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Doom 3 - Running scared of Valve?
July 24th 2003, 00:36 CEST by Neale

Doom 3 appears to have been delayed (not pushed back - it seems to be id's decision). The cynic in me suggests two possibilities:

1) They don't want a SiN/Half-Life release situation (not that I think Doom 3 will turn out like SiN) where sales will be affected by HL2's popularity.

2) They're reworking portions of the gameplay after seeing the level of interactivity and enormous interest in HL2.

Thoughts?
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Home » Topic: Doom 3 - Running scared of Valve?

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#1 by Post-It
2003-07-24 00:37:26
keithlee@speakeasy.net
I want a pizza.

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#2 by Shadarr
2003-07-24 00:39:33
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
With mushrooms?  I'd split a pizza with mushrooms.
#3 by Squeaky
2003-07-24 00:40:53
I'll have my usual garlic and cheese pizza.

Dip me in chocolate and throw me to the lesbians.
DVDs
#4 by yotsuya
2003-07-24 00:41:04
Mmmmmm......pizza.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#5 by Greg
2003-07-24 00:42:19
Does id have the manpower to rework large portions of the gameplay? Aren't they running with a pretty small (<20) team?

If either of Neale's options are true, I'd think it would be the first option. But other ones have been bandied about like letting the hardware catch up so more people will be able to play the game, as a six or eight month delay should cause the baseline hardware to increase to a more Doom 3-friendly level.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#6 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-07-24 00:50:57
Somehow I don't think Id is terribly concerned with when their games get released or what competing companies are doing tech or gameplay wise. I don't think Half-Life 2 is at all influencing Doom 3 in any way, be it gameplay or release dates.

I kid cause I care.
#7 by Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf
2003-07-24 00:55:17
3) Need to give HL/2 fanbois and conspiracy theorists something to do until HL2 comes out.

---
Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf
Minister of Information, Electronic Arts
#8 by CheesyPoof
2003-07-24 01:00:40
Maybe they just want to give it that Blizzard level of polish.  You know, it just isn't done yet.
#9 by Matt Perkins
2003-07-24 01:01:26
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I agree with Trunk here...

Now other companies *cough*3DR*cough* might be more likely to be worried after seeing what HL2 has to offer.

Vampire roleplayers are almost always weirder than D&D players...and that's saying something.
#10 by Ergo
2003-07-24 01:07:29
I doubt that id is really concerned about hardware limits. Their games drive hardware adoption.

#11 by yotsuya
2003-07-24 01:15:42
So when IS DNF coming out?

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#12 by Shadarr
2003-07-24 01:18:20
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I'm gonna guess never.
#13 by jjohnsen
2003-07-24 01:24:44
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Why would id care?  They can hold off as long as they want, I'm assuming Carmack has more money than
#14 by Squeaky
2003-07-24 01:26:28
than what?

Dip me in chocolate and throw me to the lesbians.
DVDs
#15 by mrbloo
2003-07-24 01:27:47
mrbloo2000@hotmail.com
yeah, man, don't leave us in suspense!  than what?

#16 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-07-24 01:32:38
god?

I kid cause I care.
#17 by Squeaky
2003-07-24 01:43:05
bill?

Dip me in chocolate and throw me to the lesbians.
DVDs
#18 by Warren Marshall
2003-07-24 01:52:26
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
They can hold off, but they have to think long term.  Releasing Doom3 when it isn't cutting edge won't do wonders for their next games hype level.  Carmack/id have tons of money, but that doesn't mean they don't need to compete.

#19 by Darkseid-D
2003-07-24 02:11:25
rogerboal@hotmail.com
Hasnt Carmack intimated hes getting bored of coding and is close to quitting and just working full time on Armadillo Airspace?

Doom 3 could be his last hurrah...

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#20 by Creole Ned
2003-07-24 02:34:53
They're focusing on the most advanced technology they've put in a game yet and on a supposedly rich single player story. The former probably requires a lot of experimentation to get right and content creation for single player FPS's just plain takes time unless you use Raven's "room-corridor-bottomless pit" design template. So my guess is it's just taking longer than expected to finish. I've no doubt HL2 will be dazzling as all get-out but I suspect Doom 3's lighting, if nothing else, will still allow the game to stand out.

The delay is probably going to be less than six months, which isn't that much slippage for a major FPS, really, especially when it never had an official release date to begin with.

DNF...I honestly don't think it will ever be released. Just a gut feeling, although it *is* close to dinner time as I write this.

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#21 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-07-24 02:40:34
erictcheng@hotmail.com
I've no doubt HL2 will be dazzling as all get-out but I suspect Doom 3's lighting, if nothing else, will still allow the game to stand out.


How many times can people get scared/shocked by something popping out of the shadows/windows/doors/ceiling (a la Resident Evil) though?

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
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#22 by bago
2003-07-24 02:40:35
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Slip the schedule, polish it up some, wait for a decent hardware timeframe (post christmas when everyone gets their new gear), realizing that Single Player content takes a bit longer to produce.

#23 by Creole Ned
2003-07-24 02:43:03
Well, I agree, Eric, but I assume there will be more to the game than zombies crashing through walls. On the other hand, if it only has five hours of gameplay, maybe that will be enough.

