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T O P I C
The MMORPG I Want to Play
June 3rd 2003, 17:55 CEST by Caryn

This is the MMORPG I want to play:

Imagine a world, maybe a grungy sci-fi world since I'm partial to those for my role-playing games, and in this world is one of many cities, and in this city is one of many bars. I go into this bar and order a beer from the AI bartender, and I sit down alone at a table in the corner and wait. A player comes in and talks to the bartender, who tells him, "if you're lookin' for work, talk to Riley over there." (I'm Riley.) "Word of advice: he's less of a dick if you buy him a beer." (Players in almost every MMORPG available can talk to and buy drinks and food from NPCs.)

The player comes over to me, sans beer. I look at him and decide to play it out a bit. He says, "I'm looking for work."

"Yeah? And I'm looking for a beer. Maybe we can help each other out."

He goes and buys the beer from the bartender, brings it over and gives it to me. (Players can trade almost anything in current MMORPGs.) He sits down. (Players in Star Wars Galaxies can sit on furniture.)

"Yeah, I've got some work," I say. (My character scratches his nose or his ass, something you can do in many current MMORPGs.) "A few days ago I was in here playing a friendly game of poker with a guy named Ortha Pios. When I picked up a straight flush, I was pretty much out of credits so I put my Windchaser M23 rifle on the table. You got any idea how much these babies are worth? A lot, because they're hard to come by. Anyway, long story short, Pios somehow beats my straight flush with four Aces, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't dealt that hand, you know what I'm sayin'? So I want my rifle back. He's tough in a bar with his posse around him, but catch him alone and he's an easy shot. I'll pay you 1000 credits to take him out, get my rifle, and bring it back to me here. If I'm not here, you store it and send me an email letting me know you have it, and we'll arrange to meet." (SWG allows players to email each other in-game.)

Maybe the player accepts the mission and asks where he can find the guy, who just happens to be a friend of mine in on the role-playing. I tell him where I think my "enemy" is, the player goes off on the mission. It might be hard for him to find him -- after all, we're not AI, and we'll probably move around a bit. But with a few pre-defined rules my friend and I create ahead of time, we don't make it impossible. The player finds my friend, takes him out, and as expected, my friend is carrying a particular weapon on him that's lootable. The player brings it back to me at the bar and I give him his 1000 credits, and the game rewards me somehow for creating game content for other players.

That long and drawn-out description is really just an example of something I'd like to be able to do in an MMORPG, one in which combat isn't the sole means of advancing your character or participating in the game world, AND which allows players to play a role in shaping the environment and player experiences. Other examples would be playing an entertainer-style character and setting up performances to entertain other players and be rewarded with experience or something for doing so. The main thing I'm interested in, though, is the ability to create role-playing experiences other players can participate in and have them become a part of the game world. Like being a DM on a much smaller scale. In my bar example, developers could create AI for people like bartenders that allow interested players like myself to "register" as a mission originator. I talk to the Bartender and use a keyword that triggers him into knowing I'm in the bar and that he can tell players about me. When I leave the bar, I do the same thing so he doesn't do that.

Most of the rest of the work would be done by me, except that it would be great if the developers could work it so that players were rewarded for doing these things. And I don't mean rewarded with things like titles such as WizardHelper or something. I mean actual game rewards, the point of playing the game in the first place. The experience I'm looking for is not one in which the people who do these things are a level removed from the players, sitting somewhere between the Customer Support people and the Helpers. They should just be players who are simply playing the game along an alternate route.

There are obvious potential problems, and the big one is that a lot of players will enjoy screwing up the role-playing experience and won't participate in the way you want them to. But would enough people enjoy it to make it worthwhile to everyone? What do you think? Possible? Impossible? A pipe dream? A stupid idea?
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#1 by LoneStar
2003-06-03 17:55:33
cwcraig64@hotmail.com
Damn, it made it!

