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Evening Up the Score
November 23rd 2003, 15:19 CET by deadlock

Over the past few days we've been wasting a lot of time in the office here, playing Urban Terror. And we're all a bit crap and tend to get owned big style by the outsiders that come in to play on my server. The most frustrating thing about it (apart from UT's sometimes bizarre hit detection) is the fact that quite often you can hit your enemies, causing them to limp, hemorrhage blood and generally become weakened. What happens then? They get a lucky headshot in, killing you outright or - worse - someone off of your own team fires a single shot, hitting the distressed enemy player in the foot, causing them to lose their remaining 1% health. Your team-mate gets the frag, despite you doing all of the hard work.

So, isn't it about time that the scoring systems for FPS' were updated to more accurately reflect the actual run of play? Or am I just a loser n00b who can't aim for shit and just wants some recognition?
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#1 by Duality
2003-11-23 15:24:47
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
IIRC, Soldier of Fortune 2 gave points for taking a % of HP away from an enemy, even if a teammate got the kill.

But at any rate, my idea for personal scoring modification is to remove the shit immediately!  These are teamplay games.  They are based on teamwork, which includes killing someone that your teammate might be targeting.

The only score that should be kept and displayed is that of the team.

Duality [bunge shot bonus] +10G
#2 by Duality
2003-11-23 15:25:36
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
Shit.  My first ever first post and I didn't even bother to "FIRST POST!"

Talk about a ruined moment.

Duality [bunge shot bonus] +10G
#3 by Gunp01nt
2003-11-23 16:13:44
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Agreed, especially CS tends to turn more into Team Deathmatch because teams prefer to win the round by killing the entire enemy team instead of trying to plant/defuse the bomb. Of course the problem is that the CT's would have a passive role in this situation, and most people prefer to take the initiative.

There's this server tool for Half Life that displays more detailed hit statistics, so if you took away 99% of someone's health, and a team mate finishes the job, you still get some credit for doing most of the killing.

Electroclash=love
#4 by Hugin
2003-11-23 16:24:29
lmccain@nber.org
I agree with duality.  I rarely ever play team based shooters, but the few times I have, the scoring aspect hasn't interested me, especially since if I'm effective at all (a shaky proposition), it's usually in a support role.
#5 by Greg
2003-11-23 16:38:05
I don't remember SOF2 giving points for hurting players, but there was some deal with getting extra points when looking at the briefcase carrier when he was killed. I think it was supposed to go only to the killer, but I know people have received those points without actually making the kill.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#6 by Duality
2003-11-23 16:44:16
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
That could be what I'm thinking of.  It could have also just been in the public beta and taken out before release.

Duality [bunge shot bonus] +10G
#7 by Comothinon
2003-11-23 16:46:53
Tactical-Ops has been using a points-based system for a few versions now. Prior to that it was frags only, but now the game has points for damage and frags, with points being the priority scoring system. It helps reward the players that tend to dish out a whole lot of damage early and then end up dead while the rest of the team cleans up.
#8 by Marcin
2003-11-23 17:25:25
marcin@wickedtoast.com www.damodred.net
Didn't America's Army have some sort of "teamplay" and "honor" rating, and hardly any focus on kills? I also know Infiltration took the route of taking kill stats out completely, instead going for "teamplay", which scored by team coherence (how close together they were), assists (if someone shot a friend of yours, and you shot them in defense) and uh..a few more metrics I don't recall. Ultimately it was a team "lose" or "win".

Problem is, people play for kill stats, so someone hacked it to get it back. It's now a server-side option to have kill stats on / off.

Outlaw kill stats, and only outlaws will have kill stats?

Critical Hit
#9 by crash
2003-11-23 18:47:16
There is no "I" in "team." Then again, there's no "I" in "MVP," either. Individual scoring systems in team games is sort of pointless to me. All I ever kept track of was how many rounds we won. And in terms of "getting the credit for a kill," if you know you got it, what does it matter? Finally, any retard that screams "OMG KS" in any team-based environment needs to be taken out behind the barn and shot in the head.

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE
#10 by jafd
2003-11-23 18:50:22
It's all crap anyway. Unless there is money riding on the game, who gives a crap who won yesterday?

I want more stats and less scoring.

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#11 by Greg
2003-11-23 18:53:37
So how much do you have riding on the Seahawks game then?

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#12 by jafd
2003-11-23 18:58:10
Zero. Football bores the shit out of me.

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#13 by jafd
2003-11-23 18:58:26
Are they playing today?

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#14 by Darkseid-D
2003-11-23 19:03:24
rogerboal@hotmail.com
Mechwarrior 4 had this in its scoring system, you got ranked by the amount of damage you inflicted, even if you didnt get the kill. It prevented vulturing for the most part and rewarded/penalised people for damage done compared by tonnage, ie a jenner (30ton) scored better for shooting up an atlas (100 ton) than the converse, as the atlas could easily one shot the jenner (if the pilot was a quick/good enough shot).

