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Feeling It Slipping Away
October 13th 2003, 04:52 CEST by Hugin

I turned 30 this year, and I'm finding myself having some kind of midlife gaming crisis.  Is anyone else experienceing this?  Games still seem interesting in the abstract, but you feel as if at any given moment you're having less and less actual fun? Challenges that used to cheerfully consume hours, even days of your life now seem like unbearable annoyances?  Games being set aside sooner and sooner, with less and less provocation? Am I alone here?  I feel so old all of a sudden.

I still love the idea of games.  But as I grow older, fewer and fewer of them are actually giving me pleasure.  I've recently come to realize that I really can't get excited to play anything fantasy for example.  I buy games, play a few levels, get bored or frustrated or annoyed, set them aside meaning to come back to them later, and never do.  I think in the past two years, I have about twice as many unfinished games as finished on my shelf.  Recent games that my fellow gamers rave about just leave me flat.  Oh, there are exceptions.  Disgaea has been great fun.  And I finished Homeworld 2 on the strength of its gameplay and sci-fi theme, despite recognizing that the game wasn't much more than a mediocre mission pack for Homeworld.

But more and more I'm just not feeling it. The desire to input cheat codes, which I never used to do, grows with every game.  The number of games I buy is dwindling.  The sense of accomplishment I used to get from finishing a game has dwindled as well.  Is it an age thing?  Is anyone else sick of the same old storylines and more and more embarassed by the tacky, the sexist, the juvenile content in this industry that sticks in my craw more and more as I grow older? Is anyone else less and less interested in games being "hard" or "challenging"?  It's making me sad.  Am I alone here?
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#1 by yotsuya
2003-10-13 04:54:16
Turning 30 isn't the end of the world. But it's up there.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#2 by jafd
2003-10-13 04:54:17
I was serious. Arrange to see a therapist, toot sweet.

I turned 30 this year as well, and I'm not experiencing what you're talking about. At all.

"You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
#3 by Greg
2003-10-13 05:03:59
I played through a ton of games last year (at 28). This year, I haven't played through nearly as many. I doubt that age is a factor, as last year was somewhat of an odd year in respect to me being able to play through all those games. If I had to choose one factor, I'd say it was the quality of the games. The ones I've bought this year don't really seem to be as good as the bunch released last year.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#4 by BobJustBob
2003-10-13 05:07:14
I've always maintained that games don't need to be challenging to be fun. Anytime someone complains about a game being 'easy' they're really complaining about something else, whether it's length or lack of variety or whatever.

Last post.
#5 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-13 05:08:00
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Therapy.  Yeah, opiate of the masses.  Feeling a little off today?  Pay someone by the hour to ask you questions about yourself!  Got a question for them?  They've got a question for you in return!  It's win-win!  You can get the same benefit from talking to a stuffed animal or the family pet.


Hugin

I have the same relationship with games these days.  I love making them and I love the concept of playing them.  However, I get annoyed WAY too easily and I recognize this.  The slightest design flaw and I shelve the game.  I just don't have time for it anymore.

Wanna make me replay the last 15 minutes of the game because you were too stupid to put a save point before the boss encounter?  Shelved.

I got killed because your stupid game doesn't let me invert the vertical camera control?  Shelved.

I just can't do it anymore.  I can forgive certain things if the greater good is overriding, but that doesn't happen often these days.

I look back at some of the games I used to play on the C=64 and I really don't know how I put up with it.  I guess it's all perspective.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#6 by jafd
2003-10-13 05:16:36
Keep trying. There are single-celled organisms that haven't yet gotten the message that you are an ignorant bumpkin, Warren. Slacker!

"You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
#7 by Chunkstyle
2003-10-13 05:19:50
I've been the same way for years (and I'm 35).  I still love games, and try many, but just don't have the same passion for playing anymore.  I've completed very few, and have absolutely no problem with cheat codes if I want to see the cinematics.  So don't feel too bad, Hugin, it seems to be going around.

I put the lime in the coconut, I drank it all up.
#8 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-13 05:23:41
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#6 jafd
Keep trying. There are single-celled organisms that haven't yet gotten the message that you are an ignorant bumpkin, Warren. Slacker!

And there are still children who haven't had the pleasure of witnessing your entoxicating dance routine.

Dance, bear, dance!

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#9 by Sgt Hulka
2003-10-13 05:28:00
Old men who play the picollo creep me out.  Especially if they're leading a small army of rats out of the village.  

