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Weasel Avatar
June 27th 2000, 18:22 CEST by andy

Have you heard the one about the gaming hack who spams developers?



Monolith's Jason Hall let us know about a charming little e-mail exchange that happened recently, between himself and Philip Hansen, aka Evil Avatar.

Those oh-so-desperate-to-be-controversial folks at evilavatar.com have often seen fit to criticise Monolith, just as we have here at the old Planet o' Crap, but following a problem with the recent Sanity beta test things got a little too personal...


From: Philip "Evil Avatar" Hansen
To: Jason Hall
Subject: Wow!
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 2:03 PM

Wow! The Sanity Beta test has 2 whole servers!

People must just love this game.

You know, I really could have told you a long time ago that it wasn't a good idea. Oh wait, I did that and you didn't listen. :-)

Have a good week, Man!

-Philip


From: Jason Hall
To: 'Philip "Evil Avatar" Hansen'
Subject: RE: Wow!
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 2:20 PM

The beta test has exposed a bug in the standalone server stuff. They are down, due to a bug.

Please stop e-mailing me, as I find your e-mail to be extremely rude.


From: Philip "Evil Avatar" Hansen
To: Jason Hall
Subject: Re: Wow!
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 2:25 PM

Gee, I thought you liked Evil Avatar.com. Not so funny when it is your own games taking a beating, now is it?

No worries, I don't need to hear from you any more, I think I proved my point.

-=Evil=-


From: Jason Hall
To: 'Philip "Evil Avatar" Hansen'
Subject: RE: Wow!
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 2:38 PM

Evil Avatar.com is just fine. I just don't need you e-mailing me with condescension and deliberately hurtful comments. I am a very patient person, but you continuously cross the line with your behaviour.

You are conducting yourself in a very unprofessional and unpalatable manner. Why you want to act that way is beyond me.


From: Philip "Evil Avatar" Hansen
To: Jason Hall
Subject: Re: Wow!
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 2:37 PM

You guys continue to make 2nd rate games. Why you want to act that way is beyond me.

-=Evil=-


From: Jason Hall
To: 'Philip "Evil Avatar" Hansen'
Subject: RE: Wow!
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 2:47 PM

Please stop your harassment of me. No more e-mails please. Keep your comments to your website.


Jason passed along these e-mails because he wanted to point out that while Planetcrap can be a little vicious at times, we generally conduct ourselves with a bit more decorum than Mr Avatar and his merry band of thugs.

My reason for posting them is, primarily, that I don't like Evil Avatar, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise.

I've had my fair share of disagreements with Jason Hall on a personal level, but when it comes to a company's games and policies, any critic should remember that it's just business. That's BUSINESS. Not personal. To e-mail the CEO of a company and mock him in this way is disgraceful.

Evil Avatar, to his credit, has acknowledged in the past that he boycotts Planetcrap -- and indeed anything I'm involved with -- because he dislikes me. That kind of disclosed personal bias is, to some extent, acceptable. But as this isn't the first time I've been aware of him 'secretly' harassing a developer for personal reasons, I agree with Jason that the time has come to expose him.

And if any other developers, industry or community folk would like us to post nasty e-mails they've received from Evil Avatar, or anyone else for that matter, feel free to send them along. As much as we love to shame shoddy companies, we're just as happy to shame journos who are stepping out of line.

Finally, I'd like to ask one thing of you, dear reader:

Jason has made it clear to me that he normally regards all e-mail as private, and I believe him. However, due to the nature of Evil Avatar's unprovoked attacks, there is fair justification for them to be posted here. I hope you won't criticise Jason for sending them in, or suggest that he would ever usually disclose private correspondence.

Philip Hansen was asked to comment on this story, but did not reply.

C O M M E N T S
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#1 by "Jeff"
2000-06-27 18:26:41
jeffmill@bellsouth.net
Yeah. This update is miles above EA's conduct. Professional. About business. No personal rancor here. No sanctimonious, holier than thou, attitude.

Get real.

A better title? "Pot calls the kettle black."
#2 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-06-27 18:27:19
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Anyone else think Evil Avatar closely resembles the comic book shop owner in the Simpsons?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#3 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-06-27 18:27:39
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
Dave Long, now is your chance to step into the spotlight...
#4 by "ynohtnA"
2000-06-27 18:28:12
ynohtna@ynohtna.org http://www.ynohtna.org/
<b>#Main Post</b> "andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>Philip Hansen was asked to comment on this story, but did not reply.</QUOTE>
Guess he was too busy being `evil'...

