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Deus Ex:The Invisible War (DX2)
November 23rd 2003, 13:27 CET by CheesyPoof

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#1 by Percy Kittenz
2003-11-23 13:30:33
blakcat9@planetquake.com http://www.livejournal.com/users/percykittenz
Paul! I thought you were in Hong Kong.

"There is only ONE God:
He is the SUN God:
Ra! Ra! Ra!"
- The Illuminatus Trilogy (Leviathan, Book 4: Beamtenherrschaft)

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Because your philosophy sucks." - Lore Fitzgerald Sj÷berg
#2 by jafd
2003-11-23 13:33:14
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
I hate the GUI. Why no drag and drop? Oh, because there's no keyboard and mouse on the Xbox. Big yay.

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#3 by m0nty
2003-11-23 13:38:01
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
I told you all many months ago when they released the first screenies of the DX2 HUD that the game would suck. But NOOOO, the fanbwahs shouted me down. Now who's laughing, suckers?
#4 by jafd
2003-11-23 13:44:06
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
The game doesn't suck. I like the HUD.

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#5 by jafd
2003-11-23 13:56:56
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
Also, I just noticed the other day, that when my current video card was new, the WTC was still standing. I get about 30 frames in the demo, but it's time to upgrade anyway.

What do I want?

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#6 by lwf
2003-11-23 13:59:10
Get an XGI Volari Duo.

a major player in the cowboy scene
#7 by Gunp01nt
2003-11-23 14:57:26
supersimon33@hotmail.com
It seems to be focussing on adventure-style gameplay even more than DX did. I kinda like it, I guess. I still have to get into it because I've only recently replayed Deus Ex and the memory of that is still very fresh and very different from DX2.
The game performs ok on my Duron 1300, 640mb RAM, Radeon 8500 when I set it to 800x600.

Cons so far: I think it's too dark. I had to keep my light mod on to be able to navigate the Greasel Pit (I completely missed the stairs to the arena at first), and although the interface does not completely suck, the inventory screen does suck very very much. Why can't I see any information on the things I'm carrying? Why am I repositioning things with a single click, and selecting with a double click? plus the HUD is too f'n big. I understand wanting to make it suitable for the X-Box, but they could've at least tried to adjust the PC version to the medium instead of making it a direct port.

Electroclash=love
#8 by Gunp01nt
2003-11-23 14:58:25
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Another con: subtitles move way too fast and the font is way too big and corny.

Electroclash=love
#9 by Duality
2003-11-23 15:37:43
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
Yeah, it was obvious it was designed around the Xbox controller.

In spite of my determination not to get an Xbox because of a lack of mouse/keyboard, I may wind up relenting anyway.  My PC is just way too old (1GHz, 512MB, GF3 Ti500) to play it for very long.  The spawnpoint runs fine, but as soon as I walk toward the alleyway with the SSC Guard, it starts to chug.

Duality [bunge shot bonus] +10G
#10 by E-ph0nk
2003-11-23 16:11:25
http://www.electrophonk.be
Runs decent here, but I don't really like it... I did all the .ini fuzzling that they advice on the forums, and that improves it somewhat, but overall I don't find I get an enjoyable experience out if this thing.

*sigh*
#11 by Jibble
2003-11-23 16:49:57
You're all insane.  I got more play out of this demo than I have out of many of the full games I've played this year.  The full version is sure to consume my life for a good while.  Going through every possible scenario was a great challenge to me (the longest being gathering up the cash), and I think they've captured just the right atmosphere for the game.  As for it being too dark, there's a "video" screen for a reason.  "Brightness", "Contrast", and "Gamma" are not just fancy words, they actually change the brightness, contrast, and gamma.  After you use the HUD for a few minutes, it becomes very natural.  I honestly hardly noticed it being there in-game, and when I did I was glad for it because it was good for quick reference to my abilities and weapons.  I do agree that drag and drop is sorely missing here, and the single click move is annoying, but it's pretty easy to get used to.

It's obvious that the game will follow the fantastic branching example set forth by the original, and the added physics make it a hell of a lot of fun to tinker around with.  It's great fun to throw chairs and barrels at things, or see how long you can keep two barrels in the air at the same time, or how long you can juggle a body with the turret on the landing pad.  Anyone who said the demo is too short or that the game is boring only played it through once.  They obviously haven't gone through the heating ducts, played with the spiderbombs, gone into the sewers, or seen how many bodies they can cram into a dumpster.  There's so many weapons available in the demo that you can fill your inventory and have to drop shit to use them all.  I think the only thing I would change is the agonized screaming that people do when I light them on fire or shoot them with acid darts.  I feel so guilty.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#12 by jafd
2003-11-23 16:59:12
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
The screaming is the best part!!

