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The Market Today Shows the Dollar is Strong Against the Simoleon
January 11th 2004, 03:11 CET by Jibble

This could be both very good and very bad for online gaming.

Should online games in the future provide a user-driven legal system to keep things in line?  Will publishers of online titles suddenly be forced to face the reality that people are making money off their games rather than the other way around?  Will there be a massive insurgence of lawsuits against this new online cash exchange?  How about a massive insurgence of lawsuits against publishers of buggy games?  Should gamers have the rights to their online possessions (including the rights to sell them) just because they've poured hours into the game?

Food for thought.
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Home » Topic: The Market Today Shows the Dollar is Strong Against the Simoleon

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#1 by jungleB0y
2004-01-11 03:15:01
Wow! I clicked "NO, IT SUCKS" and instantly I was redirected to the front page with it as the new topic?!? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
#2 by jungleB0y
2004-01-11 03:15:49
FP & SP btw.
#3 by Squeaky
2004-01-11 03:20:02
third post fucknuts!

#4 by Squeaky
2004-01-11 03:20:19
#1 jungleB0y
Wow! I clicked "NO, IT SUCKS" and instantly I was redirected to the front page with it as the new topic?!? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

is the new 'first post'?

#5 by Greg
2004-01-11 03:21:16
So, how about the football playoffs? Carolina beat St. Louis, that was actually pretty surprising. St. Louis had to come back to force overtime, but they ended up losing.

Thoughts?

<Gabe> Who are you people talking to? I love 1.0.32.
#6 by Squeaky
2004-01-11 03:21:29
If publishers could find a way to take a percentage of these transactions, they'd do very well for themself.

#7 by Duality
2004-01-11 03:49:25
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
Would it be better to have the company in charge of the data as the escrot or a third party?  What would be more or less secure?  Which is more or less law suit-prone?

Today, you dance for Bailey's amusement.
#8 by G-Man
2004-01-11 03:56:10
Any topic on this subject that doesn't include a link to anything written by Julian Dibbell automatically sucks.
#9 by Squeaky
2004-01-11 04:20:30
#8 G-Man
Any topic on this subject that doesn't include a link to anything written by Julian Dibbell automatically sucks.

well, I guess it doesn't suck anymore now does it?

#10 by yotsuya
2004-01-11 04:31:15
Greg-

It was a great win for Carolina. I hate the Rams, so I watched with interest and was very happy with how the game ended.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#11 by Bailey
2004-01-11 05:04:22
Squeaky

Nothing has changed.

Life without shame.
#12 by Charles
2004-01-11 05:14:15
www.bluh.org
Wow! I clicked "NO, IT SUCKS" and instantly I was redirected to the front page with it as the new topic?!? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?


Go back to genmay.

<Gabe> My indifference is palpable!
#13 by Charles
2004-01-11 05:15:01
www.bluh.org
#5 by Greg
sports blather


DENIED.  Successful hijacks only happen on the fourth post.

<Gabe> My indifference is palpable!
#14 by yotsuya
2004-01-11 05:21:37
Charles-

Don't you have a video game you should be playing or something?

Greg-

Are you watching the Tennessee game? This one is pretty interesting. Let's see what the Titan's do. I'm hoping they win this one, as I wanted them to take the Super Bowl against the Rams a while back. I dunno, the Pats are tough. And man, it looks COLD.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#15 by jafd
2004-01-11 05:30:48
[sports]My current league pool sure is shitty. The only on-color artifact destruction I have is a Goblin Replica.[/sports]

Ask me about your mother.
#16 by yotsuya
2004-01-11 05:31:27
Bummer. So close. I hope tomorrow's games are as good.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#17 by yotsuya
2004-01-11 05:32:14
BTW, I like the Eagles and the Colts tomorrow. I think we'll see an Eagles/Pats Super Bowl.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#18 by yotsuya
2004-01-11 05:33:41
Shaddar-

Did you catch the Coyotes/Wild game on TV yesterday?

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#19 by Sgt Hulka
2004-01-11 05:41:42
Jennifer Anniston is on SNL tonight (Blah), but is the studio really that cold?  Damn!

All you need to understand is everything you know is wrong.
#20 by ProStyle
2004-01-11 05:52:55
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
KC baybee

Will publishers of online titles suddenly be forced to face the reality that people are making money off their games rather than the other way around?


The universe would implode inward upon itself a billion times if we ever see such a thing. Now, I'm talking about farming of generic content and that sort of thing - not saying talented or well-executed individuals cannot/do  not justifiably profit from certain situations relating to any sort of video game.

I'm like a quote out of context...
#21 by G-Man
2004-01-11 06:12:51
Sgt Hulka in #19 said:
Jennifer Anniston is on SNL tonight (Blah), but is the studio really that cold?  Damn!
I appreciate nipples as much as any man, but you really don't want to associate yourself with Jennifer Aniston fans.
#22 by Eric T. Cheng
2004-01-11 06:19:37
erictcheng@hotmail.com
I appreciate nipples as much as any man, but you really don't want to associate yourself with Jennifer Aniston fans.


