looking at page after page of code. Even after reading it a 2nd time though, I swear this post switches gears midstream.

First of all, 3D Realms opinion of anyone affiliated with this site is irrelevant unless they are overtly doing something to affect it.


Second, while I am a big supporter of Linux, criticizing a company for making a business decision seems a little odd when it seems like it is solid.

A Linux port is likely to be more trouble than it is worth. Sadly, we no longer live in an age where porting to multiple platforms is the norm. (Keeping in mind, I come from the Apple/IBM/Commodore/Platform-of-the-day generation of computer gaming) Porting is something of a lost art, even though we have always had at least 2 different platforms at any given time.

It is a shame, since Linux requires fewer resources, is more stable, and you can crash a program without losing your whole operating system, but it still needs a lot of work before it is truly ready for mainstream. And before the Linux Fanatics attack, I AM a Linux user and believer, I just understand the limitations since I am also a programmer.

I think 3D Realms is in the right on this.
#11 by "Andy"
2000-07-13 00:18:06
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#3</b>, Stickerboy:
<QUOTE>
Whaaaaat? Valve with a Linux version of Half-life? I'm a HL (well, TFC) nut, and the only Linux version I know of is the dedicated server.
</QUOTE>
Eek, am I wrong about this? I don't play Half-Life nowadays but I was sure I remember there being a Linux client.

My apologies if I'm wrong.
<QUOTE>
And Epic is having trouble porting Unreal over to Linux, last I heard, which is why they decided to Open Source parts of it.
</QUOTE>
But at least they've tried, I'm sure Linux users appreciate that.
#12 by "BarneyQue"
2000-07-13 00:22:02
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
Can't say I worried about gaming on linux.  I have a token linux box here, on some of my old equipment.  I also have a nice desk with a built in CD rack.  There's currently 40 games in there. (Pathetic eh?).   Untill Linux has a good shot at running them all, there's no point in making a linux edition of games.  It's going to take a monumental shift in the market to game a big switch like that.  The games I have tried to play under, simply required more work than the game was fun.  Forget it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#13 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-13 00:23:34
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
chicken and egg

no one will write games until theres a good Linux marked

and there wont be a linux market for games, without games



actually, to annoy some weenies, Id predict you wont ever see a linux games market bar the odd port, due to the rabid community they have ;)



DS<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#14 by "Baytor"
2000-07-13 00:25:22
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>Andy:</b>
<i>But at least they've tried, I'm sure Linux users appreciate that. </i>

So, 3DR should pour money down the Linux drain, while Epic, the creator of the game engine couldn't do it.

Yeah, that's a sound business decision :)

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#15 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-07-13 00:27:37
tc10@st-andrews.spamanddiemotherbitches.ac.uk http://www.fisty.com/~tom
George and others:
How is that a private email? Our best guess from the content is that it wasn't written to be sent to Andy - but you sent it to him anyway. Sending it to someone to whom it wasn't directly written would seem to me to make it a public email. If you fucked up... well, 'oh dearie me.'
Now, if you <i>didn't</i> fuck up, then it would appear that you did it deliberately (best guess, to try to lure Andy in to posting it, and using that as an excuse to publically berate him) - in which case your public (read: your customers) deserve to know about it, because it's just plain low, if not even immoral.
#16 by "George Broussard"
2000-07-13 00:30:45
georgeb@3drealms.com
Tom,

Sigh...

}}}How is that a private email? Our best guess from the content is that it wasn't written to be sent to Andy - but you sent it to him anyway. Sending it to someone to whom it wasn't directly written would seem to me to make it a public email. If you fucked up... well, 'oh dearie me.'

Oh well...if you can't see how it's wrong to post private emails, then I can't help you.  And for the record the 1st one was directly to Andy.  I guess I'll add "PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL AND NOT FOR PUBLICATION" on all my emails.

too bad Blue, Scary, Loony, Billy Wilson, Evil Avater and everyone else have the decency to keep communications private.

