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Scott is right...?
November 29th 2003, 08:40 CET by Matt Perkins

According to this website, Scott Miller knew Max Payne would be a success before the game was ever made...

He lists out a lot of points on that website...that may or may not be a part of the success of Max Payne.

My question is this...  
•    Is this a true method for success, has Scott worked out a guarenteed formula where no one else could?
•    Or this is 20/20 hindsight?  Is this just what Mr. Miller thinks made the game successful now that he is looking back?

And will we know the answer before his next planned success?
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Scott is right...?

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#115 by Squeaky
2003-12-05 02:22:17
th'an'ks!

it's my onion and you can't change it!
DVDs
#116 by LPMiller
2003-12-05 02:24:16
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Looks like it's time for another paypal donation. Can't remember the last time I did it.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#117 by BobJustBob
2003-12-05 02:25:45
So who's writing the GSI/IGN merger topic?

Dood.
#118 by Squeaky
2003-12-05 02:27:23
paypal wont let me give morn money!

it's my onion and you can't change it!
DVDs
#119 by LPMiller
2003-12-05 02:28:21
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Perhaps that's why I can't remember the last time I did it.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#120 by Ergo
2003-12-05 02:54:33
Is it alive?

Cogite tute.
DVDs
#121 by Ergo
2003-12-05 02:55:23
It is! Yay!

Cogite tute.
DVDs
#122 by Squeaky
2003-12-05 02:56:20
we should celebrate this joyous occasion with a posting of the lasted revision of "The List".

it's my onion and you can't change it!
DVDs
#123 by Ergo
2003-12-05 02:58:57
It's on my work machine, and I'm fuck-all too lazy to search the archives.

Cogite tute.
DVDs
#124 by OwenButler
2003-12-05 03:40:16
http://blog.owenbutler.org/
Thank baby jebus it's back.
#125 by Hugin
2003-12-05 04:16:31
lmccain@nber.org
Yay!  It's back!


/me hugs the world. And Morn.
#126 by G-Man
2003-12-05 04:40:33
As Hugin can attest to, I am much less interesting in IRC. So I am glad to see Planetcrap back in action again.
#127 by Gabe
2003-12-05 05:00:40
http://www.dartpublishing.com
Crap.
#128 by Jibble
2003-12-05 05:21:10
Thank god for hosts files.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#129 by Matt Perkins
2003-12-05 05:42:43
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I misread, I guess, the post by Scott about marketing Max Payne.  If the afore mentioned marketing tips are just a part of the process, then maybe it does drastically up the odds of success.  I still have some problem that the article seems to say this is a guarantee (until the very end where the whole mood of the post changes).

Having not created/produced/marketed/etc a successful game, I can't claim to know...  These marketing tips just seemed to be presented as a bit too sure fire and after the fact.  Could just be me.



Side Note: thx morn.  we luv you.  and I love everyone.

I'm the spoon
#130 by Matt Perkins
2003-12-05 05:44:18
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I did forget to confirm Bailey's post that he successfully marketed this topic.  Even though no one liked it, it got voted in...

I'm the spoon
#131 by jafd
2003-12-05 05:47:01
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
I was hoping this topic would have been accidentally deleted during the downtime. Curses!

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#132 by crash
2003-12-05 05:51:07
Well, just submitted a topic, but it's not showing in the bin. Morn?

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE
#133 by crash
2003-12-05 05:53:34
Okay never mind, I'm retarded. "Gee," thinks crash, "odd that there isn't a preview function on the submission bin. Guess I'll just type it in a post and keep previewing it until I like it, then copy and paste." Of course, maybe if I read the instructions on the page, I'd have known that it isn't "done" until you hit "Submit," and you can edit it as much as you like before that.

I'm going to go beat my head on an unyielding object now.

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE
#134 by G-Man
2003-12-05 06:04:41
Sorry crash I didn't know you had written one already. Honest, I was just trying to fill the void.
#135 by crash
2003-12-05 06:09:58
No worries. Yours is better than mine is. I voted for yours.

