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T O P I C
Get A Life!
March 26th 2003, 11:42 CET by deadlock

Sometimes I think that Edge's journalists read PlanetCrap. Every month there's an article about something that's cropped up here and I'm not just talking about news stuff. Occassionally, the more general games-related discussions we have turn up there in some form or another. Recent Edge articles have covered the validity of games as storytelling media, the role of women in the industry and their involvement in MMOGs and the relative merits of different game-design techniques. Even Derek Smart has added the weight of his Ph.D to Edge's pages.

This month's article, however, is particularly interesting because it covers something that crops up all too often on PlanetCrap: jadedness. The first paragraph reads:

The golden age has passed, all the genres have been discovered, and originality is at its lowest ebb for years. Or so say an increasing number of hardcore gamers who've become disillusioned by games in recent years. Edge's letters page is not the only place you'll find such sentiments. Game forums across the internet seem to be awash with similar comments left by a generation of enthusiasts bored with the current crop of videogames. Where did it all go wrong? Are these just the grievances of a subset of thirtysomething gamers suffering from a gaming crisis, or is there something truly rotten at the heart of the industry?

To put it into perspective, there have been some truly great (if not necessarily original) games released over the past year or so: Splinter Cell, Jak & Daxter, ICO, Ratchett & Clank, Unreal Tournament 2003 and Halo to name but the few that I can think of.

So what's your take? Are games becoming less and less innovative and interesting? Or are older gamers just cynical, jaded and possibly just a little snobbish? Or are gamers of a certain generation simply suffering froma simple case of too much to do, too little time? After all, the range of leisure activities available to people these days is unprecedented in history.
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#1 by Russ
2003-03-26 12:06:51
For me, it is definitely a case of too little time. After work, wife, and kids there isn't much left for gaming. I am also getting jaded as well in my old age. New games don't have the "wow" factor anymore like they did before. I hardly ever finish a game either.

There's two kinds of people in the world. People with guns and people who dig.
#2 by E-ph0nk
2003-03-26 12:46:24
http://www.electrophonk.be
idem...  Most of the people like us, who've 'seen it all' are those who complain, but I still hear younger kids/less game-freaks going "wooow" on everything that moves on screen...

*sigh*
#3 by Ashiran
2003-03-26 12:47:59
We are the wrong market. EOD!

"This is Planetcrap, where we nuke everything from orbit." - Bailey
#4 by Quad
2003-03-26 13:30:04
I stopped expecting true innovation and the wow-factor a while ago. Nothing new is being released, it's just becoming more and more polished.
At the moment, the only thing I play is UT2003.
#5 by Your Friend
2003-03-26 14:02:05

To put it into perspective, there have been some truly great (if not necessarily original) games released over the past year or so: Splinter Cell, Jak & Daxter, ICO, Ratchett & Clank, Unreal Tournament 2003 and Halo to name but the few that I can think of.


Please note: All of your example games, other than UT2k3, are console games.  Gaming is alive and well... PC gaming, on the other hand, is very nearly dead to me.  Sorry, but I really can only play so many WWII based shooters and I can only play so many near future or fantasy world RTS games.  

As with anything, there are exceptions to this, but they are very few and very far between on the PC.

Contrast this to consoles, where the fun never ends... Metroid Prime, Legend of Zelda, Mario, Pikmin, Halo, Jak and Daxter, Ico, Super Monkey Ball, Halo, Kung Fu Chaos, War of the Monsters, GTA3 (yeah the series started as PC titles, but it is primarily console now, with PC ports coming out like a year later), Contra Shatter Soldier, inumerable Gameboy Advance games, etc, etc, etc.

2000/XP is better than Win9x in every way.
#6 by Speed
2003-03-26 15:28:15
speed@crew.fragland.net http://www.fragland.net
I still from time to time get to see a game which surprises me, although it doesn't happen that often anymore as in the 90's.

