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Various, Sometimes Coherent Ramblings On Recent Events
July 2nd 2000, 12:01 CEST by jeet

Ok, skip this one if you're looking for something specific. I've got a few things eating at me, and I'm feeling vocal enough to get them off my chest. If you're up to it, read on. If not, skip on over to another thread. I will tell you that this little diatribe is divided into two parts. Skip one, read the other, or don't read any of it. Makes no difference to me, pilgrim.

Let's see. It's 4:30am here in Beaumont, Texas. I've just returned home from a night of drinking and socializing and all that fun jazz. I've also, more than likely, ended yet another short-term relationship just in the past couple of hours.

Ok, don't be afraid. I won't harp on this for too long before I jump on into something else completely different - but, I have to wonder, is every woman in existence a damned drama queen? Real quick, a little background. I've started dating single mothers in the recent past. My theory behind this being that they should, one would assume, be more grounded in reality than ditzy soroity bimbos with the munchies from an all night kegger at the local frat house. Now, this one wench I've been seeing very regularly for the past week and a half or so, well, she's got herself three little tikes at ye olde homestead. Very cool chick, very hip, very fun. Until she gets drunk. Then the hidden face of the Drama is revealed.

And this brings me to my point, kids. There exists, in relationships, what I like to call the "Scooby Doo Factor." All it basically says is this: the Factor is the moment at which the mask of smart, fun, and witty is removed (much like the monster's mask in the cartoons is ripped off to reveal the old curmudgeon beneath) and all that's left is the truth of dumb, boring, and innane.

Am I bitter when it comes to women? One would tend to think so. Hell, I'm starting to think that way myself. Ah, but who cares much anyway? Let's move on to why I'm really posting a topic, shall we?

So here it is, to those of you cool enough to suffer through the first few paragraphs. What the hell are we doing, and why the fuck are we doing it? There. Simple. What does it mean? Don't worry, I'm a-gonna tell ya.

Why do we here at PlanetCrap really care about some legal technicality that will never come into play? Why do we jump on it and beat it into the ground with clubs the size of Kansas and with all the tact and grace of a sea lion acting as moile with his tusks at a brisk? I honestly don't know. Maybe we're bored. Maybe we're paranoid. Maybe we actually believe we're right. But, in the end, who gives a rat's ass?

Apparently, those that are 'picked on' do. They jump on the thread faster than Tyson on an ear, and with more passion than a randy street mutt at a poodle show. They retaliate against whatever little gripe was brought up, and they lash out with such aggressiveness that even I have to take a step back at times.

Then, the weirdest fucking thing happens. People begin taking sides. People begin backing us up for no other reason than because we said what we said a bit more eloquently than the other guy did. Listen, people. Listen closely. Let me give you a good tip: Never accept anything you read on the Internet, or anywhere else for that matter, as absolute canon. More often than not, most folks are talking directly out of their ass-sphincters by taking a few concrete facts and lacing them heavily, like happy party brownies at a high school goth club social, with their opinions and prose.

Here's the simple fact, though. There cannot be a site such as PC without personal opinion and commentary. We're not a news site. We're a commentary site. Everything you read here should be taken as such. When we quote facts, you can bet your ass that they're as factual and as true as we can find them. But when you read the opinion and speculation that those facts bring, please realize what you're reading and make up your own god damned minds based on the facts themselves, and not what we - or anyone else that visits here - prattles off.

This is exactly why I so rarely post any topic based on news or facts that I've gathered. It's just too damned much trouble for too damned little return. I have much more fun just writing a pure opinion piece that people scratch their heads at before saying 'Fuck it' and launching up a new game of Pong2k or Space Bunnies Must Die.

So here's my point: lighten up. If we say something here that you, or your company, doesn't agree with - then rant on. Unleash your opinions based on the same facts. Let us have it. But don't, please, start chewing on our ankles and giving us wedgies just because we commented on some scattered facts. Or do. Go right ahead. It's your choice. We still love you all, or at least I do.