I'm thinking of getting a Radeon 9800. Anyone want to tell me why I shouldn't?

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#13 by Ashiran
2003-11-23 17:00:13
I would have liked a PC demo that had its options set for the PC and not the Xbox.

AND DON'T ADD A SMILEY AFTER EVERY GODDAMN THING YOU SAY!
#14 by Jibble
2003-11-23 17:00:48
#13 Ashiran
I would have liked a PC demo that had its options set for the PC and not the Xbox.

I agree with what you wrote.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#15 by Jibble
2003-11-23 17:07:00
Looks like the hype machine is still running at full capacity.  Cocky, ain't it?

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#16 by lwf
2003-11-23 17:08:48
FORBIDDEN.

a major player in the cowboy scene
#17 by jafd
2003-11-23 17:11:07
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
It worked for me, you're not missing anything.

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#18 by lwf
2003-11-23 17:14:44
Why are you singling me out like this Jibble. I hate you.

a major player in the cowboy scene
#19 by Marcin
2003-11-23 17:22:04
marcin@wickedtoast.com www.damodred.net
Well, sure. It got the hardcore whiners out of its hair with the demo, so the complainers will be less hit by the "general unrealisticness" with the full game release.  Now they can enjoy the rest of the world liking their game. Uh, maybe.

I'm still thinking they had to put out an older demo because of the fubar with FilePlanet's EZpad. A demo made for an earlier XBoxen presentation.

I'm amazed at how many things you can change in the default.ini. For those who don't feel like searching through the rather slow IS forums, here are a few things (settings already changed):

PC Fonts

[FontMappings]
SmallFont10__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
MediumFont16__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HudFont12__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HudFont14__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HudFont16__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HUD_HelpText__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HUD_SmallText__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HUD_CornerHelpText__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HUD_DataLink__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HUD_Inventory__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HUD_Convo__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80


Mouse Clumsiness
MouseLagThreshold=0

Wider HUD - it's set to 60 by default

;this FOV is for the HUD only.  On the XBox, we need to keep all HUD elements within 10% of the edges.
;FOV__d=68 ;68 is good for the PC version
FOV__d=69


Also check under the [Difficulty] heading for damage multipliers. A 3 or 4 will give you headshot kills, but it might get a little too easy then.

As mentioned above, there's a lot of stuff under the [D3DDrv.D3DRenderDevice] heading that you can toggle to True. I haven't really perceived any difference though, either from detailed textures or volumetric lighting.

Critical Hit
#20 by UncleJeet
2003-11-23 17:34:57
I told you all many months ago when they released the first screenies of the DX2 HUD that the game would suck. But NOOOO, the fanbwahs shouted me down. Now who's laughing, suckers?


Me.  At you.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#21 by Darkseid-D
2003-11-23 17:56:44
rogerboal@hotmail.com
I like the UI, doesnt bother me at all.

Could do with being closer to the edge of the screen (do able), and perhaps a larger inventory, but other than that the interface is minimalistic and more to the point, doesnt get in my damn way.

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#22 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-23 19:10:33
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#15 Jibble
Looks like the hype machine is still running at full capacity.  Cocky, ain't it?

Neat!  Now companies can claim GOTY before they even ship.  Next, they'll be claiming it before they even begin development.

Actually, fuck waiting ... UT2004 - Game of the year!

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#23 by lwf
2003-11-23 19:13:54
For 20 bucks and sandwich I'll call it game of the year, you can quote me on the front of the box.

a major player in the cowboy scene
#24 by Jibble
2003-11-23 19:16:50
That's the funny thing about that...there's two other quotes in that banner ad, all clearly in quotation marks and with noted sources...the last one (GAME OF THE YEAR!@#!@$%@#$%#$^) isn't quoted from anywhere.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#25 by jafd
2003-11-23 19:22:48
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
Wizardry 8 is still game of the year. And you can quote me on that.

It's probably the game of Eidos' year, that's for sure. When was the last time anyone paid them this kind of attention?

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#26 by Dethstryk
2003-11-23 19:54:24
jemartin@tcainternet.com
I loved the demo. Now, I did let everyone figure out all of the .INI fuckery before I even started playing it. This game is going to rock.

Oh, and everyone needs to play on realistic.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#27 by BobJustBob
2003-11-23 19:54:26
Now who's laughing, suckers?


I am.

Dood.
#28 by Marsh Davies
2003-11-23 19:56:21
www.verbalchilli.com
I have 1.4 GHz, 256 RAM and a GeForce 4 Ti 4200. Will DX2 run like shit?

#29 by Sgt Hulka
2003-11-23 20:09:12
My favorite part is where... wait a minute..  I haven't played this demo.. nevermind.