(shrug)

I don't care that Andy posted, and I don't take any of it back.  But you as readers of PC should just understand what kind of person and journalist Andy is.

Rock on Andy.

George Broussard, 3D Realms
#17 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-07-13 00:31:11
rhiggi@home.com
Hmmm, its dirty laundry but I can't say I have a problem with Andy posting "private" email... cause well, I dont think its private.

Andy reqests an official comment about a story and he gets two responses.  It was an error by GB, so what, it was still a response to an business question.  In the context some people are complaining that Andy doesn't check with all the parties before writing a story, its very valid as it illustrates motive (not like we didn't know though ;) ).

Personally, I never write anything to anyone that I would worry about being public knowledge.  "Trust Noone" and all that.

V

"Trust is Good, Control is Better"
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#18 by "Andy"
2000-07-13 00:31:32
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#7</b>, George Broussard:
<QUOTE>
Wow Andy! Posting PRIVATE emails now? I hope to hell all the PC fans REALLY see what a petty person you are now! You have ZERO credibility IMO.
</QUOTE>
You and Scott constantly post messages here to try and discredit me, and you act like it's because I'm biased against you.

Then you accidentally send me a message saying that I'm "extremely hated" at 3DR. Of course I'm going to post it.

It shows who is REALLY biased: You.

It shows why you want to discredit me: Not because I'm wrong, or because I have something against 3DR, but simply because you personally dislike me.

Posting that message was 100% the right thing to do.
#19 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-07-13 00:33:29
tc10@st-andrews.spamanddiemotherbitches.ac.uk http://www.fisty.com/~tom
<quote>Oh well...if you can't see how it's wrong to post private emails, then I can't help you.</quote>
Of course I can see how it's wrong to post private emails - I just don't believe that the email Andy posted was private, by virtue of you either having fucked up in the sending, or deliberately sent it to try to generate an opportunity to discredit him.
It's half-eleven, I'm knackered, I'm <i>not</i> about to get involved in a flame-scuffle over this; good night.
#20 by "George Broussard"
2000-07-13 00:33:56
georgeb@3drealms.com
Andy,

}}}Then you accidentally send me a message saying that I'm "extremely hated" at 3DR. Of course I'm going to post it.
It shows who is REALLY biased: You.

The difference (and please follow me) is that we CAN be biased!  We're not journalists posting news on a web site!  Imagine that?

}}}Posting that message was 100% the right thing to do.

I expect nothing less from you Andy.  But your journalist peers in the world outclass you by miles.

Funny to watch you turn this into "Poor Andy".

George Broussard, 3D Realms
#21 by "Andy"
2000-07-13 00:36:36
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#14</b>, Baytor:
<QUOTE>
So, 3DR should pour money down the Linux drain, while Epic, the creator of the game engine couldn't do it.
</QUOTE>
No, I think from a business angle, it's the right thing to do. In the short term, at least. Long term... who knows? The "just for the hell of it" form of support hasn't done Id any harm, has it? :)

I'm not calling 3DR on it. I'm not saying they're wrong. The worst I'm saying is that it's just a shame. Ya know, "ah well", *shrug*.

Truth be told, I'm not all that interested in the subject. I just thought other people would want it covered here.
#22 by "Botswana"
2000-07-13 00:37:56
Belive it or not, even though my 2nd response was #10, I actually started to reply within 5 minutes of my original post. Shows you how fast this one is growing.

I'm not overly impressed with the conduct of Mr. Broussard at times, but nevertheless I still cannot figure out why the original topic went from

"Greedy 3D Realms refuses to release Linux port to the wrethced masses"

to

"Bastards at 3D Realms blatantly admit hatred for beloved PlanetCrap staff member"

Really, it seems weak also, to say that Epic has tried and the Linux community appreciates that. Yes, kind of how I appreciate Sierra trying to develop a Babylon 5 game and dropping it when the marketing weenies decided it wasn't profitable. As a Linux user, Epic's efforts have yielded me nothing.

