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"We're not playing games here, this is business!"
November 3rd 2003, 22:04 CET by Gunp01nt

Caryn recently posted a quote from John Carmack saying he thought the FPS genre would be around forever because of the versatility of the genre: there is a lot of variation between various FPS titles. This made me think.

Of course Carmack is right, but it's kind of an open door to say FPS games won't get boring because of the variety they allow. Take a look at the One Big Defunct Genre: adventures. Why do FPS games remain interesting / popular, whereas adventure games have been written off long ago?

The variation argument does apply: the point-and-click adventure genre is in its essence more limiting than the FPS genre. But FPS games have another property that, I think, explains their popularity better.

Look at the 3 most popular genres in PC gaming. You'll find FPS, RTS and RPG: three genres that have one thing in common: a competitive nature. Whereas adventure games solely provide entertainment, FPS, RTS and RPG games are built around matching the player's skills with those of others. The rising popularity of gaming events and competitions such as the WCG or the CPL are a sign that the gaming industry might be about to reach a whole new level.

Take a look at popular sports such as football, baseball, soccer,... they all started out as a form of entertainment, but over time it has become possible to make money, even a living, by playing these sports. The same now seems to be happening for gaming and given the increase in media attention to gaming events (even the Dutch eight o' clock news reported the Dutch victories at the recent WCG in Korea), it might mean computer gaming may someday reach the same level of popularity and mainstream attention as regular sports.
Hell, why not? Professional chess is considered to be a sport. And so is Bridge. But the one difference from all these sports is that computer gaming has a very very wide definition. You not only have three major genres, you also have a variety of games inside those genres.

Nevertheless several game developers have adopted competitive gaming so it's not unthinkable that we may see just one genre (maybe a new hybrid genre) of games and one game everybody plays. There might be a unified set of rules and regulations for computer games, which would have great effects on the game designing process.

So what is the probability of this happening? Will a big portion of the gaming industry rip itself loose from the rest and transform into professional sports? What are the prerequisites needed for this to happen?
And would it be a good or a bad thing?
C O M M E N T S
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#1 by Shadarr
2003-11-03 22:11:21
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I don't think so.  I think the number of people who never play multi dwarfs those that do.  And even among those that play "competitively", few really take it seriously.  In a lot of cases I think playing against a human opponent is a way to make up for the crappy AI.  In others it's for the social aspect.  I think the competetive aspect only arises for a small percentage of gamers.

The other thing to remember is that pro sports got where they are today because of the spectators, not the players.  Does anyone want to watch a televised CS tournament?  I sure as hell don't.  Until someone comes up with a way to present games as entertainment for spectators, the tournaments will be better compared to competetive Scrabble or crossword puzzles than pro football.
#2 by "Anonymous"
2003-11-03 22:20:11
all you need is sims
#3 by Gunp01nt
2003-11-03 22:22:47
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Yay!

Shadarr:
I do agree that the number of fanatical online-players is smaller than that of those that play casually, but everytime I go to a LAN party I see a lot of clans showing up mainly for the competitions (and the prizes that come with it).

I was once involved in the organisation of a medium-size LAN-party and one of the most frequent points of advice we got from other LAN-party crews, was to ensure we had competitions with prizes because those are a major crowd drawer, so I'm assuming it is that way for most LAN-parties.

A couple of times I've seen qualification rounds for the WCG take place at a LAN party and the sheer fanaticism with which those people play kinda scares me.
Events like the WCG get a lot of attention, even in the mass media, so I wonder if the sheer number of participants that this type of event allows for doesn't make up for the lack of spectator interest.
Moreover, demo files of big CS wars are often hot downloads at sites like ClanBase. So there is some entertainment value in there, people like to watch the most amazing kills, apparently.

I don't think soccer or football had any entertainment value in the beginning, but the increasing skill of the players, the forming of teams to support and all that, have created it. And at LAN-parties I see a lot of people focussed on the projection screens or observing from behind the players during the finale of a Counterstrike competition.

Electroclash=love
#4 by yotsuya
2003-11-03 22:32:13
GP-

If they show the World Series of Poker on ESPN2, anything is possible.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#5 by Caryn
2003-11-03 22:33:00
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
This post reminded me of some related thoughts I had this week as Call of Duty came out.

