PlanetCrap 6.0!
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (1) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
T O P I C
Where have all the codeboys gone?
July 9th 2000, 18:52 CEST by morn

Following the mod scene, specifically for the newer games, most prominently Quake 3 Arena, there is one single thought that I couldn't help thinking: "Where's all the cool stuff?"



Sure, there is everybody's darling, Counter Strike. And yes, it's good. Very good, actually, considering most of it was created in the spare time of some dedicated fansters. But what else is there? Sure, there's Action Half-Life (and probably ActionUT, and maybe I missed ActionQ3A somewhere?), Science and Industry, Weapons Factory Arena, Q3Fortress, and most of these mods aren't that bad, either. But still, I can't help feeling that MODS are turning MOTS -- More Of The Same.

So I ask you -- where is everybody, where are all the really cool ideas? I crave for the Old Days(tm), where someone would unexpectedly come up with something as cool as, say, QUESS. Today everybody just wants to make Team Fortress and, of course, Counter Strike clones, and most projects consist of kids who're just starting to develop stuff and don't really have a clue about managing a project or writing code. Maybe it's a generations thing, and all the real talent (the Quess generation?) is working on something different today?

Your thoughts please!

C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Where have all the codeboys gone?

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
#1 by "Morn"
2000-07-09 18:53:26
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Twentyfourthandaseventh!

- Morn
#2 by "BuccAneeR"
2000-07-09 18:53:46
michael@stoissberg.de http://www.stoissberg.de
First! Please, please, please!
#3 by "Morn"
2000-07-09 18:56:42
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#1</b> "Morn" wrote...
<QUOTE>Twentyfourthandaseventh!</QUOTE>

That should probably have been "Twentyfourandaseventh". See if I care!

Now let's stick to the topic. :)

- Morn
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#4 by "enyak"
2000-07-09 18:57:46
enyak@planetcrap.com
I can smell cake.

-enyak
#5 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-09 19:02:47
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
they moved and coded for UT

U4eUT
Easy Matrix
Strangelove Redeemer
Matrix Moves
NT-UT
Enhanced Sniper scope
No fall/Slippers


just to name a couple that I play regularly.


Q3, doesnt have anything like em :(


it could just be Unrealscript is much much easier to work with than buggering around with the virtual machines Carmack slapped up


Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#6 by "Phillip"
2000-07-09 19:05:45
http://www2.netdoor.com/~pms/
There are fewer mods for Q3A, but they are of better quality.

I use OSP Tourney DM/CA/CTF for my four Q3A servers.

<a href="http://www.netdoor.com/quake3/">http://www.netdoor.com/quake3/</a>

<a href="http://www.netdoor.com/cgi-bin/q3mon.pl?quake3.netdoor.com:27960,quake3.netdoor.com:27961,quake3.netdoor.com:27962,quake3.netdoor.com:27963">http://www.netdoor.com/cgi-bin/q3mon.pl?quake3.netdoor.com:27960,quake3.netdoor.com:27961,quake3.netdoor.com:27962,quake3.netdoor.com:27963</a>

I play Clan Arena mostly these days.

I wish RA3 would be released without the maps, then release the maps when they are finished.  I would prefer monthly improvements.  Look at CS, it is constantly evolving.  RA2 still has bugs in it.
#7 by "BarneyQue"
2000-07-09 19:06:33
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
First generation mod makers now work in the industry.  Second gen are looking at that, saying wow, me too, me too, pick me.

So they go and make the same damn thing not realizing that the reason the first gen made it was because they did something new.

Then some get a hand from the studio's while all the fame seekers cry fowl because that's the only reason they started anything in the first place.

All fame and fortune glory seekers now.