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one
#2 by Charles
2003-06-03 18:02:35
www.bluh.org
I really like the idea, but I'd wonder how useful it would be in practice.  Most players don't have an original bone in their body (which is highlighted by the names they choose).  I'm afraid of what putrid crap would come out of a system like this.  Plus, it's so amazingly open to abuse.  Get a few players together, and farm XP off of eachother.  Not only that, but how would you scale XP against the created quests automatically?  I can't see that working at all.

The situation I *do* see this kind of system working in, would be one without skills or xp.  A game that relies solely on materialism and money to further your character.  Would be hard to break that situation.  Players would have to shell out their own cash for the quests, so farming wouldn't work.  There'd be no skills to improve by doing this over and over again.

On the other hand, doing it this way essentially takes the entire system out, and it becomes something not governed by the game at all, but by the player's imagination.

Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards.  --UncleJeet
#3 by Bailey
2003-06-03 18:15:26
Caryn already knows my feelings on the topic, so I'll just sit here quietly until someone says something stupid.

Rowr.
#4 by Wudi
2003-06-03 18:18:28
Does this MMORPG have girls in panties? Not fake bikini panties like they wear at E3!

heh

Zep--

I want to be a part of the club! Accept me!

Bubble Blast Installer!
#5 by Your Friend
2003-06-03 18:22:10

Caryn already knows my feelings on the topic, so I'll just sit here quietly until someone says something stupid.


...


Does this MMORPG have girls in panties? Not fake bikini panties like they wear at E3!


Didn't take long.

I was trendy before it was trendy.
#6 by CheesyPoof
2003-06-03 18:23:40
Caryn already knows my feelings on the topic, so I'll just sit here quietly until someone says something stupid.

Yea, but we don't know your feelings so let the bile spew.  And it looks like you have a customer already.
#7 by Bailey
2003-06-03 18:25:49
YF

I have spooky precognition skills when it comes to people saying something stupid.

Rowr.
#8 by Your Friend
2003-06-03 18:26:25
Anyway, to post on-topic, I think this is a fine idea.  

However, Charles brings up a lot of good points about how difficult it would be to make this work given most MMORPGs are functionally retarded.  Most seem less interested in actually playing the game than in just getting levels fast.  

Also, implementing something like this in a non-superficial way would be very, very difficult.  The whole combat treadmill thing is much simpler and much more of a known quantity.

I was trendy before it was trendy.
#9 by Your Friend
2003-06-03 18:27:20
Er, I meant "given most MMORPG players are functionally retarded", but either way works.

I was trendy before it was trendy.
#10 by Matt Perkins
2003-06-03 18:29:54
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I'm going to have to agree with Charles on this issue.  Any system you let the players control will be exploited.  Hell, players do it all the time now with systems they don't have full control over.

Before you look at whether this would be fun or not, or make the game better, you have to look at whether this will be exploited.  Thems the rules in any online only game.

"There are two things I've observed about Warhammer during my trips to the comic shop. A) The players send off strong pheremonal signals to mark their territory and warn off rival M:TG alpha males....." - Bailey
#11 by Bailey
2003-06-03 18:30:14
The reason players aren't as interested in the game as leveling is that besides combat, the games are often quite dry, dull, and broken. Crafting and trades only go so far, roleplaying is for fruits, and all that leaves is combat. Until you give players a real ability to really affect the world they play in, they'll never bother to worry about anything other than becoming the biggest bad.

Rowr.
#12 by Caryn
2003-06-03 18:31:20
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
#8 Your Friend
Most seem less interested in actually playing the game than in just getting levels fast.


That of course is the main barrier to what I would like to see. And I've never understood that mentality among people playing MMORPGs. Yes, I know that a lot of gamers in general are seen as complete idiots. I always used to think that the type of player drawn to MMORPGs were the type who probably have played pen and paper RPGs, and what do those people like to do? Roleplay, in a serious way. Unfortunately, the only real gameplay among many MMORPGs is the act of leveling -- that is the game.