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE
#136 by G-Man
2003-12-05 06:20:27
Aw shucks, now I feel like Reese Witherspoon in Election because I voted for myself. /me tears down crash's banners.
#137 by Squeaky
2003-12-05 06:25:40
you can vote for your own topics?!

it's my onion and you can't change it!
DVDs
#138 by crash
2003-12-05 06:25:51
Er? Is there a way to vote on your own topic? Didn't see one, but it's more than likely I'm just being retarded again.

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE
#139 by Squeaky
2003-12-05 06:26:41
you can never have too many GSI topics!

fuck GSI! IGN are a bunch of nerds!

we need more exclamation points!!!!!!

it's my onion and you can't change it!
DVDs
#140 by "Scott Miller"
2003-12-05 06:28:12
scottm@gamematters.com www.3drealms.com
>>> These marketing tips just seemed to be presented as a bit too sure fire and after the fact.  Could just be me. <<<

Well, from the time 3DR got involved with the project and began applying these principles, both Remedy and us were very confident that everything was going to work out for the best.  Everything rang true from the beginning, and therefore everyone believed fully in the approach and the goal.

I'm currently applying these same principles to a restaurant business I'm starting (with partners -- I'm mostly an investor and "high concept guru," this isn't something that's gonna eat up a lot of my time, like building rocket ships).  And verses the marketing-dumb competition this concept will be facing, it's as sure-fire as a business can be, and designed from the beginning to be a successful chain.  I expect that within a year of opening the place, it'll be widely recognized as the best restaurant of its category.  Like the game business, it's really easy to produce a hit if you design the place correctly from the beginning -- the hardest part is the actual execution, but that part can be controlled fairly easily and doesn't rely on luck, just good management.  I'll be talking about this restaurant in my blog once all the trademarks are in place, and explaining how the applied marketing psychology that can drive game design can work to design ANY successful consumer product.
#141 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-12-05 06:41:22
hehe, good luck!

I kid cause I care.
#142 by G-Man
2003-12-05 07:05:19
crash in #138 said:
Er? Is there a way to vote on your own topic? Didn't see one, but it's more than likely I'm just being retarded again.
Sure you can! You just need to vote for your topic with the six or seven mule accounts you created just to push topics through. I thought everyone did that?

Actually, I meant I voted no on yours because I didn't want two similar topics voted in at the same time. Voting no to yours sort of equals voting for mine in our two party democracy here.
#143 by Your Friend
2003-12-05 07:41:18

Nintendo which has *always* being stupidly developer unfriendly, and too kid oriented


I realize this is a marketing (thus money) thread, but I think it is important for you to remember you will never be involved in the creation of a game as good as any of the 'real' (non-CDi) Legend of Zelda games, or any of the Super Mario games, nor any of the Metroid games.  Yeah, you've made money and created some 'brands' but Duke and Max are no Mario or Link or Samus.  I don't hear the Duke theme music playing in my head some 10 years after I've played the game (and hear it in a good way, not a 'get the annoying song out of my head' way).  


And verses the marketing-dumb competition this concept will be facing, it's as sure-fire as a business can be, and designed from the beginning to be a successful chain.


Like Planet Hollywood?

Comment Signature
#144 by Sgt Hulka
2003-12-05 07:49:39
Wow.. Damn.. I mean, OMG.. Geesh.. Like did you see those VGA's.. Like were those spot on or what?  Freaking A.  I'm still drooling and sweating from all the action packed singing and dancing and hoopla. I've never seen a show quite like it.  I hope they release a soundtrack, a T-shirt, dancing shoes and a disco VGA monkey. I'm buying them all, for everyone for Christmas.   You all deserve it, and so do the producers  of the VGA's.. Going out on a limb and rocking the palace. I'm shattered.

