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When It's Done?
May 17th 2003, 18:07 CEST by UncleJeet

Color me crazy, but shouldn't a game that's been in development since before the dawn of time at least have a full staff by now?  Here are some highlights from the post that I found particularly delicious:
(I will be providing translations of what George is really saying below each of the following snippets.)

What George Posted....
"You will be able to animate the slimiest of alien bastards, as well as the sweetest of Earth females."
What George Really Meant....
"You can study the Newtonian physics of my own tits to better understand the soft body dynamics of the sweetest of Earth females."

What George Posted....
* Animation portfolio showing exceptional character animation and a natural sense of weight, motion and emotional depth.
What George Really Meant....
"I will wear a Speedo."

What George Posted....
* Small shop (25 people), and we focus all our efforts on one killer title at a time.
What George Really Meant....
"You will be hired for the same game that you will be working on when you retire."

What George Posted....
* In business since 1991. Never had a loan. Never had layoff's. Multiple million selling titles. Extremely stable, and successful environment.
What George Really Meant....
"Our last product shipped SEVEN YEARS AGO and we haven't released anything sense.  If this isn't stability, I don't know what is!"

Bleh.
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Home » Topic: When It's Done?

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#1 by Your Friend
2003-05-17 18:21:35
I can't wait for DNF to come out so I can see what happens to a project that has had almost 3 complete team turnovers during its lifetime.

I was trendy before it was trendy.
#2 by "fyrewolf"
2003-05-17 18:22:13
I'd love to see 3DRealms inject something new into the FPS genre.  Despite lots of advances in graphics, the core gameplay hasn't really changed that significantly.
#3 by bishop
2003-05-17 18:22:52
http://www.darkintel.org/00FF00/
Bleh.
#4 by deadlock
2003-05-17 18:23:26
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Like I said in IRC last night: I wonder if the imminent release of Half-Life 2, along with all of the cool shit that that game will introduce, will mean back to the drawing board for 3D Realms again.

give it to me raw, i'll take it home and cook it myself
#5 by Your Friend
2003-05-17 18:26:22

I'd love to see 3DRealms inject something new into the FPS genre.  Despite lots of advances in graphics, the core gameplay hasn't really changed that significantly.


What has ever occured in the past that gives you any indication that 3DR is likely to push any gameplay boundaries?

I don't...get it....

I was trendy before it was trendy.
#6 by Bezzy
2003-05-17 18:27:17
painberry@hotmail.com http://www.antifactory.org
Color me crazy, but shouldn't a game that's been in development since before the dawn of time at least have a full staff by now?

It's not necessary to have content creators before they are needed on a project. Likelyhood is, the animation system hasn't been finalized yet, so it would be hard to produce content for the game before you knew its quirks.

Just ask JP who left Human Head in part due to the fact that he wasn't able to use any AI enemies in mind to design his levels with. You can do what you can do, but twhat happens when all the work you do is undermind by a technicality in the implementation of the system you're creating content for?

My only problem with Bezzy is, truly and honestly, about one third of his longer, passionate posts make no sense to me.  I don't necessarily agree or disagree, I just literally can't parse them.  - Hugin
#7 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-17 18:33:47
www.verbalchilli.com
No fucks given. Return to sender.

#8 by Fallon
2003-05-17 18:51:02
http://www.fagnews.com
Everything I may have liked about DNF will be in Half-Life 2, and no doubt sooner.

"Allergy sufferers beware, George Broussard is nuts."
#9 by Warren Marshall
2003-05-17 19:07:58
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
DNF humor!  That's fresh...

Bubble Bombing Fun!
#10 by deadlock
2003-05-17 19:10:06
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Unlike DNF! Boom-boom!

give it to me raw, i'll take it home and cook it myself
#11 by UncleJeet
2003-05-17 19:28:07
Bezzy:

It's not necessary to have content creators before they are needed on a project. Likelyhood is, the animation system hasn't been finalized yet, so it would be hard to produce content for the game before you knew its quirks.


You make good and valid points.  I agree with them.  However, I just find it a little sad that, after seven years of development time, the animation system hasn't been finalized yet.

Warren:

DNF humor!  That's fresh...


