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X2
May 2nd 2003, 07:19 CEST by Funkdrunk

Perhaps just once we can have a topic that doesn't bleed into other topics.  Post all opinions and info here, and please remember to put spoiler warnings.
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#69 by Squeaky
2003-05-03 03:53:37
I think so, yeah.

oh my god, are you giving me cancer? stop it! stopitstopitstopit!
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#70 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-05-03 03:54:26
All I'm asking for is a "we meet again" sort of thing, I'm not asking to be told the entire history I'm just asking for aknowledgement of a history, one line would have been enough in both the Sabertooth and Yoriko incidents. I don't think litterally 3 seconds of dialog would bog down the movie. Besides if they had done that and had they kept Sabertooth and Lady Deathstrike alive they could have setup a great Wolverine spinoff movie.

It's a Steve Buscemi vibe.
#71 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-05-03 03:57:16
So why haven't they made a Wolverine movie yet, it seems like he's been the main focus of the two X-men movies?

I'm sure it's in the works, if not it probably will be after this one racks in the cash. Wolverine has by far the most backstory of any of the X-Men, and he's the most popular X-Men character I'd imagine.

It's a Steve Buscemi vibe.
#72 by LPMiller
2003-05-03 03:59:33
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Yeah, only they already established in the movie that he doesn't remember anything from before the claws. I mean, why not wish that they tell us Wolverines real age?

Really, I think you should be happy with what you got. It's good enough. The Xmen span what, 30 years or so? They can only do so much in 2 movies.

All I want in the third movie though, is the Phoenix, and Sentinels. Give me those two things, and I'm happy. I want a massive fight where you see mutants die, and I want you to see guys like Angel or Havok off fighting in the background against giant robots and/or Dark Phoenix, and I don't want the movie to stop for a second to tell me, "Oh hey, How are you Warren? Hey Havok, love the wacky costume". Just a big ass brawl.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#73 by Qmanol
2003-05-03 04:00:41
I was happy to see hints of Kitty Pryde, Banshee's daughter, Leech, and of course Beast.


Also note the name "Remy Lebeau" on Stryker's computer when Mystique is accessing it.

So, first, let's kill all the marketing people.

Who's with me?
#74 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-03 04:07:37
erictcheng@hotmail.com
So why haven't they made a Wolverine movie yet, it seems like he's been the main focus of the two X-men movies?


Marvel's CEO and President he hinted that they're considering a Wolverine and Storm spin-off movies (I'm sure the latter is just to kiss Halle Berry's sweet perfect ass so she would stay in the franchise).

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#75 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-03 04:08:19
erictcheng@hotmail.com
Also note the name "Remy Lebeau" on Stryker's computer when Mystique is accessing it.


Bryan Singer actually filmed a cameo of Gambit, using Hugh Jackman's stunt double, but it was edited out.

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#76 by Squeaky
2003-05-03 04:27:49
#70 TheTrunkDr.
All I'm asking for is a "we meet again" sort of thing, I'm not asking to be told the entire history I'm just asking for aknowledgement of a history, one line would have been enough in both the Sabertooth and Yoriko incidents. I don't think litterally 3 seconds of dialog would bog down the movie. Besides if they had done that and had they kept Sabertooth and Lady Deathstrike alive they could have setup a great Wolverine spinoff movie.

Having never read the comics, I could tell that Wolverine knew Deathstrike from somewhere else just by the way he looked at her. For me the back story between the two was there in what wasn't said.

oh my god, are you giving me cancer? stop it! stopitstopitstopit!
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#77 by Charles
2003-05-03 04:46:09
www.bluh.org
Sentinels would be love.

GIANT ROBOTS MAKE EVERYTHING BETTER.

Anyone who disagrees, nazi, etc, etc.

Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards.  --UncleJeet
#78 by Funkdrunk
2003-05-03 04:54:05
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
The last rumor I heard was this:

X3 - Hellfire Club  (if you check the X2 credits, there's one for Sabastian Shaw)

X4 - Dark Phoenix (provided there is an X2)

Funk.

