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Whee! More FMV games!
July 17th 2003, 16:11 CEST by G-Man

According to this article, CGI house DKP Effects has developed a new "standard" for DVD movies that they have dubbed DVDn since it is "DVD to the Nth degree". Basically DVDn allows movies to contain plot branches so that viewers can choose between them and create their own viewing experience. The first "movie" to use this standard has already been released.

While DVDs, with their ability to split movies up into tracks, have always had this ability (and in fact the standard was originally marketed to consumers with the promise that with DVD this sort of thing would be possible) very few movies have incorporated multiple viewing angles or alternate scenes for users to choose from.

While this technology has its place (concert or sporting event footage, and mostly porn) I pesonally don't think it will add much to the medium of film. And worst of all wide acceptance of this standard by viewers and film-makers means it is only a matter of time until thousands of Space Ace/Dragon's Lair clones are created, muddying our little gaming backwater in the same way the Deer Hunter craze did. But maybe I'm wrong and this is a great idea, feel free to try to convince me of it.
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#1 by Matt Perkins
2003-07-17 16:30:40
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
How does this crap get voted in?  What kind of voting are you monkey asses doing now?  Or is G-Man one of the few, the proud, the pushers...


As for the topic, this holds no interest at all, can't we have a warez topic or something.

Vampire roleplayers are almost always weirder than D&D players...and that's saying something.
#2 by Greg
2003-07-17 16:42:02
Blah, blah. Complain if the topic gets in too fast, complain if the topic sits in the bin for a week.

As to the actual topic, I think it has uses for just standard video, but it may not be all that useful for games. I disagree that we'll end up with lots of crappy clones, if only due to the scope of the effort involved. It is one thing to hack up a couple 3d models with bad textures; it is different to have to model and animate at 24fps or whatever.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#3 by Chunkstyle
2003-07-17 16:45:19
You could probably use it to make entertaining choose-your-own-adventure-style kids games.  And I liked Space Ace / Dragons Lair.

There's joy in repetition.
#4 by Desiato
2003-07-17 16:50:43
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
I'd like a submission on complaining.

Or recursive complaining about complaining topics.

Who am I kidding, it'll all devolve into warez anyway.
#5 by yotsuya
2003-07-17 16:55:13
If they're cool, people will buy. If not, they won't. EOD.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#6 by Desiato
2003-07-17 17:01:05
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
And don't forget, can you warez it?
#7 by LPMiller
2003-07-17 17:06:06
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
How does this crap get voted in?  What kind of voting are you monkey asses doing now?  Or is G-Man one of the few, the proud, the pushers...


As for the topic, this holds no interest at all, can't we have a warez topic or something.


So, Scientology is ok, you'd much rather spend your quality-saving-the-world time slamming on topics you don't like. 'K.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#8 by Matt Perkins
2003-07-17 17:09:07
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Gosh, complain a little about a lousy topic and people get cranky.  Maybe this can be a everyone get cranky on Matt topic... oh wait, someone's got one of those running.

Vampire roleplayers are almost always weirder than D&D players...and that's saying something.
#9 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-07-17 17:12:51
I'm with Matt, what's the point of the bin if people are just going to push topics in anyway, even topics like this that aren't even interesting.

I find being fairly ambivalent about the suffering of others makes me the greatest humanitarian of all.
  --Bailey
#10 by Greg
2003-07-17 17:13:30
Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#11 by jjz
2003-07-17 17:17:54
The first one should have been "The Cave of Time."
#12 by CheesyPoof
2003-07-17 17:18:27
Don't think of this crap as a game, but a video version of a CYOA book.  People here have spooged over how cool the CYOA books were.  Think of how the kids today will like a CYOA movie.  Trying to do this with the current DVD format is possible (I think), but would be frustrating.  I can't see this being more than a niche though.
#13 by Warren Marshall
2003-07-17 17:18:51
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
The idea seems OK to me.  What's wrong with branching movies, exactly?  That sounds like it could be really cool if done properly.

Yes, it will mainly become the domain of porn ("select the next position!"), but it's interesting nonetheless ...

#14 by Chunkstyle
2003-07-17 17:25:14
This could be good for anime games, too.  Better quality tentacle raping.

There's joy in repetition.
#15 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-07-17 17:25:37
Yes, it will mainly become the domain of porn ("select the next position!"), but it's interesting nonetheless ...

I'm not up on the porn DVD's but I'm sure this has already been done in that medium.