<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#8 by "Phillip"
2000-07-09 19:07:01
http://www2.netdoor.com/~pms/
Hmm, sorry about that wide link.  I hate that.  Can comments not be edited?  Would be nice if they could be up to 5 min after they are submitted.
#9 by "Morn"
2000-07-09 19:07:43
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#5</b> "Darkseid-[D!]" wrote...
<QUOTE>they moved and coded for UT</QUOTE>

Darkseid, the mods you named are all fun mutators. Especially U4EUT is... whacky. But they're still not "spectacular"...

You know, one of the coolest mods I've ever played was <a href="http://tmatrix.telefragged.com/rts.htm">Rob The Strogg for Quake 2</a>. Unforunately, it was released way too late (a couple of months before Quake 3 was released, if I remember correctly), so nobody really cared anymore. It was fun, it was original, and it was very accessible.

"And it wasn't even class based." ;-)

Where is cool stuff like that for Q3A, or even UT?

- Morn

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "Morn"
2000-07-09 19:09:50
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#7</b> "BarneyQue" wrote...
<QUOTE>First generation mod makers now work in the industry. Second gen are looking at
that, saying wow, me too, me too, pick me.</QUOTE>

That is <i>exactly</i> what I am thinking, and it is a very depressing thought.

:(

- Morn
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#11 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-09 19:10:51
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>You know, one of the coolest mods I've ever played was Rob The Strogg for Quake 2. Unforunately, it was released way too late (a couple of months before Quake 3 was released, if I remember correctly), so nobody really cared anymore. It was fun, it was original, and it was very accessible. </quote>
Well, isn't that part of the problem, that gamers are a conservative lot and won't play anything radically different or move on to the "next big shiny flashy thing" as soon as it appears?
#12 by "Andy"
2000-07-09 19:11:41
andy@planetcrap.com
I'm not a big mod player nowadays, mainly because I don't deathmatch much but also because, as Morn said, there's very little to get excited about. Nothing new, nothing original... just old stuff, sometimes done better.

BUT! There's a Q3A mod called <a href="http://avatar.telefragged.com/tq.htm">Target Quake</a> that is really, really good. It turns Q3A into a side-on scroller. The code itself must be very simple, but it's the idea that I like. It's done well, and the levels are awesome, although the control system could do with a bit of a rethink.

First time I played it, I just sat there with this big dorky smile on my face, going "wow... oh wow". Give it a go if you've not seen it yet.

One other mod I was really interested in, but I can't remember the name of it at the moment, was the project to create a single player Q3A mod. If I remember correctly, the team was going to recreate all their favourite monsters from the Doom and Quake series. Hopefully it's still in progress... I'll see if I can find a link.
#13 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-09 19:12:30
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
I rather enjoyed Future vs. Fantasy and Superheroes for the original Quake. Then again, most of my free time was Quake multiplayer, too.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#14 by "Andy"
2000-07-09 19:18:39
andy@planetcrap.com
The Q3A single player mod is called <a href="http://www.thebackburner.com/~spq3/">SPQ3</a> and it looks like things are going well. The news page is regularly updated, there are some screenshots of models and levels, and it's looking pretty damn good.

I must admit I was pessimistic, because it's a HUGE project and I thought they'd give up, but nope, it looks like they're pushing on.

So I guess we can all look forward to six months from now when it's finished, and Id sends the lawyers in. :-(
#15 by "Andy"
2000-07-09 19:22:11
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#7</b>, BarneyQue:
<QUOTE>
All fame and fortune glory seekers now.
</QUOTE>
I tried to code a Q3A mod mod recently. Just a simple little thing, but I thought it would be a fun novelty. I was never able to get anywhere with Q1 and Q2 coding, and sadly I couldn't get to grips with Q3A either, so I gave up.

Sometimes it's not greed or ego that stops mods from being written, it's just good old-fashioned lack of talent. :-)
#16 by "Talion"
2000-07-09 19:23:50
talion6@hotmail.com
<b>#12</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>
BUT! There's a Q3A mod called <A href="http://avatar.telefragged.com/tq.htm">Target Quake</A> that is really, really good. It turns Q3A into a side-on scroller. The code itself must be very simple, but it's the idea that I like. It's done well, and the levels are awesome, although the control system could do with a bit of a rethink.
</QUOTE>

This is actually More of the Same.  The same guy did a side scrolling version of Quake 1.  Not to say it's not cool, but it's not new either.

