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T O P I C
NKOTB
November 17th 2003, 16:55 CET by Squeaky

There's going to be a new challenger in the graphics market: XGI. And they're looking to steal a piece of the graphics pie from nVidia and ATI.

Tom's Hardware has a preview here.

Let's look at some facts:
*The company, formerly known as Xabre, was spun off from SIS graphics division

*They aquired Trident's graphic subsidiary

*PowerColor and Club-3D are planning to manufacture cards based on XGI's designs, and it is rumoured that Gigabyte and ABIT will be as well

*They're planning a full range of products from enthusiest level right down to value level

Another interesting thing is their dual-chip design. Rather than designing a more complex chip to compete with ATI and nVidia, they're slapping two chips on one PCB. You can read up on the downsides of this at Toms.

Although this is a very early beta of the hardware, benchmarks do not look so promising. 3DMark and pre-recorded UT flybys are impressive. But the framerate takes a nose dive while actually playing games. As seen in both UT and Halo.

The Volari Duo V8 Ultra leaves us with a very mixed first impression. Despite the prototype status of our sample and its driver, the card was able to produce some very respectable results in some areas. These highlights are clouded by the problems with texture filtering and the stark performance drop-offs in some benchmarks and games.

XGI's driver team definitely has its work cut out for it. We can expect to see final boards with shipping status and WHQL drivers within the next one or two months, or so. That gives XGI's driver programmers a bit of time to iron out the kinks.


So, do these guys have a chance, or will they end up dead in the water?
C O M M E N T S
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#1 by Chunkstyle
2003-11-17 17:00:05
Dead in the water.  ATI, Nvidia and Intel already have cost effective low end hardware, any new competitors need to compete on performance and price.  These guys should just give up and hang out with the Bitboys.

I put the lime in the coconut, I drank it all up.
#2 by Battle-Dwarf
2003-11-17 17:02:44
www.myspace.com/OlSchoolMedia
Isn't this the same graphics chip to power that chess match against Gasparov?

B-D

Jibs, Jives and Jokes...
#3 by Matt Davis
2003-11-17 17:12:59
http://looroll.com
They won't do well in the west, but you can bet they'll take a reasonable chunk of the eastern market, especially places like China.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if you start to see the vidchips integrated into SiS motherboards in the not-so-distant future.

Troll, troll, troll your post, gently down the page...
#4 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-11-17 17:13:20
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
I don't get it.  Another shitty topic by a shitty author gets approved while my well-written and insightful look at Hulk Hogan and The Macho Man gets dismissed.  What the fuck is wrong with you people?

/me high-fives <insert recently deceased celebrity here>
#5 by Hugin
2003-11-17 17:15:42
lmccain@nber.org
Dead in the water.  Unless they can find some kind of big embedded business out there or something.  Retail PC sales?  Dead.
#6 by Jibble
2003-11-17 17:17:34
I see them crashing and burning.  It happened to 3dfx, it'll happen to these guys.  Market share is split pretty evenly between nVidia and ATI, and developers are obviously pandering to owners of both cards.  Trying to add a third standard is going to put too much pressure on dev's, so they simply won't bother with it.

<Bailey> Turnips! Potatoes! Animal husbandry! This is all I care about!
#7 by Dethstryk
2003-11-17 17:19:05
jemartin@tcainternet.com
If "aquired Trident's graphic subsidiary" means that they are basically using Trident guys to do their stuff... Trident isn't exactly, I don't know.. something that I find too impressive.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#8 by Duality
2003-11-17 17:19:19
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
The company, formerly known as Xabre, was spun off from SIS graphics division

I want to say this is not indicative of anything, but damn, I still harbor ill-will toward the SiS6326 chipset (and its inability to be disabled) for making me wait months before I could use my old Voodoo3 -- and waiting for 3Dfx to get off its collective asses to provide a multi-display feature in the drivers.

But really, what's the point in benchmarking beta hardware with its beta drivers?  Tom's Hardware even says that they're left with a mixed first impression.  What is it they're expecting from something that isn't yet ready for a first impression?