Ok, that last sentence was a bit of a lie. I don't really love anyone....which is where my "intimacy issues" must come from. Hrmmm, I wonder if that might explain the woman problems.... Ya think?


Uncle Yes, I still want her, even though I shouldn't, and I'll let her come back like the dumb tripod that I am Jeet
C O M M E N T S
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#1 by "Uncle Jeet"
2000-07-02 12:02:29
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
First!

<b>Uncle</b> <i>That's right, damned rat bastard what have to be first and let the world know....</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#2 by "Geoffrois"
2000-07-02 12:18:11
You can't just be first on your own topic, it's anti-moral... in my book atleast.
#3 by "shaithis"
2000-07-02 12:19:45
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
Are goth brownies really that happy? Seems kind of wrong for the culture...

;)

-shaithis
#4 by "None-1a"
2000-07-02 13:16:12
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
I was wondering when the topic start would do that.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#5 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-07-02 13:26:46
tc10@spammeandfeelpainlikenootherpain.st-andrews.a http://www.fisty.com/~tom
Brief summary of what I think the problem is:
People take things too seriously on the 'net. They treat conversations on the 'net as if they were real conversations - fact is, you just can't do this. You see only the words, not the subtle nuances in this sort of discussion, and that means that you cannot treat real conversations and forum discussions in the same way. That's what leads to misunderstandings and stupidity, although I think there are other factors involved too, which I won't get in to right now.
#6 by "kegie"
2000-07-02 13:42:37
kegie@acc.umu.se http://www.acc.umu.se/~kegie/
Umm I don't know if I'm getting all what you're saying, but..
You dumped her because she was less witty when drunk? I don't know, but I'm usually not my most clever self when loaded with alcohol...
Anyway I bet there's more to the story ;)

I agree totally with you on the taking things seriously part.. I mean, it's all just a way to spend free time anyway. Never take things you read on the net seriously. And definately never sue over something said on the crap! I mean, the name itself says it all (imho).

- kegie
#7 by "DanM"
2000-07-02 14:17:17
Glad to see you back Jeet. The voice of reason has returned:)
#8 by "Andy"
2000-07-02 14:58:08
andy@planetcrap.com
<quote>
Why do we here at PlanetCrap really care about some legal technicality that will never come into play?
</quote>
Because it might. ;-)
#9 by "MCorleone"
2000-07-02 15:28:14
john_st123@hotmail.com
In the immortal words of a friend of mine when I was 20:

"Every woman is fucked up.  The trick is to find the least fucked up one."

And as a corollary, I think that rule applies to myself also.
#10 by "Desiato"
2000-07-02 16:20:24
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Tom and MCorleone -- I would have to agree that a "conversation" on a forum here could _never_ duplicate something face to face. It also suffers that "feedback loop" that you usually have when talking to someone -- such as, I make a statement -- see your facial expression change and the timbre of your voice waver, I know I've taken the wrong path -- or hit a serious nerve, or just plain went overboard.

There is no feedback system in place here. That is why threads tend to gyrate out of control -- small misperceptions made by everyone (and myself) can amplify and become big hulking monsters that would be easily squashed had they been brought out in a real conversational way among a "live" audience.

Jeet -- As far as dating single mothers, perhaps that may not be the best move -- there is a lot of emotional "baggage" that comes along with that, (and I'm not talking about the kids, it isn't their fault -- they're pretty innocent..) and a single mother may be in the position to "latch on" and not let go, which may weird you out. As far as her being a totally different person drunk -- well, that is something else...

Me personally? I laugh at *everything* when I'm blitzed. But hey, I have a generally humorous disposition to begin with. The ones you have to watch out for are the "changelings". You know, the happy or semi-normal people that become abusive violent smoldering drunks, or just - as you put it - become "drama queens", which I'm interpreting as someone who has violent mood swings, she can be happy one minute and sobbingly sad the next.

Ugh...what a roller coaster -- I can understand if you decided that the "real" person revealed may not be the one for you.....

Good luck man..