The competitive gaming scene has been anxiously awaiting CoD for weeks -- The TWL has been planning a tournament for quite a while now, and many other outlets are putting together competitions. And all of this was gearing up well before the game's release, when all people knew was, "it has team-based multiplayer."

This really intrigued me, but also worried me on some level. There are some natural assumptions you can make based on previous titles that have been used for competitive play -- Wolfenstein and MoH all share the same engine as CoD, and all have team-based, WWII-based multiplayer. So the assumption is that if those titles were suited for competitive play, then CoD will be, too.

I worried about this assumption, because IW was setting out to create a fantastic single player game, and while the multiplayer is really fun, it sort of happened even to our surprise, I think. And while I had beta tested the MP before release and knew that it was a fun, team-based MP experience, I wondered how suited it would be to competitive play, and leagues and clans were already signing up for huge CoD tournaments online based on nothing more than knowing it was team-based multiplayer.

This bothered me a bit because the competitive gaming scene, I've learned, is very, very specific about their needs for a game to work well in a tournament, especially one in which tens of thousands of dollars are on the line. They have to be: you have to have precisely balanced everything. The minutia that the competitive scene discusses when it comes to competitive Wolfenstein is amazing to me, because it's at such a deep level of balance that even as a hardcore gamer myself I wouldn't notice or care about if I'm not playing a tournament.

Now, I think CoD is going to translate into a terrific competitive gaming platform for these guys. However, I've been worried that they're basing enormous plans on a title that we didn't intend for that use, and that there are going to be really detailed gameplay issues that they're going to be frustrated not because the game is inferior, but because what they require, really, is a game specifically created for online competitions, and no retail game has yet been made for that purpose (closest I can think of is the UT2K series, and I'm not even sure that qualifies -- maybe Warren can talk about that). When they use a game that has cool multiplayer but wasn't created with the very specific needs of online competitive gaming in mind, they often feel that the game is inferior, when really it's just a matter of what audience it was designed for.

"I'll sell you the idea for $50,000 and you can go from game developer zero to game developer hero." - Leslie
#6 by Matt Perkins
2003-11-03 22:33:05
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Should RPG be catorigized as a competitive sort of game?  Maybe a MMORPG, but not the basic Icewind Dale type game.  You are essentially playing an adventure game (adventure and rpg have always been similar) with more features.  How does that fit into the competitive idea?



I don' think the video game industry will split into competitive and non-competitive.  Just like now, there will be different facets of the industry that will work for different groups.


The other thing to remember is that pro sports got where they are today because of the spectators, not the players.  Does anyone want to watch a televised CS tournament?  I sure as hell don't.  Until someone comes up with a way to present games as entertainment for spectators, the tournaments will be better compared to competetive Scrabble or crossword puzzles than pro football.

I don't think this will hold true forever.  Will want to watch more video game contests as those games become more life like.  As the graphics and physics (or lack thereof) simulation becomes better, the want to see those things in action will be greater.

#7 by Shadarr
2003-11-03 22:35:52
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I still think it's more akin to other hobbies that people get too invovled in.  Competetive paintball, for example.  I had a friend who got really into paintball, and was on a team that travelled around to various competitions.  He got so good that it wasn't fun to just go out and play with friends anymore.  So, is paintball the next huge sports sensation?  No, because much like FPS tournaments it sucks to watch.

The people you describe going to LAN parties makes sense, because the people who are willing to haul their boxes around to play with strangers are not going to be normal gamers.  By definition, they already have more invested in the passtime.

It could be, though, that this sort of thing is bigger in Europe than over here.  I've never seen anything about gaming tournaments in the mainstream press, and very rarely even in gaming media.
#8 by Jibble
2003-11-03 22:41:07
#6 Matt Perkins
I don't think this will hold true forever.  Will want to watch more video game contests as those games become more life like.  As the graphics and physics (or lack thereof) simulation becomes better, the want to see those things in action will be greater.

Which reminds me, have you seen the new Nike commercial...the CG Football game?  One of the best produced ads I've seen.  I think if graphics/physics ever see the kind of detail in gaming that comes from a commercial like that, I'd watch gaming on TV.

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#9 by jafd
2003-11-03 22:41:38
#5 Caryn
The minutia that the competitive scene discusses when it comes to competitive Wolfenstein is amazing to me, because it's at such a deep level of balance that even as a hardcore gamer myself I wouldn't notice or care about if I'm not playing a tournament.