If anyone begins to release games for Linux that <i>I actually play</i> I will be willing to fork over cash money for them and the "open-sourced everything for free" attitude of the Linux community be damned!

In the meantime, while <b>SOME</b> FPS shooters have multiple ports, others have been very platform specific. How many people played Marathon on the PC? Oops, that was Mac only. By the time Wolfenstein 3D was ported to the Mac, Doom was out on PC (if memory serves correctly, and it rarely does)

This really looks like a <i>must criticize....3D Realms...for something...insults directed....at me...ego strained....</i>
#23 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-07-13 00:38:24
tc10@st-andrews.spamanddiemotherbitches.ac.uk http://www.fisty.com/~tom
<quote>The difference (and please follow me) is that we CAN be biased! We're not journalists posting news on a web site! Imagine that?</quote>
Yes, you can be biased - provided you are biased in an individual capacity. If you and your cronies are going to post here with '3d Realms' tacked on to your sig (or worse, your user name), you should expect your words to be taken as company line - and I don't believe it's goo business practice to have an official company stance of 'hating' an individual writer.
My last words on the matter until tomorrow.
#24 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-13 00:39:11
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
the admins at PC are journalists ?



whoa, news to me.




/me returns to being a standard computer geekoid who likes debating



Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#25 by "Baytor"
2000-07-13 00:42:44
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>Andy:</b>
I've seen you make a mountain over a molehill so many times, it gets to be a bit riduculous after a while.

Do you remember when you were blasting Epic for daring to call Unreal Tournament a single player game?  Imagine, you seemed to be saying, all those stupid, ignorant gaming fools who were suckered by Epic's evil marketing department into buying what is essentially a multiplayer game.  

Guess what?  That game has been on my hard drive since I bought it, and I've never played it on-line.  And lots of other people have gotten a blast out of the single player game.

Are some of your topics worthy of discussion?  Sure.  There's lots of disgusting little things companies will try to put over on consumers, but more often than not, the company is trying to make a really good game, and is doing whatever it can afford to do to make sure their customers are happy.

I can well imagine why George Broussard is fed up with you.  Most of us here will say that 3D Realms is one of the good guys. Sure, they don't know how to put a game out in a timely fashion, but they've done right by us in the past, and we trust them to do right by us in the future.  Until he does something major to dispel that trust, people are going to defend him over you any day.

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#26 by "Andy"
2000-07-13 00:46:29
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#20</b>, George Broussard:
<QUOTE>
The difference (and please follow me) is that we CAN be biased! We're not journalists posting news on a web site! Imagine that?
</QUOTE>
No, but you post comments like this:
<quote>
I plead with everyone to flee PC, or ask that Andy be removed from it.
</quote>
In the past, you've always acted like you don't want me at PC because I "ruin the site", or something like that. Now people know (instead of just guessing) that it's really because you don't like me. So you can carry on saying whatever you want about me, but now people know the truth.

Remember, *my* only bias, as far as PlanetCrap subjects are concerned, is against Monolith, and everybody knows about that because <b>I've told them</b>. So when I write something about Monolith, people know that I'm biased.

Nobody knew about <b>your</b> bias until you got your e-mails muddled up. You acted all innocent and played the victim.
<QUOTE>
Funny to watch you turn this into "Poor Andy".
</QUOTE>
Whatever. ;-)
#27 by "Speed"
2000-07-13 00:49:11
speed@pandora.be http://fragland.net
I'm not gonna comment on the "andy posting personal email" stuff since that's besides the point I think.
The main point is that DNF will PROBABLY (there's still a chance) not be ported to Linux.
On that I do want to comment :
That the main game is not going to be available as a linux version is a decision I can understand since there are still not so many linux users (about 90% - if not more - out there still use windows) but I would defenitely regret it if there would not be a server port for Linux.
Most game servers out there run on Linux (including Fragland's) because it takes less cpu and is more stable.
Not having a linux server port would mean that for instance Fragland (as one example) wouldn't start up a server for DNF and I would find that to be a pitty.