I find being fairly ambivalent about the suffering of others makes me the greatest humanitarian of all.
  --Bailey
#16 by Xero
2003-07-17 17:29:28
http://novakometa.blogspot.com/
#14 Chunkstyle
This could be good for anime games, too.  Better quality tentacle raping.


I guess you'd get to choose Tentacle access points? Please choose an orifice from the selections provided either a (tastes like peaches), b (merovingian's choice) or c (the back of a volkswagon).

Intelligence is the flower of discrimination. There are many examples of the flower blooming but not bearing fruit.   Nabeshima Naoshige
#17 by Warren Marshall
2003-07-17 17:37:02
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
I'm not up on the porn DVD's but I'm sure this has already been done in that medium.

But I believe, as was mentioned previously, it's sort of a hack in the current medium.  And there is no doubt that porn will overtake this new method, old news or not.

#18 by Bailey
2003-07-17 18:16:57
It's sort of unlikely porn would take this route, as it would take planning and thought. Most porn films are filmed in 1-2 days, and the days of even the barest plots are long past and forgotten. Simply put, like everything else in the world, there are fads in porn, and story-heavy multiple choice questions are the last thing you want to worry about when you're reaching for the kleenex.

As for interactive movies in the less offensive realm of fantasy, I don't see it taking off. There's a reason most games stick with the Quake-like storyline, the kids don't care.

And now, back to the business of loathing.
#19 by Xero
2003-07-17 18:22:44
http://novakometa.blogspot.com/
#18 Bailey
It's sort of unlikely porn would take this route, as it would take planning and thought. Most porn films are filmed in 1-2 days, and the days of even the barest plots are long past and forgotten. Simply put, like everything else in the world, there are fads in porn, and story-heavy multiple choice questions are the last thing you want to worry about when you're reaching for the kleenex.

As for interactive movies in the less offensive realm of fantasy, I don't see it taking off. There's a reason most games stick with the Quake-like storyline, the kids don't care.


That may be the case in men's porn, but porn marketed specifically to women depends a lot more on story and character development.

Intelligence is the flower of discrimination. There are many examples of the flower blooming but not bearing fruit.   Nabeshima Naoshige
#20 by Ergo
2003-07-17 18:30:58
And we all know how big that niche is.

#21 by Bailey
2003-07-17 18:31:33
Eh! Eh! Nudge nudge! Wink!

And now, back to the business of loathing.
#22 by Xero
2003-07-17 19:01:36
http://novakometa.blogspot.com/
#20 Ergo
And we all know how big that niche is.


Actually you'd be suprised, its a huge and varied market, ranging from hetero porn,  same sex porn (many straight women I know like lesbian porn), through to light hetero & same sex s&m.

Intelligence is the flower of discrimination. There are many examples of the flower blooming but not bearing fruit.   Nabeshima Naoshige
#23 by Warren Marshall
2003-07-17 19:03:25
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Simply put, like everything else in the world, there are fads in porn, and story-heavy multiple choice questions are the last thing you want to worry about when you're reaching for the kleenex.

I'm thinking less of driving the story and more of driving the action.  Much like the 'Virtual < insert pornstars name here>' DVDs that came out.

#24 by jjohnsen
2003-07-17 19:21:48
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Like choose one path and it is all anal, choose another and its facial?

I know my daughter would love a Dora the Explorer dvd that let her choose whether Dora went to see her friend boots, or went to her Grandmas house.  Like a few people above said, it would make a good update for CYOA books.  A little harder to put your finger in the page to make sure you made the right choice, but still.
#25 by Your Friend
2003-07-17 19:26:07
I agree that this topic isn't very interesting.

An obscure, mostly marketing-speak, technology created by an obscure company that will never really be used by anyone except maybe the porn industry....

If I wanted interactive entertainment, I'd play a game, not a choose-your-own-adventure DVD.

"Take Two needs to STFU imo." - G30rg3 Br0uzz4rd
#26 by G-Man
2003-07-17 19:42:14
Matt Perkins in #1 said:
How does this crap get voted in?  What kind of voting are you monkey asses doing now?  Or is G-Man one of the few, the proud, the pushers...
Hey I just write them, what you do with them is your business.