So what if that was taken out? What if there were no numeric levels? I think SWG is going for this style of advancement. Still, you have to level somehow in an RPG or it wouldn't be an RPG.

SNIKT!
#13 by Ashiran
2003-06-03 18:33:53
#0
With the current design MMORPGs have this will NEVER work. If you were to implement such a system only a small number of the playercreated quests would be valid. The rest would be either broken somehow or used as some kind of grieftrap.

I agree on the AI part however. NPCs have to become much smarter to make a world more immersive and fun. More on this later.

#2 by Charles
On the other hand, doing it this way essentially takes the entire system out, and it becomes something not governed by the game at all, but by the player's imagination.

In which case you are better of playing one of those live role playing events.

On the part of the xp system I agree though. I wish a developer got some brains and got rid of that.
Beat 10 critters to death and the number behind your name goes up. Also you gain some new spells/skills out of thin air upon clubbing the tenth critter with your rusty nail stick. Developers talk about "immersivenes" while leaving things in like having the Giant Spider drop a healing potion, a broadsword and a pink maiden's dress. Guess what, that doesn't make sense AT ALL. Same thing for previously mentioned xp system.

Now it would be in best PlanetCrap fashion to just leave it at this and not offer up some alternative at all. I put some thought into this subject for some time now however and come up with a possible alternative for the "club creatures, get xp, advance level, get better skills to club creatures, club bigger creatures, get xp, etc...." system that seems to be all there is at the moment.

I will post it in a moment to prevent this post from gaining skip length.

Iran and N.Korea may be the axis of evil. America is the engine that makes it spin.
#14 by Marsh Davies
2003-06-03 18:35:22
www.verbalchilli.com
Yay, it made it!

A few days ago, I was pondering how to make MMOGs remotely appealing to those without a stat fetish, and it seems to me that the only way to do this is to inject the kind of personalised singleplayer element back in to the multiplayer world. This has been attempted with large story-archs imposed on the game-world, but, to be honest, it just doesn't deal with the individual in any way I find remotely titillating. Caryn's suggestion would be one way of doing just this. I'm not really sure it's the logistics of the game (XP, leveling blah de blah) that are holding this back. After all, stats aren't essential to roleplaying anyway.

I get the feeling that the problem lies in the Massive part of Massively Multiplayer Online Games. There are just too many people in the world demanding personal attention. I'm wondering if there would be some way to cross-breed cooperative play with the kind of persistent world you find in a MMOG. By which I mean: there are very few players per world (though maybe many worlds running parallel); making each adventurer seem somehow far more important and allowing for more elaborate and player-centric storylines. I'm still trying to hammer out how this would work, if it would at all. I know there are obvious technical restrictions at the moment of running lots of persistent worlds simultaneously... but eventually...

Lonestar - Shut yo blunt-hole foo! This is one of the most interesting discussion topics to come around in a while.

#15 by Foodbunny
2003-06-03 18:36:03
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
I disagree that leveling is required for something to be an RPG.  Oh sure, it's more like interactive fiction when you take out the leveling, but it works.  

It seems to me that you're defined by how far you've gotten in your skills in SWG, which is practically the same thing as being defined by your level.  Also, I like your idea and it's something I'd like to see implemented in a game some time.

Happiness is a warm giant turtle.
#16 by mgns
2003-06-03 18:37:12
Speaking of MMORPGs, I hope Uru turns out great.

At night on them banks I'd lie awake
And pull her close just to feel each breath she'd take
#17 by Charles
2003-06-03 18:37:47
www.bluh.org
So what if that was taken out? What if there were no numeric levels? I think SWG is going for this style of advancement. Still, you have to level somehow in an RPG or it wouldn't be an RPG.


This all goes back to the fact that RPG is a misnomer.

Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards.  --UncleJeet
#18 by Marsh Davies
2003-06-03 18:39:10
www.verbalchilli.com
Hah! I sliced your post in twain, Ashiran! If only I could do the same to you in Legend of the Neuter Space Bear without getting my ass handed back to me.