Speed
Fragland.net
#28 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-13 00:50:22
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<quote>Hmmm, its dirty laundry but I can't say I have a problem with Andy posting "private" email... cause well, I dont think its private. </quote>

It was sent from one person to another person (or persons).  How does this not make it private, AKA : for the people's eyes it was sent to only?  I'm curious ...

People arbitrarily deciding which emails are private and which ones aren't brings some privacy issues to mind ...

Any time I send someone an email, I'm running under the assumption that's a private communication between me and that person.  Is this not correct?  I think it is ...

It doesn't matter if I CC someone by accident.  All that means is that the person I CC'd gets to see email they shouldn't have.  It doesn't throw the email into the public domain and allow that person to run around doing whatever they want with the contents.

Someone want to prove me wrong on this?
#29 by "Speed"
2000-07-13 00:51:43
speed@pandora.be http://fragland.net
To Warren and George : I see your point, and I don't see why Andy had to post that personal mail here since that's totally besides the point of the topic

Speed
Fragland.net
#30 by "Baytor"
2000-07-13 00:52:07
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>Andy:</b>
<i>No, I think from a business angle, it's the right thing to do.</i>

The only reason I've forgiven Monolith for their crappy support of Blood 2, is because from a business angle, it was the correct decision.  I'm still a bit pissed at them for saying, "Sure, we can do Blood 2 in 11 months," but I'm trying not to harp on that--this is me trying not to harp, imagine if I weren't trying :)

There is no economically viable reason for 3DR to port D4E to Linux.  It's a lot of expense for very little gain.  Any company which expends a lot of resources for no gain will find itself no longer a company in the near future.

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#31 by "12xu"
2000-07-13 00:53:46
mswitzer@insync.net http://http;//www.hichouston.org
<b>#26</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>In the past, you've always acted like you don't want me at PC because I "ruin
the site", or something like that. Now people know (instead of just guessing)
that it's really because you don't like me. So you can carry on saying whatever
you want about me, but now people know the truth.
</QUOTE>

hmmm...you think they might not like you becasue he thinks you ruin the site?

It's not like the e-mail says we hate andy for no reason whatsoever...

or

we hate andy because he smells funny....


the reasons george lists in the e-mail are exactly the sort of things he has been saying to you publicly on this site for some time...



I think you are the only one who it surprises that you are not one of his (or other 3dr employees) favorite people...


12xu
out

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#32 by "Speed"
2000-07-13 00:54:52
speed@pandora.be http://fragland.net
Baytor : people want to be able to play games online more and more.
Not making a linux server port for a game is making sure that ALOT of game server admins won't run your game.
I hardly think this is good for bussiness.
About client linux version I totally agree, but server port to linux is almost a must in my eyes
#33 by "Baytor"
2000-07-13 01:01:46
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>Speed:</b>
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they just talking about a commercial Linux version--I think a server port is a different entity.

George, if you're reading, a clarification would be nice.

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "Speed"
2000-07-13 01:09:14
speed@pandora.be http://fragland.net
Clarification would indeed be nice :)
#35 by "George Broussard"
2000-07-13 01:18:46
georgeb@3drealms.com
Speed, Baytor,

}}}Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they just talking about a commercial Linux version--I think a server port is a different entity.

A server would be nice.  We can't commit to it yet, but it's been an issue for awhile and we understand the need for it.  We have something else in mind that may alleviate the need for such a thing, but we won't know about that for a few months.

I don't know if we'd do a Linux server prior to release or not.  Would depend on programming resources and how difficult a task it was.