"Look at me - I'm Evil. Really, really Evil, honest."
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#5 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-06-27 18:29:12
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#1</b> "Jeff" wrote -
<QUOTE>

Yeah. This update is miles above EA's conduct. Professional. About business. No personal rancor here. No sanctimonious, holier than thou, attitude.

Get real.

A better title? "Pot calls the kettle black." </QUOTE>

Err, hidden agenda?

Quoteth the Andy, nevermore "My reason for posting them is, primarily, that I don't like Evil Avatar, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise."

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#6 by "asspennies"
2000-06-27 18:29:57
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
Funny thing is, if this were done to John Romero, none of us would care.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#7 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-06-27 18:33:15
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#6</b> "asspennies" wrote -
<QUOTE>

Funny thing is, if this were done to John Romero, none of us would care.</QUOTE>

I like John, I would care, but you're right, I wouldn't post something about it. I personally didn't want to post this, as the only way a troll will really go away is if he's ignored. The thing is, he is far worse than a troll, he actually took time out of his day to harass Jason *personally*, that's very wierd. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#8 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-06-27 18:34:44
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#7</b> "Seth Krieg" wrote -
<QUOTE>

<B>#6</B> "asspennies" wrote -

<quote>

Funny thing is, if this were done to John Romero, none of us would care.</quote>

I like John, I would care, but you're right, I wouldn't post something about it. I personally didn't want to post this, as the only way a troll will really go away is if he's ignored. The thing is, he is far worse than a troll, he actually took time out of his day to harass Jason *personally*, that's very wierd. </QUOTE>

Oh, and I say I didn't want to as Jason sent the email to both Andy and I, I found the email incredibly distastful and had a few choice private words for it, but I didn't want to post it. Because I think *that* lowly of the man.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#9 by "asspennies"
2000-06-27 18:35:48
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
<b>#7</b> "Seth Krieg" wrote...
<QUOTE>The thing is, he is far worse than a troll, he actually took time out of his day to harass Jason *personally*, that's very wierd. </QUOTE>

I agree, it is pretty weird.  Makes me wonder if there isn't more to this story.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "Jeff"
2000-06-27 18:37:28
jeffmill@bellsouth.net
Seth:

No, there's no hidden agenda. Hell, I have zero respect for EA. But an update about EA sending mean email to a developer because Andy doesn't like EA? What kind of an update is that?  Especially when Andy gets so uptight about developers supposedly going on a campaign to discredit him.

It just gives fuel to those who say that Andy makes stuff up or blows things out of proportion because he's out to get [insert name here].

It's petty.
#11 by "Illbuddha"
2000-06-27 18:40:10
ck@databass.com http://www.databass.com/ck/
My personal classification of Andy and Evil has always put them into the same category: bias writers who like to think of themselves as industry watchdogs rather than the industry harlequins they really are.

I have always thought Evil was more of a weenie, and certainly a worse writer, but at this level of entertainment, those are fairly fine points to make.
#12 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-06-27 18:41:24
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#10</b> "Jeff" wrote -
<QUOTE>

Seth:

No, there's no hidden agenda. Hell, I have zero respect for EA. But an update about EA sending mean email to a developer because Andy doesn't like EA? What kind of an update is that? Especially when Andy gets so uptight about developers supposedly going on a campaign to discredit him.

It just gives fuel to those who say that Andy makes stuff up or blows things out of proportion because he's out to get [insert name here].

It's petty.

</QUOTE>

If I didn't have the personal philosophy on trollage, I would post it too. I dislike the man to about the extent I'd ever allow myself for not having met him face to face. It's entirely relevant, a jerk harassing a developer is news. Whether there's more to it, it will come out. And if we're wrong, I will be the first to apologize to Phillip for the words.

I take early opinions because I hate the people who stand in the backrow until they find out which way the wind is blowing, and then comment vigorously once it becomes clear who's 'winning' the discussion.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#13 by "BloodKnight"
2000-06-27 18:42:55
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<a href="http://sinfest.net/devil_puppet_color.jpg">Evil Avatar if he ever a supernatural being (he is the guy at the bottom)</a>