<QUOTE>
One other mod I was really interested in, but I can't remember the name of it at the moment, was the project to create a single player Q3A mod. If I remember correctly, the team was going to recreate all their favourite monsters from the Doom and Quake series. Hopefully it's still in progress... I'll see if I can find a link.
</QUOTE>

Sounds suspiciously like the Generations project for Q2, which was going to have Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, Quake II, etc.  Got shut down for copyright reasons.  Big scandal.  PC must have been down at the time or I'm sure you would have covered it.

Or maybe I'm just thinking of the wrong thing.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#17 by "Morn"
2000-07-09 19:25:14
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
You know, I am <a href=http://www.developium.com>obviously</a> aware that making games (or mods) today is easier than it has ever been before, and it will continue to get easier all the time. Sure, I'm not talking about huge mainstream projects, as they'll require more and more "traditional" talent (composers, writers, ...), but fun little games (and that includes stuff using an exisiting 3D engine), and my worst fear is that there's simply not enough amateur talent out there to unlock the potential of all this new cool stuff that's coming out (Mmmm... WildTangent GameDriver).

Gnargh!

- Morn
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#18 by "Whisp"
2000-07-09 19:25:22
whisp_@hotmail.com
I think part of the problem may be that many of these second generation modders haven't had much experience with working with someone else's code, or even coding in general.  They also might not have had much experience taking a project from conception to completion, and don't understand how much work it is even to do simple things.  I've seen quite a few ideas for fairly original mods from time to time, but those, like the obvious garbage, tend to quietly slip into the night unfinished.  Even for experienced programmers, finding the time to make something radically different is hard, since most have school or a job taking their attention.  Also, I hear frequently how these newer games are a lot more complex and harder to edit, which means even remaking a mod from the quake 1 days could be more work than the orginal mod was.

-Whisp
#19 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-09 19:26:43
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
almost forgot

tho I _hated_ it .. (thought it was shitty)

the 1941 mod is quite an achievement. ...


ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#20 by "Morn"
2000-07-09 19:28:16
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#15</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>Sometimes it's not greed or ego that stops mods from being written, it's just
good old-fashioned lack of talent. :-)</QUOTE>

Or the fact that before you can even start planning your project code, you'll have to live and breathe the exisiting source code, which is not only "by some other guy", but also poorly documented. Q3A coding might be a lot more fun if id Software had taken a "game creation system" approach with the title, instead of a "here's the engine, now see if you can figure it out" one.

- Morn
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#21 by "BuccAneeR"
2000-07-09 19:30:15
michael@stoissberg.de http://www.stoissberg.de
#7, Talion:
<QUOTE>Sounds suspiciously like the Generations project for Q2, which was going to have Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, Quake II, etc. Got shut down for copyright reasons. Big scandal.</QUOTE>
There is even a new try to make it copyright-friendly. Lee'Mon is making it and it's called <a href="http://www.planetquake.com/wirehead/generations/"> Generations Arena </a>. Check it out, it's worth.
#22 by "BarneyQue"
2000-07-09 19:32:25
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
<b>#15</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>

<B>#7</B>, BarneyQue:

<quote>
All fame and fortune glory seekers now.
</quote>
I tried to code a Q3A mod mod recently. Just a simple little thing, but I thought it would be a fun novelty. I was never able to get anywhere with Q1 and Q2 coding, and sadly I couldn't get to grips with Q3A either, so I gave up.

Sometimes it's not greed or ego that stops mods from being written, it's just good old-fashioned lack of talent. :-)



</QUOTE>

Well then, lets not let minor details get in the way of a great mod.