George Broussard, 3D Realms
#36 by "crash"
2000-07-13 01:31:20
crash@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
hmm. so what we have here, topic-wise, is:

<b>1. DNF ain't bein ported to linux cos it's not profitable for 3DR to do so.</b>

okay, a bit of a surprise (see above posts for Unreal linux ports and etc for rationale of why it's kind of a surprise), but last i checked, most game companies are in business to make money by making games. and carefully note the order that was in; it wasn't accidental. so a port to a marginal, unprofitable platform is being abandoned because it's not cost effective and isn't worth the return on investment. ok. that's a news blurb, and not a whole hell of a lot more. basically, *yawn*.

<b>2. Most of 3DR, according to George, hates Andy, and George in particular thinks he's clueless.</b>

uh. does this come as a surprise to <i>anyone</i> with a frontal lobe that reads the 'crapper? sure, it's never been put out quite so bluntly, but jesus christ, it's the least interesting part of the whole post. "So in short? Sky's blue, sun rises in the east. Just so you know my opinion." that's about the obviousness of that whole thing. *yawn*.

<b>3. Andy posting the whole thing in the first place.</b>

yes, Andy, now you have proof that George hates you. like you needed it. like <i>anyone</i> needed it. but now you have your vindication, i guess, so when you go to grind your 3DR axe One More Time, we can all step back and say, "Why, no, he isn't doing it because it's personal."

personal opinion? the martyrdom is boring. also, taking it to a personal level will now completely discredit anything and everything you ever write about 3DR ever again.

which, if i ascribed Machiavellian attributes to George "No You Can't See The Goddamned Game Yet" Broussard :) would be a fucking <i>brilliant</i> "mistaken" sent mail. and if that were the case, i'm in awe--not only got 3DR off the PC hook like forever, but also played Andy like a fiddle. if it were just an accident, tho... well, whoops, i guess.

and, uh, well, i guess that's it. been a long day here.

<i>disclaimer: the opinions presented here are my own, not my employer's.</i><I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#37 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-07-13 01:42:38
rhiggi@home.com
<b>#36</b> "crash" wrote...
<QUOTE>personal opinion? the martyrdom is boring. also, taking it to a personal level
will now completely discredit anything and everything you ever write about 3DR
ever again.

</QUOTE>

Um.. it also discredits anything 3DR says.  Works both ways.

V<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#38 by "Andy"
2000-07-13 01:46:11
andy@planetcrap.com
crash,

Please explain how I have made it personal.
#39 by "crash"
2000-07-13 01:50:40
crash@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<i>Please explain how I have made it personal.</i>

okay. was thinking about it, and it came down to this:

because i think it did, based on what i've seen, not just in that post, but over time.

and if i attempt to justify it, we'll argue back and forth about how my reasons aren't valid, or i'm imaginging things, or how i'm full of shit, or how you've got a persecution complex, or how this and how that, for about 50 posts. so let's just say i think it's personal, you think it isn't, agree to disagree, and move on. sound good?

because that's what'll eventually end up happening anyway. we've been down this road before.

<i>disclaimer: see #36 above.</i><I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#40 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-07-13 01:52:52
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com
The thing about Linux is that no one really cares about it in any significant sense, but it is highly symbolic...so you can feel free to write games that don't support it, just don't say you aren't going to support it. :)
#41 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-07-13 01:54:38
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com
There will certainly be a Duke Linux dedicated server.  The issue here is the client.
#42 by "Paul"
2000-07-13 01:59:49
pab05f@mizzou.edu http://www.planethalflife.com/aerotic
If I was in Andy position, I would not have posted the email in question.

Speaking from an avid fan of journalism, I have found the best journalists take a 3rd person view in reporting a story. They do not make it personal. Then again, I'm not sure if this site is about journalism? Is it? Posting private emails?

When it becomes personal, maybe that author should step back and stop writing on that topic. Seems like the responsible thing to do to me.

We can all draw our own personal lines in the sand, but my line's been crossed before, and appears to have been crossed again.

Hey Morn,
When will planetcrap become about games, instead of turning into personal wars?