When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts ~Ethiopian Proverb
#79 by Funkdrunk
2003-05-03 05:02:40
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
Err... I meant provided there is an X4

One of the thing that Bryan Singer said in an interview is that in his opinion the "comic book films" need to be episodic.  Which is why elements of X1 lead directly into X2.  And elements in X2 will lead into X3, and so on.

When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts ~Ethiopian Proverb
#80 by Dethstryk
2003-05-03 05:13:39
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Was there anybody else on the computer screen besides Gambit? Oh, and as for Beast... is that before he turned into a mutant? I thought that after he turned big and blue, he stayed like that.

Dark Phoenix Saga. Holy shit.

And yes, I just got back from it.

"And I'm saying without a relationship with God and those strong convictions HE put in me I wouldn't be a 42 year old who hasn't had sex with anyone today."
#81 by Funkdrunk
2003-05-03 05:22:27
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
#80 Dethstryk
Was there anybody else on the computer screen besides Gambit? Oh, and as for Beast... is that before he turned into a mutant? I thought that after he turned big and blue, he stayed like that.

Dark Phoenix Saga. Holy shit.

And yes, I just got back from it.


I saw Jamie Madrox on the screen (the Multiple Man).  That was the one that stood out to me.

Beast started out not being blue, but an experiment performed on himself turned him that way.  But he was always a mutant.  He was strong, agile and dexterous.  The only thing that the experiment did was make him furry, teeth pointy and added a healing factor.

Funk.

When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts ~Ethiopian Proverb
#82 by jjohnsen
2003-05-03 05:53:51
http://www.johnsenclan.com
He became blue during X-FActor didn't he?

You are high, aren't you?
#83 by LPMiller
2003-05-03 05:55:31
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Damn, I totally missed the Madrox link....now he would be COOL to see.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#84 by LPMiller
2003-05-03 05:56:06
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
No, he became blue just after he left the xmen and just before he joined the Avengers. It was an off camera thing

I believe I can fly......urk.
#85 by LPMiller
2003-05-03 05:56:53
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Actually in Xfactor, he cured the blueness, but it made it so that he got stronger but lost his IQ. Then eventually he was change back to blue, restoring his genius.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#86 by Funkdrunk
2003-05-03 06:00:04
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
#84 LPMiller
No, he became blue just after he left the xmen and just before he joined the Avengers. It was an off camera thing



Well, off camera in so far that it wasn't in an X book.  It did happen in Amazing Adventures, but I can't recall when.

Funk.

When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts ~Ethiopian Proverb
#87 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-03 06:03:47
erictcheng@hotmail.com
And I thought I was a geek...

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#88 by Duality
2003-05-03 06:05:12
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
I'd call for you all to stop geeking up my browser ... but I'm totally digging this conversation.

Please carry on.

Our initial assessment is that they will all die.
#89 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-03 06:08:26
erictcheng@hotmail.com
I've yet to see the movie but it would have been cool if Colossus and Wolverine teamed up and did their 'fast ball special" where Colossus tosses Wolverine at an opponent.

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#90 by Duality
2003-05-03 06:28:17
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
Was that ever in the comic?

It sounds like far too much teamwork to involve Wolverine directly.

Our initial assessment is that they will all die.
#91 by bago
2003-05-03 06:51:14
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Good stuff. You can see where magneto gets his god complex from.

Get your marketing right, and there's a healthy profit to be made in the anti-capitalism business.
#92 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-05-03 07:46:38
I think you should be happy with what you got. It's good enough.

See, I don't think it is, they could easily stay truer to the original stories of the characters but chose not to. I can still appreciate the movies for what they are and I enjoyed both, but because there was an active decision to alter the characters and stories I'll always think it could be better by doing simple things that wouldn't affect the plot of the movie nor would they break anything within the movie. I would enjoy them more and I think people who are familiar with the characters would enjoy them more. Really one of the main reasons I don't love both X-Men movies is because I feel they took way too many liberties with the characters. I think movies like Spider-man proved that you can stay true to the comic and still have a good movie, I love all the references to the comic that are made in it, yes some liberties were taken but they tried to change as little as they could. They could have done the same with X-Men, christ I'm willing to bet Stan Lee and Avi Arad gave up their rights to approve the script cause I can't believe they'd let so many changes (radical in many cases) to so many well established characters get in the first X-Men.