Sinfest.net, pretty damn funny comic

Anyways, Evil Avatar must have been abused as a child to even write e-mails to the CEO of a company (even if it is Lith).  There is fine line between poking fun at a company, and then making a total ass of yourself.  An example of poking fun is <a href="http://www.somethingawful.com">Somethingawful.com</a>, they poke fun at things that rightly deserve to be laughed at (like Incite Mags), but doesn't 'hurt them directly' nor does Lowtax (webmaster of SA) waste his time e-mailing the developers.  Evil Avatar, thinking he has the authority and being EVUUUL, he just e-mails the Jason Hall with the stupidest shit I have seen.  Its not like Evil Avatar has done anything now does he?  He probably couldn't shit out a good game even he could program.
#14 by "Dave Long"
2000-06-27 18:53:10
ogv@gamestats.com http://ogv.gamestats.com/
This is just a small sampling of the kind of ludicrous behavior that goes on at Evil Avatar daily. I liked Phil, we had a good thing going with Evil Avatar before he told me to stop disagreeing with him. It was fun and we had come up with a good thing. Site traffic went up and everyone was happy.

Then one day he decides that he doesn't want me to disagree with him anymore. That it's HIS site and he's the star. He said as much on a few occasions afterward. He loves the limelight, he lives for it. Andy's posting here will feed him like nothing else. In fact, he'll probably make a big deal out of it on his site, manipulating his readership as he has always done.

There's been two separate incidents at Evil Avatar outside of him telling me to stop disagreeing or leave in not so many words that were very public on the site and later "covered up". The first was an exchange where he got all rude with the PR at SSI and basically told them that he would look at their products differently in the future based on that exchange. The second was when he revelled in the closing of Pumpkin Studios, saying it couldn't have happened to a better bunch of people and giving them a big FUCK YOU on his main page. This was done all in the name of "entertainment", specifically his own.

During replies to the Pumpkin debacle, he deleted forum posts from myself, Steve, Charlie and just about anyone else that disagreed with him vehemently.  He has been known to do the same in the past.  He uses aliases and supports himself in threads. He does run other game sites that you probably have no idea it's him.  He's a manipulator, pure and simple.

He has a good side and for about 4 months when the site was brought out of a languishing state through my addition there and a raised profile among developers, he used that good side.  Or maybe he simply used that personality that is good with me and not with others, I'm not sure anymore. In the end, he forced me to leave by telling me he wanted a unified opinion on the main page. In other words, he wanted the rest of us to act like what he said was true, when in reality he is often so far off the mark even a newbie would know he's speaking untruths. Steve Erhardt left after having enough of his shenanigans (Steve started EA with Phil).

Others can likely add more. Those things that Phil does there are not all that they appear to be. He does a lot of strange things and I began to question after leaving if he has a double personality because it's just so strange. I think his gaming experience begins with Quake. He's no long time gamer nor a hardcore gamer.  He's a guy that likes rumors and he got lucky with the host he has. His comments always show his lack of understanding of the game industry. He says things just to say them and to piss people off.

Finally, I would have had no problem with his reason for making me leave if he had stuck to them. But just last week, one of his guys disagreed with him violently right on the main page. The exact thing I was told NOT to do. There is no consistency with him. Phil wanted me out because I had a lot of good things to say and people enjoyed that. He became part of a team instead of a star and it wasn't what he wanted. He needs to get attention and my guess is that's the only reason Evil Avatar exists today. It's there so that Philip Hansen can get attention.

Read what I've written at OGV and decide for yourself if my ideas and work there would stand up alongside his. I think it's well-reasoned and thoughtful.  A lot of people agreed. It provided a good counterpoint to his often off-the-mark ramblings. It made for good reading. That's all lost on him.
#15 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-06-27 19:02:44
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Something tells me nonuts2lick may have been a fat white guy, if what Dave says is true.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#16 by "Desiato"
2000-06-27 19:06:27
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com
With that comment and his "burn-your-retina-site-design" he implemented a while ago -- I guess I'm better off not going there anymore.

*click*

"Delete Favorite?"

*click*

Done.

Good riddance.

I'm glad this came out. I bet (and I'm sure a lot of people will agree) that he and Texas Martini Foundation had a *lot* in common. (ie..the same person.)

I enjoyed the early days, but now -- what is the difference between his page and one of the Planet sites? (Besides writing style.)

Guess that email exchange shows it all.

Desiato
#17 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-06-27 19:18:02
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#16</b> "Desiato" wrote -
<QUOTE>

With that comment and his "burn-your-retina-site-design" he implemented a while ago -- I guess I'm better off not going there anymore.

*click*

"Delete Favorite?"

*click*

Done.

Good riddance.

I'm glad this came out. I bet (and I'm sure a lot of people will agree) that he and Texas Martini Foundation had a *lot* in common. (ie..the same person.)