Desiato
#11 by "MCorleone"
2000-07-02 16:48:38
john_st123@hotmail.com
I _lived_ with a single mother who was my fiance at the time.  She also had Anorexia/Bulemia.  

That was my own living, breathing, roller-coaster construction set.

Thank God I'm off that ride...
#12 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-07-02 17:50:14
tc10@spammeandfeelpainlikenootherpain.st-andrews.a http://www.fisty.com/~tom
<b>Desiato:</b>
<quote>There is no feedback system in place here. That is why threads tend to gyrate out of control -- small misperceptions made by everyone (and myself) can amplify and become big hulking monsters that would be easily squashed had they been brought out in a real conversational way among a "live" audience.</quote>
Bang on. That's where most forums go horribly wrong. Add to that the similar problem, that one can't interrupt the other person, or cut them off in mid-flow, and things get said, misconstrued or otherwise exaggerated.
Roll on high-speed 'net for all, and a video-based 'Crap :)
#13 by "DanM"
2000-07-02 18:16:25
In addition to no feedback it is also an open
arena which fuels anger and bravado because
you have an audience.
#14 by "Mr_D"
2000-07-02 18:36:27
mrd@megsinet.net
I've come out of lurking at last.
The lack of a "feedback system" seems to be a symptom of webboards and USENet.  I come from IRC, where this "feedback system" is almost in place.  Being real-time, people have time to interject when a conversation seems to be going into touchy territory.  On bulletin boards, there is a lag time between when Person A says "hey, that isn't cool" and Person B gets a chance to apologize or whatever, so Person A thinks for several hours that Person B is a really mean person.  Of course, the spontanaiety(I know I spelled that wrong) of IRC tends to lead to disjointed conversations faster than a web board may.  IRC also lacks the "humanity" of a real conversation.

Of course the solution to both of these is to just sit back and say "hey, it's just IRC/PlanetCrap" whenever someone says something nasty.  I myself am guilty of not doing this sometimes, so maybe I shouldn't talk...

-Mr_D
P.S. CrapSpy seems to be a fantastic program.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#15 by "Desiato"
2000-07-02 19:11:02
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
I have an idea -- if things *do* get nasty or just simply out of control....how about a logged IRC chat that is scheduled between all interested parties?

Then posted somewhere on site or whatever...

I think that would be pretty interesting.


Desiato
#16 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-07-02 19:36:51
tc10@spammeandfeelpainlikenootherpain.st-andrews.a http://www.fisty.com/~tom
Intriguing idea... you mean like a duel, kinda thing? Sort of - an argument starts; person X says 'pistols at dawn, DALNet #pcduels' and they log it?
What a very interesting idea.
#17 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-02 19:48:44
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>I have an idea -- if things *do* get nasty or just simply out of control....how about a logged IRC chat that is scheduled between all interested parties? </quote>
Ew, I'd think that would make it worse.

I prefer the idea of closing CrapSpy or your browser, going to watch some TV, reading a book, having sex, whatever, then coming back (no pun intended) the next day and see if you're still angry.

Don't post when angry. It's as simple as that.
#18 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-02 19:49:54
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
how about I just bludgeon both parties with my LART or clue by four ?



BOFH mode on.


Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#19 by "Scott Miller, 3D Realms"
2000-07-02 20:12:01
scottm@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com
I'll just say on the record that I do not take anything much too serious at this site--as I've said, I consider it inconsequential for the most part, but somewhat entertaining.  Much to many people's delight, I'm sure I'll become bored of Andy's tactics in a week or two, and not return for months or more again.

<QUOTE>Why do we here at PlanetCrap really care...Why do we jump on it and beat it into the ground...But, in the end, who gives a rat's ass?  Apparently, those that are 'picked on' do. They jump on the thread faster than Tyson on an ear.</QUOTE>

Actually, let's get this straight...it's Andy or someone else at PC who bites the ear!  People like myself are merely trying to get his ravenous jaws away from the other ear!  ;)

<QUOTE>There cannot be a site such as PC without personal opinion and commentary. We're not a news site. We're a commentary site. Everything you read here should be taken as such. </QUOTE>

That's fine and dandy, except Andy in particular will contrive the most pie-in-the-sky, paranoid conclusions from a hand picked set of evidence (often ignorance evidence that will work against his, um, theories).