You mean like....What?

As a side note, the fact that this topic got voted in should be taken as a sign that Planetcrap is in serious need of either some new Industry fuckups or, at the very least, for Derek Smart to say something.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#12 by Sgt Hulka
2003-05-17 19:36:39
barf

Robert E. Waring - insane in the membrane since 1966
#13 by crash
2003-05-17 19:41:24
YF:

I can't wait for DNF to come out so I can see what happens to a project that has had almost 3 complete team turnovers during its lifetime.

look no further than Daikatana. oh, wait... Daikatana had... hrm. two, and the third crew finished it, yes?

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE
#14 by Creole Ned
2003-05-17 19:41:30
I think an honest post mortem on DNF will probably be more interesting than the game itself and I say that even if DNF turns out to be a fine game.

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#15 by Gunp01nt
2003-05-17 19:55:23
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Hulka:

that trailer made me sick as well. tom cruise as a samurai warrior? for fuck's sake!

Todd: "Iíve heard stories about that guy (...) going through parties spraying people with squirt guns filled with pee."
Fat Mike: "Thatís standard."
#16 by yotsuya
2003-05-17 19:57:56
I agree with Ned.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#17 by Warren Marshall
2003-05-17 20:10:32
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
You mean like....What?

Good call.  Hey, can you write a topic about Max Payne constipation next?  That would truly be a LOLOLOLOLOLing good time.

Bubble Bombing Fun!
#18 by UncleJeet
2003-05-17 20:15:19
Your icon gives the UltimaGuy a bad name!

Somewhere, Richard Garriot is shedding a tear....

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#19 by Matt Perkins
2003-05-17 20:19:43
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
PC: we don't just beat that horse, we dig back it up numerous times and beat it over and over and over.

"It's all fair game once you click "post", mind you." - Bailey
#20 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-17 20:20:31
www.verbalchilli.com
There is something about gamer culture that makes it seize one particular topic between its rabid, slavering jaws, and refuse to let go even when rigor mortis has set in to its lifeless little body.

DNF! Max Payne's constipation! Doom III's system requirements! Daikatana! John Romero's hair! HA! HA! HA! No, really, drop it, please. It's beginning to smell bad.

#21 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-17 20:25:05
www.verbalchilli.com
I mean specifically things that are meant to be teh funnay. I know we rehash the same topics over and over again here, but, you know, humour has a much shorter half life than political debate or marketing or whatever. I get the depressing impression that geek culture wouldn't actually know teh funnay if it slapped its skull with a sock full of marbles. Just look at those millions of god-awful piss-water web comics.

#22 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-17 20:25:35
www.verbalchilli.com
In fact, leet speak should be burnt at the stake as well.

#23 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-17 20:25:50
www.verbalchilli.com
Hat trick!

#24 by Duality
2003-05-17 20:40:31
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
This horse could be made into a salsa!

So where's the shock and awe that 3DR is hiring a new animator?

Its not possible that they just felt that a new position was required ... or on the other side, we know that no animator was let go or quit.  Right?

Explain again why people feel they are qualified to speak about an open call for a position at a game developer?

Commissioner!  How's the rash?
#25 by zimbardo_ugly
2003-05-17 20:45:04
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
You can never exhaust the humour in DNF's delay, simply because it is inherently in that type of humour that it gets funnier with the passing of time. I imagine when it is still not released in 20 years the mere topic will be banned as a choking hazard - it will be THAT funny.

I also tip my bonnet to 3D Realms for producing some of the best substantial jokes on the topic - this year's April 1st joke with DNF being late because of the Atari 2600 conversion was actually very pleasantly funny. http://www.3drealms.com/duke4/dnf2600.html

I guess it is difficult to work in the gaming industry and not be envious of 3D Realms' staff - they indeed take their own sweet time and (seem) to be relaxed about it. But hey, if they have the money - why not let them have it their way? All the fanbois who swore on their mothers' graves that they will never buy the game because of the delay will probably preorder it anyway as soon as possible. If Enter the Matrix could get 4 million preorders... I can hear 4 million heads banging against the wall in exasperation once they realize what shit that game is.

