PlanetCrap 6.0!
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (2) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
T O P I C
How long before this is true in the US?
December 22nd 2003, 12:34 CET by Matt Perkins

Ever lose something because of a hacker in EQ?  Didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling from Verant's, "It's our world, just take it and shut up." policy?

This case is the first sign I've seen of the companies being held responsible, not the gamer.

You spend hours (some people thousands of them) building up your character, collecting virtual possessions, money, etc...  Your account gets hacked.  You're lost at that point.  That's it.  There is no recourse.  The same is true if it is due to a game bug or a server crash that has to go back weeks, etc.

Is that wrong?  I think so.  Will things like Second Life and their copyright policy or the afore mentioned court case change this?  I hope so.

Am I way off here?  Is it "just a game", so no matter what happens, you should just accept it?  They virtual things after all, they don't really exist...or do they.
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: How long before this is true in the US?

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
#1 by deadlock
2003-12-22 12:34:34
http://www.deadlocked.org/
IT WAS ME!!!!!!!

Anyway, don't know what to think of this; companies just suck I guess. Also, MMORPGs.

ridicule is nothing to be scared of
#2 by E-ph0nk
2003-12-22 12:58:49
http://www.electrophonk.be
Hey, they owe you nothing right?!

*sigh*
#3 by Gunp01nt
2003-12-22 13:20:27
supersimon33@hotmail.com
They virtual things after all, they don't really exist...or do they.

On one side, Photoshop files, Word documents,... are all virtual but they do represent some value and in some cases are worth money.

On the other side: you don't buy games as a professional design application. Games are made and bought for entertainment. Otherwise, why put the whole game world around it and not make it a WYSIWYG application instead?
Just because some fools are willing to pay real money for characters or items, doesn't really give them the right to own those things.

"We need to eliminate redundant trolls and consolidate our trolling interests into one streamlined mega-troll."
-Bailey
#4 by None-1a
2003-12-22 13:36:35
If we're going to hold companies responsible for lost/hacked items we need to make a distinction between paying for items and game time.

If you're expected to pay other players or the developer/publisher for items or amounts of virtual cash they had damn well be responsible for making sure you have access to those things as long as you're playing the game. If you're paying for game time too bad you've played and gotten what you paid for the character and possessions are secondary.
#5 by Jibble
2003-12-22 14:52:57
Thank you None-1a for pointing out that time spent playing games is worthless.

I think the rewards for playing a game to certain length are somewhat equal to the rewards that are obtained through direct payment.  After all, is not one paying a monthly fee to obtain said item?  In these cases, people are paying for the items with time and money.

I'm not really a big advocate of the "if you don't like it go home" policy, since it creates a very standoffish relationship between the gamer and the company they're giving money to on a monthly basis.  It will work as long as there's no feasible alternative.  Problem is that as soon as a company comes out with a good game and takes ample precautions to prevent item theft through hacking, the customer base will head over there.  

It's a lot like the recent cell phone number carryover issue.  Cellular companies treated their customers like shit before because they wanted to keep their numbers.  Now they have to spend assloads of money trying to keep them around.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#6 by CheesyPoof
2003-12-22 15:04:58
Hey, they owe you nothing right?!

No.  Once I start paying them money they owe me an enjoyable game.  If I spend 8 months building a character only to have some fucktard ruin it, I want them to fix the situation.
#7 by Trolly McTroll
2003-12-22 15:52:42
#6 CheesyPoof
Hey, they owe you nothing right?!

No.  Once I start paying them money they owe me an enjoyable game.  If I spend 8 months building a character only to have some fucktard ruin it, I want them to fix the situation.



I want a bean feast, and I want it now

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"I agree with Trolly. " - yotsuya
#8 by Jibble
2003-12-22 15:59:14
Golden geese are to your left.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#9 by Greg
2003-12-22 16:30:17
If in-game items dropped by a random number generator are given legitimate real world value, then I hope that the government starts taxing the game companies for subsidizing a lottery.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#10 by Greg
2003-12-22 16:33:21
And I don't mean real world value as deemed by ebay. That could be legally construed as just selling a service, right G-Man?