This site could be so much better without his kind of stir-the-crap-above-all-else commentary.  I'd prefer well reasoned opinion pieces, much like BitchX more often provided us.  Old Man Murray also does a far better job on their opinion pieces than Andy.  Geoff Keighley is another editorially oriented writer (www.gameslice.com) that I really enjoy--his The Gist List commentaries have substance and a solid foundation in fact.

Alas, PC has Andy, and his poorly considered rants and attacks simply hold PC back from being THE industry's watering hole, and leave the door open for another site, sooner or later, to become that place.

Scott
#20 by "Morn"
2000-07-02 20:35:19
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<quote>
Alas, PC has Andy, and his poorly considered rants and attacks simply hold PC back from being THE industry's watering hole, and leave the door open for another site, sooner or later, to become that place.
</quote>

Scott, you must realize that the gist of PlanetCrap is not its stories, but rather the comments posted in reply to them. Hell, <i>most</i> of our stories probably seem "poorly considered" to at least <i>one</i> party, but wouldn't you rather have a site with "poorly considered" stories and <i>intelligent</i> comments (which, methinks, is the case for the majority of comments posted here) than a site with "well considered" stories and <i>horrible</i> user comments?

- Morn
#21 by "Desiato"
2000-07-02 20:38:29
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Holy Crap!

Morn *is* alive!!


Desiato
#22 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-02 20:40:04
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>wouldn't you rather have a site with "poorly considered" stories and intelligent comments (which, methinks, is the case for the majority of comments posted here) than a site with "well considered" stories and horrible user comments? </quote>
Well, I can only speak for myself when I say my expectations are that the stories are supposed to be more "considered" than the comments, because we can assume more time was spent on them than the average user comment. And while there's a pretty decent signal/noise ratio here, I'd hate to have to rely entirely on wading through 300+ messages in order to find the one message that corrects a factual error in a story.
#23 by "Desiato"
2000-07-02 20:43:56
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Steve -- I know what you're thinking -- "Go to IRC, still pissed and *chat*?? No freakin way!!"

No -- that wouldn't be productive....however, a IRC chat with some observers *and* a moderator where each party gets time to type their response would probably be good -- I prefer the Parlimentary style for that kind of engagement...one person having the floor, etc...

Anyway -- it would be set up so that it wouldn't be just hours or a day from the initial confrontation....you would definately need a "cooling" period anyway, and I would personally ask both parties to refrain from posting until the "live" event -- to keep things calm.

Just an idea....thanks Tom for your agreement.

Desiato
#24 by "Ian"
2000-07-02 21:00:27
terrencelaukkanen@hotmail.com
Regarding <b>#19</b>:

It was only a matter of time before Jeet's ramblings allowed Miller to attack Andy. Give it a break, will you?

On a different topic, dating a single mother is like playing Russian Roulette, depending on the type of mother (ie, divorced mother who had kids while married {better} or crack whore with three kids from three different fathers {worse}). If you date her for a while and then leave, then the courts can (and have done it before) call you a surrogate father and force you to pay child support (bad news). Besides, if they made the mistake of having kids before, how long will it be before there are little Jeets running around?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#25 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-07-02 21:02:00
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
little jeets running around

YE GODS, what a terrifying thought !


Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#26 by "Darren"
2000-07-02 21:05:12
darren@sofnet.com
<QUOTE>
Besides, if they made the mistake of having kids before, how long will it be before there are little Jeets running around?</QUOTE>

God, I hope no single mothers read that<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#27 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-02 21:17:54
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>Besides, if they made the mistake of having kids before, how long will it be before there are little Jeets running around? </quote>
Hmm, all kids are mistakes? Are widows acceptible?