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#15 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-23 19:16:36
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#1 Duality
IIRC, Soldier of Fortune 2 gave points for taking a % of HP away from an enemy, even if a teammate got the kill.

But at any rate, my idea for personal scoring modification is to remove the shit immediately!  These are teamplay games.  They are based on teamwork, which includes killing someone that your teammate might be targeting.

The only score that should be kept and displayed is that of the team.

I disagree.  You often want stats on how you, personally, are doing.  I like individual rankings within the team ranking.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#16 by Darkseid-D
2003-11-23 19:32:30
rogerboal@hotmail.com
Warren, isnt that what stat logging in UT is for ?

I agree however, it would be interesting to see a team score, then be able to hit another button and see your stats, weapons used, times fired, hits, accuracy, who you killed most, whos killed you most.  Would certainly add to game `watchability`, as we all know how sports fans LOVE their stats and figures on teams and players. Hell you cant watch a broadcast of a game without the commentator making statements like `this players made at least 89 yards rushing in every game hes played this season, thats up 5 yards from last year` ad nauseum.

Be interesting if the `commentator` in UT would have specific comments/taunts/remarks based on a players overall performance. Say `Player on a Losing streak` when they get dropped so many times in a row or, `Player is being schooled by Player2`, `Fabulous accuracy` when a player is consistently hitting with one weapon or so.

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#17 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-23 19:44:49
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Warren, isnt that what stat logging in UT is for ?

Not really.  I don't want to drop out to a web page in the middle of an online game to see how I'm doing overall.  I just want to know if I was the highest scoring defender that round or how many points I managed to accrue because, "You know, I killed a lot of people that round ... I wonder where I got to on the score board".

Nothing drives your attackers crazier than being top man on the scoreboard when all you did was play D.  Heh.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#18 by Marsh Davies
2003-11-23 19:51:43
www.verbalchilli.com
There is no "I" in "team."

A friend of mine was sent on a corporate teambuilding course. The greased up, smug consultant prat who was taking the course said those very words, to which my friend responded: "No, but there is a "you" in "cunt", isn't there?

#19 by BobJustBob
2003-11-23 19:57:29
Team scores are meaningless unless the team composition stays exactly the same for the entire game. Since that never happens, individual stats are the true measure of performance.

Dood.
#20 by Sgt Hulka
2003-11-23 20:13:50
There is no "I" in "team."


First of all, teambuilding courses are for idiots. I understand it's mandatory many places, but I see it as a total waste of time and nothing more than social engineering gone wrong.  In todays world of firing people, usually right before Christmas, in order show protifts in the 1st quarter of the next year to the shareholders, businesses might want to invest that time in classes like "How to defend yourself when a crazed ex-employee lunges at you armed with only a banana"

Secondly, there may be no "I" in team, but there is ME

#21 by BobJustBob
2003-11-23 20:28:27
There is 'tea' in 'team'. There is tea in me. There is 'me' in 'team'. It's the circle of life.

Dood.
#22 by lwf
2003-11-23 20:31:08
Enemy Territory.

a major player in the cowboy scene
#23 by UncleJeet
2003-11-23 20:37:41
BobJustBob
It's the circle of life.


Hakuna Matata, motherfucker!

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#24 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-23 21:01:08
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#21 BobJustBob
There is 'tea' in 'team'. There is tea in me. There is 'me' in 'team'. It's the circle of life.

There is "am" in team as well.  As in "You am dumb".

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#25 by Duality
2003-11-23 23:19:22
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
Fine, then if developers aren't going to get rid of individual scores, give me a "Fuck your mother!" option the next time some prick forgets that its a teamplay game.

Duality [bunge shot bonus] +10G
#26 by Darkseid-D
2003-11-23 23:50:46
rogerboal@hotmail.com
Yeah I know the web stuff was cool and looking your own stats uw as nifty.

How about including that kind of functionality INTO the game, maybe as a umod or have the stats etc visible in the player setup, inluding things like favourite model / taunt etc.

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#27 by jafd
2003-11-23 23:52:15
I would much rather have all the stats exported as a .txt file, than have it viewable in-game.

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#28 by lwf
2003-11-23 23:54:04
I'd rather have them automatically printed out in addition to faxed to the pentagon, myself. I don't think the actual game should contain any stats whatsever, this goes for every game.

a major player in the cowboy scene
#29 by Jibble
2003-11-24 00:02:58
But how will games ever be realized in a sports environment if we can't put stats on the player cards?  I mean, you have to put SOMETHING on the back side of the picture of the cheeto-dusted behemoth master of Counter-Strike...

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#30 by UncleJeet
2003-11-24 00:24:58
How does all this relate to Deus Ex?

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#31 by lwf
2003-11-24 00:30:27
This isn't the Deus Ex, topic.