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#11 by Jibble
2003-12-22 16:33:53
Right, except you have no chance of getting those items if you're a level one character.  Maybe if the lottery favored rich people your analogy would be valid.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#12 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-12-22 16:35:37
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
`Sup Trolly, Joker, FAVICON

/me high-fives DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
#13 by Matt Perkins
2003-12-22 16:41:43
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
If in-game items dropped by a random number generator are given legitimate real world value, then I hope that the government starts taxing the game companies for subsidizing a lottery.


I don't know that they need to be given a real world value so much as guarantee of not losing your property to crap.  If I pay for a service, I expect that service to be prepared to handle potential issues in their system.

Arguing with ANYONE is pointless, you numbskull. That's why they call it "arguing." - jafd
#14 by Greg
2003-12-22 16:52:20
I don't see why it matters, Jibble. As a level one character, I can still find items. If those items have real world value, it's a lottery.

Matt, you mean that they don't already try to save your items as best they can? It's in their interest to do so.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#15 by Jibble
2003-12-22 16:54:35
If I leave my house and go rooting in the garbage for long enough, I'll probably find something of worth.  Is that a lottery?

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#16 by Matt Perkins
2003-12-22 16:56:02
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Matt, you mean that they don't already try to save your items as best they can? It's in their interest to do so.


In their interest yes, but can they currently be held responsible?  That's the problem.  If you lose an item or your character gets crapped due to a bug, or you get hacked, etc, you're just screwed.  Most of the current MMORPG companies just say, "Sorry, we can't help you."  That's bull.  They only get away with it because it's a "game".

Arguing with ANYONE is pointless, you numbskull. That's why they call it "arguing." - jafd
#17 by McBain
2003-12-22 17:30:29
It was only a matter of time.  Software and ideas are property, why not database entries in a virtual world.
#18 by Greg
2003-12-22 17:35:51
Matt Perkins, rail against Ticketmaster, please. Once you buy a ticket, there is very little recourse you have in being able to get your money back based on the circumstances. At least these game developers seem to be working in good faith to lessen the amount of times you lose stuff. And what about acts of God? Are you going to blame the developers because your computer was zapped by a power hit?

You're just looking for someone to blame for a little misfortune. Think about it, you're no different than half of the US. Yeah, it is a game, not a job.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#19 by Jibble
2003-12-22 17:38:33
I don't think any of us were advocating game developer responsibility for individual power outages.  It seems like it's becoming more common for companies to just give people a "tough shit" approach when stuff like this happens though.  I just hope that it will change in the future.  In the meantime, I'll keep my $8.95 a month.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#20 by Bailey
2003-12-22 17:43:13
Hey, they owe you nothing right?!

Unless you live in China, apparently. Then they owe you everything.

re: Avatar Icon
#21 by Greg
2003-12-22 17:45:04
Lots of software companies have given people a "tough shit" response. It isn't limited to online multiplayer game developers.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#22 by Jibble
2003-12-22 17:49:51
MS leaves huge fucking security holes in their software.  Does that mean they can't be held at least partially liable for intellectual property theft that results from said security holes if they knew they existed and did nothing to fix them?

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#23 by Greg
2003-12-22 18:01:53
Would there be any locksmiths in the world if that was the case?

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#24 by Jibble
2003-12-22 18:03:26
I'm sorry, but...what?

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#25 by Greg
2003-12-22 18:06:32
If you get your house broken into, you might as well sue the locksmith for not preventing them from entering and stealing your stuff.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#26 by Duality
2003-12-22 18:14:30
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
Only if the lock were found faulty, sure.

Lots of software companies have given people a "tough shit" response. It isn't limited to online multiplayer game developers

Except that the vast majority of those companies aren't asking for a monthy subscription.  Considering it takes so few monetary resources comparative to the rest of the costs of running a PIG, ensuring that accounts that are hacked / damaged are reinstated to the best of their ability shouldn't be a hassle at all.