Regarding games, I play them rarely.  Buy them even less.  I've been playing games since Pong, went through the Pac-Man craze, Defender, Tron and all the other arcade machines of the 90's.  Went Doom crazy in 94, then moved onto UT and ended up with Quake III / PainKeep Arena.  That's all I really play anymore, and that's only because we're finishing up version 3.0 of PKA.  I don't see anything coming out anytime soon that gives me a boner.

" Hulka - I love Videomaker. And you're one ugly mutherfucker. " - Yotsuya
#10 by Desiato
2003-10-13 05:31:17
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
I had the 'deja vu' moment with Starpeace. Instead of accumulating a bazillion fake dollars, I decided to actually follow some of the serious investments I had considered at one point, but fell to the wayside. (In addition to, not a replacement of IRA's or whatnot.) It's a lot more fun when it is real. It all comes down to time. Just seems like less of it to go around at times. I can understand the giving into cheats as well, especially with things like Homeworld2. I just don't have the time to come up with the optimal strategy, I've got work in the morning! Eh, I think you know what I mean.

Programmers are the new blue-collar workforce. Bangalore or bust! Viva global economy!
#11 by "Anthony"
2003-10-13 05:34:47
im 21 and i feel the same way.
#12 by Sgt Hulka
2003-10-13 05:36:30
Desi, you mentioned deja vu and work in the same post, and it reminds me of these corporate meetings I used to attend.  As I would sit in yet another SFM (Stupid Fucking Meeting) wondering why I didn't bring a drool cup, I had an epiphany that day when I realized that as I sit there I am experiencing Deja Vu and Amnesia at the same time.  

Go to college kids, get a degree, work for a souless corporation and you too can get a shiny button showing your co-workers that you're the best monkey on the planet.  Oh, and get some wing tip shoes. Those will get you at least an addition .5 raise each year during your yearly interrogation.

" Hulka - I love Videomaker. And you're one ugly mutherfucker. " - Yotsuya
#13 by G-Man
2003-10-13 05:44:58
I often find it hard to get interested in playing a game again once I have stopped playing it for a while. I have found that the solution is for me to just sit down and force myself to start playing. Once I am ten minutes into the game I will be enjoying myself and won't want to stop. It is the same with writing or any other "work".

Try just forcing youself to play a game the next time you get the urge, instead of letting your brain talk you out of it first.
#14 by jafd
2003-10-13 05:58:26
Dance, bear, dance!

Everyone of any importance already knows you are wrong, and the rest will figure it out soon enough. Besides, do you have any idea how hard it is to dance to the frenetic stylings of a mongoloid with a broken kazoo?

"You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
#15 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-10-13 06:10:19
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
Thinking...

/me high-fives <insert recently deceased celebrity here>
#16 by Sgt Hulka
2003-10-13 06:12:47
do you have any idea how hard it is to dance to the frenetic stylings of a mongoloid with a broken kazoo?


Why yes, yes I do.

" Hulka - I love Videomaker. And you're one ugly mutherfucker. " - Yotsuya
#17 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-13 06:31:13
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Everyone of any importance already knows you are wrong, and the rest will figure it out soon enough. Besides, do you have any idea how hard it is to dance to the frenetic stylings of a mongoloid with a broken kazoo?

How does that make you feel?

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#18 by Creole Ned
2003-10-13 06:32:27
Can we please knock off the usual Warren/jafd shit until this thread has had a chance? Please?

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#19 by jafd
2003-10-13 06:32:30
Contemptuous. Look it up.

"You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
#20 by Squeaky
2003-10-13 06:35:58
So what's gonna happen to me when I turn 30? I'm only 20, and I already feel like that. I should really stop hanging around all you old timers.


My newfound fascination with GCN has greatly alleviated that. Strolling the bargain bin and used games at EB is great fun. I picked up a used copy of Mario Sunshine for $20! I even bought their stupid little discount card that gets me 10% off all used stuff.

I've given up with gaming completely. I really couldn't care less about Doom 3. I'll probably get around to Half-Life 2 in a few years, when I can afford a decent computer to run it. Ditto with Deus Ex 2.

"...and you do not want to fuck with Tough Guy™! " - HWF
DVDs
#21 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-13 06:43:45
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#19 jafd
Contemptuous. Look it up.

Interesting word choice.  Let's talk about 'contemptuous'...  How does that word make you feel?

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#22 by Charles
2003-10-13 06:46:02
www.bluh.org
Hi jafd.