May we have some examples of this, please? Links to ranting forum posts would be fine for me, I'm just curious.

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#10 by bago
2003-11-03 22:44:05
manga_Rando@hotmail.com

Which reminds me, have you seen the new Nike commercial...the CG Football game?  One of the best produced ads I've seen.  I think if graphics/physics ever see the kind of detail in gaming that comes from a commercial like that, I'd watch gaming on TV.


Link?

You DARE to worship a god other than Allah? Allah does not know who this "Ctulhu" character is, kufr, but when he finds out he is going to kick that Jew deity down a flight of fucking stairs.
#11 by yotsuya
2003-11-03 22:47:34
My son saw that commercial and thought it was a game, as well. It was interesting.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#12 by Caryn
2003-11-03 22:47:46
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
#9 jafd
[May we have some examples of this, please? Links to ranting forum posts would be fine for me, I'm just curious.


I don't have specific examples handy at the moment. I'm also not talking about ranting -- don't confuse me "discussing the minutia" as "ranting". What they're discussing is important from a competitive gaming sense, but the general gamer just isn't going to care about the issues they feel hurt or help the game. One particularly virulent discussion was certain cvar settings and what the range should be set for in a tournament.

Just browse through the forums at any competitive gaming place, like the TWL, , or [url=http://www.esreality.com/]ESReality, or even the Wolf fan sites -- there's always a few competitive gaming discussions about really detailed particulars.

But you probably won't find too many for Wolf now since it's been out a while, and the OSP guys have filled the needs of the competitive scene with their mod for Wolf, so there's not as much discussion on what changes are needed to make the game work for the tournament scene. I expect to see a lot of it, though, for CoD.

"I'll sell you the idea for $50,000 and you can go from game developer zero to game developer hero." - Leslie
#13 by Dethstryk
2003-11-03 22:51:13
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Caryn

I think your concerns could have been addressed by a simple notion of calling these people retards, as anyone who is going to make a tournament based upon a game that isn't out yet because it's going to be good, which they don't know, is clearly lacking some vital area of logical though processes.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#14 by Matt Perkins
2003-11-03 22:53:26
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Which reminds me, have you seen the new Nike commercial...the CG Football game?  One of the best produced ads I've seen.  I think if graphics/physics ever see the kind of detail in gaming that comes from a commercial like that, I'd watch gaming on TV.

I saw that.  Dear god, that was amazing.  I'd play any game that looked like that...  Having only seen it once, it seemed to mix CG and real life, not sure.  Either way, it was incredible.  Stupid Nike and their absolutley amazing commercials.  If they'd just quit with the slave labor business, I'd become a corporate shill for them.

#15 by Gunp01nt
2003-11-03 22:55:00
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Shadarr:
It could be, though, that this sort of thing is bigger in Europe than over here.  I've never seen anything about gaming tournaments in the mainstream press, and very rarely even in gaming media.


Hm, I always thought the US and Canada had a huge competitive gaming scene, what with the penetration of broadband.

But yeah, in the Netherlands competitive play is really big. Over the past few years the number of LAN-parties out here has multiplied like rabbits. Now there are usually multiple big LAN's in varying places around the country. Big LAN's like Campzone or Ambience even make the evening news and get coverage in all the major newspapers (picture on frontpage, article on page 3, stuff like that.). The recent WCG in Korea got even more coverage, with some of the Dutch guys that raked in gold medals appearing in tv shows.

Electroclash=love
#16 by Trolly McTroll
2003-11-03 23:00:44
We need more games about cloned cows making entire countries sick with mad cow disease.  Now that would be a great movie.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"Great, we are being trolled by Paul Schaffer. - LPMiller
"heh." - Squeaky
"You never know how a cow catches a rabbit" - Ashiran
#17 by Shadarr
2003-11-03 23:03:44
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Gunpoint,

Yeah, we get none of that here.  Maybe the penetration of broadband actually lessens the need to congregate for multplayer gaming.

The only time gaming gets in the news at all is the standard "do games make kids kill" fearmongering.  In a lot of ways, I'm glad gamers aren't getting put on the cover.
#18 by Charles
2003-11-03 23:06:17
www.bluh.org
What these competitive people need aren't retail games.  They need games tailored specifically to what they want.  Just like professional racing doesn't involve cars that you buy at the dealer, competitive gaming needs their own particular game, with its own particular features.  I just hope developers don't all try to jump at it.  The last thing I want is for every game to become some nightmare of hardcore influence.

christmas is for shopping and the shopping god is everything
#19 by Shadarr
2003-11-03 23:12:00
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Sounds to me like the mod scene is already taking care of the hardcore competetive gamer's needs.  Which is as it should be.
#20 by Your Friend
2003-11-03 23:13:19
Deth is right, gamers are retards...  competitive MP games doubly so.