Dating a single mother is like dating any other person, man or woman. We all enter every relationship with past baggage, we all have boundaries, we all have limitations. There's a greater committment required of any man entering a relationship with a single-mother because there's a chance of attachment with the child. I have a lot of respect for any man or woman who can do it.

If anyone wants to read a funny book about dating single-mothers, check out Nick Hornby's "About a Boy."
#28 by "Ian"
2000-07-02 21:31:40
terrencelaukkanen@hotmail.com
<b>#27</b> "Steve Bauman" wrote...

<quote>
Hmm, all kids are mistakes? Are widows acceptible?
</quote>

If you have a child out of wed lock, it is a mistake 99 and 44/100 % of the time. If a pregnancy is not planned it is either a mistake, or an accident. Of course, this doesn't refer to widows or single mothers by divorce

<quote>
Dating a single mother is like dating any other person, man or woman. We all enter every relationship with past baggage, we all have boundaries, we all have limitations. There's a greater committment required of any man entering a relationship with a single-mother because there's a chance of attachment with the child. I have a lot of respect for any man or woman who can do it.
</QUOTE>

That would be true, except for the fact that you don't have to pay child support to "emotional baggage".

What single mothers don't need is a casual relationship. To paraphrase Cuba Gooding Jr., they've been to Oz and seen behind the curtain. They need a father for their children and the unless you want to be that father, dating a single mother is bad news. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#29 by "flamethrower"
2000-07-02 21:49:41
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
<b>#19</b> "Scott Miller, 3D Realms" wrote...
<QUOTE>

I'd prefer well reasoned opinion pieces, much like BitchX more often provided us. Old Man Murray also does a far better job on their opinion pieces than Andy. </QUOTE>

Be careful what you wish for. The *webpage* of OMM does a better job than Planetcrap, IMHO. The same was said of the late BX. It's also why Evil Avatar rates so highly, even though he splices a chilli pepper into your bottom everytime 3D-Reams gets mentioned.

BX had the bonus of not having forums, so try visiting the OMM instead. Well reasoned? Not parnaoid? Not offensive? Are they fuck as like.

Fuck dude, even a thicky like meself can compare apples and oranges and say that neither taste of grape.

So me a webforum that kicks anywhere as much ass as here or Evil Avatars...
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#30 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-02 21:51:53
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>If you have a child out of wed lock, it is a mistake 99 and 44/100 % of the time. If a pregnancy is not planned it is either a mistake, or an accident. </quote>
Well, I thought a fairly significant number of single women were choosing to have children without marriage, but I can't argue with legitimate facts and stats like you've presented.

<quote>What single mothers don't need is a casual relationship ... They need a father for their children and the unless you want to be that father, dating a single mother is bad news. </quote>
Well, the few single mothers I've known have said otherwise. A lot of women, with or without children, are not interested in casual relationships.
#31 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-02 21:57:16
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>I'd prefer well reasoned opinion pieces, much like BitchX more often provided us. </quote>
Well, they were entertaining, but it's hard to put any faith in an anonymous writer being supplied anonymous tips.

I sorta laugh at the Fatbabies guys dismissing libel threats, saying they're only reporting what others are telling them and therefore protected. Well guess what? If those sources turn out to be factually incorrect and are proven to have malicious intent (say the people are former employees looking to "stick it" to the company), the person reporting that libelous material is accountable. Whee!
#32 by "Apache"
2000-07-02 22:03:12
While I like the idea behind planetcrap, I could use less of the 'tabloid topics' and go for a little more unbiased selections. It's one thing to accuse others of bias for the topics; then it's another to show bias [with the topic selection] towards an entity, person or organization in such a blatant manner.

Tabloid 'journalism' sites like OMM, Fatbabies, and formerly BitchX etc have about as much entertainment value as the Jerry Springer Show. While interesting and fun in a morbid kind of way, it's 90% <b>fake</b>. i.e.- Why write about news when you can just make it up? I don't want Planetcrap to end up like that.
#33 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-02 22:13:08
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>Tabloid 'journalism' sites like OMM, Fatbabies, and formerly BitchX etc have about as much entertainment value as the Jerry Springer Show. While interesting and fun in a morbid kind of way, it's 90% fake. i.e.- Why write about news when you can just make it up? </quote>
I love the "Fatbabies Gems."