I enjoyed the early days, but now -- what is the difference between his page and one of the Planet sites? (Besides writing style.)

Guess that email exchange shows it all.

Desiato </QUOTE>


!!!!
Hehe, I'm sure he'll produce another classic Pure Evil that'll be worth reading tonight, but after that, I believe it'll be time for everyone to start saying "good riddance". <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#18 by "Reuben Rosa"
2000-06-27 20:10:36
Reuben@digink.com http://www.digink.com
Now this is not suprising at all.
About 2-3 months ago.. when this whole Pissy fit diatribe occured with Lith and Epic.. and
folks were getting angry and I would say about 90% of the support was teetering on Epic's side..

I sent and email to Jason Hall.. Basically asking him to be careful with how he worded his plan updates because "even if he wasn't trying to cause problems" it was ticking lots of fans off.

He discussed it with me.. and thankfully about 2 plan updates later.. He dropped it. And the issue went away.

Jason.. I am EvilAsh who sent you that email several times. I didn't spam him I just thought I could give him  a different perspective on the situation and why some folks would get angry.

We were courteous and respectful in the email to each other. As adults should be.

Around the same time I was a regular reader of Evil Avatar. And just like how I will point the illogic of Some of Planetcrap's topics or slants.. I did the same with Evil Avatar.

He got very angry. I was banned.. Then later re-instated when we agreed to disagree.. or so I thought.

Also I enjoyed discussing with Steve And Dave on variou subjects. The discussions were lots of fun and always were fruitful.

Then.. Evil Avatar all of a sudden seemingly lost any shred of common sense and decencey.

He mocked Steve Erhardt when reveling in the folding of Pumpkin Studios..basically daring Steve to react to his statements.

I re-call His words were to the effect..

"I know Steve reviewed glowingly Warzone 2100 But the game stinks... and it couldn't have happened to a better group of guys! HaHA"

some nonsense like that.

This was after Evil Avatar basically attempted to censor Dave's Article and as Dave said.. He deleted Steve's,Dave's, My and many other posts that pointed out the truth and the flaws in his nasty PURE evil.

Many readers of his site.. Say its great he says it like it is.. In his own distored view.

Not the reality of the situation.

That's not Journalism.. its the basest form of trash tabloadism. And that's what Evilavatar.com has degenerated into.

I am glad Dave and Steve have moved on.. hopefully more readers will realise that Ogv.gamestats.com  is a better place to discuss various and views about the Gaming Industrty.

Instead of getting a distorted illogical nasty slant with no regard for one's readers and the companies one is discussing.
#19 by "Andy"
2000-06-27 20:14:14
andy@planetcrap.com
This bit of the topic should have been written differently:
<quote>
My reason for posting them is, primarily, that I don't like Evil Avatar, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise.
</quote>
That implies that I wouldn't have posted the e-mails if they had been from someone else. I would have, especially if I knew of that person harassing people in the past.

When I wrote that part of the topic, my intention was simply to make it clear that I have a personal dislike for Evil Avatar. I ended up saying pretty much the opposite of what I meant.

Apologies for any confusion.
#20 by "Reuben Rosa"
2000-06-27 20:23:22
Reuben@digink.com http://www.digink.com
Good to see you clarified that.

I personally don't have a problem with you OUTING Phil.. eventually it would have come out anyway.. Better now then later before his little rant page became too popular and folks actually believed his every word.

Which as I said is the problem with much of the internet and why ,Andy your site could be a whole lot more.... Respected and better to read if you carefully of the words you were going to use when writing a Crapitorial.

I always try and look at things from both sides. Because if your not careful with your words.. folks will miscontrue them and you will be subject to much derision.

Basically I am saying.. You can and should be better than Evil Avatar.

Its not that hard.. I know 10 year olds that are more lucid and mature than Phil.

You should be able to blow him Away.
#21 by "flamethrower"
2000-06-27 20:24:52
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
Don't like EA? What's the alternative?

Bluesnews? Shugga Shack? <i>Redwood?</i>

Simple fact of the matter is you get game news and evil comments there. The forums have a lower signal-to-noise ratio than PlanetCrap, fewer trolls, more developers, more topics and (usually) more insight.

Get the news, and opinion, and a coffee. Don't like it? Go to an in-pocket site. You know. <i>The rest</i>.


Besides, <i>since when</i> did we start being in the least bit sympathetic to that fucking <b>cunt</b> Jason Hall? Do I really need to remind you, <b>THE BLOOD 2 MISSION PACK</b>. What was it? Six shit levels and an unused monster left of from the B2 install? How about the abandonment of Blood 2 just to make sure things like CTF, Bots, and BUGS never got fixed. What about the patch?