#19 by Charles
2003-06-03 18:41:29
www.bluh.org
I think it would be perfectly plausible to take leveling and skill ladders out of the games completely.  Or at least, in the traditional way.  I think the focus should be entirely on money and materialism.  After all, stuff is mainly the focus in other MMORPGs, except that the level ladder is a limiting factor.

The biggest problem I have with MMORPGs right now is that I can't play with people, because I don't have much time anymore, and people I'd normally play with leave me behind in levels, really really fast.  And they are all geared so that radical level differences can't play together.

Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards.  --UncleJeet
#20 by Caryn
2003-06-03 18:41:30
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
#15 Foodbunny
I disagree that leveling is required for something to be an RPG.  Oh sure, it's more like interactive fiction when you take out the leveling, but it works.


I would love to see an experiment happen and see someone create an MMORPG with zero leveling. There's no stats to raise. The enjoyment of the game is instead dependent on creating mini-storylines with the other players and your own quests. I'd be curious to see if it worked and if anyone actually enjoyed playing that.

SNIKT!
#21 by Foodbunny
2003-06-03 18:43:20
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
Damned NDAs.  There! has some of what you want.  Obviously without the killing people aspect.

Happiness is a warm giant turtle.
#22 by Caryn
2003-06-03 18:43:44
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
#19 Charles
I think it would be perfectly plausible to take leveling and skill ladders out of the games completely.  Or at least, in the traditional way.  I think the focus should be entirely on money and materialism.  After all, stuff is mainly the focus in other MMORPGs, except that the level ladder is a limiting factor.


Except that money would become the new stat -- instead of killing for experience points, you're killing for cash.

Maybe RPG isn't a misnomer so much as the fact that it's become wrongly synonymous with the idea of stat-based advancement because that's what the old pen and paper games were generally baesd on. "Role-playing game" itself, though, is a stat-free term.

SNIKT!
#23 by Charles
2003-06-03 18:48:28
www.bluh.org
Except that money would become the new stat -- instead of killing for experience points, you're killing for cash.


Exactly!  But now, you aren't limited by how much time you play, especially if you have friends that already play lots.  I'd take it a step further though, and make the equipment not vary so much in terms of power.  

Planetside isn't an MMORPG, but the system they've come up with is pretty good.  Gaining battleranks doesn't affect your power, it just allows you to do more stuff.  I can start a new character, grab some basic stuff, and fight effectively next to someone who's been playing since day one.  

I think the focus in MMORPGs should be put more on looks and appearances than actual power differences.

Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards.  --UncleJeet
#24 by CheesyPoof
2003-06-03 18:49:58
Maybe RPG isn't a misnomer so much as the fact that it's become wrongly synonymous with the idea of stat-based advancement because that's what the old pen and paper games were generally baesd on. "Role-playing game" itself, though, is a stat-free term.

Then isn't damn near every game outhere an RPg, just with varying amounts of control, i.e. A Space Marine badass in Q2 vs. a character in Morrowind.

The basic problem that I see with the MMORPG in #0 is that it relys on people role playing.  Good luck getting people to do that, and I'm not just talking about the griefers, but regular folks just don't get into character.
#25 by CheesyPoof
2003-06-03 18:51:19
Throw one of these, '?', at the end of my first sentance, OK.
#26 by Caryn
2003-06-03 18:52:04
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
#24 CheesyPoof
The basic problem that I see with the MMORPG in #0 is that it relys on people role playing.  Good luck getting people to do that, and I'm not just talking about the griefers, but regular folks just don't get into character.


I guess that really then my theoretical game would just only appeal to those who wanted do this, and it would be designed in such a way that if you weren't interested in roleplaying it, you wouldn't bother to play the game. It would be a niche game, and there's really nothing wrong with that.