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#24 by Hugin
2003-07-24 02:48:16
lmccain@nber.org
I'm glad they're pushing it back, if they're pushing it back to make the SP gameplay better.  Eye candy is nice, but the movies I've seen of HL2 make me much more interested in it than DOOM3 so far.
#25 by CultureShock
2003-07-24 04:15:47
Doom III doesn't present anything new or non-obvious to someone well versed in the field, so I tend to think its early presentation to the world was simple attention seeking. Congratulations John, you got the attention. Now that's settled, Id's problem is producing content that lives up to the potential of the delivery mechanism.

From the very beginning it was clear to me they neither had the talent nor the vision to deliver this in the anticipated timeframe, and both popular opinion and the slipping schedule seem to confirm this. Personally, I think it's a little tight and they should've budgeted at least another year into the schedule.

What I think's more interesting than the obvious and crude comparison between Doom III and Half-Life 2, is the shift of attention in the underlying market from novelty to substance. This is a welcome change and will hopefully lead to more intellectually stimulating and generally more satisfying games.

Before the guys at Valve get too excited, nothing in the Half-Life 2 engine is a startling novelty either. That said, Source, Doom III, and the Judge Dredd engine, are beginning to focus content producers on areas they've previously ignored, meeting louder customer calls for change, and ensuring the industry moves forward rather than becoming a stagnant irrelevance.

"Save the attitude for someone who cares." - Judge Dredd
#26 by Desiato
2003-07-24 04:46:05
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
There is also the possiblity that id wouldn't have made their date this year anyway. Both games can share the arena, it doesn't have to be "one slaughters all" scenario that most fans would have you believe.

More games equals more fun for me, yay!
#27 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-07-24 05:01:03
More games equals more fun for me, yay!
and a smaller bank account. Not everyone can afford to buy any game they want anytime they want.

I kid cause I care.
#28 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-07-24 05:01:57
fuck! I'm sure I had put in quote tags!

I kid cause I care.
#29 by Leslie Nassar
2003-07-24 05:11:58
http://departmentofinternets.com
hi, i have no insight into Doom III's status, schedule, or goals.  i don't have access to the code or any design documents, i haven't been involved in any of the decision making meetings, and my experience with the level manipulation tools is nil.  that said, i feel i'm qualified to comment.  Doom III has obviously been delayed, as evidenced by Neale's assertion and Hugin's assumption.  and with id's long history of playing catchup with other developers and anti-setting the technology benchmark for generations of games, i think it's safe to say that the id offices are in pandemonium.

this just in;  the ever-reliable voices in my head have informed me that xian has resigned to join Valve.

"There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
#30 by Leslie Nassar
2003-07-24 05:14:02
http://departmentofinternets.com
How many times can people get scared/shocked by something popping out of the shadows/windows/doors/ceiling (a la Resident Evil) though?

not very many.  that's why nobody makes horror or suspense films anymore.  i challenge anybody here to name a horror movie made in the last 20 years.

"There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
#31 by bago
2003-07-24 05:16:23
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
28 days?

#32 by Warren Marshall
2003-07-24 05:21:47
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Sarchasm ahoy!

#33 by Hugin
2003-07-24 05:22:43
lmccain@nber.org
Er, leslie, where did I assume anything?  I just said, I'm all for a delay if the delay is to polish the SP gameplay as much as possible.
#34 by CheesyPoof
2003-07-24 06:14:56
I really hope I get to see the Uday and Qusay photos.  I hope the release more than just a head shot and see the whole body.  It'll be like those old gangster photos of the 30's.
#35 by m0nty
2003-07-24 06:28:13
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Any topic in which CultureShock attempts to be the most serious poster has something wrong with it.
#36 by bago
2003-07-24 07:28:07
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Hey now, I had my token on-topic post...

#37 by Warren Marshall
2003-07-24 08:02:44
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Speaking of on topic posts, I just watched World's Funniest Animals (hey, TiVo recorded it, not me) and the hosts name was "Matt Gallant".

Just passing that along ...

#38 by Neale
2003-07-24 08:38:12
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
It's occasionally shown over here. Is that the really annoying guy who smiles painfully through the entire show, which consists of utterly unfunny clips of animals?

You can't derail this train of idiocy, Shadarr. Not even with a big fat cow of logic on the tracks. - Bailey
#39 by Foodbunny
2003-07-24 09:09:10
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
Yes, he's also got a really crappy show on G4 where they try to get hot chicks to play arcade games.  Needless to say, not my boyfriend.

"Whore!" she shrieked. "Kingslayer's whore! Brotherfucker!" Her dead child dropped from her arms like a sack of flour as she pointed at Cersei. "Brotherfucker brotherfucker brotherfucker."
#40 by bago
2003-07-24 10:02:52
manga_Rando@hotmail.com

Needless to say, not my boyfriend.


Now there's a sentence you can tack onto almost any description of a person.