How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
#23 by Squeaky
2003-10-13 06:50:20
#21 Warren Marshall
#19 jafd
Contemptuous. Look it up.

Interesting word choice.  Let's talk about 'contemptuous'...  How does that word make you feel?

shut up. Shut Up! SHUT UP!

"...and you do not want to fuck with Tough Guy™! " - HWF
DVDs
#24 by Squeaky
2003-10-13 06:51:09
That's for the both of you. Don't make me turn this website around! We'll head straight back home if you keep acting like that.

"...and you do not want to fuck with Tough Guy™! " - HWF
DVDs
#25 by jafd
2003-10-13 06:56:07
I didn't start it and I don't care.

"You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
#26 by jafd
2003-10-13 06:56:16
That's for most of you.

"You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
#27 by Bailey
2003-10-13 07:08:00
I still have faith in games, but not the games made in our universe. Only those crafted in the BIZARRO UNIVERSE, where development studios only consist of 4-12 guys who don't have any egos, and publishers are usually related to the developers by blood, and they don't need marketers or guys with MBAs to call shots on design decisions.

Wait, that's the 1980s, not the bizarro universe. My bad.

Anywhere but here, with anyone but you.
#28 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-13 07:08:36
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#25 jafd
I didn't start it and I don't care.

A therapists wet dream.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#29 by Hugin
2003-10-13 07:13:06
lmccain@nber.org
Oh for god's sake, stop being stupid and boring and juvenile you two or at least take it to an older thread, or private emails or something.  It's not clever, witty, cutting banter, from either of you, it's just predictable and depressing. I barely want to bother to post in my own thread now.
#30 by Charles
2003-10-13 07:16:21
www.bluh.org
I was the same way as you Hugin, a few years back.  The tiniest thing in a game would annoy the piss out of me, and I'd never finish it.  But at some point, I realized that being so horribly critical meant I wasn't going to get any proper enjoyment out of pretty much any game, since 99% of even the good ones have those little flaws in them.  Since then, I've been able to look past a lot of issues in order to enjoy a game.

How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
#31 by jafd
2003-10-13 07:17:38
see above, re: I didn't start it, cross reference; post #5

You're right, however, I never need to reply to him again, ever. See above, re: boring, irrelevant.

"You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
#32 by Bailey
2003-10-13 07:20:24
Strangely, I get most of my daily joy intake out of being horribly critical of... well, everything. Different folks, different methods of slowly spiralling self-destruction, I suppose.

Anywhere but here, with anyone but you.
#33 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-13 07:40:06
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#31 jafd
see above, re: I didn't start it, cross reference; post #5

You're right, however, I never need to reply to him again, ever. See above, re: boring, irrelevant.

So much anger and resentment.  Tell me about your mother.


As for this thread - meh.  As you get older, you get more jaded and critical of things.  Surprise!  The trick is to stay young at heart or whatever Hallmark card you want to trot out.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#34 by Caryn
2003-10-13 07:44:11
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
#31 jafd
see above, re: I didn't start it, cross reference; post #5

You're right, however, I never need to reply to him again, ever. See above, re: boring, irrelevant.


Actually, you do appear to need to reply to him, all the time.


Hugin:

I wanted to make a meaningful contribution to this thread because I think it's a really interesting topic, but I'm finding it hard to stay objective since my job revolves around games, which means I feel like I've lost some of the ability to stand back and see them as something purely fun. (This worries me, since that's the last thing you want to happen to you when you work with games.) I'm constantly comparing them to other titles, to our titles, judging the graphics, etc.

I think I reached the point you did a little over a year ago. But around that time I found the GBA and started feeling like games were fun again. I think I go back to that small, simple style of game because it feels like PC games are trying to overachieve.

However, I will say that DOOM 3, Call of Duty (this will be the first WWII game I actually play through, so I'm not burned out on them) and Half-Life 2 have me anticipating a good PC game again.

"I'll sell you the idea for $50,000 and you can go from game developer zero to game developer hero." - Leslie
#35 by Bailey
2003-10-13 07:54:33
Actually, you do appear to need to reply to him, all the time.

It's a two-way street, m'dear.

Anywhere but here, with anyone but you.
#36 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-10-13 08:08:45
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
I LIKE TAKING COCKS IN THE ASS.

/me high-fives <insert recently deceased celebrity here>
#37 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-10-13 08:09:06
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
sup bailey dude

/me high-fives <insert recently deceased celebrity here>
#38 by Caryn
2003-10-13 08:09:31
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
#35 Bailey
It's a two-way street, m'dear.