Evil Avatar doesn't try to take dollars, pounds, or lira from your pockets. Don't like EA? Simply go! It was free to visit and it's the same price to leave. Jason Hall charges for absolute shit. Fuck him, if I'd have had the energy to write him a mail I'd have used every swearword, foul comparision, and derision in my library of filth. Because he deserves it.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#22 by "Reuben Rosa"
2000-06-27 20:35:31
Reuben@digink.com http://www.digink.com
Shows you haven't gone to OGV.
FlameThrower.

Better writing more logic.. and better discussions.

Just as I explained yes developors show up at EA doesn't mean he is validated for his stupidity.

I guarantee 90% of the reason they do post there is because they have to respond to the stupidity issued forth on the site.. And they know its popular.

Any logical person would be worried about a popular paper that was influencing thousands and thousands with BAD INFORMATION.

Wouldn't you would be worried?

As to the rest of your foolish comments..
PUHLEAZe. Its obvious you haven't dealt with Jason.
IF you have you wouldn't be so derogatory.
#23 by "Cyb"
2000-06-27 20:35:37
cyb@frad.org http://cyb.alkali.org
<b>#21</b> "flamethrower" wrote...
<QUOTE>
Besides, <I>since when</I> did we start being in the least bit sympathetic to that fucking <B>cunt</B> Jason Hall? Do I really need to remind you, <B>THE BLOOD 2 MISSION PACK</B>. What was it? Six shit levels and an unused monster left of from the B2 install? How about the abandonment of Blood 2 just to make sure things like CTF, Bots, and BUGS never got fixed. What about the patch?

Evil Avatar doesn't try to take dollars, pounds, or lira from your pockets. Don't like EA? Simply go! It was free to visit and it's the same price to leave. Jason Hall charges for absolute shit. Fuck him, if I'd have had the energy to write him a mail I'd have used every swearword, foul comparision, and derision in my library of filth. Because he deserves it.
</QUOTE>

Blood2 wasn't bug fixed because no one bought the damn thing.  Of course that doesn't excuse how crappy it was, but I'm sure if more people had bought it then it would have gotten fixed...right?  Then again more people would have bought it if it hadn't been so buggy, so who knows.

Besides, you can always return games to the store and get something better.
#24 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-06-27 20:42:22
rhiggi@home.com
<b>#20</b> "Reuben Rosa" wrote...
<QUOTE>

Which as I said is the problem with much of the internet and why ,Andy <b>your site</b> could be a whole lot more.... Respected and better to read <b>if you carefully of the words you were going to use</b> when writing a Crapitorial.

</QUOTE>

Some men you just can't reach.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#25 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-06-27 20:47:55
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
He revelled in Pumpkin closing ?


wtf ?

Warzone 2100 was a fucking great game, the UPDATES to the game fixed minor issues _and added a huge amount of content_ I know .. I was involved in the user feedback process. Pumpkin LISTENED to the buyers about things like AI problems, new units, new campaigns and _helped_ the community develop those wherever it could.  The patches added things like new borg types, hull types, maps, ai settings and behaviours.

that they closed was the loss of a _GOOD_ developer, how fucking callous to turn around and mock them.

Oh and if Andy hadnt posted those emails due to his 'history' Id sure as fuck have done it, as I dont have 'issues' with EA or Monolith.

Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#26 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-06-27 21:05:11
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
Flamethrower supports Evil Avatar?  Wow, what are the odds?!
#27 by "Jeff"
2000-06-27 21:08:58
jeffmill@bellsouth.net
Andy:

It was the sense that you'd done this update entirely out of spite that pissed me off. This is a legitimate story, though I think it would have been better with the background supplied by others in the original update. Glad you posted the clarification.
#28 by "Dave Long"
2000-06-27 21:10:40
ogv@gamestats.com http://ogv.gamestats.com/
Here's the Evil Avatar post in question on Pumpkin Studios closing...  check fast, because if he reads this site at all, he may kill it in his database.

http://www.evilavatar.com/EA/News/M6724/default.htm
#29 by "Diseased"
2000-06-27 21:11:31
diseasedanimal@yahoo.com
EA is worthless.  Jason Hall is a CEO.  Not a cunt, not a gamer, not some bleeding- heart patch monkey.  He runs a company, and his responsiblities end at giving them a good bottom line.  Social resonsibility rarely fits in there.  You can't blame him for not giving you what you want in a product you would pay for.  Just don't make it some kind of crusade for character assassinaton to try and talk as much shit as you can about the guy.  Chances are, if you are heading up a company that at the time has two to three games to its name-- none selling all that well, you wouldn't exactly put your resources into supporting an unpopular game.  They moved on, and understandably so.  If Jason Hall hyped the hell out of the game to the point of creating huge expectation out of it and making you buy Blood 2, and then disappointing you with it by NOT delivering on its
promises, then I suppose you can blame him.  But he made no such promises and you bought the game and didn't like it or its support.  