I think there has to be a consideration in what can be restored, however.  I would imagine that each account can be restored from backup on its own, rather than having to restore an entire database from a specific backup.  Otherwise, I can understand why companies wouldn't be willing to reimburse in-game items if there is no distinct evidence to account for recieving whatever item(s) was/were lost.

Duality [bunge shot bonus] +10G
#27 by Jibble
2003-12-22 18:18:35
Okay, let's extrapolate this to actually fit the situation we're talking about, as ridiculous as it's about to sound.

Your house gets broken into.  You just had a new set of custom designed locks installed by the locksmith that designed them and you're paying $8.95 a month for lock maintenance.  Turns out those locks are damned easy to open with a paper clip.  You write a complaint to the BBB claiming that the locksmith should have known about it, they contact the locksmith, who had no way of knowing of this particular vulnerability.  No fault lies with the locksmith here.  Unfortunately, now it's a matter of public record that he knows about the vulnerability, which is what we're talking about.

Now you're paying the locksmith $8.95 a month to maintain his locks, which are designed by sheer purpose to keep the criminal out of your home.  You ask him kindly to fix the vulnerability he now has full knowledge of, and he says "fuck off".  You really like these locks though, you've invested a lot of money and time (through the complaint process) into them.  You want them fixed, damnit, and no one else in town can fix them because they're custom locks.  If a thief uses the same paper clip to break into the lock, the locksmith should have to deal with some responsibility because he knew there was an exploitable flaw in the design.  It's called negligence, and it's why vehicles, toys, and all manner of other products are recalled on a daily basis.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#28 by Greg
2003-12-22 18:25:57
I don't remember the original topic talking about repeated occurrences that would constitute negligence. But anyway, what is a reasonable timeframe for fixing said bugs? Should they shut down the game because of a known bug that might cause them to get sued? I can't wait for that to happen. They should be completely at fault for anything related to account information and such, but if people are going to get pissy at having lost their +5 sword of the retard because the server crashed, and the company's most recent backup didn't have it saved, then tough shit. Think about it from the point of view that the +5 sword of the retard is actually your property. Then there's all sorts of legal issues that could come into play that will make Charles' MMOG crash prediction come true.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#29 by Jibble
2003-12-22 18:31:53
I think that prediction will come true regardless...too many choices, too little business to each, to little money to maintain, the whole thing comes crashing down.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#30 by Desiato
2003-12-22 19:09:45
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
In applying this to SecondLife - it doesn't hold up because of the way the game dynamics are set up.

You can't take anything not explicitly given or allowed to be copied. I suppose some hack could be done given enough time, but it would outweigh the easiest method, simply make something for yourself. Intellectual property rights are now 'owned' by the players, so any bickering will be on a player-vs-player basis, not the infrastructure that allows them to play. Similar to the 'ISP as a conduit' defense when carriers are sued for users actions or 'actionable' data traversing their networks.

...like the color of a tv screen tuned to a dead channel.
#31 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-12-22 19:26:33
I think people are missing one key point here, typically players don't own these virtual belongings, the publisher/developer of the game does. So any data that gets screwed with is the company's data and if they don't want to pursue the case or correct the changes to the database they really have no legal obligation to. The player is paying to play the game and access the company's servers which the player is still capable of doing. I do think, for purposes of customer satisfaction and goodwill, that a company should consider rectifying the situation but I don't think they're under any obligation to do so.

I kid cause I care.
#32 by G-Man
2003-12-22 19:29:58
For those thinking that the SecondLife system is irrelevant because it is only limited to that particular game, you should be aware that the system of digital rights management under Palladium is planned to work in a similar way.
#33 by Jibble
2003-12-22 19:37:02
#31 TheTrunkDr.
I think people are missing one key point here, typically players don't own these virtual belongings, the publisher/developer of the game does.

I think the problem is that most people don't see it that way.  Most people say "I played 80 hours to make this level 99 character with the +5 sword of the retard, so I own him and everything he has."