<a href="http://www.quake3mods.net/tutorials/coding/1.php3"></a>



:)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#23 by "Andy"
2000-07-09 19:32:45
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#16</b>, Talion:
<QUOTE>
Sounds suspiciously like the Generations project for Q2, which was going to have Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, Quake II, etc. Got shut down for copyright reasons. Big scandal. PC must have been down at the time or I'm sure you would have covered it.
</QUOTE>
We did cover it, sort of. I remember there was a debate about how different a level would have to be from the original to avoid IP problems. I don't think it was ever posted as a topic, but there was certainly a thread within a thread.
#24 by "BarneyQue"
2000-07-09 19:33:31
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
<b>#22</b> "BarneyQue" wrote...
<QUOTE>

<B>#15</B> "Andy" wrote...

<quote>

<B>#7</B>, BarneyQue:


<quote>
All fame and fortune glory seekers now.
</quote>
I tried to code a Q3A mod mod recently. Just a simple little thing, but I thought it would be a fun novelty. I was never able to get anywhere with Q1 and Q2 coding, and sadly I couldn't get to grips with Q3A either, so I gave up.

Sometimes it's not greed or ego that stops mods from being written, it's just good old-fashioned lack of talent. :-)



</quote>

Well then, lets not let minor details get in the way of a great mod.

<A href="http://www.quake3mods.net/tutorials/coding/1.php3"></A>



:)</QUOTE>

Hmm, my link got snarfed. I'll do it the old fashion way I guess.

http://www.quake3mods.net/tutorials/coding/1.php3<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#25 by "enyak"
2000-07-09 19:36:35
enyak@planetcrap.com
I think the server ops are part of the problem. Few of them seem to care about setting up a well-configured server or seeking out interesting mods. And without servers to play on, the respective mod is doomed.

-enyak
#26 by "BarneyQue"
2000-07-09 19:37:35
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
<b>#25</b> "enyak" wrote...
<QUOTE>

I think the server ops are part of the problem. Few of them seem to care about setting up a well-configured server or seeking out interesting mods. And without servers to play on, the respective mod is doomed.

-enyak </QUOTE>


Good point.  Had the same problem in the old TF days trying to get a map other than 2forts in the rotation.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#27 by "Andy"
2000-07-09 19:42:18
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#24</b>, BarneyQue:

I know C, I just can't get my head around the Q3A code. :-)

As Morn said in #20, it's a nightmare trying to figure out what the hell is going on with someone else's code before you can even start adding/changing your own stuff. (It is for me, anyway.)
#28 by "BarneyQue"
2000-07-09 19:43:38
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
<b>#27</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>

<B>#24</B>, BarneyQue:

I know C, I just can't get my head around the Q3A code. :-)

As Morn said in #20, it's a nightmare trying to figure out what the hell is going on with someone else's code before you can even start adding/changing your own stuff. (It is for me, anyway.)
</QUOTE>


Sorry about that, I figured as much.  Just being a bit cheeky today.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#29 by "Hellchick"
2000-07-09 19:44:34
hellchick@planetquake.com http://www.planetquake.com
Yeah, I know, I'm pimping my own site, but there's another tutorial site out there, too: <a href="http://www.planetquake.com/code3arena">Code 3 Arena</a>. Pretty cool.
#30 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-09 19:45:40
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
Maybe Blizzard should make Diablo II "modable" and then maybe we could see someone fix this Battle.net crap. It's sad to see Blizzard release a product where there service doesn't stand up for once. Oh well, the game is still good.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#31 by "Whisp"
2000-07-09 19:47:44
whisp_@hotmail.com
Here's a couple I've heard of.
<a href="http://www.bidforpower.com/index.cfm">Dragonball Z: Bid for Power</a> - Yes I know, Dragonball Z - but it looks like this one might actually be finished some day. And it's definitely different.  I'm not sure how much coding they've done yet though.

<a href="http://www.planetquake.com/qrally2/">Quake Rally 2</a> - Yes it's a remake, but the fact remains that it's pretty different too.