It is indeed. But only one half enjoys pointing out how much it's not speaking to the other half at the same time that it is.

"I'll sell you the idea for $50,000 and you can go from game developer zero to game developer hero." - Leslie
#39 by Bailey
2003-10-13 08:15:53
So one's in denial and the other loves the abuse. Should we set them up on Blind Date and watch the fireworks?

Anywhere but here, with anyone but you.
#40 by jafd
2003-10-13 08:17:05
Hugin:
I don't know why those two knuckleheads non-contriburtion is annoying me so.

I really don't think it is fair for you to lump me in with that reprobate. Honestly.

I made my first contribution to the topic in post #2. Warren has challenged my assertion in post #5. Since then, that debate has consisted of nothing but ad hominem attacks.

Why is this?

Well, there could be several reasons. One is, that Warren has no creativity, a charge which is largely supported by the evidence at hand.

Secondly, I'm not really comfortable discussing someone's mental health in a public forum. It's not necessary, nor do I believe it is productive. Hence this apparently tiresome exchange between Warren and I. I made my point, Warren disagrees, and rather than actually discussing the finer elements of that point in a civilized manner (which is fucking impossible with Warren anyway, unless you're talking about coding or whatever the fuck else he knows fuck-all about), he and I have engaged in tiresome repartee.

You know, I agree; I said tiresome and I meant it. In my view, however, the alternatives are a) ignoring the point entirely, b) discussing the intimate details of Hugin_len's preceived personality in front of every random m0m0 around these parts, or c) wrapping the whole mess up in a thin charade.

Certainly there are other choices available to us, but as the thread is still rather young, there is time for that later.

What's more, while Warren and I are tediously engaging each other in what is perceived on the surface as "non-contribution", no one else is going to jump into the subject. At all. Frankly, I see this as a bonus. You're welcome to disagree.


Caryn:
Actually, you do appear to need to reply to him, all the time.

See above, re: I didn't start it, coupled with: a splash of Bailey.

I'd also like to further point out, that if you slice away all the insipid bullshit from Warren's and my contributions, you end up with me saying, "consider professional assistance for this problem," and Warren saying "hahaha, professional help is for loosers!!!1!"

I suppose the initial instinct for some of you people is to assume that Warren knows what he is talking about because he's a renowned game developar and I'm full of crap because I'm a nameless, faceless enigma. My response to that is simply this: Hitler wrote a book. He even shipped it! An impressive accomplishment on its own, to be sure, but relative to other issues, big fucking deal.

But only one half enjoys pointing out how much it's not speaking to the other half at the same time that it is.

You're completely out of touch on this.

"You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
#41 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-10-13 08:21:26
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
warren is a grease nugget

/me high-fives <insert recently deceased celebrity here>
#42 by Darkseid-D
2003-10-13 08:52:53
rogerboal@hotmail.com
Im hoping Call of Duty has a multiplayer demo / test out soon.

Perhaps one we could..... extensively play test on Butter? *









*perferrably a map with lots of high places we can learn to fly off...

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#43 by Desiato
2003-10-13 12:02:46
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
It's called abstaining.

When I had a run-in with certain 'personalities' in IRC, I simply stopped showing up, it worked wonders.

As for games - I still love games, I just don't have the same level of patience that I did before. This can be bad or good. Mostly it is bad when endlessly respawning enemies make it hard to forge ahead, or if there is some similar design flaw that is too glaring to ignore. Before I would just accept and try to move on at all costs, but lately I recognize these characteristics for what they are and refuse to pander to the designer after encountering them. After all, I'm indirectly paying to support their decisions, why should I waste my life on mediocrity?

It's like I said about Starpeace. Nice game, but after making a few 'millions' what was the point? That's when I decided to make that activity really pay off, since I had some experience in that area. Not applicable for other games, sure, but that was my epiphany -- why was I 'wasting' my time doing an activity that really didn't benefit me in the long run.

As for work, Hulka -- I have to agree that I long for the 'old days' before the buzzwords 'core competencies', 'stakeholder value' and numeric-based 'performance management processes' were the order of the day. Whatever happened to just showing the fuck up and doing your job?

I can probably answer that anyway. The push in corporate 'culture' (I can't ever shake the clinical meaning of this word in that context) seems to be 'squeeze until all the blood is gone, then give it a good shake just to be sure'.