SNIKT!
#27 by Ashiran
2003-06-03 19:27:00
Kicking out the standard xp system has lots of advantages:
- no powerlevelling
- no huge differences between players
- no critterbeating treadmill
- no being locked with a certain set of skills until you level up

[ideaman]
First thing: NO GOING OUT AND KILLING AS MAIN OBJECTIVE! It seems that all current RPGs are based
around killing stuff. Albeit for xp or for items or for cash.


If you remove the xp system you can replace it with a skills only system. And how good you are in
those skills depends how often you use them. I assume they will do something similar in SWG.
So if you primarily use Flanged Mace to beat up stuff you gain skill in Blunt Weapons. Over time
your damage and attack rating will increase until it softcaps.
You can do something similar for all skills in theory. This means you can abolish classes as
they are in their current form as well. A class is just a means to indicate what group/faction you
belong too. Not a box which contains your special set of skills and stats.

Second thing: You still need something for people to do and to give them a sense of advancement.
People want status. It's as simple as that. You know why people hack themselves uberitems? Because
having good items == status. Being a high level == status. Owning the biggest castle == status.
So how do we achieve this goal for ingame status?

1) Add an ingame system that spreads news of notable acts and events.
When you go to an Inn there should be a horde of NPCs there discussing how BlackHeart the MooCow slayed the Wacky Wooden Windmill in Dutchland. Or how Guild XXX burned the Red Shoe City to the ground because they refused to pimp their warez.

I'm still puzzled why stuff like this isn't in MMOGs already and you have to use outside forums. Same goes for guild workings and communications btw.

2) People should be able to display their stuff.
In Morrowind a lot of people (myself included) were flexing their inner packrat. While this was caused by the poorness of available merchants it did promote a collection habit. After a week of playing my house was stacked with all kinds of items I dragged home. And looking online I saw ample screenshots of people who did the same thing. Which leads us back to the displaying of your stuff. People like to do that.

3) Control that resource
You need something which people (guilds) can control and it gives them a benefit. It's my understanding that Shadowbane promised a feature like this but that will probably be added 2 months before DNF is released.

So suppose there is a specific place where gargoyles live. When killed they yield a nice skin that can be used to make normal shields much stronger. So what you as a guild do is simple. You build an outpost nearby, fence the area off and hire NPC guards to patrol it. This also gives thieves something to do that actually is in line with their profession.

Another idea would be to build a stable near your city and catch some wild horses which you then use to breed.

4) Advanced questing
As it stands now quests are basically hardcoded. A dynamic quest system (as used in Daggerfall) would be far superior and rewarding.
[/ideaman]

Combine all this with some dynamic AI and you are in buisness for the next generation of MMORPGs.

*standard disclaimer that you people don't understand my vision etc. etc.*

Iran and N.Korea may be the axis of evil. America is the engine that makes it spin.
#28 by Darkseid-D
2003-06-03 19:47:20
rogerboal@hotmail.com
http://www.petoffice.co.jp/catprin/english/

I am faintly disturbed.

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#29 by Duality
2003-06-03 19:47:43
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
I would play your game, Caryn, with the rest of Planetcrap.  But not, say, the rest of the world.

Except that money would become the new stat -- instead of killing for experience points, you're killing for cash.

However, unlike XP, cash is a finite virtual resource.  People would lose the money they make when they buy their new gear (that effectively powers them up).

With that would also come the need for an economy so that not everybody can get that +12 Ultimate Sword of Whatever.  A few days ago, some of us were talking about how crafting in MMORPGs isn't a unique.  Every crafter in a game makes the same junk.  But what if it was possible to have enough options in crafting to allow for thousands of relatively unique choices?  Things such as style, color, added magical abilities (that could also have drawbacks like less durability), etc. would all help for a stable and competitive economy in which the world's personal successes are measured.

I'd risk going as far as saying the reason MMORPGs suck is because they don't reflect the constants of the real world nearly well enough.