A more valid complaint in this situation would be saying that you paid for a game that isn't broken and that the game has not lived up to that promise.  I think we've all seen what this leads to, though.  Death to PC games and blah bluh durr.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#34 by Desiato
2003-12-22 19:50:01
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
#32 - G-Man

For those thinking that the SecondLife system is irrelevant because it is only limited to that particular game, you should be aware that the system of digital rights management under Palladium is planned to work in a similar way.


Absolutely right, but the key difference here is that the hardware/OS combination making Palladium a reality will be at your house, not a client program talking to a server cluster over an SSL port. This introduces vulnerabilities due to access, at least on a physical basis with the hardware, as an example.

...like the color of a tv screen tuned to a dead channel.
#35 by Trolly McTroll
2003-12-22 20:00:53
#25 Greg
If you get your house broken into, you might as well sue the locksmith for not preventing them from entering and stealing your stuff.


I'm sure G-Man can arrange that.  I'm surprised more obese women haven't already done this!

'sup Jabble

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"I agree with Trolly. " - yotsuya
#36 by BobJustBob
2003-12-22 20:02:15
Think of it as renting a storage locker for $10 a month. You can't take anything out of this locker or put anything in. But this locker is full of popsicle sticks and glue. Every so often, you go into your locker and make little houses from your popsicle sticks and glue. Over time, you make much better houses. But if you ever decide to stop renting your locker, your creations will be destroyed. Then one day, someone who rents a locker from the same company goes into your locker and steals some of your popsicle stick houses and puts them in his own locker. You made these with your own time and skill, but using their property. Should you be compensated for your loss? One the one side, you're paying these people and thus deserve compensation. On the other side, these creations are impermanent anyway and also never belonged to you.

Note that this analogy only works if you imagine your popsicle-house-making-skill is erased from your brain once you stop renting the locker.

Dood.
#37 by Jibble
2003-12-22 20:04:34
Yeesh, and I thought Greg's analogy was bad.  You win, Bob.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#38 by Trolly McTroll
2003-12-22 20:34:48
MY FINAL POST

As I sit and I stare out the window of this computer/art/TV room, my mind starts its usual tale of wandering.

I am flooded with many thoughts and feelings, not really knowing what to really do with them, but that is just my mind taking control. So instead I will speak with my heart. Not everyone will share or understand my beliefs, nor do I expect you to. What I do wish for is that you at least take a moment to read them and reflect upon your own life, maybe you will find a piece of my soul that might suit you. And you might learn from my pain, and who knows someday I might be able to learn from yours. With that said, here is what is weighing so heavy upon my heart and soul.

I wonder why it rains today. Who are the angels crying for? So often I tell the little ones I come in contact with, that when it rains its the angels up in heaven crying for they have lost one of their own here on earth. Then after the crying you are to look for a rainbow and that is the promise from them that things will be better after the rains.

*Sigh*

I haven't seen a rainbow in a long time. I wonder where my promise is. I believe that the angels are crying for all humanity today. For I know that is the reason why I am crying. I used to believe that crying was a sign of weakness. The love of my life has finally instilled it within me, crying is showing that I have a compassionate soul and an empathetic heart. Sometimes I wish I didn't. I take each and every person's pain to my own heart. With the naive belief it will somehow alleviate their own suffering. I would take the pain of the world upon my heart, if it ensured that nobody else would feel pain or suffering. If only it were that easy.

I have come close so many times in giving up hope on humanity. I see all too often the disturbing and grotesque nature, that is becoming more of an acceptable nature, then my own. Not saying mine is perfect, but it is better than what we are becoming. Then when I say something about this so-called normal behavior, most people don't even notice it. We seem to not only have a wicked side to us, but we also have the ostrich theory. If you stick your head in the sand and ignore everything, maybe it will go away. Or even better is when I hear, well it doesn't effect me, so why should I care? To hell, it doesn't effect you! It effects all living creatures, we are teachers, role models, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, the list goes on and on. Everything we do effects another persons life, to think otherwise is pure ignorance. For those who are still curious as to what nature I am speaking of, that is becoming a more acceptable way to be. Let me inform you..........