You give a significant part of your waking life to support whatever 'initiatives' there are, usually without paid overtime or the ability to make long-term plans (I'm talking the on-call duties, the assumed nature that if you have some 'issue' that you'll be on-the-spot or rearrange everything to take care of it, usually with other personal things taking the hit) when things go awry. I guess I'm talking more about the technical arena, where everything has to run 365-24-7, gotta push those 'nines' of uptime!!

It wears you out. Do I get compensated? Yes. Does it become a diminishing return when other things are factored in? Sometimes, it does. Money only does so much.

And to head off the predictable 'get another job', 'I work for myself, and I can eat cornchips and masturbate while watching tv all day if I want to -- so what is your problem' and the usual 'given this economy you should be grateful to even be employed' people, all I can say is -- technology based jobs have different sets of expectations which are not remedied by simplistic remedies.

Thus ends the billboard post.

Programmers are the new blue-collar workforce. Bangalore or bust! Viva global economy!
#44 by "Teh Lerkar"
2003-10-13 12:56:43
Hugin:

Try Magic The Gathering. People knock it but it's still around for a reason.....it's just plain fun. With well over 3000+ unique cards it'll keep you entertained.
#45 by Gunp01nt
2003-10-13 13:48:55
supersimon33@hotmail.com
#0

I've had this period of utter disappointment where I played several games, but none appealed to me in a big way. I mostly suffered through them just to see if it would get better. Jedi Academy being the most recent one, C&C Generals, Warcraft 3,... being others. But recently, Elite Force 2 opened my eyes again with a compelling storyline, action packed, well planned maps that just pull you in, great architecture, you name it.

I guess it just depends on the games you're playing. Lately, a lot of reputable developers have been letting me down bigtime, dropping the nubmer of games I buy to an even lower point than when I bought Tiberian Sun on impulse. Imho some developers are growing a bit careless or too cautious. Take Unreal 2: it had potential but the way Legend was obviously struggling with the question of how to make the game appeal to many people kinda killed the game.

Wir flashen jedes Weekend, und alles just for you
We do this cause we love it, come here und hör uns zu
#46 by Dethstryk
2003-10-13 13:50:41
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Isn't M:TG supposed to be switching to some weird format that a bunch of people aren't crazy about? I remember hearing a few of the sweatier Magic fans talking about that.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#47 by OwenButler
2003-10-13 14:04:20
http://blog.owenbutler.org/
#45

I thought Elite Force 1 was quite good.  I looked forward to 2.  I enjoyed the actual missions, but the damn interludes (on the ship and in the university) almost made me stop playing.  It's like they put them in there to flesh the game out, because there wasn't enough content.  Run to Point a, then run back to the point furthest to you..  just so you can go to the next mission..  arg!
#48 by Gunp01nt
2003-10-13 14:12:44
supersimon33@hotmail.com
OwenButler:

I thought those intermissions (and the choices you have in some conversations) were a refreshing Wing Commander-style addition to balance all the action and shooting a little. it added a bit of an adventure-feeling. I liked the interludes, especially because the missions are so compelling and action-packed.

Wir flashen jedes Weekend, und alles just for you
We do this cause we love it, come here und hör uns zu
#49 by LPMiller
2003-10-13 14:17:10
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I'm nearing 35, and I can't say I see any of this, but then, I never had a lot of patence with crappy design to begin with. I think I've said it many a time - I buy a game to be entertained. If I want a challenge, I'll climb a mountain.

So I can't say that I'm losing patience for games I never had a lot of to begin with. I still have the same love, there are still games I'll buy and never finish, and others I'll play to death. If the ratios change, that's usually me buying into marketing, not anything else.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#50 by Marsh Davies
2003-10-13 14:46:34
www.verbalchilli.com
Nice post, Hugin.

I don't think age is at the root, though: I'm 20 and I can't find the enthusiasm to finish games. Even GTA3, which I loved, never got completed. Also, Vice City. Wolfenstein, which I bought off a friend for a fiver (overpriced) about a month ago, got binned within the first half hour of play. Most games don't make it past my demo filter. If I do finish a game, it's because I've cheated just to see what happens, and I'm invariably disappointed because the story-lines are crap anyway. I watch a lot more movies though.

Talking of which, Cabin Fever is entertaining, but not a horror movie. I went to the film having read Harry Knowles pathetically earnest semi-literate chimp-like blither about it, believing it to be the only decent horror film of recent times, and sat bemused through the first half-hour wondering whether I was meant to be laughing. So it's basically another cop-out (albeit an above average one with some damn funny moments), where the film-makers have exchanged genuine terror for pastiche. Again.

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