Tough fucking shit. Quit crying like a little bitch about it.

I think Jason should have refrained from posting pics of himself pumping iron.  A bunch of small-dicked morons obviously feel threatened by him (like good ol' Evil Avatar) and have to try to rub something obviously BEYOND HIS CONTROL in his face just so that they can have a little moral victory over him in their little minds.  

  
Yes, and if you couldn't tell I am pissed off.
#30 by "Dave Long"
2000-06-27 21:12:34
ogv@gamestats.com http://ogv.gamestats.com/
In that above thread, you can also see Charlie proudly wear his green Troll tag. ;)
#31 by "DanM"
2000-06-27 21:13:55
I'm curious. Why would Jason Hall send this
to PlanetCrap? Why not use a kill filter? Very
unprofessional to me on all sides. Wasting
bandwidth for a juvenile pissing match.
#32 by "JeffD"
2000-06-27 21:19:42
jefdaley@microsoft.com
This is unprofessional all around.

Evil's comments were unwarranted and rather pathetic.  Occasionally his site has some good discussion, but for the most part it's worthless.  I've always felt that Evil's partners in crime (Dave Long, Steve Ernhardt [sp] and lately Superunknown_GP) have had better and more insightful commentary than the Avatar himself.

Jason Hall's forwarding this on was rather unprofessional and smacks of an "Ooooh, I'll show you!" attitude.  So he got a flame mail, big deal.  I get it all the time, do I FW it on to websites.

Andy's posting of this story was also rather pointless, as I feel there's little journalistic worth to the story.  So a webmaster flamed a developer.  Big deal!  Evil isn't a journalist, like someone said earlier, he's just a tabloid monkey who likes to get attentionh, so it's not like this is a matter of EA having any kind of journalistic bias.  

All in all, the best reaction I can muster up is "Yawn, who cares."

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "Rantage"
2000-06-27 21:25:54
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#6</b> "asspennies" wrote...
<QUOTE>
Funny thing is, if this were done to John Romero, none of us would care.</QUOTE>

The other funny thing is, if these e-mails were allegedly sent by Blue none of us would believe it.

This is probably one of the worst topics/threads I've seen on here...for several reasons.

First, I agree with <b>#1</b> "Jeff":
<QUOTE>
Yeah. This update is miles above EA's conduct. Professional. About business. No personal rancor here. No sanctimonious, holier than thou, attitude.
</QUOTE>
It's incredibly petty.

Second, it's unsubstantiated.  I've been waiting for a while, watching for the Andy Crucifixion Team(TM) to show up and question the validity of the story.  Hitler diaries, anyone?  Anybody can forge e-mail transcripts, and after Andy's professed dislike for EA how can he be viewed as impartial?

Third, the content of the e-mails in question are pretty pathetic.  Say what you want about Jason Hall & his products, sending such crap to any developer is immature and disgraceful.  Bash the games or the engine in reviews and public forums if you feel the need, don't harass people personally.

Fourth, quoth Andy:
<QUOTE>And if any other developers, industry or community folk would like us to post nasty e-mails they've received from Evil Avatar, or anyone else for that matter, feel free to send them along...</QUOTE>
After reading <I>that</I> I'm wondering if Scott Miller perhaps isn't right about PC.  That's just <I>sad</I>.  What next, busty models?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-06-27 21:29:21
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>I think Jason should have refrained from posting pics of himself pumping iron. </quote>
Yeah, and of posting his girlfriend as well. It's all vaguely juvenile, a sort of "mine's bigger" contest.

Jason should be content with being in the "Top 5 All Tall Developer" list, along with Dave Perry, Steve Meretzky and a few others. I think he's around 6'6" or so, I think Dave Perry is closer to 6'7", which totally shocked me when I first met him.

I'm hoping to remain in the "All Tall Journalist" list, but those damn kids keep getting bigger and bigger.