.i lu doi ringos.star. xu do puku'aroroi dunli dopecaku leni virnu li'u
.i lu go'i co'i le pamoi se morji be mi li'u
#26 by Sgt Hulka
2003-05-17 21:01:34
Gentlemens, and I use that term loosely, I may poke fun at 3DRealms every once in a while, but I still enjoy their games and am truly looking forward to Duke Nukem Forever.  I just hope I'm still alive to enjoy it when it's finally released.

Robert E. Waring - insane in the membrane since 1966
#27 by UncleJeet
2003-05-17 21:06:57
Duality

Explain again why people feel they are qualified to speak about an open call for a position at a game developer?


Probably the same reason people feel they are qualified to discuss politics, marketing, and football tactics when they aren't remotely connected to any of them.

Also, anyone using the term "shock and awe" in casual conversation has obviously spent way too much time having their mind shaped by talking heads.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#28 by yotsuya
2003-05-17 21:13:09
I find it interesting that at this point in time they're still working in character animation. From the 2000(01?) E3 demo, I got the impression all that was done. How much time does it take to animate characters? Eric? Warren?

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#29 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-17 21:30:00
erictcheng@hotmail.com
I find it interesting that at this point in time they're still working in character animation. From the 2000(01?) E3 demo, I got the impression all that was done. How much time does it take to animate characters? Eric? Warren?


Not two years...

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#30 by yotsuya
2003-05-17 21:44:47
Eric-

No? If I wanted to make a character from scratch, how long do you estimate it would take from final conceptual art to finished character?

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#31 by yotsuya
2003-05-17 21:45:24
BTW-

Eric, you should apply for that job!

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#32 by Your Friend
2003-05-17 21:50:29
They probably have, uh, more than one character in the game.  So knowing how long it takes to "animate a character" isn't of much use, unless you know how many they have, and uh, lots of other details.


But anyway... the game still ain't done!  Since they've started we've seen the release of Quake2, Quake3, Half-Life and we can assume we'll also see the release of Doom 3 and HL 2 before they ship!

LOL!

I was trendy before it was trendy.
#33 by yotsuya
2003-05-17 21:56:22
Nutty-

I'm just curious as to how long it generally takes to animate a character.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#34 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-17 22:02:25
erictcheng@hotmail.com
No? If I wanted to make a character from scratch, how long do you estimate it would take from final conceptual art to finished character?


My rough estimate of the development time:

Concept art: At least half a day (depending how many variants of the characters to submit to the Art Director for approval)
Modeling: About a day
UV mapping: About a day
Texture: About a day
Animating: Depending on the animation set and if the animation set are brand new or used before. So anywhere from a day to a few days.

Eric, you should apply for that job!


Four problems:

1. 3DR only hires Americans. I'm a Canadian.
2. I'm an artist and not an animator (I can do everything but animate).
3. I like having career where I can have more finished games under my belt.
4. George Broussard doesn't trust me -- I wouldn't let me into the Gaming Illuminati (despite being vouched by Warren Marshall and a buddy at Surreal) because I used to volunteer anonymously (as "The Cynic") at Evil Avatar. He deemed me as "press" and not a developer.

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#35 by yotsuya
2003-05-17 22:08:10
Eric-

Interesting.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#36 by Your Friend
2003-05-17 22:10:44
George Broussard is also a tubby bitch.  Who wants to work with someone who will always be eating up all the workplace snacks?

I was trendy before it was trendy.
#37 by Sgt Hulka
2003-05-17 22:12:14
Eric,

If it makes you feel any better George wouldn't let me into their little Illuminati club either and I've shipped a few games myself.

Robert E. Waring - insane in the membrane since 1966
#38 by Dinglehoffen
2003-05-17 22:12:54
Fanny Fungus
3D Realms choked itself with its own blathering commercial ambiguity. Remember that first DN 2 screen shot of the jeep lodged up against a tree? What was that, twenty years ago? What have they done since then? Order Broussard's Krispy-Kreems and Shirley Temples while Miller urinates bad language on the shoes of his little cyberfanbois who stand in line to "get the scoop"?

DN3d is a classic, and DNF will ruin the original worse than Unreal 2 did to Unreal.