God if I have to die you will have to die.
#32 by jafd
2003-11-24 00:32:33
It is now!

What's up with the tranq gun taking up so much faux-ammo per shot, huh?

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#33 by lwf
2003-11-24 00:34:11
Deus Ex 2 is going to sell at least a million copies, probably more like ten.

God if I have to die you will have to die.
#34 by Creole Ned
2003-11-24 00:37:14
Team-oriented games do not need individual scores but some personal stats at the end of the round would be nice. Being able to see your personal stats in-game (if they are tracked via a stat-gathering program) would be good, too. This doesn't really apply to Team DM, since it is solely concerned about shooting others until they are dead dead dead and nothing else.

And all of lwf's stats should be faxed to the Pentagon. Especially the highly personal ones.

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#35 by Gunp01nt
2003-11-24 00:40:30
supersimon33@hotmail.com
from my experience most players in team based games are largely focussed on individual performance. For instance one of my classmates, who is a fanatic DoD player, checks his stats twice every week resulting in exclamations like: "Yes! I totally owned on the MG42 again. 45 kills this week."

"The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data-mining algorithms."
#36 by Jibble
2003-11-24 00:41:20
Kill him.  It's the only way we can stop this madness.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#37 by Sgt Hulka
2003-11-24 01:22:28
Actress Elizabeth Taylor says she believes pop star and good friend Michael Jackson is "absolutely innocent" of child molestation charges and will be "vindicated."

In a statement on Sunday, Taylor also criticized the press for behaving "abominably" toward the self-styled King of Pop, who was arrested this week on suspicion of sexually abusing a young boy.

"Their whole reaction is that he is guilty. I thought the law was 'innocent until proven guilty.' I know he is innocent and I hope they all eat crow," Taylor said of the press.


Elizabeth. If you know he's innocent, why do you hope they eat crow?

#38 by jafd
2003-11-24 01:34:19
Because innocent people do go to prison. All the time.


I don't think MJ is innocent, but your question begs an answer.

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#39 by Sgt Hulka
2003-11-24 01:52:04
True, true...

#40 by Sgt Hulka
2003-11-24 05:41:24
BURGER KING To Allow Moms To Breast-Feed Babies Inside Restaurants...

Well, that's it.  I know where I'm eating lunch from now on!  The term WHOPPERS may take on a whole new life.

#41 by CheesyPoof
2003-11-24 06:04:27
In todays world of firing people, usually right before Christmas, in order show protifts in the 1st quarter of the next year to the shareholders,

Actually I think they lay people off at Christmas time more for tax purposes (roll people off the books for the current tax year ) that it is for immediate share holder value as companies fiscal year can be before or after the 1Q calendar year.

Re: scoring

I agree that personal scoring on a team game doesn't make sense if you are concerend about teamwork, but considering that a lot of people on a public server are idiots I need some cookie to keep playing if my team is losing.  I'd want to know, "yea you played great, but your team sucked" instead of "you lose!".  Since the developers want a lot of people to continue playing their game you have to include that cookie.  Ned's suggestion of just putting it at the end of a round is an OK one, but on a pub I'd like to know the stats during the round.
#42 by BobJustBob
2003-11-24 06:04:33
What do malted milk balls have to do with Burger King?

Dood.
#43 by Sgt Hulka
2003-11-24 07:03:25
uh.. nothing..  Thank you, drive thru.

That's true too Cheesy.

#44 by crash
2003-11-24 07:36:57
I wish I could say for sure this couldn't possibly be true, but...

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE
#45 by Bailey
2003-11-24 08:57:57
This is going to be a major blow to the D/s scene.

re: Avatar Icon
#46 by Jibble
2003-11-24 14:14:31
#40 Sgt Hulka

BURGER KING To Allow Moms To Breast-Feed Babies Inside Restaurants...

Well, that's it.  I know where I'm eating lunch from now on!  The term WHOPPERS may take on a whole new life.

Breast feeding while eating at Burger King?  This opens itself up for a whole new generation of obesity lawsuits.

The five percent nation of harmful free radicals
#47 by The_Joker
2003-11-24 14:25:14
http://www.jackinworld.com
weheeeeell, it's good to se everyone again. i've been away beating my meat, as i'm sure you can all imagine. just wanted to say hi. and now, back to python wrestling.

'sup trolly!


Note: I'm not kidding.

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
Mr. Jafd! It ends tonight...
#48 by m0nty
2003-11-24 16:02:48
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
I hope no one spills coffee on the breastfeeding women.
#49 by Marsh Davies
2003-11-24 16:29:03
www.verbalchilli.com
Baby Sues Maccy-D Mum In Scalding Teat Scandal.

#50 by Duality
2003-11-24 16:51:14
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
I think I'd allow it if it meant holding a pair of breasts in my lap.

Duality [bunge shot bonus] +10G
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