Comment Signature
#21 by None-1a
2003-11-03 23:17:06
Gunp01nt games purely as entertainment are far from going out of style. The much talked about adventure gaming death never happened (small companies still turn them out and games like the RE and Silent Hill series are at their core adventure games), hell the big three FPS coming out are anticipated for their SP entertainment side rather then the competitive MP stuff.

Personally I really believe a good amount of FPS/RTS/MP-RPG popularity comes from more people looking for free on-line gaming news. Since those sources have always focused on on-line (and inherently competitive) games it helps feed into the popularity.

As for big chunks of the industry ripping off to focus on competitive pro gaming, not going to happen or even can. Professional gaming needs to have a rather limited set of variations on gameplay because you can't expect people to learn a new variation with every tournament or round. It just gets to a point where things get too competitive for people to afford the time need to really shine at those variations. There just isn't enough market there to really support 'big' sections. A handful of companies sure but the real link will probably be increased marketing for more entertainment oriented games built on the same engines or settings (think along the lines of the new CS game's SP stuff).
#22 by Caryn
2003-11-03 23:19:16
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
#19 Shadarr
Sounds to me like the mod scene is already taking care of the hardcore competetive gamer's needs.  Which is as it should be.


Exactly, which is why I'm hoping the OSP mod team makes a version for CoD. They've filled that void perfectly.

"I'll sell you the idea for $50,000 and you can go from game developer zero to game developer hero." - Leslie
#23 by Charles
2003-11-03 23:20:42
www.bluh.org
I hate the hardcore gamer's need for balance.  Drives me up the wall.  Having perfect balance takes out any kind of entertaining situation... which I suppose is what they want, really.  But having an unbalanced situation leads to far more entertaining moments.

christmas is for shopping and the shopping god is everything
#24 by Matt Perkins
2003-11-03 23:30:26
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I hate the hardcore gamer's need for balance.  Drives me up the wall.  Having perfect balance takes out any kind of entertaining situation... which I suppose is what they want, really.  But having an unbalanced situation leads to far more entertaining moments.


Want to elaborate?  I'm not seeing where you're coming from on this.

#25 by jafd
2003-11-03 23:32:28
Charles with a shotgun and twenty guys with rocket launchers == instant fun!

"It was fucking RPGotY, fucker!"
#26 by Your Friend
2003-11-03 23:48:06
After the whole bit about "Quake 2 shouldn't have footsteps in professional tournament play" I stopped listening to the competitive playing idiots.... and you should too.

Comment Signature
#27 by Gunp01nt
2003-11-04 00:05:29
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Charles:
Having perfect balance takes out any kind of entertaining situation... which I suppose is what they want, really.  But having an unbalanced situation leads to far more entertaining moments.


It all depends on perspective.
Let's take the CS map de_dust, for instance. It's the most popular Counter-Strike map by far. I've played that map a bazillion times and can walk through it with my eyes closed for three laps (at one LAN party I was so tired that I actually tried this).
The reason why it's the most popular is because of that balance. The two teams always meet exactly at the same spot if they both make their way equally fast. Neither the CT's nor the T's have any real tactical advantage, which rules out the game or the arena as a decisive factor in who's gonna win. Balance means that one round the CT's may win, and the next round the T's win because both sides get an equal opportunity.
Maps with bad balance tend to get boring because either one of the teams gets the upper hand too easily. Plus it's not fair to the team on the 'bad' side of the map, because they have a big disadvantage that they can't do much about.


none-1a:
The much talked about adventure gaming death never happened (small companies still turn them out and games like the RE and Silent Hill series are at their core adventure games)

the adventure genre does sort of live on through the action-adventure hybrid, but the vintage type of adventure game (mostly meaning point-and-click, search for clues, talk to people, explore the scenery) was last seen in the form of Monkey Island 4 and Myst 3, whereas this genre had very frequent releases in the past, with Lucasarts and Sierra both producing game after game.