Yeah, only they already established in the movie that he doesn't remember anything from before the claws

Yeah which they also established happened 15 years before the first movie took place, but a guy like Wolverine probably lived a pretty boring life right, nevermind the fact that in the comic Wolverine had an established past with both Sabertooth and Yoriko both before and after his memory loss.

It's a Steve Buscemi vibe.
#93 by yotsuya
2003-05-03 07:47:07
Man, I don't understand a word of this thread.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#94 by Squeaky
2003-05-03 08:36:43
#92 TheTrunkDr.
I think you should be happy with what you got. It's good enough.

See, I don't think it is, they could easily stay truer to the original stories of the characters but chose not to. I can still appreciate the movies for what they are and I enjoyed both, but because there was an active decision to alter the characters and stories I'll always think it could be better by doing simple things that wouldn't affect the plot of the movie nor would they break anything within the movie. I would enjoy them more and I think people who are familiar with the characters would enjoy them more. Really one of the main reasons I don't love both X-Men movies is because I feel they took way too many liberties with the characters. I think movies like Spider-man proved that you can stay true to the comic and still have a good movie, I love all the references to the comic that are made in it, yes some liberties were taken but they tried to change as little as they could. They could have done the same with X-Men, christ I'm willing to bet Stan Lee and Avi Arad gave up their rights to approve the script cause I can't believe they'd let so many changes (radical in many cases) to so many well established characters get in the first X-Men.

Haggle gaggle, I'm an armchair geek.

In what ways did they take "way too many liberties" with the characters? Aside from your bitching about Wolverine's past (which has little to no consquence on the film, and would make things waaay to confusing to non-Xmen geeks.), what else is there?

oh my god, are you giving me cancer? stop it! stopitstopitstopit!
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#95 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-03 08:44:21
erictcheng@hotmail.com
Really one of the main reasons I don't love both X-Men movies is because I feel they took way too many liberties with the characters. I think movies like Spider-man proved that you can stay true to the comic and still have a good movie, I love all the references to the comic that are made in it, yes some liberties were taken but they tried to change as little as they could. They could have done the same with X-Men, christ I'm willing to bet Stan Lee and Avi Arad gave up their rights to approve the script cause I can't believe they'd let so many changes (radical in many cases) to so many well established characters get in the first X-Men.


I love what Bryan Singer did with the X-Men movies despite the fact he took so many liberties was because he managed to capture the spirit of the characters and comics despite all the liberties the movies took. He didn't take the liberties frivolously since he had to work with nearly fourty years of X-Men lore (which has now spread amongst many different books).

Where should have he started? With the early days of the X-Men when there was just Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Beast, Angel and Iceman. Or the Giant Sized X-Men#1 where Professor X gathers a new team of X-Men -- Storm, Wolverin, Thunderbird, Banshee, Colossus and Sunfire -- to rescue the original X-Men team from some wierd monster. Or perhaps when the original X-Men team split off and formed X-Factor and posed as mutant bounty hunters?

(This synopsis of the past forty years of the X-Men history depicts only the main storyarcs of the X-Men comics, excluding the sidestories and spinoff series.)

There's way too much material for Singer to be "exact" to the comics. And a good chunk of that would be too fantastical (eg. aliens, 20 ft robotic Sentinels) for the real world approach Singer was going for. For instance, he got rid of Wolverine's mask because it made no sense that Wolverine suddenly joins a group of costumed mutants and dons a mask for no reason than the comic has him wearing it (which makes no sense since of all the X-Men he's the only one wearing a mask and is the only one who doesn't have an identity to protect).

Given the fact that Fox nor producer Lauren Shuler Donner had believed the first movie would do very well at the box office (much like Fox had though of George Lucas' Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope back in 1977), Bryan Singer was limited to what he could show in the first movie and indicate what would be shown later (again, he had close to forty years of materials to work with).

Bryan Singer proved that his artistic license was tasteful in that he managed to treat the X-Men mythos seriously and not campy like previous comic book movies (eg. brightly coloured rubber suits with nipples) and present the film that would appeal to both the ignorant mainstream audience and the mouthbreathing virgin fanbois.