#145 by Squeaky
2003-12-05 10:40:40
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm, hulka?

it's my onion and you can't change it!
DVDs
#146 by E-ph0nk
2003-12-05 10:41:17
http://www.electrophonk.be
ahoy! It's back... my working days are over.

*sigh*
#147 by Gunp01nt
2003-12-05 13:41:13
supersimon33@hotmail.com
It lives once again!

"The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data-mining algorithms."
#148 by Gunp01nt
2003-12-05 13:43:47
supersimon33@hotmail.com
And right in time for Sinterklaas.

"The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data-mining algorithms."
#149 by Ashiran
2003-12-05 13:55:57
I wouldn't mention that here. Blackface is a sensitive subject with the non dutch people.

AND DON'T ADD A SMILEY AFTER EVERY GODDAMN THING YOU SAY!
#150 by jjohnsen
2003-12-05 14:02:39
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Thanks Morn!

And just so you know the Paypal donation link gives me this message Error Detected  
 
This recipient is currently unable to receive money.
 


So I'm just sending you and/or Gabe a big hug.
#151 by Gunp01nt
2003-12-05 14:04:22
supersimon33@hotmail.com
wtf-ever. I once saw an episode of the Hughleys that was aimed at taking a stab at the dutchies, all centered around the false interpretation of black pete being a slave. Center of the mockery was the Dutch neighbour of the Hughleys, who happened to speak with a German accent. Now _that_'s a sensitive subject. :P

"The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data-mining algorithms."
#152 by bago
2003-12-05 14:04:52
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Oh, the whole Home division is losing the money, not just the XBOX. The XBOX has actually been turning profit for the company for months. However it's lumped in with the same group as MSN, and MSN has never made money.

You DARE to worship a god other than Allah? Allah does not know who this "Ctulhu" character is, kufr, but when he finds out he is going to kick that Jew deity down a flight of fucking stairs.
#153 by Gunp01nt
2003-12-05 14:06:43
supersimon33@hotmail.com
And thanks to Microsoft's aggressive strategy, the XBox has secured a nice little beachhead in the market, so the XBox 2 is sure to make a lot more money.

"The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data-mining algorithms."
#154 by bago
2003-12-05 14:07:28
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Grr... I made a new icon of me snowboarding, and I couldn't wait to see morn say it was fixed :/

You DARE to worship a god other than Allah? Allah does not know who this "Ctulhu" character is, kufr, but when he finds out he is going to kick that Jew deity down a flight of fucking stairs.
#155 by jjohnsen
2003-12-05 14:09:58
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Is that whistler Bago?  It looks pretty red for so much snow.
#156 by Gunp01nt
2003-12-05 14:10:23
supersimon33@hotmail.com
yeah, that little white square must be snow, right? and that red cross is the paramedics carrying you away after you fell and broke your leg.

"The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data-mining algorithms."
#157 by E-ph0nk
2003-12-05 14:57:39
http://www.electrophonk.be
black pete isn't a bad fellow, but his bag 's so scary.

*sigh*
#158 by Gunp01nt
2003-12-05 16:45:47
supersimon33@hotmail.com
There's no need to be afraid of black pete if you've been a good boy.

"The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data-mining algorithms."
#159 by Darkseid-D
2003-12-05 17:00:21
rogerboal@hotmail.com
Say Scott, how about rescuing Sin 2 as a franchise ?


Reminiscing (or however the fuck you spell that word, I have the damn bug thats going around), with some friends about old games that we`d played to death.

Paradroid 90
Wizball/kid
Carrier Command
Stunt Car Racer
Head over Heels (recently remade, and it is good!)
Ruff N Tumble
Tir Na Nog / MarSport
Elite / Frontier (2)
SpeedBall 2
Gods
Chaos Engine
Sensible Soccer
Populous 2
PowerMonger
MegaLoMania


Then we all kinda wondered, why the fuck don`t we have games like these today, insanely playable with adequate graphics?  Having some of them as images, I fired up `Amiga in a Box` (emulator) and fiddled around to get some of them running, and sat and played, and played, and played.  Glitchy and prone to terminating yes, fun?  Very much so.  So why can`t we have teams go back for `redux` versions of games, there are few games that have the visceral crunch from the tackling in SpeedBall2, few strategy games that have the cheesy daftness of MegaLoMania. Paradroid 90 is completely ripe for a modern version, even top down with the latest shiny whizzbang graphics, it`d be hard to fuck up such a wonderful design.