#41 by Desiato
2003-07-24 12:04:26
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Yeah, nobody wants to watch a show with boyfriends playing games. I'll take chicks any day.
#42 by UncleJeet
2003-07-24 15:11:42
Why do weird freakish people think that spelling something oddly makes a word somehow more important than using the traditionally accepted spelling?

  For some strange reason, I read some lunatic fringe feminist "article" on some website that I fortunately can't remember at the moment.  In it, the author constantly spelled women as womyn.

  I generally like "pagan" type folks, even though they're all mostly pretty misguided in what they think is "ancient teaching" but is really something some schmuck wrote down about ten minutes ago after watching a particularly interesting episode of In Search Of.  However, those that get under my skin are the ones who drone on and on about magic by spelling it magick or majick and probably a million other alternative spellings.  Does deciding to spell the word your own way somehow tap into unseen mystical forces?  Did the ancient pagan peoples of yore spell it this way, even before they spoke English?

  Why can't people just use words that exist, with the definitions that are there for them and spelled the way that everyone generally accepts?  Is this so much to ask?

  No, instead we have people using non-words like "conversate" and stupid non-words that have now more or less become real words like "irregardless."

  I guess this is really just a trivial thing, and it can easily be argued that language is what the people using it make it - but bleh.  The thing is, if you can display a firm understanding what you're speaking, then I might be more tolerant of you inventing new words.  It would seem, though, that most of the people currently abusing precious words have about as firm a grasp on them as Derek Smart has on people skills.

  If I had a badge, I would arrest any abusers on site for crimes against the language.  Of course, this would mean that most of the Rap community and our nation's President would be charged.  If convicted, the suspects would face a minimum 5 years in a maximum security English instruction program followed by at least 6-12 months of community service in the form of not speaking.

  Bleh.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#43 by Hugin
2003-07-24 15:21:48
lmccain@nber.org
Well, I generally agree with you, except that sort of thing serves as an engine for the growth and evolution of language.  Remember, the "proper" english you currently speak is chock full of words that were slang, mispellings, mistranslations, loans, neologisms, etc, decades or centuries ago. And some creations are just great fun, as long as you're speaking or writing informally.

 For what it's worth "womyn" is just a political statement to take "men" out of women, see also wimmin.  I think it's goofy, but it's not sloppiness or ignorance.
#44 by mrbloo
2003-07-24 15:28:18
mrbloo2000@hotmail.com
You keep using this word 'bleh'.  I looked it up on dictionary.com and I could not find a definition.  Is there another, more "official", word which can be used in its place?

I can't stand the variants of 'women' where they jump through linguistic loops just to avoid using the word man.  I remember one from the 90's where some group wanted to replace the phrase 'manual labour' with some other, less discriminatory phrase.  I guess these people think etymology is the study of insects.

#45 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-07-24 15:57:38
erictcheng@hotmail.com
For what it's worth "womyn" is just a political statement to take "men" out of women, see also wimmin.  I think it's goofy, but it's not sloppiness or ignorance.


Uh huh. Kind of ironic considering the default gender is female (hence why men have nipples). So if anything the word "men' is a derivative of the word "women."

I loved arguing with feminists back in university. My buddy's ex-girlfriend screamed at me when I opened the door for her (and for the rest of the group) when we entered a Subway, saying that she can open the door by herself. I replied back, "Fine. You can open it after I slam the door in your face then." Christ, women bitch that men don't give them respect and courtesy and yet when we show it we get yelled at. I open doors for everyone -- women, men, kids, and seniors.

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#46 by mrbloo
2003-07-24 16:01:14
mrbloo2000@hotmail.com
Jesus, anyone that can take offence at someone opening a door for them has problems.

#47 by zimbardo_ugly
2003-07-24 16:09:13
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
#45 by Eric T. Cheng

I open doors for everyone -- women, men, kids, and seniors.


That is so Dr. Q of you.

"...case 6 of the bad consequences from a wrong guess function references Seth|Violet when it should be Warren Spector in a dress (I think)." - G-Man
#48 by Warren Marshall
2003-07-24 16:11:05
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
The whole door opening thing is annoying in general though.  I'll often be walking into work and someone (man or woman, doesn't matter) will see me coming from up to 15 feet away and will open the door and hold it for me.  Then I get to feel really awkward walking the rest of the distance, passing through their graciously held open door, turning to them and thanking them for doing it.  It's a weird little social custom down here or something I guess.  It's weird thanking someone for doing something you were perfectly capable of doing for yourself and had no desire for their help.

Now, I'll hold the door open for someone if they are coming through the opposite way or if they are right behind me or whatever.  But if you're more than a few feet away, I'm not going to stand there with the door open, waiting for you.

#49 by mrbloo
2003-07-24 16:18:05
mrbloo2000@hotmail.com
If there's a key involved, I like it when people hold it open.  Yeah, it's a pain in the ass to speed up the last 15 feet, but I appreciate the effort.  I'll hold it open for people that are carrying a lot of shit, and tell them to take their time.

#50 by CheesyPoof
2003-07-24 16:19:07
I'm with Warren on that one.  Go, I can get the door.  Another thing that bothers me are drivers that slow down or stop to let you cross (like in the parking lot at work).  I'd rather everyone go and when the coast is clear I'll cross.
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