-Whisp
#32 by "BarneyQue"
2000-07-09 19:50:27
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
<b>#29</b> "Hellchick" wrote...
<QUOTE>

Yeah, I know, I'm pimping my own site, but there's another tutorial site out there, too: <A href="http://www.planetquake.com/code3arena">Code 3 Arena</A>. Pretty cool. </QUOTE>

I personally don't mind a bit of site pimping when it gives me something I did not know about previously.

I'll check it out. Thanks.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-07-09 19:51:39
appliedavoidanc@triton.net
<b>#12</b> "Andy" allowed this bilge to spill out of his keyboard
<QUOTE>BUT! There's a Q3A mod called Target Quake</A> that is really,
really good. It turns Q3A into a side-on scroller. The code itself must be very
simple, but it's the idea that I like. It's done well, and the levels are
awesome, although the control system could do with a bit of a rethink.

</QUOTE>

Target Quake was done for Q1 a long time ago. I still have it floating around here somewhere. It was fun for Q1, although I didn't get very far in it.Some of that stuff was tough.



<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "keefer"
2000-07-09 20:11:36
keefer+crap@tzone.logicalalt.com
Somewhere, someday, some smart person or people will create a "meta-mod-developing" system, which be ONE thing to learn, then support targets of all the games out there.  That way, you concentrate on building gameplay, and less about the intricacies of each engine.  This would be a lot like products that allow you to target X/Mac/Win32 from one codebase.

Well, it's something I just thought up.  Practical?  Probably not really.  But it is a potentially very cool idea (IMNSHO ;) ).
#35 by "Desiato"
2000-07-09 20:35:26
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
I'm sure MAKURMODspy is coming. *right*

But on topic, there are quite a few crappy tutorials out there that just frustrate instead of educate. I remember one in particular for Q2 where the author admitted "I messed up the code so you couldn't rip me off.." Great..good idea! Lets make sure it doesn't work to begin with, so you can learn how to *debug*....(barf)

Some forums for UT script and Level editing are quite available, but getting a clear answer on what and how the Q2 edict_t structure works is an exercise in futility.

Keefer raises a good question -- *DOES* a language that controls the look/feel/ations in a game have to be as arcane as the code required for the core 3D engine? Probably not, but then I'm likely arguing the same thing as a "perfectly safe" car -- it could be done, but no one would be able to afford it.

Remakes by the way -- are just that, *REMAKES* and really are just "hey lets do that over here" kind of thinking. Creative? Uh....sure it is. But I doubt the next QUESS or Get Rich Quake is going to come out very soon.

Oooh...a quake racing game? Ooops, been done - and why would you bother stressing out a 3D engine that has trouble with spaces a tenth of the size of Lava Giant? How do you get around that? Shrink the scale like the original rally? Sure you can -- but you would still have to make most of your tracks non-visible from any other section. Wonderful -- you've invented a "canyon racer" ...mmmm...great. I guess.

Desiato
#36 by "Mankovic"
2000-07-09 20:49:34
mankovic@bellsouth.net http://
I've been around the Mod scene long enough now to know that many mod making teams just gave up and moved on, especially during the mudslinging that went on during the mid to latter part of last year(remember the "Free Lunches Debate"?), not to mention that a lot of coders lost interest because ID decided not take the issue of Aiming Proxies to heart and offer any real solutions. It took another dedicated part of the coding community just to try and come up with solutions against these threats(BWAdmin, Q2Admin ect...).

Another interesting thing that I see that occured is the lack of cohesion amongst the Mod community itself. People like Fargo, Lowtax, and Gestalt were all avid community players when it came to spot lighting Mods and their creators, not to mention the community itself, and now that they've moved on the "coolness" factor has dissapeared almost entirely from the community itself. It is nice however to see guys like Team Shambler still making stuff for Q1.