As an aside, it seems like developers, like celebrities, tend to be rather... diminutive in stature. I think that would make a fascinating Crap editorial, how a Napolean complex fuels much message board and .plan file discussion...
#35 by "asspennies"
2000-06-27 21:30:03
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
<b>#29</b> "Diseased" wrote...
<QUOTE>You can't blame him for not giving you what you want in a product you would pay for. </QUOTE>

I don't understand.  I thought that's the one thing you *can* blame him for.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#36 by "Dave Long"
2000-06-27 21:33:00
ogv@gamestats.com http://ogv.gamestats.com/
I agree with you to a point JeffD. Evil takes on the illusion of journalist which causes many to take him and his cronies (formerly myself included) at face value. Some of us took that to mean we had responsibility for what we wrote. I find myself fighting with that responsibility every day at my own site. I may only get 100 people a day to stop by and have a look, but I think it's my job to represent the facts truthfully before putting in my 2 cents.

Evil Avatar (the man) on the other hand, will post things as fact or with little clarification. He also will send these kinds of e-mails to developers. I think the only thing this thread does and should do, is show some people that what he does IS tabloid journalism at best. It shows that he and the rest of his site shouldn't be taken seriously because you can't be sure what's real and what's not. After that you say "ok, I'll read it anyway" or "fuck him".  It's putting the truth out there for those that care to know.

I actually have more of a problem with the Pumpkin thing and the SSI fiasco than I have with him letting me go. Both of those issues showed that his reviews and his news are always in question and can't be trusted.
#37 by "Charlie Wiederhold"
2000-06-27 21:34:01
charliew@3drealms.com
<quote>In that above thread, you can also see Charlie proudly wear his green Troll tag. ;)</quote>

Not my best work in his forums. I much prefer the Ultima 9 conversations. :)

Unfortunately he gave me a "developer" tag when I was started agreeing with him in a few threads. I notice he gave SteveB a troll tag though, when did that happen?

I almost earned it back in the recent thread about the Build engine source code (which you can still find in the forum listing). Disagree with him and actually know what you are talking about and he'll call you a troll. :)

EA has never had the stomach to stand behind what he says, and never will. Oh well, life goes on. I doubt he'll respond on his page, though I do think this thread will only help to fuel his ego, even if a few comments piss him off at the same time.

Charlie Wiederhold
#38 by "Dave Long"
2000-06-27 21:38:02
ogv@gamestats.com http://ogv.gamestats.com/
I still say it's as much the programmer's fault as it was the designer's fault. =D

Ahhh... old wounds...
#39 by "Reuben Rosa"
2000-06-27 21:39:21
Reuben@digink.com http://www.digink.com
"Bwahahaha... it couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of guys. While I know that our own Steve Erhardt is a fan of Warzone 2100, I despised the product and I don't spare any love for anyone over at Pumpkin Studios either. Sometimes the system does work, and if you make a crappy product no one liked, then you go out of business. It isn't always true, but when it is, it is sweet. I like how they try to blame Eidos lack of faith in their next product on a "dwindling Playstation 1 market". Funny, I don't see the market dwindling that much consdiering it is the #1 console system in the US right now and I see about two dozen commercials every night for Playstation 1 games. I think that what was dwindling was Eidos faith that they could actually finish the product and that it would be any good when they were finished.

Good luck to everyone at Pumpkin Studios when they go to find a new job, perhaps next time they will try making Good games and they won't go out of business. "

EvilAvatar on March 14th the day after the announcement of the downing of Pumpkin.

In this same thread he went on to mock his readers and the fact that he deleted many of the posts that were critical of this petty obnoxious article.

Why people defend someone like him.. Is beyond me.
#40 by "Charlie Wiederhold"
2000-06-27 21:40:11
charliew@3drealms.com
<quote>As an aside, it seems like developers, like celebrities, tend to be rather... diminutive in stature. I think that would make a fascinating Crap editorial, how a Napolean complex fuels much message board and .plan file discussion...</quote>

I'm 6'3!!!

Keith Schuler here at 3DR is around 6'8, though he's smarter than the rest of us and doesn't post on message boards or .plan files. :)

Charlie Wiederhold
#41 by "Andy"
2000-06-27 21:40:51
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#37</b>, Charlie Wiederhold:
<QUOTE>
I doubt he'll respond on his page, though I do think this thread will only help to fuel his ego, even if a few comments piss him off at the same time.
</QUOTE>
Good, I hope it does. Ego is a weakness. The bigger his ego, the weaker he will be within himself, and the more his true character will show through.
#42 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-06-27 21:41:34
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>The forums have a lower signal-to-noise ratio than PlanetCrap, fewer trolls, more developers, more topics and (usually) more insight. </quote>
Insight? Oh please. I'd never claim to be the most insightful or dialed-in guy in the industry, but I stopped counting the number of times the "Pure Evil" topics were totally without merit because of a profound lack of understanding of the game industry. Totally basic stuff.