Every time there is a car accident or some other form of accident, I see people staring at the people. None of them are even offering their help or even something as easy as asking how the person is feeling. We pull out video cameras, we point it out to our children, we get on our cell phones and instead of calling for help, we tell about the painful sight we just saw. Most people do this to seek sympathy from others that their minds will be forever burdened with this image. Notice I said their minds are burdened and not their hearts. A person who is actually feeling with their heart would not do such things, they would be wanting to help take the pain of the person who is injured or just even scared. After a car accident I was in, where I watched 3 people lose their lives, I overheard such disgusting comments like, "What did they look like?" "Was there a lot of blood?" "That is so cool you got to see them!" I was HORRIFIED to hear such things come out of another human's mouth! For all those people who wish to see another person slip away, no you don't! I would never curse upon someone some of the images that are forever burned upon my heart. To watch a beautiful person slip away in any fashion is not cool, or a sight to see. It's tragic!

The media is another heartless medium that has become acceptable. Here we commercialize and exploit anyone and everyone who has ever been hurt, and not even shed a tear. I wonder if on an application to work for these money hungry powerhouses aka the media, there is a question that asks are you completely void of human emotion? And if you are, then we shall hire you. To see reports of people and animals being hurt or killed by people who wear a smile upon their face and then showing more concern about the weather or what "celebrities" relationship is on the rocks, is pitiful. I am not saying I would like to see all forms of media break down in hysterics when something like this happens, but at least showing some form of remorse or compassion will do. I have seen too many times when the media has lost all knowledge of their true purpose, just to get a story. And then it's a fight to see who can get their story on the air or in print first. Stating they are exclusive, or on the scene. Why not try to assist instead of reporting?

Even people who are in professions who say they wish to help people or animals are controlled by the all mighty dollar. We are in so much of a hurry to "help" as many people we can, we forget about tending to the emotional wounds they have endured. Bones and bruises will heal, but the trauma that took place to the heart will forever be scarred. We treat abuse with more abuse. In my eyes when you don't tend to the person's heart, I am inflicting more abuse upon them, and it's far worse then the wounds upon their bodies. I know in my particular profession of being a Vet, I see too many with the ideal they are just an animal. But they are not! They are a living, breathing, creature just like you or I, that feel the same pain we do. In fact their pain is far worse, for they can't tell us where they hurt. They do in their own way, but we just punish them for acting that way. An animal when they hurt, they can't shout, "Hey dumbshit that hurts!", they bite. So then we put that poor precious creature to sleep because they bit us! Not ever stopping to think or feel, that they might be letting you know in their own way, they felt pain. And nobody give me the bullshit of well then I have never been attacked by a dog. I have! I have been attacked and bit by my fair share, but I know they are trying to tell me something. They are saying please be gentle for I feel pain just like you. I don't punish them for it, I instead show them compassion and then they cooperate. Holy shit! What a novel idea, showing another living creature compassion and getting a good result!!

But what do I care, it doesn't effect me? It does effect me, not because I am a person with a caring nature, but I know I would want my family members to get the best treatment they deserve. And if I go on believing there is nothing wrong with the world and society then I am hurting them just as much as others. I don't want my friends or family exploited in any fashion. And even that statement can entail many aspects to it. If you put anyone in a situation in which they would be degrading themselves or going against their natures, you are exploiting them! Do you want anyone to do that to you? Then why do it to others. We need to remember every person is someone's family member or friend.

In closing I leave you with this. You might wonder what can you do to make this world a better place. Well I have a few suggestions for this is how I live my life, once again, I am not forcing my beliefs or ideals upon you. Do what you will, follow your heart and it will never misguide you.

If you see someone in pain or suffering, share their pain. Let them vent to you, let them cry in your arms, let them know that someone is willing to listen. Now don't just hear the words, truly listen and feel along with them. And don't ask someone a question or ask them to share their feelings with you, if you really don't care. An empty gesture is just as hurtful as one that never took place.

Smile at every person you see, sometimes we forget that a smile can change a person's outlook on the world. I think smiles are becoming just as rare as good deeds.