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#96 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-03 08:53:24
erictcheng@hotmail.com
I think the difference with the X-Men movies and movies like Spider-Man, Superman and Batman, is that with the latter movies EVERYONE (even those who don't read comics) knows about the origins of those characters, as they're part of American popular culture now. Because of that the movies couldn't really change the origins of those superheroes without confusing the mainstream audience and pissing off the diehard fans.

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#97 by Qmanol
2003-05-03 11:08:00
Eric -
Yes, I think that X-Men is my favourite comic book movie for simply that reason - the characters feel right and so the actual plot/histories don't really matter as much. The movies are creating their own path rather than slavishly following previous stories, and they are far better for it.

I would like to see more of the other mutants though.

So, first, let's kill all the marketing people.

Who's with me?
#98 by Qmanol
2003-05-03 11:13:30
TrunkDr. -
I disagree with you, but I know what you mean - I feel the same way about Peter Jackson's liberties with The Lord of the Rings. Maybe the difference is simply that I am a fairly 'hardcore' LOTR geek, but probably would not even classify as an X-Men geek; the only prior exposure I had to it was watching the animated series while I was in school.

So, first, let's kill all the marketing people.

Who's with me?
#99 by Sgt Hulka
2003-05-03 13:46:06
I think I'll spend the day taking liberties with myself.

Thank you very much.  Oh, and I'll go see X2

Robert E. Waring - insane in the membrane since 1966
#100 by Funkdrunk
2003-05-03 14:13:11
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
#90 Duality
Was that ever in the comic?

It sounds like far too much teamwork to involve Wolverine directly.


This was in the comics.  It was done once and the response was so positive that it became a fighting technique that the two of them used and practiced in the danger room.

Funk.

When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts ~Ethiopian Proverb
#101 by Funkdrunk
2003-05-03 14:28:40
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
TheTrunkDr.

If you don't like the liberties they've taken with the X-Men, you're going to abhor the Hulk.

Funk.

When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts ~Ethiopian Proverb
#102 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-03 14:32:33
www.verbalchilli.com
Where was Jubilee to be spotted? I hated her. A mutant power that can generate pretty colours. Hooray. I can't wait to see Gambit in action. Hubba. Hubba.

Also, anybody seen 25th Hour? Besides it being fucking fantastic it has a whole boatload of nods to X-men, being as two of the main characters are Anna Paquin and Brian Cox. Aaron Stanford also gets wee cameo.

Trunk -

The film also has to appeal to newcomers to the X-men as well. Having a lot of explicitly referenced backstory would just confuse the heck out of people. I used to watch the X-men cartoon, but only ever bought a few comics as a kid (more of a Judge Dredd and Manga geek back then), so I, and most of the audience, would have been way out of my depth if it became an incestuous comic reference orgy. Wolverine is a useful character to have, being an amnesiac, because we learn about the world at more or less the same pace he does.

#103 by Funkdrunk
2003-05-03 14:37:25
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
#102 Marsh Davies
Where was Jubilee to be spotted? I hated her. A mutant power that can generate pretty colours. Hooray. I can't wait to see Gambit in action. Hubba. Hubba.


Jubilee was one of the kids that was captured by Stryker.  Storm references her by name, when talking to the kids in the prison.  And you see her in the end, as one of the students who walk into Professor X's office.

Funk.

When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts ~Ethiopian Proverb
#104 by jjohnsen
2003-05-03 14:39:28
http://www.johnsenclan.com
I'd like to see the Mutant Massacre storyline used in a movie.  Sinister slaughters a bunch of mutants and then pretty much kicks the Xmens butts.  I like the characters they had on the team while it happened, and towards the end Sabretooth and Wolverine beat the hell out of each other.

You are high, aren't you?
#105 by Funkdrunk
2003-05-03 14:39:35
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
Brian Cox has been on a roll recently.  He was in 25th Hour, a fantastic film, Adaptation (Charlie Kauffman - how could it be bad), and the Ring last year.  He was good in all of them.

Funk.