Duality [bunge shot bonus] +10G
#9 by deadlock
2003-11-17 17:27:01
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Can I just say that it was my 'yes' vote that got this topic to the front page and that I have absolutely no idea why I clicked 'yes'? Not that it's a bad topic, it's just that I have nothing interesting to say about it. See?

"You know you are doing art when everyone has an opinion of what you're doing." - Lexx, creator of the supremely stupid Doom for Columbine mod.
#10 by deadlock
2003-11-17 17:27:09
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Can I just say that it was my 'yes' vote that got this topic to the front page and that I have absolutely no idea why I clicked 'yes'? Not that it's a bad topic, it's just that I have nothing interesting to say about it. See?

"You know you are doing art when everyone has an opinion of what you're doing." - Lexx, creator of the supremely stupid Doom for Columbine mod.
#11 by deadlock
2003-11-17 17:28:36
http://www.deadlocked.org/
So unininteresting, I said it twice. Yay me.

"You know you are doing art when everyone has an opinion of what you're doing." - Lexx, creator of the supremely stupid Doom for Columbine mod.
#12 by Duality
2003-11-17 17:28:53
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
You can say it, but only once.

Duality [bunge shot bonus] +10G
#13 by Your Friend
2003-11-17 17:29:09
Their real problem is Intel, not Nvidia or ATI. As Hugin mentioned, they really need embedded sales.  ATI and Nvidia's real problems in video are Intel too -- not each other, as some would guess from all the sissyfighting they do in public...

As far as XGI having formerly been Trident..well Trident was once a real player in the graphics card market, and considering how much ATI turned things around from sucktitude to greatness with the Radeon line, I wouldn't be so quick to count anyone out based on their recent past.

But yeah, the odds are stacked way against them...

Comment Signature
#14 by BobJustBob
2003-11-17 17:33:22
To jafd and anyone else who watches Karen Sisco, it's gone but not cancelled.

Dood.
#15 by Dethstryk
2003-11-17 17:33:50
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Trident was great for, you know, 2D stuff.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#16 by Charles
2003-11-17 17:37:06
www.bluh.org
I like my 9800 pro.

christmas is for shopping and the shopping god is everything
#17 by Jibble
2003-11-17 17:45:18
#14 BobJustBob

To jafd and anyone else who watches Karen Sisco, it's gone but not cancelled.

Fourteen posts?  That's gotta be a new record.

<Bailey> Turnips! Potatoes! Animal husbandry! This is all I care about!
#18 by yotsuya
2003-11-17 17:48:42
Jibble-

Topics have been derailed in the initial post, n00b.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#19 by Charles
2003-11-17 17:51:33
www.bluh.org
True PCers know that a successful hijack can only happen on the fourth post.

christmas is for shopping and the shopping god is everything
#20 by BobJustBob
2003-11-17 17:54:04
I'm in the same boat as deadlock. I voted yes because I thought it was a decently written topic, but I have nothing to say about it. I can periodically mention that PC gaming is dead if I really must make a contribution, but otherwise I'll just quietly sit over here in the corner.

Dood.
#21 by Creole Ned
2003-11-17 17:56:01
Retail sales = dead dead dead. OEM might do better. I don't have much more to say about it but I would like to take the opportunity to clench my fist and wave it angrily in the general direction of Intel, which, after being driven out of the retail video card market, turned around and embedded their eminently crappy chipsets onto their motherboards, helping to ensure that millions of systems would ship with really mediocre 3D graphics.

It's 2003, the baseline PC should at least be up somewhere around GF2 standards for integrated video. Intel's offerings are like New ViRGE.

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#22 by crash
2003-11-17 18:16:10
Dead in the water. Looking at the stats, this amalgamation of acquisitions is a great thing if you're into 2D, but I don't see a single 3D manufacturer, company, or chipset in there anywhere. And given the current state of 3D graphics, now's not a good time to be cutting your teeth on making 3D chipsets.

They'll be a flash in the pan until and unless they come up with something good. Then nVidia or ATI will buy them, those patents, and that technology.

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE
#23 by yotsuya
2003-11-17 18:18:34
Maybe they'll become the official chip supplier for the Phantom console?