Electroclash=love
#28 by lwf
2003-11-04 00:14:31
Siege used to be the most popular map.

like a crosseyed baby teething on a rusty knife
#29 by G-Man
2003-11-04 00:21:10
The real problem with gaming as a sport is that unlike most televised sports there isn't a single focus, e.g. there is no "ball" to watch. So when the games are televised who do you watch? A specific player? Do you edit it to try to catch the most deaths or whatever? Even in a game based in a realistic setting with intuitive objectives and limited respawns (e.g. Counter-Strike) it can be very challenging if not impossible to edit a demo so that a coherent story emerges for the viewer to observe. You'll understand the problem if you try to listen to announced matches that have been conducted.

Also the obvious problem of a lack of a single standardized game hurts the progress of a game as sport. Unreal2KX is a step in the right direction, but it is still too specific. What is really needed are completely standardised and locked down maps, physics and weapons, the details and the graphical effects can vary but the maps, physics and weapons need to remain the same and be designed for viewability above all (i.e. very few rooms).
#30 by Gunp01nt
2003-11-04 00:22:12
supersimon33@hotmail.com
yeah, along with Assault. But ever since all the experimentation with the vehicle in Siege (hilarious but buggy) and the fact that Assault eventually got boring, Dust sorta took over. Dust2 is coming in close behind it.

Electroclash=love
#31 by None-1a
2003-11-04 00:45:48
G-man the lack of a clear focal point isn't a major issues since it's already been handled by other sports. Racing has only one clear focal point with the leader, which can be damn dull when they're doing well. To over come that there's basically a list of focus events that take over from the standard camera rotation to follow lead pack (and following the lead pack is important as seen with a number of F1 races over the last few years). The same could easily be done with gaming (general shots of the largest collection of players with goal events, multiple kills and game/tourney leaders kills mixed in).
#32 by Caryn
2003-11-04 00:49:40
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
I think you can also argue that there are focal points in some of the more popular tournament games, they're just not as obvious as a ball. There's the C4 or the hostages in Counterstrike; there's the objective points in Wolfenstein/ET.

"I'll sell you the idea for $50,000 and you can go from game developer zero to game developer hero." - Leslie
#33 by E-ph0nk
2003-11-04 00:54:37
http://www.electrophonk.be
I loved the beach landing in BF1942, although it wasn't balanced at all... The times you did win the game (ie. captured the beach), you felt more like you achieved something.

*sigh*
#34 by Dethstryk
2003-11-04 01:13:42
jemartin@tcainternet.com
In war, people don't like having balanced battles. The American side was on the losing side of the balance scale at Omaha.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#35 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-11-04 07:38:53
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
My son saw that commercial as well.  He was like "Dad!  That looks like a wicked Football game!  I bet it's for XBOX!!", and I was like "WTF MAN I DON'T HAVE A SON WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU"

/me high-fives <insert recently deceased celebrity here>
#36 by bago
2003-11-04 08:11:44
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
If you have a decent command structure, a war is ideally EXTREMELY unbalanced.

You can take over an entire country in three weeks and lose less soldiers then those that died in 5 minutes at Omaha beach.

You DARE to worship a god other than Allah? Allah does not know who this "Ctulhu" character is, kufr, but when he finds out he is going to kick that Jew deity down a flight of fucking stairs.
#37 by Squeaky
2003-11-04 08:58:20
#15 Gunp01nt
Shadarr:
It could be, though, that this sort of thing is bigger in Europe than over here.  I've never seen anything about gaming tournaments in the mainstream press, and very rarely even in gaming media.


Hm, I always thought the US and Canada had a huge competitive gaming scene, what with the penetration of broadband.

The only time gaming makes it into mainstream media in NA, is when either some kid shoots up his school because the cacodemons in doom told him to, or when a bunch of koreans start killing eachother outside an internet cafe.

spooky
DVDs
#38 by Squeaky
2003-11-04 09:02:27
#36 bago
If you have a decent command structure, a war is ideally EXTREMELY unbalanced.

You can take over an entire country in three weeks and lose less soldiers then those that died in 5 minutes at Omaha beach.

Sure, if your invading some fantasyland like Canuckistan.

spooky
DVDs
#39 by bago
2003-11-04 09:45:50
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Over 3000 US soldiers died on Omaha beach.

378 soldiers died during the 3 week Iraq War in 2003.