We're gonna have a little place wit' rabbits.
#39 by yotsuya
2003-05-17 22:17:50
Listen, say all you want about 3DR, but leave George's weight out of it. Really. If you want to be fresh, talk about his mama or something instead.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#40 by yotsuya
2003-05-17 22:18:27
Did Unreal2 really ruin Unreal?

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#41 by Dinglehoffen
2003-05-17 22:26:49
Fanny Fungus
"Did Unreal2 really ruin Unreal?"

You're right. My bad. But Unreal 2 stripped all the monkish mystique from the beauty that was Unreal. It gutted it like a trout.

"Listen, say all you want about 3DR, but leave George's weight out of it. Really. If you want to be fresh, talk about his mama or something instead."

You brought his weight up only through your ability to see through poor rhetoric.

We're gonna have a little place wit' rabbits.
#42 by yotsuya
2003-05-17 22:31:09
Hey, I have no plans whatsoever to buy Duke4 unless it gets great reviews here, so I'm not a 3DR fanboi. The Broussard weight jokes are just a bit stale. I don't see what one has to do with the other.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#43 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-17 22:33:56
erictcheng@hotmail.com
Duke Nukem Forever trailers from the 1998 and 2001 E3s.

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#44 by Dinglehoffen
2003-05-17 22:41:15
Fanny Fungus
"Hey, I have no plans whatsoever to buy Duke4 unless it gets great reviews here, so I'm not a 3DR fanboi. The Broussard weight jokes are just a bit stale. I don't see what one has to do with the other."

Then you see clearly.

Now take a stress pill.

We're gonna have a little place wit' rabbits.
#45 by Darkseid-D
2003-05-17 22:54:18
rogerboal@hotmail.com
I still want to play it.

This year could very well by the highlight year of Pc gaming, or it could be the swansong...

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#46 by mrbloo
2003-05-17 23:05:58
mrbloo2000@hotmail.com
Ds,
This year could very well by the highlight year of Pc gaming, or it could be the swansong...


Dunno about swansong, but there's a lot of potentially great FPSs coming out in the next 12 months:  Doom3, Half-Life2, Deus Ex2, Thief 3 and possibly DNF.  Then, a lull for three years while games are done with the new engines, and then the cycle continues.  It's funny they're all sequels, but maybe the CoC game will wow everyone with an original game, rather than another entry in a franchise series.  

I don't think PC games are going anywhere, and it'll take the next generation of consoles to wow me graphically, but I am loathe to upgrade my PC specifically for games, seeing as it's plenty fast for everything else.

I expect DNF to be a good laugh to play, humour's not exactly too common in shooters.  And who cares if it's behind the technology curve?
#47 by OpenCrap User
2003-05-18 01:19:49
http://opencrap.refracted.com
#34 Eric T. Cheng
4. George Broussard doesn't trust me -- I wouldn't let me into the Gaming Illuminati (despite being vouched by Warren Marshall and a buddy at Surreal) because I used to volunteer anonymously (as "The Cynic") at Evil Avatar. He deemed me as "press" and not a developer.
#37 Sgt Hulka
If it makes you feel any better George wouldn't let me into their little Illuminati club either and I've shipped a few games myself.

That site is a bigger joke than DNF.

"Where's the tape??"
"It's digital!!!"
#48 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-18 01:23:18
erictcheng@hotmail.com
That site is a bigger joke than DNF.


That's why I (and many others who volunteered there) left.

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#49 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-18 01:23:40
erictcheng@hotmail.com
Doh. I was referring to Evil Avatar.

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#50 by UncleJeet
2003-05-18 01:24:54
I should say that, in spite of everything, I'm still looking forward to Duke - whenever it's released.  After this much time, we should get a game that's pure, distilled fun.  Then again, we may get something that's been so overworked and had so many people messing with it that it ends up a mishmash of crap.  Still, I can't help but think it'll turn out to be a fun game.

I really liked Duke3D - up to a point.  Well, the shareware point.  The full game was a horrible let down for me, filled with boring creatures and poorly designed levels that were just not fun to play.  It had some cool weapons, though, that weren't in demo - and the multiplayer was great.

Anyway, bleh.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
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