"Here's where we point out when we were right."

Um, what about the times you were wrong?

That's actually the problem I have with sites such as that. They don't give equal time to when they're wrong. I've sent in multiple corrections or clarifications, but none have ever received any coverage.

For example, they recently speculated that, much like Daikatana, Blizzard was hiding Diablo 2 from reviewers by not sending out golds. I pointed out that in this case, all three CDs are copy protected, so the cost involved with creating golds for the entire press corp would be prohibitive. Either that or send out a few and risk alienating the rest of the press.

But with much of the online reporting (Fatbabies, BitchX), the sites don't really point out that what they're reporting could just be a disgruntled ex-employee backstabbing his or her former employer. I found this quote from one of my old editorials that is fairly relevant to this issue

<quote>Washington Post ombsudsman Geneva Overholser believes that reporters should refuse to let people make negative comments anonymously, claiming it poisons the atmosphere while making it impossible to gauge the significance of the criticism.</quote>

Obviously anonymity has its place (particularly when your life is at stake), but it becomes the duty of the reporter to vigorously fact check the information and try to get at least one person to go on the record verifying at least a portion of the facts.
#34 by "Scott Miller, 3D Realms"
2000-07-02 22:14:15
scottm@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com
Steve: "Well, [BitchX was] entertaining, but it's hard to put any faith in an anonymous writer being supplied anonymous tips."

I guess I have the advantage of knowing who BitchX is, and this person is definitely well connected and well respected -- and growing success is what's now keeping BX from further posts.

"I sorta laugh at the Fatbabies guys dismissing libel threats..."

Fatbabies doesn't have anyone there who can put together a good opinion piece.  The only thing of value there are the actual email reprints.  Their forums are also mostly a waste.

Someone else in this thread that the stories are less important than the follow-up messages, which I think is utterly wrong.  The stories set the tone for the messages, which I agree are very valuable.  But the problem occurs when the stories are misleading, poorly researched and generally without merit.

Scott
#35 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-02 22:22:47
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>I guess I have the advantage of knowing who BitchX is, and this person is definitely well connected and well respected -- and growing success is what's now keeping BX from further posts. </quote>
Well, I know who he/she/it is too (I think). And knowing that person's current gig, I'm not surprised there's no time for updates.

<quote>Their forums are also mostly a waste. </quote>
Ugh, what a wasteland.

<quote>The stories set the tone for the messages, which I agree are very valuable. But the problem occurs when the stories are misleading, poorly researched and generally without merit. </quote>
I'm in total agreement with you.

Well, I submitted my first story to get the 'Crap treatment. It's not an opinion piece or even remotely controversial, so I doubt it'll be that exciting. But it's fairly relevant to recent events that have occurred here... (and seem to be infecting every thread... it's that "libel" thing)
#36 by "Andy"
2000-07-02 22:29:25
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#35</b>, Steve Bauman:
<QUOTE>
<quote>Scott:
The stories set the tone for the messages, which I agree are very valuable. But the problem occurs when the stories are misleading, poorly researched and generally without merit. </quote>
I'm in total agreement with you.
</QUOTE>
You are?
#37 by "Apache"
2000-07-02 22:33:21
Sheesh, does everyone know who BitchX is? (I thought i was special)

Another interesting topic would be the lack of battle.net servers available for realm character play. Four realms, 200,000 players currently when there needs to be about ten realms and at <b>least</b> support for a half million people.
#38 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-02 22:33:56
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>You are? </quote>
I agreed with teh stories setting the tone for the messages, but I shoulda clarified that "if" (as opposed to "when") the stories are misleading there's a problem.