Says the guy who knew where to look for Jennifer Aniston forums...

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
DVD Collection
GameGossip.com
#23 by G-Man
2004-01-11 06:20:37
No messageboard is free from my influence.

You are just jealous of my link-fu.
#24 by chris
2004-01-11 06:36:11
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.cerebraldebris.com
GO PATS!

-chris
#25 by Bailey
2004-01-11 06:52:40
Patting your bottom, urging you off to bed.

Life without shame.
#26 by crash
2004-01-11 07:01:25
Duality:

Would it be better to have the company in charge of the data as the escrot or a third party?  What would be more or less secure?  Which is more or less law suit-prone?

Depends on how you define "better." Either way you slice it, your customer service costs are going to skyrocket, as will your legal burden. On top of that, you'd have the whole issue of how to categorize/rate objects to determine intrinsic and dollar value.

On the latter, for instance: In AC, there's a third-party app called "Bandit Sight." What this app does is "grade" the relative "uberness" of weapons based on an algorithm. It does this by calculating how many modifications a given weapon can have; what the base stats are for damage, attack mods, and defense mods; and any "stat-boosting" spells it has on it that increase the "maximum" base damage or modifiers. This lets the player know, on a relative and objective scale, how "good" any given piece of weapon loot is.

So what's the value? If a weapon scores 80%, 85%, 90%, 95%, how much is it worth in dollars? How much is it worth in dollars if it started 80% but a player modified it to 85%? What happens if it blows up when a player tries to modify it further? Can the player buy insurance for it? If not, why not? How much does that cost? How does the player file a claim? How is the loss documented? How is the loss researched? How much time will the company have to replace the item? How about if the item gets eaten by a bug? If the player gives it away but reports it stolen? If the server crashes, or exploits force a rollback, how is the company going to prove a player didn't have an item he's claiming he got in the time the rollback happened? How is the company going to deal with shared accounts, account cracking, ebay sales? Who's responsible for the sale if the seller doesn't follow through with a sale or trade? How do you prove the seller is who he says he is? How about the buyer?

And on the item replacement thing: Many game companies are wising up to the "lost item" claims, and are not giving their admins the ability to create items at all. (UO learned this one the hard way.) And if they do have the ability to create items at will, that opens a whole other field of employment layer--who watches the watchers? Because if items are worth real money, and there are select people that can create items at will... doesn't take a genius to figure out how that's gonna work. If virtual items are going to be worth real money, all of the real-world physical-item rules are pretty much going to have to apply. Modified, to be sure, but they'll have to apply. Or the EULA's going to be 95 pages of legalese. Or both. Not to mention the whole "secure server" issue.

Too much headache, too little payoff.

And yes, I can smell the scrollwheels burning right now.

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE
#27 by Dethstryk
2004-01-11 08:04:27
jemartin@tcainternet.com
The obvious solution is to populate the world with nothing but SOJ's to devalue them to the little kekekeke motherfuckers.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#28 by Terata
2004-01-11 08:22:13
The big customer service issue that comes up with sales of this type is when somebody's cheated.  "I bought a Long Sword of Slaying on eBay for $40 and he didn't give it to me!" or "I bought this account then he reported it stolen and took it back!" and so on.  That's the big thing you'd avoid if you handled everything internally, and as a bonus you'd be able to charge charge a fee for the service.

Whether you're really better off in the long term is a whole other matter.  Officially saying anything other than "don't do that" leads to questions like are you responsible for lost income when the server crashes and the last ten minutes aren't saved... which is troublesome.
#29 by Greg
2004-01-11 08:40:15
Yot, I would not be adverse to seeing an Eagles/Pats Super Bowl, either. Eagles vs Pats or Colts is fine with me, though Eagles/Chiefs would have the whole Vermeil bit.

<Gabe> Who are you people talking to? I love 1.0.32.
#30 by Post-It
2004-01-11 09:07:06
keithlee@speakeasy.net
Stupid ass Patriots. They are just such a bland team. I find very little dynamic or exciting about them. They are very consistent and methodical, a coach's dream, yet they are boring to watch. Not to mention that the Titans are the closest thing AL will probably ever get to a Pro team; so pttthhh!! Guess it's back to rooting for the Pack. I'm hoping for a Pack/Patriot Super Bowl now. My roomate and I are having a bunch of people over for the games later; grilling out, football, beers...should be fun.

Also, pounders of Beck's rock the house down, fo' shizzle, etc. whatever all that stuff means.

Comment Signature
#31 by Gunp01nt
2004-01-11 14:04:28
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Will publishers of online titles suddenly be forced to face the reality that people are making money off their games rather than the other way around?


In that case, what would the motivation be for the publisher to release the game? Also, should publishers/developers not be allowed to have a choice in whether they allow players to make money off the game? Because if players can make money off of playing a game, aren't there tax issues involved?

Should gamers have the rights to their online possessions (including the rights to sell them) just because they've poured hours into the game?