I never said I was healthy
#7 by Trolly McTroll
2003-03-26 15:28:56
Console games are the new nazis

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - Wudi
#8 by Warren Marshall
2003-03-26 15:54:02
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
We're older.  That's the whole story.  Do we like the same movies or books as we did 10 years ago?  For the most part, no.  So why should we like the same games?

The problem is that, unlike movies or books, we're still buying the same games we bought 10 years ago and are wondering why they don't wow us like they used to.  If you think about that, it really makes little sense.

PC gaming is far from dead, but it does suffer from some problems that consoles don't.  The primary one being the hardware arms race.  Every new game that starts development is faced with a huge list of features they need to support or their game will be considered obsolete even before it ships.  And I'm not just talking about video cards here.

PC games also lack the wonder of the "black box" development environment.  Console games take more chances because, honestly, they have to.  The new Zelda game is a refreshing departure from the "realistic everything" schtick that we see in most games, but is that because the designer is a genius?  Partly.  But I feel that it's also because it's on a GameCube.  There's only so much they can do there.  Resident Evil Zero already covered the realistic environment angle and since you can only push the hardware so far, you're forced to think outside the box as a designer and come up with a unique hook for your game.

On the PC?  Hell, on average, two new video card generations will ship while you develop your game and you can easily outdo the poly/shiny/bumpy level of the games that came before you.  And that traps a lot of developers.

As a side note, I would like to point out that the patch free console zone is beginning to get violated.  With the advent of online gaming, games are now able to patch themselves ... and have started to do so.  It's not going to remain the stable wonderland we've all grown to know and love.  Since games can do it, why can't drivers be updated?  It's a slippery slope, lined with needles, and we're all going to be taking a ride.

I think both platforms (PC and consoles) have room for innovation and games continually come out on both that please me as a gamer.  I see no need to take sides or start stupid flame wars over it.

As I stated at the start of this, you're older.  Face it.  Of course you aren't going to be surprised as often as you were in the 90's or 80's.  Your mind is older, it's seen more and it's harder to please.

It would be interesting to get a first generation gamers response to this issue.  What does someone who just got a computer/console think of the gaming scene.  I'm willing to bet they're just as excited as you were in the 80's/90's.
#9 by Warren Marshall
2003-03-26 15:54:14
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Good God ...

What?
#10 by UncleJeet
2003-03-26 15:55:21
I still say that if Halo had been release as-is on the PC, we all would have griped about it endlessly.

Consoles wow easier because we don't expect very much out of them, maybe.  From your list, YF, I agree with  Zelda, Mario, Ico, Kung Fu Chaos, and GTA3 (kinda).  Pikmin just bored me to tears.  Jak and Daxter ruined what could have been a fun platformer by adding too many stupid elements, and combined that with mushy controls tied to exagerrated animations that just didn't feel "tight" at all.  I can't stand playing a platformer where it feels like I need to make my guy jump a few moments earlier than I should, just so the excessive cartoon run animation can cycle to the prepare to jump animation so it can cycle to the actual jump....then there's the landing, where it feels like I need to compensate for his "I landed, but I have to be ANIMATED about it" and end up falling off.  Halo - see above....going through the same levels over and over that were already repetative the first time through, thanks to stacking the same four rooms on top of each other.  It did have bump-mapping, though.  Oooh.  Monkey Ball - fun, but in small doses.  Very small.  Never played the other two.  GTA3 is great fun until you realize that the amazing, free-form, open gameplay consists entirely of "get car, do crime, get chased" and absolutely nothing else.

Right now I'm having a blast with Zelda.  I love my GC.  The last thing I played on the Xbox was Indiana Jones (highly underrated game, btw) - before that.....er....I couldn't even tell you.  I tried Xenosaga last night on the ps2....first time I've turned it on since Kingdom Hearts.  If the ps2 and its bevy of ghetto fans would just go away, I think I'd be a much less jaded gamer.