#30 by Marcin
2003-11-23 20:10:11
marcin@wickedtoast.com www.damodred.net
The 256 ram might hurt you, but I have a 1.5 athlon, and a GF 4 4600, runs fine with high details (although in 8x6). 768mb ram here. I think you'll be ok.

Critical Hit
#31 by Your Friend
2003-11-23 20:12:54

Now they can enjoy the rest of the world liking their game.


On the Xbox maybe.  The PC specs are so high that only the whining hardcore has the hardware to play it.  The PC sales are going to be dismal.

Comment Signature
#32 by Marcin
2003-11-23 20:13:25
marcin@wickedtoast.com www.damodred.net
See my post above. My specs are mediocre and the game runs fine.

Critical Hit
#33 by Your Friend
2003-11-23 20:17:36
Marcin: You have a GeForce 4, non-MX.  That puts you above a huge percentage of the non-hardcore gaming market.  A fuckton of people have GeForce 2s, GeForce 4 MXs or older/embedded video.  

You know how well Deus Ex 2 runs on those systems? It doesn't, period.  It doesn't run slowly, or with reduced effects, it just doesn't run.

The PC sales of this title are going to be dismal, and it may set new records for attempts at people returning the game when they realize their GeForce 4 MX is not a "GeForce 3 or higher".

Comment Signature
#34 by Jibble
2003-11-23 20:17:37
Same here - AMD 1.2 Tbird with Ti-4200 512mb of ram...you can't crank it up to 1024 with full details, but it looks good even in 800 for me.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#35 by Jibble
2003-11-23 20:24:08
#33 Your Friend
Marcin: You have a GeForce 4, non-MX.  That puts you above a huge percentage of the non-hardcore gaming market.  A fuckton of people have GeForce 2s, GeForce 4 MXs or older/embedded video.  

The PC sales of this title are going to be dismal, and it may set new records for attempts at people returning the game when they realize their GeForce 4 MX is not a "GeForce 3 or higher".

If you follow your logic, HL2 and Doom 3 will fail as well, which is bullshit.  You can buy a Ti4200 card for $130 if you know where to look (I've seen them for under $100 with rebates).  That's not fucking hardcore.  Hardcore is $200+.  Anyone who games on a PC understands that their shit-old Geforce3 card isn't going to cut it, and that MX cards are crap.  Devs don't have to aim for the low end, if they did they'd be shooting themselves in the foot in a lot of cases because those aren't the people who want a complex game like DX anyway.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#36 by Your Friend
2003-11-23 20:26:20
In simple wording: It is too early (by about 8 months to a year) to release a PC game that *requires* pixel shaders, which is why none of Doom3, HL2, and other big-name engines "coming soon" still support fallback modes to at least the GeForce 2.

This will absolutely impact sales negatively, EOD.

Comment Signature
#37 by Your Friend
2003-11-23 20:27:26

If you follow your logic, HL2 and Doom 3 will fail as well, which is bullshit.


Wrong, see above.  

Doom3 will run on a GeForce 1.  HL2 will run on a TNT2.  Neither will give you the best experience, of course, but they WILL run, unlike Deus Ex 2.

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#38 by Your Friend
2003-11-23 20:29:32
That's not fucking hardcore.  Hardcore is $200+.


Hardcore has a lot more to do with timing than price.  It doesn't matter if you can get a 9800XT for 5 bucks, the vast majority of PC users, even gamers, NEVER install add-in cards to their systems.

Comment Signature
#39 by Your Friend
2003-11-23 20:30:31
"Hardcore has a lot more to do with timing than price." -- Er, that came out sounding weird, what I meant is what the non-hardcore gamers have in their systems has a lot more to do with timing than price.

Comment Signature
#40 by Your Friend
2003-11-23 20:31:30
Also, when I said "none of", just remove that, Doom3, HL2 DO support fallback modes.. doh.  must learn to proofread before pressing post.

Anyway, I'm right and Jibble is wrong, in every way!

Comment Signature
#41 by jafd
2003-11-23 20:32:28
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
#35 Jibble
their shit-old Geforce3 card isn't going to cut it

I have an athlon 2800+ and a shit-old Geforce3, and performance is quite playable, honestly. It could be a lot better, which is why I'm going to upgrade, but it's definitely not hideously awful, like how DX1 was on any D3D card with detail textures enabled. Not in the least.

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#42 by UncleJeet
2003-11-23 20:33:16
YF also claimed DX 1 was a dismal failure in sales....

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#43 by jafd
2003-11-23 20:37:16
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
I heard a rumour that DX1 on the PS2 grossed more than DX1 on the PC. Any truth to that?