Almost a ten to one ratio.


Only 5-10k People TOTAL died during the recent Iraq war.

Overwhelming force means your war is over quickly, and less people die.

(hell, in three montsh there's less dead people overall because the baathist party was removed. When you kill 1500 people a month in peacetime....)

You DARE to worship a god other than Allah? Allah does not know who this "Ctulhu" character is, kufr, but when he finds out he is going to kick that Jew deity down a flight of fucking stairs.
#40 by lwf
2003-11-04 09:47:00
People are like money.

like a crosseyed baby teething on a rusty knife
#41 by bago
2003-11-04 09:48:01
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
You are SO money.

You DARE to worship a god other than Allah? Allah does not know who this "Ctulhu" character is, kufr, but when he finds out he is going to kick that Jew deity down a flight of fucking stairs.
#42 by The_Joker
2003-11-04 10:20:19
http://www.jackinworld.com
I just finished a 3 day JERKATHON. Man was it awesome. I can't touch my wang right now beause it hurts like hell. I was like beating it over 12 times a day.

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#43 by The_Joker
2003-11-04 10:33:37
http://www.jackinworld.com
#42 This also explains why I was not posting here a few days.

Also, this topic is dryer than jafd's vagina.

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#44 by bago
2003-11-04 10:36:29
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Try a real one someday...

You DARE to worship a god other than Allah? Allah does not know who this "Ctulhu" character is, kufr, but when he finds out he is going to kick that Jew deity down a flight of fucking stairs.
#45 by Gunp01nt
2003-11-04 13:17:36
supersimon33@hotmail.com
caryn:
I think you can also argue that there are focal points in some of the more popular tournament games, they're just not as obvious as a ball. There's the C4 or the hostages in Counterstrike; there's the objective points in Wolfenstein/ET.


there are video clips (recorded from the ingame demos) of nearly every war between two major clans available online, and most of them focus on things like one player rushing into a room and succeeding in killing 5 opponents at once. Every confrontation between players is shown, as are the round start and how either side won the round.

Usually a well-organised war will have a few spectators in the game that act like virtual camera-men and try to get all the action on screen. Like I said, demos of big wars are hot downloads. Given good 'camera work' and direction, online wars can be quite entertaining and I think it'll appeal to a lot of people that casually play games.

Electroclash=love
#46 by None-1a
2003-11-04 13:32:32
#32 by Caryn
I think you can also argue that there are focal points in some of the more popular tournament games, they're just not as obvious as a ball.


However they're not direct action points with in the game as well. With a stick and ball sport the action always happens where the ball is, with an tournament video game the objective (ie clear focal point) is just as likely to be completed in a boring single person manor while the action takes place else where as a distraction. That fact gives people that think about pro level sports only in terms of baseball, basketball and football (both kinds) fits.
#47 by """""Balderama"""""
2003-11-04 14:22:04
support@real.com
OMG Joker is SO FUCKED. Prepare to be bombed!

"We believe there is the potential for an emerging terrorist threat," he added. "Suriname, for example, is about 35 percent Muslim [and] has a historical nexus to Indonesia, the home of Jemaah Islamiyah, which is affiliated with al Qaeda and responsible for the Bali bombing" last year.
#48 by Trolly McTroll
2003-11-04 15:13:59
#35 DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
My son saw that commercial as well.  He was like "Dad!  That looks like a wicked Football game!  I bet it's for XBOX!!", and I was like "WTF MAN I DON'T HAVE A SON WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU"


That was me.  

'sup Death Killer

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"Great, we are being trolled by Paul Schaffer. - LPMiller
"heh." - Squeaky
"You never know how a cow catches a rabbit" - Ashiran
#49 by Trolly McTroll
2003-11-04 15:16:03
#47 """""Balderama"""""


Shut up buttfucker.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"Great, we are being trolled by Paul Schaffer. - LPMiller
"heh." - Squeaky
"You never know how a cow catches a rabbit" - Ashiran
#50 by Trolly McTroll
2003-11-04 15:16:39
#42 The_Joker
I just finished a 3 day JERKATHON. Man was it awesome. I can't touch my wang right now beause it hurts like hell. I was like beating it over 12 times a day.


Try putting some peanut butter on it.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"Great, we are being trolled by Paul Schaffer. - LPMiller
"heh." - Squeaky
"You never know how a cow catches a rabbit" - Ashiran
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