- Paul
#43 by "Paul"
2000-07-13 02:01:13
pab05f@mizzou.edu http://www.planethalflife.com/aerotic
should have said "speaking as" doh!
#44 by "Andy"
2000-07-13 02:07:30
andy@planetcrap.com
crash,

I have no personal bias against 3D Realms or anyone who works there.
#45 by "George Broussard"
2000-07-13 02:07:56
georgeb@3drealms.com
<quote>but now you have your vindication, i guess, so when you go to grind your 3DR axe One More Time, we can all step back and say, "Why, no, he isn't doing it because it's personal."
personal opinion? the martyrdom is boring. also, taking it to a personal level will now completely discredit anything and everything you ever write about 3DR ever again. </quote>

Crash is a genious.  And not just cause he agrees with me ;)

<quote>Hey Morn,
When will planetcrap become about games, instead of turning into personal wars? </quote>

When Andy is removed from Planet Crap.

<quote>There will certainly be a Duke Linux dedicated server. The issue here is the client. </quote>

Brandon, never commit to anything.  Rule #1 ;)  We will "try".  

But if anyone will push it here, it will be Brandon and he'll forgoe sleep to make it happen I bet.

I wonder if the /quote stuff worked? ;)

George Broussard, 3D Realms
#46 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-07-13 02:08:21
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com
<QUOTE>
Remember that 3DR recently hired Brandon Reinhart, who did the Linux port of Unreal, so they've already have someone on the staff who is capable of doing it.
</QUOTE>

The reason Epic did the full Linux port of the Unreal Tournament client was preparation for the Playstation 2.  (And proof of engine portability.)

3D Realms isn't going to do an in-house Linux port, that's for damn sure.  Its possible we could look at Loki down the road, but right now its not a priority.

That doesn't mean there won't be a dedicated server though.  That's pretty much a given.
#47 by "Charlie Wiederhold"
2000-07-13 02:13:11
charliew@3drealms.com
It would be nice to contract someone to port DNF to linux after it's done if it seems technically feasible. I don't write the checks though, and if you ask me whether I want it to come out of my royalties, I'll be quick to say "Hell no... I'd rather have that new Britney Spears CD!!!".

If we don't have a linux server though, that would pretty much suck in my opinion, but I'm just a brush monkey.

----

When thinking about someone's bias, people shouldn't wonder if they have a bias or not (most of us do whether we like it or not, if we don't it's probably because we don't have any experience with the subject), but more *why* they have that bias and <b>how they use it</b>. Is there a reason that person has for disliking (Monolith / 3D Realms / Andy / Britney Spears / My Shorts and Socks)? Not if you agree with that reason, but do they have a reason. Or are they simply holding the bias to be a jerk?

I think the most shocking thing about this entire topic is that George thinks Andy is smart and a good writer!! Everything else everyone already knew. Why do we always focus on the negative? Come on people, a little positive feedback comes out and all we do is harp on what's wrong with us!! I wanna hold hands and hum.

Charlie Wiederhold
#48 by "crash"
2000-07-13 02:14:38
crash@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Andy (44):
<i>I have no personal bias against 3D Realms or anyone who works there.</i>

okay.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#49 by "Stickerboy"
2000-07-13 02:35:58
jclee@ou.edu
Kum Bai Yah my Looooooord
Kuuum Bai Yaaaaaaaaah

Kum BAI YAAAAH MY LOOOO *erp**cough*

Ahem.  Maybe not.  I'll just hand the mic over to our motivational speaker Rodney King...
#50 by "Apache"
2000-07-13 02:41:23
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
It's my understanding that Brandon left Epic because he wanted to delve into the world of gameplay oriented programming, like Steven Polge of Epic Games. Having him do the Linux port would sort of defeat the purpose of moving to 3DR, you know?

While this is an interesting and valid topic, I think that posting a private email exchange is not really a good idea. (God knows I've recieved a few of them myself.) Unless both parties understand that the mail is for public consumption, it's really not a cool thing to do.
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