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#44 by UncleJeet
2003-11-23 20:38:23
I wouldn't doubt it, there being a much smaller development cost involved in the port plus the naturally higher sales that a console has over any PC release.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#45 by UncleJeet
2003-11-23 20:38:57
Er, ok you said grossed so ignore the development costs.  Sometimes I'm stupid.  Well, more stupiderest.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#46 by Your Friend
2003-11-23 20:40:27
Jeet is lying.  I claimed that Deus Ex 1's sales did not live up to the massive critical response it got.  And they didn't.

And this has nothing to do with Deus Ex 1's sales -- Deus Ex 1 ran shitty on anything but Voodoo cards, but there wasn't an immovable wall like there is with Deus Ex 2.  

I'm not complaing that Deus Ex 2's performance is bad, I'm just saying that requiring pixel shaders for the game to even run is a hugely bad business decision.. and it is also one that Deus Ex 2's graphics don't really support, considering (again) that games with more impressive visuals, like Doom3 and HL2 will support fallback modes for non-pixelshader cards.

This all boils down to numbers, really.  This isn't an emotional "Deus Ex 2 sucks" post, so don't defend it like it is, fanboys.  The number of installed PC videocards that support pixelshaders is currently very low, period.  If you don't think requring pixelshaders will have a huge negative impact on Deus Ex 2's sales, you're dumb.. or something.  I don't even see how this is debatable.

Comment Signature
#47 by Jibble
2003-11-23 20:42:50
#38 Your Friend
That's not fucking hardcore.  Hardcore is $200+.


Hardcore has a lot more to do with timing than price.  It doesn't matter if you can get a 9800XT for 5 bucks, the vast majority of PC users, even gamers, NEVER install add-in cards to their systems.

The fact that you actually believe that gamers don't install add-in cards is beyond my comprehension.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#48 by Your Friend
2003-11-23 20:43:12
Having said all of this, I don't think Ion Storm or EIDOS are dumb.  

I just think this points to the fact that if given the choice, they'd have released the game XBOX only, and the PC version is somewhat of a token release, to avoid the bad PR backlash that would have resulted from moving XBOX-only. That is the only possible reason I can think of why they'd release with a hard GF3+ requirement.

Comment Signature
#49 by Jibble
2003-11-23 20:44:52
The simple fact is that this game is not TARGETED at the normal gamer base.  Sales to consumers outside of your target base are a bonus, not a requirement.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#50 by UncleJeet
2003-11-23 20:54:41
I might have been mistaken, YF, but I was not lying.  Watch the accusations, chief.

Anyway, I would absoltely love to see some of these ephemeral "statistics" that people pull out of their ass that always seem to be custom made to suit their argument.  If you can show me that the majority of people that buy games similar to DX2 as far as technology level (ie, no Solitare, Deer Hunter, Rollercoaster Tycoon demographic please) do not have Geforce 3 and above level cards, I will acknowledge your argument as being genuine.

However, an assumption that most gamers don't install add-in cards and therefore won't have a gf3+ in their machine and will therefore not be able to play DX2 and will therefore not buy it is a bit of a big leap when you have no hard data on which to base it.

In my mind, people buying and playing games like DX2 are primarily made up of more "serious" gamers that spend the money to keep up, in at least some way, with technology.  Should they have made it at least run poorly and ugly on pre-gf3 cards?  Sure, if they easily could and the benefits outweighed the costs.  But since they did not do this, I can only assume that the costs in fact outweighed the benefits, or it was simply not feasible due to their modifications of the engine.

Also, isn't this one of the reasons that God invented demos?  If Joe Compaq is really interested enough in DX2 and he downloads the demo to discover he needs a better video card, he might actually go out and buy one, if he takes into account that THE FUTURE is coming and DX2 is just the beginning.

I think it should also be mentioned that the geforce 2 is quite an old card, and I really don't think DX2 would run well on a computer as old as the gf2 even if Joe Compaq ran out and got a 9800xt.  If you have a machine fast enough to play the latest games, chances are you also have a geforce 3+ card.  There will always be exceptions to this, though - like Alabama.

I remember back when each new release from Origin demanded a significant upgrade to your hardware - yet their titles still sold better than most in the industry at the time.  Interesting, no?

I think some amongst us like to give as little credit to Joe Compaq as possible, for whatever reason.  Be it to build up ourselves at his expense, or to make us feel more intelligent than the general populace, or just because we really need to believe that the bully that beat us up in high school couldn't possibly have the level of intelligence required for the extremely complex task of plugging a card into an agp slot.  The fact is, "normal" users upgrade their machines all the time.  It really does happen.  Accept this, and I assure you happiness in all your pursuits.  Or something.  Fuck, who cares?

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
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