We are in a different time right now than we were just a few years ago, Doom and Quake1 drew in most of the talent that was out there in the online community, and I honestly think that Quake2 benefitted the most from this, but now we have UT, Kingpin, Halflife..ect..ect, and all of the other new releases all vying for the attention of the Mod community, and there just isnt that much talent to go around.
 
I remember a time when people were purely diehard Quakeplayers and Mod makers, and many scoffed at the notion of making a Mod for anything else. The IRC network moves also had an effect on the Mod making scene, it was cool to be able to hop into the #quake channel and see Disruptor and others working right alongside the player community, and offering advice and help when anyone needed it. The move to gamesnet was a mistake in my opinion and a lot of people felt abandoned, some of the hardcore types setup their own irc networks and recently Stomped just merged with <a href="http://www.inside3d.net">inside3D's IRC Network</a> which looks to be a promising place for Mod makers to hang out. There is talent still out there, I just think an effort needs to be made by the community itself in making Mod making cool again.

A lot of emphasis needs to be placed on this years QuakeCon, I think some cool ideas will be exchanged and some kickass teams will result from it. I predict some pretty cool stuff for Quake3 coming in the months ahead, and I'm hoping that QuakeCon will rekindle that fire that used to be so prevalent in the Quake community. There are numerous workshops and seminars planned at this years event, and a few Mod Teams are gonna be there offering advice and participating in these seminars, it should be a fun time....I cant wait...:)
#37 by "Apache"
2000-07-09 20:53:45
apache@warzone.com http://www.unrealuniverse.com
incidently, this is sort of the topic for my mailbag this week. In case you'd like to feed my bag-o-mail, here's the post:<quote>

This week's topic is: "What Unreal Tournament Mod has the most potential; SWAT, Strike Force or Infiltration?" (Make sure to explain your answers!)

Send all your letters to: mailbag@unrealuniverse.com!</quote>

I love all the letters I get from AOL accounts, but some fresh blood would be nice:)
#38 by "Whisp"
2000-07-09 20:58:40
whisp_@hotmail.com
<b>#35</b> "Desiato" wrote...
<QUOTE>Oooh...a quake racing game? Ooops, been done - and why would you bother
stressing out a 3D engine that has trouble with spaces a tenth of the size of
Lava Giant? How do you get around that? Shrink the scale like the original
rally? Sure you can -- but you would still have to make most of your tracks
non-visible from any other section. Wonderful -- you've invented a "canyon
racer" ...mmmm...great. I guess.
</QUOTE>

Yes, it's done been done before, but not for several years.  Most GAMES are based at least in part on something that's been seen before, much less the mods for those games.  Performance does seem like it would be an issue, but then it's an issue for most new maps.  It's also a big issue in most racing games too.  Why do you think most of them have that "canyon racer" feel you just mentioned.  I can't remember the last racing game I played in which you could actually see large parts of the tracks besides when you were driving.  They usually had several open sections separated by narrow canyons, tunnels, or buildings.  2d racers are a different story though.  

Did you actually look at the web site at all before you posted?  They have a few shots of some areas that seem to compare nicely to full-fledged racing games.  Whether or not they will be enough to bring computers to their knees remains to be seen.

My main point is that they are doing something different, and that it isn't something that has been seen in a mod for a while. (Not to my knowledge anyway) It's not just another flavor of dm.  If someone were to write a mod that turned UT into a chess game with a computer AI, would you just pass it off as another computer chess game?  After all, we've all seen computer chess programs before. YAWN.

-Whisp
#39 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-07-09 21:11:18
sgt_hulka@yahoo.com http://www.hulka.com
Also, when Quake came out, you're choices of which game to support was very small, now you've got UT, Q3, SOF, etc..  This splits up development into multiple games instead of most of the community concentrating on Quake III, plus Q3 didn't impress the community like UT did, IMHO.
#40 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-07-09 21:14:37
sgt_hulka@yahoo.com http://www.hulka.com
YOUR, not you're!  God I hate when I do that!
#41 by "Morn"
2000-07-09 21:22:24
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#37</b> "Apache" wrote...
<QUOTE>my mailbag</QUOTE>

?!