CheesyPoof in #12 said:
Don't think of this crap as a game, but a video version of a CYOA book.  People here have spooged over how cool the CYOA books were.  Think of how the kids today will like a CYOA movie.
But CYOA style movies have been done already (crappy VCR enabled boardgames where you are instructed to fast-forward or rewind to certain parts of the tape based on your choices, e.g. Clue, Doorways to Adventure, Doorways to Horror, etc., FMV adventure games like Phantasmagoria, Night Trap, etc., and the laserdisc and hologram games like Space Ace, Dragon's Lair, Time Traveler, etc.) And they all sucked horribly. If you think otherwise you are living in nostalgia-land.
#27 by G-Man
2003-07-17 19:46:14
jjohnsen in #24 said:
I know my daughter would love a Dora the Explorer dvd that let her choose whether Dora went to see her friend boots, or went to her Grandmas house.
Your Friend in #25 said:
If I wanted interactive entertainment, I'd play a game, not a choose-your-own-adventure DVD.
Exactly my point. It isn't that good games (or movies) couldn't be made in this medium. It's just why not just make a REAL game without the constraint of limited interactivity and solely FMV visuals?
#28 by Your Friend
2003-07-17 19:46:54
The reason CYOA books worked is that you could patch up the bad writing with your own imagination.

With a movie it won't be the same. You'll be watching shitty actors in a movie with shitty dialog and shitty special effects and not enough room for your imagination to do the patching.

Sounds like a big LOSE.

"Take Two needs to STFU imo." - G30rg3 Br0uzz4rd
#29 by Shadarr
2003-07-17 19:50:23
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I could see it working in porn that has no plot, the same way they have "interactive" porn on the internet.  Not so much a CYOA plot-choice type thing, just a "what do you want me to do now, master?" fantasy thing.  It would still be a niche market, though, just like the interactive porn is a tiny percentage of all the porn on the net.

As far as actual CYOA, it might take off and it might not.  I remember the books, but I wasn't real into them even then.  And in order for the movies to be a success they would need a virtual "finger on the previous page", so's today's kids can cheat the same way I did as a lad.
#30 by jjz
2003-07-17 20:10:49
Edward Packard was the man.
#31 by Bailey
2003-07-17 20:13:48
The whole Virtual Porn Star series was just the cameraman getting laid while the girl talks to the lens using decidedly unsexy pillow talk. They still do that now, they just don't use it as a mainstay for the theme. Examples being series like the decidedly mind-scarring Anabolic Initiations.

And now, back to the business of loathing.
#32 by Ergo
2003-07-17 20:16:00
Your porn knowledge frightens and intrigues me.

#33 by Foodbunny
2003-07-17 20:18:17
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
The whole "Women don't like porn" thing is a self-feeding problem.  When you walk into the porn section of the local video rental and all you see is "Fuck Pigs 8!", that's going to be a turn off to the majority of women.  But that doesn't mean we don't like to see fucking, the incredible popularity of yaoi and shounen ai in Japan as well as the overwhelming amount of erotic written by women attests to that.  But hey, wow, had this discussion about games too.  Blah blah not the target market and apparently never will be, so not allowed to have an opinion.

"Whore!" she shrieked. "Kingslayer's whore! Brotherfucker!" Her dead child dropped from her arms like a sack of flour as she pointed at Cersei. "Brotherfucker brotherfucker brotherfucker."
#34 by Warren Marshall
2003-07-17 20:21:09
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Blah blah not the target market and apparently never will be, so not allowed to have an opinion.

You and Matt are SUCH a good match.

#35 by Your Friend
2003-07-17 20:23:22

so not allowed to have an opinion.


Now you're getting it.

How is my pie coming along?

"Take Two needs to STFU imo." - G30rg3 Br0uzz4rd
#36 by Shadarr
2003-07-17 20:24:17
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
The cameraman doesn't take part in Anabolic Initiations, at least none of the ones I've seen.  I know what you mean, though, and I thought there was something more interactive out there.  I never pay for porn, so the only times I've seen it was what I think was a vidcap of someone else running through the various choices.  There was a menu in the top corner with various choices on them.  It could've been fake from the start, though.
#37 by Foodbunny
2003-07-17 20:25:40
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
Nice to see that you don't go out of your way to mention Matt in a completely non-sequitor fashion there, Warren.

"Whore!" she shrieked. "Kingslayer's whore! Brotherfucker!" Her dead child dropped from her arms like a sack of flour as she pointed at Cersei. "Brotherfucker brotherfucker brotherfucker."
#38 by G-Man
2003-07-17 20:26:21
Women not getting the porn they deserve isn't really high on my list of injustices that need righting. I'll just let the market take care of that one.
#39 by Bailey
2003-07-17 20:29:58
Ergo

Your porn knowledge frightens and intrigues me.