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#24 by Jibble
2003-11-17 18:21:08
I think they hired Broussard for that...he's developing it himself out of leftover cheeseburgers and tater tots...

<Bailey> Turnips! Potatoes! Animal husbandry! This is all I care about!
#25 by Jibble
2003-11-17 18:21:20
It'll be the most delicious console to date!

<Bailey> Turnips! Potatoes! Animal husbandry! This is all I care about!
#26 by Your Friend
2003-11-17 18:22:11

Trident was great for, you know, 2D stuff.


Yeah but the same was true for ATI before the Radeon.  Between not-so-great hardware like the Rage3D and drivers that made the underpowered hardware even less usable, ATI seemed like a big also-ran until the Radeon-era (though, financial-wise, it is important to note they were still very strong, as they were the ones responsible for crapping up OEM video on motherboards before Intel claimed that spot).  So I'm willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt that they can turn things around...

Also, the more the merrier rule applies here -- if ATI and Nvidia have a third party to worry about, it could drive prices down at the mid and high-end, thus speeding adoption, and making the PC gaming wheel turn faster.  The whole economic meltdown really threw a wrench in the PC gaming upgrade cycle, and more competition could help grease it up a bit, perhaps.  As Ned said, it would be nice if you could release mainstream (eg, not Doom3) games that assumed Joe Compaq had a GF2 or higher, but you really can't right now.    Quite sadly you still have to worry about all the people with TNT2 and Intel Extreme3D chipsets, which really holds you back.

Comment Signature
#27 by BobJustBob
2003-11-17 18:25:55
This thread exemplifies everything that is wrong with PC gaming.

/me goes back to the corner

Dood.
#28 by Your Friend
2003-11-17 18:27:11

And given the current state of 3D graphics, now's not a good time to be cutting your teeth on making 3D chipsets.


I don't agree with this.  With the near-extinction of the fixed graphics pipeline that we are now faced with, I think it actually opens the market up to newcomers more than it has been since 3dfx's blunders.  

With enough financiancing and adoption in Asia, I could see XGI being pretty successful.  They won't be the choice for hardcore gamers or anything like that, but they aren't trying to be, and that market isn't even that big really (extremely vocal minority) as you can see from Nvidia's planned shift to focus more on OEM/embedded and less on the highend retail add-in cards.

Comment Signature
#29 by Creole Ned
2003-11-17 18:29:52
Not to derail the topic, exactly, but does anyone have any insight into PCI Express? Is it going to usher in a new golden era for video cards or will it just be a mild improvement over what we have now with AGP? I've poked around a few sites and haven't really gleaned much from them.

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#30 by Your Friend
2003-11-17 18:42:34
Moving to PCI Express will be a big and useful change, but it will be spread out so much that you won't notice it so much in any one specific area.  In essence it will be similar to the jump from ISA to PCI, and it has a bit more to do with giving fast bus speeds to the *non*videocad devices in your system (very fast NICs, fast RAID storage, etc), which are currently starving on PCI while the graphics card gets the nice AGP bus.

As far as graphics cards go, I wouldn't expect any huge noticable change above current AGP.  Basically you'll be seeing "AGP16X" as opposed to the current AGP8 so extrapolate based on AGP2X->AGP4X->AGP8X differences (not much).  Of course, *if* in the course of moving to PCI Express many motherboard makers start integrating good UMA (unified memory, shared between the graphics bus and CPU/system memory, ala the Xbox) support into their systems, things could improve a lot because of that.

Comment Signature
#31 by yotsuya
2003-11-17 19:11:07
I think I'd be more interested in seeing this than the Paris Hilton video:

LAS VEGAS (AP) - Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) Chairman Bill Gates has announced new junk e-mail filtering technology called SmartScreen at his keynote address at the annual Comdex trade show in Las Vegas.

A humorous video was also prepared for the address, depicting Gates and chief executive Steve Ballmer in a spoof of the popular futuristic film, The Matrix. Gates took the role of spiritual guide Morpheus who gives Ballmer - playing Neo, the savior - an "innovation pill" to aid him in battling competitors.


"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#32 by Matt Perkins
2003-11-17 19:13:18
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Yeah, someone post this video already.