- Morn
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#42 by "Apache"
2000-07-09 22:02:33
apache@warzone.com http://www.unrealuniverse.com
yeah, a mailbag. It's a place where readers send in letters and you add your witty comments to them.  :)
#43 by "red"
2000-07-09 22:35:27
reevesg@cableinet.co.uk http://www.quadmonkey.co.uk/
i agree, good mods seem to be a thing of the past.

but then as i remeber, the good mods apeared a long time AFTER the game was released, i think we're just getting over the "rush and release" mods, and getting the good stuff apearing;
quake rally, rocket arena 3, and hopefully stuff we havent heard of.
#44 by "BloodKnight"
2000-07-09 22:41:40
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
I think the problems lies within ideas already taken.  Most of the mods in the past where making ideas left and right using an engine they were limited too.  We had racing, weapons, realism, future, fantasy, runes, tweaks on already made modes (LMCTF), and 1 on 1 arenas.  Could you honestly think of another creative mod and would be popular?  They are lots of creative mods out there, just people don't give two shits about them.  Look at Target Quake, how come I can't see at least 10 servers?  Alliance CTF, not exactly orginal, but the best CTF I played (which includes UT btw), and no one plays it.  The only way you could get popular with making a mod/TC is by making something people like, either Class based or realism.  CS wasn't exactly orginal either, all they did was add a buying system, everything else was very much like RS/R6 with extra modes, which was probably the only thing creative despite the buying system.  Hell, look at the crosshairs in CS, they speak for themself.  I doubt mods will really change in the future, people want to become popular, so they have to rip off something from others to do so.  People will rip off mods and add a few new features to try to 'stand' out from the other mods/TC, even though in a nutshell its the same
#45 by "red"
2000-07-09 22:42:00
reevesg@cableinet.co.uk http://www.quadmonkey.co.uk/
oh and not to mention the HULK mod, that is definatly the most fun and origianl (afaik) of allt he q3 mods.
#46 by "Desiato"
2000-07-09 22:43:04
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Whisp -- Ever play Powerslide? Then you'd know where I'm coming from. They have a cool "stunt" track that is basically this huge construct with several "arenas" of differing styles -- and there are some awfully open parts where you can see clear across the map.

But if you're just into the usual racing games, I can see why you would think that *every* racing game has to fit the mold of obstructing the map at every hairpin turn, and using scenery to block the whole track off from the driver.

Also in Powerslide, you can take your car practically *everywhere*....they even have a few powerups hidden in the track where you can climb on vertical surfaces (spider pickup) or "fly" around the map -- seeing a whole crapload of it in one fell swoop. (I believe that one is called "glider".)

So why should I be interested in a quake-variant racing game when the underlying engine will choke on anything I'm accustomed to in Powerslide? I just don't see the point. More power to them -- but hey, they're the ones who decided to limit themselves.

Oh -- and your witty QUESS comment.

If someone decided to copy QUESS and port it to UT or Q3A....I wouldn't really care. Why? Because it takes little *creative* effort, although the *technical* effort may be great, doesn't justify it in being original.

And -- I'm not trying to take one of these arguments and use the usual -- "Well, if you deconstruct anything in FPS games you would have to admit that it shares properties with X,Y,Z shooters."

Spare me that. I'm talking about original MODS, not the "find a key shoot things" deconstruction argument that I see every FPS thread devolve to.

It's funny when I see Q3A mods try to recreate something from UT, or vice versa -- because the whole time I'm thinking....yeah, I *could* try it, but *why* - since the original game does it so much better?