It's purely scientific research, I assure you.

Shadarr

Are you sure? I'm thinking it was just because they were a little short of male actors (or just plain cheap), but I may be confusing it with another series. In any case, it's certainly not rare for the camera guy to get his pipes cleaned while he's on the job.

And now, back to the business of loathing.
#40 by Matt Perkins
2003-07-17 20:30:00
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I'd say I'm not the target market for porn either.  I don't like most porn.  A simple fuck fest is boring.  I like story with my sex.  But apparently, that's just me.

Vampire roleplayers are almost always weirder than D&D players...and that's saying something.
#41 by Shadarr
2003-07-17 20:30:04
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Foody,

I don't think it's a male-female divide, I think it's just a case of the video stores serving the market that supports them.  That happens to be the ultra-hardcore, implants and long nails and no discernible plot genre.  There is lots of other porn out there, it just doesn't make it to the video store.  That's why god invented the internet.
#42 by BobJustBob
2003-07-17 20:31:50
If they're cool, people will buy. If not, they won't. EOD.


Poor naive yotsuya. When were commercial success and quality ever related?

Voices tell me I'm the shit.
<Whisp> BJB is a troll. <Whisp> Troll I say!
#43 by Foodbunny
2003-07-17 20:32:10
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
Unfortunately, the cost of video production keeps female porn mostly written erotica or poorly drawn scribbles.  The occasional site of scans from beekcake mags targeted to gay men pops up too, but that's about it.

"Whore!" she shrieked. "Kingslayer's whore! Brotherfucker!" Her dead child dropped from her arms like a sack of flour as she pointed at Cersei. "Brotherfucker brotherfucker brotherfucker."
#44 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-07-17 20:32:31
Are you sure you're not a woman Matt?

I find being fairly ambivalent about the suffering of others makes me the greatest humanitarian of all.
  --Bailey
#45 by Bailey
2003-07-17 20:33:18
Foody

But that doesn't mean we don't like to see fucking, the incredible popularity of yaoi and shounen ai in Japan as well as the overwhelming amount of erotic written by women attests to that.  But hey, wow, had this discussion about games too.

Considering that a fair cross-section of the stars of yaoi are teenage males, maybe it's best if it stays in the realms of manga and fanfiction format.

And now, back to the business of loathing.
#46 by Matt Perkins
2003-07-17 20:33:42
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Trunk

Well, kinda sure...

Vampire roleplayers are almost always weirder than D&D players...and that's saying something.
#47 by Shadarr
2003-07-17 20:35:48
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Bailey,

Pretty sure.  It was definitely an initiation video series, and I think it was Anabolic.  I don't think I've seen any professional-grade (as opposed to internet-only) porn that had the cameraman involved in more than just groping or directing.
#48 by Xero
2003-07-17 20:36:16
http://novakometa.blogspot.com/
When I was a kid in the 70's porn had plotlines granted it was along the lines of "oh I can't pay the repair bill, can we work it off in trade?".

I always wondered just how much plot you could get away with in porn, imagine a 10 million dollar well written, overproduced porn flick, with the same beats as an action movie replacing the action with sex.

Granted with a story based sex romp you'd be going for a mostly female audience or couples, but who says the American viewing audience isn't ready for an X rated summer blockbuster? : )

Intelligence is the flower of discrimination. There are many examples of the flower blooming but not bearing fruit.   Nabeshima Naoshige
#49 by CheesyPoof
2003-07-17 20:36:28
But CYOA style movies have been done already [snip] And they all sucked horribly. If you think otherwise you are living in nostalgia-land.

I never said I liked CYOA stuff, just that it was one practical application of this.  I never knew there was VCR stuff for that, but of course that shit is going to suck if you have to FF and REW.  Random access media makes this much less painful.

But hey, wow, had this discussion about games too.  Blah blah not the target market and apparently never will be, so not allowed to have an opinion.

Don't be annoyed, I don't think the comment was that you can't have an opinion, but that your interests are not typical for women.  Maybe that's the same thing to you, but I don't see it that way.

I already thought women had porn, but it was called Romance Novels.
#50 by Foodbunny
2003-07-17 20:38:43
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
Bailey, it's not like there's a noticable lack of HOT HOT BARELY LEGAL porn out there already.

"Whore!" she shrieked. "Kingslayer's whore! Brotherfucker!" Her dead child dropped from her arms like a sack of flour as she pointed at Cersei. "Brotherfucker brotherfucker brotherfucker."
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