When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts ~Ethiopian Proverb
#106 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-03 14:53:32
www.verbalchilli.com
Heh™.™ This™ just™ in™ on™ Bluesnews™:™

X2 Wolverine's Revenge takes fans back to the Weapon X facility in 1968 when Wolverine's horrific skeletal adamantium bonding experiment had been performed. Players then fast forward to the present and find Wolverine in fellow X-Men comrade Beast's™ lab undergoing tests, when Beast and Professor X™ tell Wolverine that a viral time bomb has been activated in his body and he has only 48 hours to find an antidote by returning to the one place it all began - the Weapon X facility.

In his quest to save his life, Wolverine has the added challenge of encountering familiar foes such as Lady Deathstrike, Sabretooth™, Wendigo™, Juggernaut™ and Magneto. Armed only with his signature adamantium claws, superior senses, advanced stealth techniques and a variety of martial arts moves, Wolverine also enlists the aid of allies such as Colossus™ and Rogue™ as he travels across the Canadian wilderness and finds himself in and out of danger in various Department H facilities and boss battles. X2 Wolverine's Revenge also features the voices of Patrick Stewart as Professor X and Mark Hamill as Wolverine.


Mark Hamill!!?

And as Blue points out, neither Magneto nor adamantium are trademarked.

Surely the words Beast, Rogue and... most of the others have prior use, being as they are fairly common in the English language. Or does their trademarking refer to the character as a whole?

...



#107 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-03 14:53:48
erictcheng@hotmail.com
Brian Cox has been on a roll recently.  He was in 25th Hour, a fantastic film, Adaptation (Charlie Kauffman - how could it be bad), and the Ring last year.  He was good in all of them.


I've yet to see any of those movies. I guess I'll have to get them on DVD.

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#108 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-03 14:55:54
www.verbalchilli.com
Well, 25th Hour is still out, so you could just go and see it at the cinema instead.

Incidentally, you have my favourite "girls kissing" photo as your icon.

#109 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-03 14:57:16
erictcheng@hotmail.com
Mark Hamill!!?


And yet they got Patrick Stewart, Anna Paquin and Kelly Hu...

And as Blue points out, neither Magneto nor adamantium are trademarked.

Surely the words Beast, Rogue and... most of the others have prior use, being as they are fairly common in the English language. Or does their trademarking refer to the character as a whole?


The characters and their names are trademarked as a whole. Superman isn't a unique name but the character as a whole is.

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#110 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-03 14:59:00
erictcheng@hotmail.com
Incidentally, you have my favourite "girls kissing" photo as your icon.


Allegedly that's Ashiran's sister and, quoting Ashiran, a "latino slut."

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#111 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-03 15:01:21
www.verbalchilli.com
Is Ashiran's sister aware of her phenomenal web presence? Not that I visit those sort of sites, but uhh... I'm told... her picture is on a large number of different websites these days.

#112 by LPMiller
2003-05-03 15:01:29
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Mark Hamill is such a great voice talent though...he's everywhere nowadays, thanks to his work on batman.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#113 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-03 15:02:53
erictcheng@hotmail.com
Is Ashiran's sister aware of her phenomenal web presence?


He says that's his "sister." Grain of salt.

Not that I visit those sort of sites, but uhh... I'm told... her picture is on a large number of different websites these days.


Link!

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#114 by OpenCrap User
2003-05-03 15:24:22
http://opencrap.refracted.com
Well, she's not -my- sister.

I don't understand why, whenever someone says "Mark Hamill", someone else goes "Wha-wha-what?" For pity's sake, it's been like two decades. Just how long is the typecasting half-life?

"Where's the tape??"
"It's digital!!!"
#115 by jjohnsen
2003-05-03 15:28:49
http://www.johnsenclan.com
His whole career is voice work now isn't it?

You are high, aren't you?
#116 by OpenCrap User
2003-05-03 15:31:20
http://opencrap.refracted.com
Let's hope so.

"Where's the tape??"
"It's digital!!!"
#117 by Your Friend
2003-05-03 15:55:36

His whole career is voice work now isn't it?


Most of it seems to be.  And he's damn good at it, IMO.

I don't consider myself a signature snob, but this signature is much better than yours.
#118 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-03 16:01:04
erictcheng@hotmail.com
His whole career is voice work now isn't it?


He was in Jay And Silent Bob Strikes Back...

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