Desiato
#47 by "jimmy's duck"
2000-07-09 22:45:59
jimmy@porcelin.duck.com
Maybe mods are just mirroring the games they're created for. As games have been created with an increasing lack of imagination and talent, so have mods.
#48 by "Skid"
2000-07-09 22:50:56
skid@planetquake.com http://www.planetquake.com/generations
Most people just don't want to play drastically different stuff. I'm just as quick to decide that a given mod is too gimmicky for me without even giving it a try. Not sure when this started happening, but the whole idea of mods just seems pretty stale now.

The problem with Q3A, at least to me, is that the game was too "blah" and content-free to begin with. The main idea of a mod is to extend something you like to be even more fun. But all this goes moot when you have skeleton games which almost depend on mods to make them fun.

#16
"Sounds suspiciously like the Generations project for Q2, which was going to have Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, Quake II, etc. Got shut down for copyright reasons. Big scandal."

There wasn't any big scandal, though that attention-seeking "Lee'mon" would have you believe otherwise. Everyone actually "working" on the mod was pretty much sick of the whole thing because of poor management and organization. I'm mostly to blame for that, but, you live and learn =) The copyright thing was just a misunderstanding, I thought I had permission, but it turned out that ToddH hadn't even bothered to look at the website for details on the project when he did give permission eons ago. So it turned out that we didn't have permission after all. Everything would have been fine, but I had been thinking of doing another version of Q3A, so we got in touch with him again to confirm that it would be okay, and thats how we found out that it wasn't even okay for Q2, much less Q3A.

#21
"There is even a new try to make it copyright-friendly. Lee'Mon is making it and it's called Generations Arena . Check it out, it's worth. "

Okay, this is mostly a personal gripe. But, bear with me. The way I see it, the only thing modmakers really get out of making mods, apart from personal fulfilment and experience, is a little bit of fame and glory in the small community. Now, people like "Lee'mon" are only responsible for website updates and minor crap like that, which _anyone_ can do. As Andy pointed out, it takes talent to code, to map, and to make models and sounds. But anyone can act important and do website updates. Then WHY is it that people like these get all the credit and people who actually work on the mod remain unknown. The coder of the Q3A Generations mod had the idea to port the concept to Q3A, and he is responsible for most of the work, but no one is aware of that. Because Leemon makes sure he pimps it as his own at every possible opportunity. If you look at what he posts on PlanetQuake, he did the exact same thing for Q2 Generations. He kept dragging it on and on until the name of the mod synonymous with him. I try not to be petty about this, but I can't deny that it does annoy me. And now I see the same thing happening with the Q3A port and its just sad.
#49 by "Morn"
2000-07-09 22:54:16
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#42</b> "Apache" wrote...
<QUOTE>yeah, a mailbag. It's a place where readers send in letters and you add your
witty comments to them. :)</QUOTE>

Mailbag... Unreal Universe... GameFan... Apache?

- Morn
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#50 by "G-Man"
2000-07-09 22:55:38
jonmars@shiftlock.org http://www.shiftlock.org
I'd like to see a classic game emulator such as M.A.M.E ported to UT's windowing system. How cool would that be? I believe someone coded a Tetris clone awhile ago...

Oh and part of the reason that the mods are more of the same is that as of now the tools and their capabilities are still the same. Q3 is not fundamentally different from Q2 (with the exception of shaders, and a slight amount more control over the UI). Watch for this to change soon with Half-Life and the Unreal engine (massively multiplayer persistent worlds, real time voice chat, more abstracted UI, etc,.)

 - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Where have all the codeboys gone?

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
P O S T   A   C O M M E N T

You need to be logged in to post a comment here. If you don't have an account yet, you can create one here. Registration is free.
C R A P T A G S
Simple formatting: [b]bold[/b], [i]italic[/i], [u]underline[/u]
Web Links: [url=www.mans.de]Cool Site[/url], [url]www.mans.de[/url]
Email Links: [email=some@email.com]Email me[/email], [email]some@email.com[/email]
Simple formatting: Quoted text: [quote]Yadda yadda[/quote]
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (1) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
There are currently 0 people browsing this site. [Details]