Call me an idealist, but I want good articles with good discussions.
#39 by "Ian"
2000-07-02 22:43:37
terrencelaukkanen@hotmail.com
<b>#30</b> "Steve Bauman" wrote...
<QUOTE>
Well, I thought a fairly significant number of single women were choosing to have children without marriage, but I can't argue with legitimate facts and stats like you've presented.
</QUOTE>

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. I'll be the first to admit I pulled those numbers out of my ass to make a point. I guess I can't believe anyone would conciously choose to have a child with no father, not only for the childs sake (having a father figure undoubtedly reflects better on the child) but for extra financial and emotional support for the mother.

I think that some people stumble into a child through their own stupidity, by way of not using birth control, or not having an abortion (Which is admitedly, a different area altogether. I just find it amusing when a single mother claims they didn't have an abortion for "religious reasons". Where was the religion when they were getting casual sex from the closest barfly?)

<quote>
Well, the few single mothers I've known have said otherwise. A lot of women, with or without children, are not interested in casual relationships.
</quote>

I suppose some might. However, if you get into a relationship with a single mother, you will become either hated by the kid (bad), or loved by the kid (also bad, depending on whether you are planning on staying for a long time or not.). Either way it is a very tough situation.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#40 by "Illbuddha"
2000-07-02 22:48:23
ck@databass.com http://www.databass.com/ck/
Apache said:

<QUOTE>Tabloid 'journalism' sites like OMM, Fatbabies, and formerly BitchX etc have about as much entertainment value as the Jerry Springer Show. While interesting and fun in a morbid kind of way, it's 90% fake. i.e.- Why write about news when you can just make it up? I don't want Planetcrap to end up like that.</QUOTE>

I have to respectfully disagree with you here. Planetcrap <B>IS</B> the Jerry Springer show. To abuse this analogy even further, I will go as far as to say that Old Man Murray and Bitch-X are the crystal meth industry versions of Entertainment Tonight and Extra!

Maybe Springer is "factually correct" Maybe some episodes are paid actors, and stories made up out of whole cloth. Either way, you generally get to see overweight people from some southern U.S. armpit smack each other up and make asses of themselves. (This part of the analogy doesn't HAVE to refer to the staff of 3D-Realms unless you like the idea of George Broussard smothering Andy under his gigantic BBQ-fed belly)

So I don't watch Springer. I read Planetcrap.
#41 by "Show Time"
2000-07-02 23:32:05
Heeeeeyyyyy. This is basically a summation of what I said in the #102 response to the Evil Avatar story (Jeet probably said it more coherently though.) So it goes without saying that I agree.
#42 by "Ryan Greene"
2000-07-02 23:35:53
rxgreene@netzero.com
<b>RE: Dating</b>
I gave up on American women... By and large I found them to be too self centered, needy, and whiny.

Solution: I married someone from Europe, who came here (literally) with her suitcase in her hand, and busted her butt to get where she is today.

Why? Because if she wants something, she does what it takes to get it, and she doesn't expect me to provide it for her on a silver platter.

So Jeet, I'd reccomend finding a "self starter", rather than a drunken sod. More initiative, less drama and head games.

<b>RE: The crap that gets flung around here</b>
Sometimes I think a lot of this stuff could be solved if eveyone would be a little less myopic, and try and see the bigger picture, on both sides of an issue.

Alternately, mebbe a phone call would do, with people able to just hear the inflections in the other persons voice would help...
#43 by "Show Time"
2000-07-02 23:43:37
<QUOTE>Alternately, mebbe a phone call would do, with people able to just hear the inflections in the other persons voice would help... </QUOTE>

I think you're very right, I've always been a big fan of voice communication in games and chat rooms. I mess around alot in the voice chat at 3Dfiles.com. It goes along with the theory that the reason people are so rude on the internet is that they are insulting a voiceless entity in text, from miles and miles away. I've found people to be alot more polite when they are listening to an actual person's voice, or talking themselves. If it were up to me voice communication would be a standard in every game and every chatroom. It's the best solution I've seen to flame wars and general childish behavior in the gaming community.
#44 by "Andy"
2000-07-03 00:08:11
andy@planetcrap.com
Long story to make a short point...