Good question, and I think: no. There's nothing wrong with a publisher making the choice to give players the rights to their virtual possessions, but I don't think it should be mandatory for a publisher to give away the rights of the things players amass. Issues such as: the IP (names, images and stats of items aren't made by the players in most MMORPG's), and where to draw the line, come up.

If people should be allowed to make money off their user accounts or items they found, because they stand for a certain amount of time invested in the game, shouldn't the same also go for high scores?
Then again, I never heard anyone demand that their Monopoly-houses and hotels get turned into actual real estate on the locations where they bought them in the game.

"We need to eliminate redundant trolls and consolidate our trolling interests into one streamlined mega-troll."
-Bailey
#32 by m0nty
2004-01-11 15:16:56
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Gee, this topic looks familiar.
#33 by Duality
2004-01-11 15:51:06
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
crash

So what about companies taking a hands-off, do-at-your-own-risk approach?  I haven't kept up with PIGs, but is this what they're doing now, or are they still trying to get rid of the auctions and whatnot?

Today, you dance for Bailey's amusement.
#34 by Creole Ned
2004-01-11 15:54:57
You've been Jibble'd.

Also, I agree with everything crash said. The whole idea is nothing more than a giant headache for publishers with very little reward for the hassle. It's not going to fly in any significant way. We'll just see the usual ebay auctions and things like that, as we do now. EOD!

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#35 by Creole Ned
2004-01-11 15:56:10
I was, of course, referring to m0nty being Jibble'd, not Duality. Perhaps one day he can hope for the same.

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#36 by lwf
2004-01-11 16:05:24
I don't think he has enough beds to Jibble everyone.

You think this guy was on a permanent vacation
But no he's not, he's a secret agent
#37 by Duality
2004-01-11 16:16:13
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
I don't post enough conversation-starters to be Jibble'd. :(

Also on the sports line ...

Paul Molitor has chose to be inducted in the Hall of Fame as a Brewer.  I think that is just one of the coolest things anyone could do.  Molitor was the end of real classic baseball in Milwaukee and I'm very surprised at his choice, considering how he was treated by the Brewers owners/GM when he left.

Today, you dance for Bailey's amusement.
#38 by The_Joker
2004-01-11 17:30:11
http://www.jackinworld.com
hehehehehehe

more here

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#39 by Duality
2004-01-11 17:32:12
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
That's what passes for funny?  Even PA doesn't rely on the shock value of cursing that much.

Today, you dance for Bailey's amusement.
#40 by Warren Marshall
2004-01-11 17:33:28
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#39 Duality
That's what passes for funny?  Even PA doesn't rely on the shock value of cursing that much.

No, they just curse so much that it loses all value.

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Canít Handle Femur"
#41 by LPMiller
2004-01-11 17:37:42
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Cursing never loses value, heathen.

And happy goddamn birthday to me.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#42 by m0nty
2004-01-11 17:40:16
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
OK, so I was trawling through those doctored Dilberts, and I come to the Japanese one. I think to myself: "Now that goes too far." Now I'm feeling paranoid that the horrors of the Intarweb has weakened my threshold for offensive content so far that there are some outrages I am not phased by any more. Then I read the Jewish one and was comforted by the fact that anti-Semitism still makes me angry.
#43 by m0nty
2004-01-11 17:41:24
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Happy motherfucking birthday, LP! Word to your cocksucking mother!
#44 by jjohnsen
2004-01-11 17:42:29
http://www.johnsenclan.com
hehehehehehe

more here


Somebody is seriously having questions about their sexuality.  I haven't seen someone us the word faggot that much since junior high.
#45 by Creole Ned
2004-01-11 18:25:33
Happy @!##*&% birthday, LP.

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#46 by deadlock
2004-01-11 18:37:22
http://www.deadlocked.org/
#38 The_Joker

Welcome to 1999, Joker.

ridicule is nothing to be scared of
#47 by Jibble
2004-01-11 18:39:29
#32 m0nty
Gee, this topic looks familiar.

This is an extension of that topic, as it relates to more than just Second Life.  Don't like it?  Write your own.

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation I ask, "What Would Jesus Do?"  And always a little voice inside me answers, "Well, he probably wouldn't try to cram *another* corpse into the crawl-space, moron."
#48 by Jibble
2004-01-11 18:46:23
#38 The_Joker

I've a new go-to image for posts like these.

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation I ask, "What Would Jesus Do?"  And always a little voice inside me answers, "Well, he probably wouldn't try to cram *another* corpse into the crawl-space, moron."
#49 by Bailey
2004-01-11 19:03:02
That's ideal Jibble, but you might have to doctor the date a bit farther back to apply to Joker's link.

Life without shame.
#50 by chris
2004-01-11 19:06:01
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.cerebraldebris.com
Anyone else here read the new Dark Tower book? I bought it at 10:00 on Friday night, and finished it at 5:30am today (I am largely unable to put down a book once I start reading it), and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm curious what other people's thoughts are, since web reviews are mixed, and I have friends who strongly disliked it.

-chris
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