I'm the spoon
#33 by jafd
2003-11-17 19:13:44
#31 yotsuya
the Paris Hilton video:
ed2k://|file|Paris.Hilton.Sex.tape.avi|351457280|2E572851959D18B5847B39108076687D|/

I haven't downloaded this, but 850 sources can't be wrong. You want this for directing tips, right?

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#34 by yotsuya
2003-11-17 19:15:31
Well, she has to have SOME talent, right? Why else is she a "celebrity"? I think I hate the Hollywood/Entertainment Tonight Celebrity Machine as much as you do professional baseball.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#35 by Hugin
2003-11-17 19:21:25
lmccain@nber.org
Supposedly she just had some scene from her reality show cut, because she didn't want to embarass her parents.  Has she reviewed her behavior, week in and week out over the past two years?
#36 by Duality
2003-11-17 19:22:06
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
Paris Hilton's only real skill is in crashing parties, from what I've read.

Duality [bunge shot bonus] +10G
#37 by Hugin
2003-11-17 19:39:51
lmccain@nber.org
Crashing parties.  Having inappropriate affairs.  Embarassing herself in public. Etc.
#38 by Jibble
2003-11-17 19:40:21
But she has a rich daddy!  She's noteworthy!

<Bailey> Turnips! Potatoes! Animal husbandry! This is all I care about!
#39 by Gunp01nt
2003-11-17 19:40:28
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Re: Volari:

It doesn't look as bad as it could have, and I was actually surprised the company was able to produce something viable, in harsh contrast to, say, BitBoys Oi Nuttah.

If they can crank out Volari Duo's at a low price, there's definitely a place for them in the budget market, IMHO. And from there, they can slowly work their way up, earn money for their R&D and eventually come up to par with Nvidia and ATI.
Actually their starting status resembles ATI's position of a couple of years ago, and look where ATI got in the meantime. Just because they won't crush the competition with one swift stroke doesn't mean they can't eventually become a major player.

Electroclash=love
#40 by Trolly McTroll
2003-11-17 19:43:43
#36 Duality
Paris Hilton's only real skill is in crashing parties, from what I've read.


Her tape sucked, but Will Forte's sex tape rocks!

'Sup Warrun

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"Fuck are you stupid. Kiwi is a bird. Fucking moron. " - lwf
#41 by Matt Perkins
2003-11-17 19:54:34
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Well, I meant the Bill Gates video as I have no idea who Paris Hilton is.

I'm the spoon
#42 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-17 19:55:59
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#41 Matt Perkins
Well, I meant the Bill Gates video as I have no idea who Paris Hilton is.

Welcome to the Internet.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#43 by lwf
2003-11-17 20:16:42
hahah making fun of the internet is so funny. stupid internet.

with your teeth to your lips and your head to the ground
hear the fish and they're makin' this sound sayin'
"we just wanna go walkin' around, feel what it's like to fall down"
#44 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-17 20:23:53
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#43 lwf
hahah making fun of the internet is so funny. stupid internet.

Reading comprehension is vastly overrated.  Rage against that machine, good sir!

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#45 by UncleJeet
2003-11-17 20:37:57
Have I mentioned Nocturne lately?

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#46 by BobJustBob
2003-11-17 20:40:37
Yes, I believe you said 'shit' just yesterday.

Dood.
#47 by UncleJeet
2003-11-17 20:41:19
You make my heart sad, you know that don't you?

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#48 by E-ph0nk
2003-11-17 20:44:55
http://www.electrophonk.be
#45 Quickinfo: At least one of the artist from Nocturne works for 3DR now... It seems he is doing the modeling & texturing using normal mapping for DNF.

*sigh*
#49 by "NumbNuts"
2003-11-17 21:44:06
You got the right stuff, baby
Love the way you turn me on
You got the right stuff, baby
You're the reason why I sing this song
All that I needed was you
Oh girl, you're so right
Said all that I wanted was you
You made all my dreams come true
#50 by Shadarr
2003-11-17 22:00:14
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I'd never heard of Paris Hilton before last week, and I still don't care enough to download the video.  It's not like she's the sexiest woman alive or something, why would I want to see amateur porn of some rich chick?
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