Just kinda ... shimmy and shake!
#30 by Trunks
2003-06-03 19:51:42
For those who aren't aware, Jeet's in the Galalxies beta and is actually ENJOYING PLAYING A MMO.  I'm still in shock days later.

Speaking of which, some Galaxies stories from the beta.  NDA approved of course.

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller
#31 by Ashiran
2003-06-03 19:52:30
I'd risk going as far as saying the reason MMORPGs suck is because they don't reflect the constants of the real world nearly well enough.

I agree.

Iran and N.Korea may be the axis of evil. America is the engine that makes it spin.
#32 by Charles
2003-06-03 19:57:20
www.bluh.org
If you remove the xp system you can replace it with a skills only system.


As soon as you do that, you are just hiding the level ladder.  It's still there.

Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards.  --UncleJeet
#33 by Butt Sauce
2003-06-03 20:00:08
I'll agree with you all on this one point. I am a penis.
#34 by Duality
2003-06-03 20:05:10
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
A penis in butt sauce?

Just kinda ... shimmy and shake!
#35 by Ashiran
2003-06-03 20:05:56
As soon as you do that, you are just hiding the level ladder.  It's still there.

Not if you set it up in such a way that skills you don't use anymore start falling back to their startingpoint. Or when you set mirrored skills like say, casting a lot of Life magic spells will severly deteriorate your skill in Death magic.

Not only does this reflect the real world better but you don't have to create a whole new character if you spend some time fooling around with a skill you end up not liking. It's also impossible for anyone to maintain a large number of skills at uber level which prevents the "high lvl player can beat 50 low lvl players". A group of 10 or more players should always be able to take on one other player regardless of skills. This excludes uber items though. But if you have uber items we get back to the status part I mentioned.

So in summary yes it's a form of levelling but the whole system is secondary to the actual goal and not a goal in itself.

Iran and N.Korea may be the axis of evil. America is the engine that makes it spin.
#36 by CheesyPoof
2003-06-03 20:06:07
I guess that really then my theoretical game would just only appeal to those who wanted do this, and it would be designed in such a way that if you weren't interested in roleplaying it, you wouldn't bother to play the game. It would be a niche game, and there's really nothing wrong with that.

It does sound interesting, I didn't mean to say it was crap, but I wonder if it could even survive as a niche product.  I never played a MUD, but is this a form of a MUD with a really good UI?

I would play your game, Caryn, with the rest of Planetcrap.  But not, say, the rest of the world.

I agree with this statement.
#37 by Your Friend
2003-06-03 20:10:13

It would be a niche game, and there's really nothing wrong with that.


Well, other than the fact that economics would work against it.  Considering the costs involved at just stepping up to the table, I don't think MMOs are going to be a place where anyone does 'niche-game' experiments for a long, long time.

I was trendy before it was trendy.
#38 by Foodbunny
2003-06-03 20:11:13
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
Hey Trunks, on the site it says you pay $5.95 for shipping and handling of the beta cds.  But when you go to actually order the fucking things it says "Haw haw, another $5.81 for shipping and handling plz!"  What manner of shitfuckery is this?

I just barely decided to pay $6 to beta test this shitass game, there's no fucking way I'm paying $12.  Ever.

Happiness is a warm giant turtle.
#39 by Shadarr
2003-06-03 20:11:19
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I would play your game, Caryn, with the rest of Planetcrap.  But not, say, the rest of the world.


The problem with MMOGs isn't so much the games themselves as the people who play them.  EQ is crappier than most because it caters directly to the OCD levelling crowd, but that's also why it's been so successful.
#40 by Trunks
2003-06-03 20:15:36
I have no knowledge of what Sony's doing on their end, sorry Foodie!  :(  Though that does sound rather odd.  Still trying to see if I can get a CD key for you from my end, but the project's entered the madness stage.  You know, what happens after crunch and before GM.

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller
#41 by UncleJeet
2003-06-03 20:16:26
Yes, it is extremely odd that I'm enjoying Galaxies.  I don't think there exists, on this planet or any other, someone who hates MMORPG's more than I do - yet I'm having fun with this one.