On the last version of the 'Crap I posted a story about a British ISP called X-Stream. The managing director of the company posted here with the same patronising tone as Scott Miller, complimenting everyone else and using my name over and over again like any second-rate PR person would.

The next month I wrote a report on ISP's for a magazine, and one of the companies we covered was X-Stream. There were around a dozen pieces of information I tried to get from each ISP. All of them gave all of the information, apart from X-Stream, which refused to say how much bandwidth it had and who supplied its backbone.

After the report was published, the X-Stream MD called up the magazine and complained about the way his company had been presented. (I'd stated that they refused to give certain information, and I'd included them in the "ones to avoid" section.) The editor asked me to call the guy and discuss it with him, so I did.

Any guesses what he was like on the phone? Yep, exactly the same as he'd been here on the 'Crap. Patronising, aggressive, abusive, but still unwilling to answer the most simple of questions about his company.

Some people defend themselves with a lot of fuss and bluster because that's all they've got. I don't believe that talking to those people on the phone would help.

Would it help settle some of the arguments that spring up within the threads? Some of them, sure, but not many. You'd get a temporary truce, but long term I don't think it would make any difference. Some people will never get along, and some people will always want to take an opposing view.

Besides, what's the point of having a public forum if all the discussions end up fragmented into a load of one-to-one phone calls?
#45 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-07-03 00:16:59
tc10@spammeandfeelpainlikenootherpain.st-andrews.a http://www.fisty.com/~tom
<b>Ian:</b>
<quote>I guess I can't believe anyone would conciously choose to have a child with no father...</quote>
Since when does a man have to be married to a sprog's mother to be its father? I can assure you that there are plenty of couples doing what the church would refer to as 'living in sin', but living their lives no differently from any married couple - and that includes the planning or otherwise of pregnancies. What's more, plenty of married couples have accidental or unplanned pregnancies too - at least one of my friends was a mistake :)
#46 by "McGrew"
2000-07-03 00:25:47
mcgrew@famvid.com http://TheFragfest.com
Jeet: A single mother must be having relationship poblems, or she wouldn't be a single mother. Perhaps she just had a relationship problem with just one azzo, or maybe it;s her, but you're asking for trouble unless you know her <i>very</i> well.
-Great Uncle Steve
(yes, I really am a great uncle, just not yours)
#47 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-03 00:29:57
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>#46</b> "McGrew" wrote...
<QUOTE>A single mother must be having relationship poblems, or she wouldn't be a single mother.</QUOTE>
I wouldn't go as far to say that. There are very many single mothers who do not have the father of their child around simply because the father ran off, like a little chickenshit. You can blame the males for some of this stuff, too.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#48 by "flamethrower"
2000-07-03 00:31:21
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
<b>#44</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>The managing director of the company posted here with the same patronising tone as Scott Miller, complimenting everyone else and using my name over and over again like any second-rate PR person would. </QUOTE>

Yeah. The only think that would make me cut Miller more slack than X-Stream's MD is transparency of product quality. An ISP can hide behind advertising, there's little data on them and what there is tends to be spun or obscure, or both.

Pukem won't have that benefit. If it's a shit game, the entire world will be told so. If it's a hot slice of gaming goodness pie with quality pastry, bug-free filling, and addictivness custard (!) again, the world will be told so. And if it's medicore or flawed somehow, that'll be banded around too.

If there's one thing The Hair has taught us - reputation is nothing, product is everthing.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#49 by "Andy"
2000-07-03 00:31:24
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#46</b>, McGrew:
<QUOTE>
Jeet: A single mother must be having relationship poblems, or she wouldn't be a single mother.
</QUOTE>
Unless the father died.

Or was killed.

Or left.

Or is in prison.

Or beat her up so she left him.

Or any number of other reasons why she could be single without it being her fault.
#50 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-03 00:34:34
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>A single mother must be having relationship poblems, or she wouldn't be a single mother. </quote>
Yes, the only truly "together" woman is a married one. And it's always the fault of the woman when they're single.

Hmm, I don't know any women like this. I must know the wrong women.
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