<quote>Evil Avatar doesn't try to take dollars, pounds, or lira from your pockets. Don't like EA? Simply go! </quote>
Using that criteria, all free websites are above any form of criticism. Groovy!

And you were saying saying what about Blues News, Sughashack, Redwood...?

Oh, and do you dig how he's pumping up referrals to compuexpert.com in the guise of a contest? Companies are (probably) supplying him free games to give away in his "Game Give Away" contests, and he's turning around and trying to make money by referring people to compuexpert.com. Check out the link.

http://www.commission-junction.com/track/track.dll?AID=171950&PID=386578&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecompuexpert%2Ecom

This would appear to be a for-profit contest. According to CompuExpert, "The compuexpert.com Affiliate Program is now open! Earn 10% commission for every sale that you refer to our site and 8 cents per click through."

So everyone that enters EA's contest earns him money. What a deal!
#43 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-06-27 21:46:34
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>I'm 6'3!!! </quote>
I knew that comment would drag the tall developers out of the woodworks, heh heh.

Maybe it's the journalists that are short?
#44 by "Paul"
2000-06-27 21:46:53
pab05f@mizzou.edu http://www.planethalflife.com/aerotic
There are people who do a good job bringing the news(bluesnews, voodooextreme, gamespy network, redwood(usually)) and then there are people who just want to get mentioned however they possibly can to fulfill their ego. I haven't met this Evil fellow, but it seems to be that he is quite immature.

If I were Jason Hall, I would just block his email address.

- Evil Paul
#45 by "Paul"
2000-06-27 21:52:25
pab05f@mizzou.edu http://www.planethalflife.com/aerotic
Steve:
I would click on the link, but if I do, that will earn him $.08 since I believe you posted the link to his account number. $.08 is more than I would like to give him. If it were $.02 I might click through. Maybe.

- Paul
#46 by "Twitch"
2000-06-27 21:54:19
twitch@gamepig.com http://www.gamepig.com
Sigh. What a cannibalistic "community" pc gaming can be.  Writers attacking developers. Developers attacking writers. Writers attacking each other.

I suppose it's inevitable though, once you get a "community" that is small enough to allow individual familiarity, yet distributed, to allow (relative) anonymity. It's a shame that too often on the net, courtesy is considered a weakness. Although the almost insane amount of hostility *can* be entertaining, at times :)
#47 by "Diseased"
2000-06-27 21:54:49
diseasedanimal@yahoo.com
#35, asspenies:

I knew I would have ot clarify that comment sooner or later.  I was pissed so I kind of went on and on.  Basically what i meant was, you can't blame them if you are the one deciding to buy their product.  It happens all the time that people aren't happy with what they pay money for.  Simply don't buy anything more from that company/ person, and if need be you can talk smack about the product here and there.  But sitting there continualy blasting JH isn't necessary nor helpful.
#48 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-06-27 21:56:32
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
Charlie :

Yeah, I agree ... threads like this, while I find them good because they reaffirm the reasons why I don't like Evil Avatar (and his kind), they DO serve to stroke their egos because they can sit back and say ...

"Wow, they started up a whole thread about something I said.  I truly AM evil!"

As opposed to just facing the fact that they're behaving like assholes ...


All :

And to those who think it was unprofessional of Andy or Jason to expose these emails from Evil Avatar ... are you also of the mind that the ION Storm emails shouldn't have been posted way back when?  I certainly hope so ...
#49 by "Jeff"
2000-06-27 22:00:38
jeffmill@bellsouth.net
The interesting story, to me, is that behind the scenes, EA has purposefully slanted his news coverage (or at least threatened to do so) because he didn't like the way a company treated him. That's something people should know.

The update - EA sends mean mail to developers - is petty by itself. As part of a greater pattern, it would work. Too bad the update wasn't about what's come out in the later posts.

I haven't been on the site, myself, in ages. I tried a bit ago, but it took 3 minutes to load on my T1 and when I searched the database, completely locked Netscape. What's the deal?
#50 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-06-27 22:02:10
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
ooh ooooh

can I join in ?


Im 6'5 and I _break_ the damn games :)



Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
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