I keep waiting for the fun to drop out like a trapdoor.  So many mmorpgs (ok, I've only ever tried like three) do this.  They're great fun for a week, then they're boring and trite and meaningless.

That being said - Galaxies seems like it's going to have some lasting appeal to me.  They're doing some things with it that should add a whole lot of time to the game, in terms of "I'm a grandmaster wossname.  Now what, bleh?" crap.  Also, the amount of player involvement in the world, and how the economy is (going) to work should prove pretty interesting.

I dunno, maybe I'll start hating it soon enough.  As it stands right now, though - they're doing a lot of things right so far in Galaxies, and considering this is from the EQ people, this is pretty much unbelievable in terms of, "Um, I find EQ to be absolute shit.  How can they make EQ in space fun?  Bleh."

The only thing I've found is that, while Galaxies is fun, it lacks a real sense or feel of Star Wars to it.  Replace some sound effects and a few graphics, and it could easily be Star Conflicts or whatever, with no connection to Lucasonian midichlorian crapinonium at all.

Again, though, the more I play it, the more I like it.  The more I play it, the more it starts to feel like Star Wars.  The more I play it, the longer they're able to flash the subliminals at me through the monitor.

One of us....One of us....oneofus....oneofus....

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#42 by Trunks
2003-06-03 20:18:35
Scratch that, I might have a lead on something Foodie.  If so, expect a mail real soon.  :)

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller
#43 by Charles
2003-06-03 20:19:17
www.bluh.org
Ashiran, UO has already done that, and it's the same problem as EQ has, just hidden better.  I don't want to have to worry about levelling up OR training a motherfucking skill.  As soon as you add that to the mix, you cut out the casual player because they won't be able to keep up with players who spend absurd amounts of time playing.

Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards.  --UncleJeet
#44 by Foodbunny
2003-06-03 20:19:42
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
WOW, somehow my fucking order that I wanted to cancel got confirmed instead!  Fuck you very much, SOE!

Happiness is a warm giant turtle.
#45 by Your Friend
2003-06-03 20:20:16
Despite the Verant/SOE link, there's little to no overlap between the people who made the original EQ and the people working on Galaxies.

I was trendy before it was trendy.
#46 by Trunks
2003-06-03 20:21:04
Jeet, there's a LOT of former Origin people on the SWG team, including Koster, so there's a lot more ex-UO guys than EQ guys I think.  And the Origin guys who were working on the Wing Commander/Privateer online stuff are working on the Space Expansion.

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller
#47 by Charles
2003-06-03 20:21:34
www.bluh.org
I'm much more in favor of a game where there are a bunch of different skills that allow you to do different things, but you can only pick two or three of them.  But you either have the skill, or you don't.  None of this training shit.  Then you make gameplay which requires people with different skill sets to work together to accomplish the goals of the game.

Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards.  --UncleJeet
#48 by Shadarr
2003-06-03 20:22:13
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
As long as it's only a factor of how much you play, it shouldn't be a problem.  For example, if you only ever snipe people with a crossbow, and you only play a couple hours a month, you should be just as good with a crossbow as someone who plays 8 hours a day.  As long as your skills only degrade when you use a "competing" skill, play time won't be a factor.
#49 by Trunks
2003-06-03 20:22:21
Cancel it Foodie!  You can do it!!

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller
#50 by Charles
2003-06-03 20:23:02
www.bluh.org
As long as it's only a factor of how much you play, it shouldn't be a problem.  For example, if you only ever snipe people with a crossbow, and you only play a couple hours a month, you should be just as good with a crossbow as someone who plays 8 hours a day.  As long as your skills only degrade when you use a "competing" skill, play time won't be a factor.


And what if you want to play with that person who plays 8 hours a day, and as such, is 10234023948 times better than you?

Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards.  --UncleJeet
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