Don't question the good deeds that someone does for you, and then just accept the bad ones. Ask the person who is being hurtful why they are doing it, and you might find that the person was hurting so badly, they didn't want to be alone in their pain. Who knows they may stop their evil ways, since you took time out of your life and shared along with them.

Hug others, you are sharing a part of you, and showing affection to them. Who knows, you may become the only friend they have in the world. And isn't that really what we are here for?

Tell your loved ones what you feel and think about them. Tomorrow is promised to no one, and it's better to tell them now, instead of feeling the sorrow and burden of wishing to turn back time to say it when they were here. When you lay your head down at night, you should have no regrets and no unspoken feelings. Never go to bed angry or sad, it is not worth it. Tell the ones you love you love them and show them each and every day how much they mean to you.

Learn from all people you come in contact with, their stories. You will be amazed at what you can learn from them and what they learn from you. To have a person pass away with nobody knowing their story is a life lived in vain. When we pass we should have many footprints on our hearts and our footprints should be on the hearts of many.

Money is not everything. Take time to enjoy the beauty of nature, to feel the warmth of love, and appreciate all the good that surrounds us. Money does not buy happiness, for I know some of the richest people in the world are the most miserable for they have never felt love. On the same token, some of the poorest are the happiest, for they know and appreciate all good things that happen to them.

I would apologize for this entry being long, but I am not sorry. My heart is finally rid of the burden that was weighing upon it. I hope at least I left a footprint of my soul upon you.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"I agree with Trolly. " - yotsuya
#39 by Neale
2003-12-22 20:35:34
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
Shush.

9 years later you're the fat kid with his face pressed against the window of The Industry. - crash
#40 by Jibble
2003-12-22 20:38:17
That sound...it's like a thousand scroll wheels cried out at once...and were lit aflame by excess friction.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#41 by Shadarr
2003-12-22 20:39:08
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Nobody likes a tease.
#42 by The_Joker
2003-12-22 21:13:18
http://www.jackinworld.com
'sup Trolly, DKI, FAVICON

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#43 by mike
2003-12-22 21:25:58
www.antigames.com
Boy, if that really was Trolly's last post, I'll almost feel bad for having scrolled past it.

Almost.

Dogs fucked the pope. No fault of mine.
#44 by Duality
2003-12-22 21:39:30
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
I would just like to thank Trolly for giving me a chance to try out the Scroll Button on my new Logitech MX500!

Duality [bunge shot bonus] +10G
#45 by Desiato
2003-12-22 21:41:03
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Suprisingly the generic 2-button Dell mouse with scrollwheel performed quite well. I'm looking forward to trying out that post on my MX700 at home, I think the wheel diameter is a bit different.

...like the color of a tv screen tuned to a dead channel.
#46 by Marcin
2003-12-22 21:43:44
marcin@wickedtoast.com www.damodred.net
My MS generi-mouse didn't make it through this tough challenge. I had to resort to the PageDown key, which performed quite well.

Critical Hit
#47 by Jibble
2003-12-22 21:44:49
Folks, there's only one real way to handle that post.  The sheer size will handle it nicely.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#48 by HiredGoons
2003-12-22 21:44:50
G-Man

Mythic vs. Microsoft.

What's your take?
#49 by CheesyPoof
2003-12-22 21:48:06
These "last posts" are usually a fun read.  I dunno where he copied that from but it was long and boring and not worth a read.
#50 by Greg
2003-12-22 21:50:03
My take is that Mythic will lose. They aren't selling a game derived from their name, and all Microsoft has to do is point to Lindows, even if the cases are slightly different.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: How long before this is true in the US?

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
P O S T   A   C O M M E N T

You need to be logged in to post a comment here. If you don't have an account yet, you can create one here. Registration is free.
C R A P T A G S
Simple formatting: [b]bold[/b], [i]italic[/i], [u]underline[/u]
Web Links: [url=www.mans.de]Cool Site[/url], [url]www.mans.de[/url]
Email Links: [email=some@email.com]Email me[/email], [email]some@email.com[/email]
Simple formatting: Quoted text: [quote]Yadda yadda[/quote]
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (2) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
There are currently 0 people browsing this site. [Details]