Then it kinda struck me, software development costs so much and takes so long, that teams are settling into `franchise` mode.  Roughly the same game, over and over and over, vis a vis UT2004, Doom revisited,  just about any EA franchise, Sim City repeats, Medal of Honor : Swatting Moths on your back porch.  There doesnt seem to be anybody prepared to put out `risky` titles, games that are non conventional.  I suppose this is down to the publishers and marketing droids, we all recall what happened with Looking Glass, and the fates that befell Bullfrog and Westwood (both of whom have gone into the shitter since the EA acquisitions).  Lionhead (Peter Molyneux founder of BullFrog who jumped ship after the acquistion), hasnt put out a lot, but what they did put out was -different-, not perfect by any stretch, but it tried to do more than the norm.  Another Bullfrog escape Stavo put out Republic, a very ambitious game with a huge scope that doesnt appear to have done huge numbers, but by reports is a quite interesting little game.

Im wondering also that is it American game companies are the `problem`?  Theyre becoming so locked into their own little niches and concepts that theyre becoming short sighted.  Who is it gamers think of when they want `different` games, yup, Japanese developers who consistently come up with `quirky` games. Discounting the Oonga Oonga games where the object is to shove a digit into a hole, the Japanese seem to grasp what Im on about. Think about every platform mascot, almost exclusively Japanese, from Mario to Sonic to Link to Donkey Kong to Wario to Zelda to Final Fantasys latest iteration. Now Im not implying that the games are great because they have memorable protagonists, Im trying to point out that Japanese developers are doing something that US ones are not.  Even the few European developers are putting out notably different games, see IO interactives Hitman and recently Freedom Force as stand outs.

Perhaps it doesnt need saving, perhaps thats just the way it is, but it`d be nice to see the odd "different" game coming out of the mainstream.

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#160 by Gunp01nt
2003-12-05 17:09:44
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Say Scott, how about rescuing Sin 2 as a franchise ?


Unless it's for making another dreadfully bad anime.

"The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data-mining algorithms."
#161 by Charles
2003-12-05 17:14:16
www.bluh.org

Nintendo is falling behind, even though they're aware of the problem and have tried to include more adult oriented games like RE Zero.


Hah!  Did you even play RE Zero?  It was a total fucking turd, even to people who love RE games.  How the hell is that fixing the problem?  Releasing a shit game just because it fits the 'adult' demographic isn't helping anything.

Wow. I wish I knew The Whole Truth™ with 100% certainty, and, in addition to that, had The Talent™ to bring My Vision™ to The Teeming Uneducated Masses™ as capital-A Art using allegory and upskirt shots as my vehicle for understanding.

--crash
#162 by Dumdeedum
2003-12-05 17:20:11
http://www.dumdeedum.com
Scott
I'm currently applying these same principles to a restaurant business I'm starting

"Yes Sir, I realise you've been waiting hours, but your meal will be served when it's ready and not a moment before.  We took some photos of it a while back if you want to see them?"

The topic wasn't marketed badly, although I would have titled it "Great Scott!" which due to it's short, memorable nature would have led to more paradigms per zeitgeists spent.

This post was specially formulated to add volume and shine to your hair.
#163 by Greg
2003-12-05 17:29:22
I've heard that a certain someone who to work full time on rocket ships also has a penchant for actually releasing games. So yeah, I guess it does interfere.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#164 by Greg
2003-12-05 17:29:45
"to work" = "works"

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
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