Bleh.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#11 by UncleJeet
2003-03-26 15:56:37
er, Halo - see above?  More like Halo - see other thread someplace.  I'm stupid.

Basically - Halo was cool because it was on the Xbox.  If the same game had been released, as is, on the PC instead....we'd all have been griping about it and hating it.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#12 by UncleJeet
2003-03-26 16:00:44
#8 - Warren:

"It would be interesting to get a first generation gamers response to this issue.  What does someone who just got a computer/console think of the gaming scene.  I'm willing to bet they're just as excited as you were in the 80's/90's."


Er, these people don't exist.  Everyone has been playing games since Pong....or at least, that's what everyone says.

My favorite thing through the years has been hearing people talk about how they played Akalabeth when it was originally released, because they are l33t d00d gamerz that have been around, ya dig?  It's amazing, though, how a game distributed in zip-lock bags with a run of maybe 100 copies, sold out of a small Computerland store in Texas managed to get in the hands of thousands of people that weren't even born yet.

Maybe Garriot really IS a genius!

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#13 by UncleJeet
2003-03-26 16:02:04
Holy shit.  I need more coffee....and I don't even drink coffee.  Ok, I'm heading to the coke machine, I promise.  I'll be semi-cogent soon.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#14 by mgns
2003-03-26 16:03:33
Metroid Prime was released over here in the old world last week, and I bought it yesterday. Even though we're in a serious crunch right now, it grabbed a hold of me and refuses to let go. Awesome game.

I'm really in-between on the control scheme however. It's not all that bad once you get used to it, but I can't help but long for the halo-controls. Pushing buttons to pitch your viewport isn't all that friendly once you've played halo, much less mouse-and-keyboard fps on your pc. Sure they wanted your right thumb free for jumping and what-not, but still. Also, first d-padding left and then L to scan is a bummer. With all the scanning going on, just having to use one button for it would've been great.

All in all, It would be cool to see how it would have played if the entire game was 3rd person - like when you're rolling around as a ball.

I'm really looking forward to Wind Waker. Nintendo should really get their act together - they're really ignoring the euro-market.

a silent moment
for the king of fools
he dies today
on a cross he made himself
#15 by Warren Marshall
2003-03-26 16:06:28
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Oh and I will say that I like the auto-jumping in Zelda.  Makes jumping areas/puzzles MUCH more tolerable.
#16 by UncleJeet
2003-03-26 16:07:45
I really liked Metroid Prime - for awhile.  Eventually it just got too damned boring.  I like either a mindless action game, or a story driven game.  What I don't like is just walking around and around and around, which is what Prime eventually turns into.

Sure, there are scannable objects that fill in some "story."  They don't count.  :)

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#17 by Greg
2003-03-26 16:18:33
#8 Warren Marshall

As a side note, I would like to point out that the patch free console zone is beginning to get violated.  With the advent of online gaming, games are now able to patch themselves ... and have started to do so.  It's not going to remain the stable wonderland we've all grown to know and love.  Since games can do it, why can't drivers be updated?  It's a slippery slope, lined with needles, and we're all going to be taking a ride.

I agree this is a bad thing. I think it was Charles who mentioned that Xbox executables couldn't be patched, but some games are doing just that? They need to strive for perfection before releasing the game, rather than pulling the old PC line. The onus lies in the hands of MS, Sony, and Nintendo to remain stringent in their approval process.

As for the drivers bit, I was under the impression that the newer consoles came with the OS (maybe just DC and XBox) on the disc, and could be updated that way. Of course they are unloaded when you switch games, so it isn't useful for existing games. Hopefully companies won't be tempted to try updating them with a patch, either.

blah blah bleh
#18 by Trolly McTroll
2003-03-26 16:22:07
Hell, on average, two new video card generations will ship while you develop your game and you can easily outdo the poly/shiny/bumpy level of the games that came before you.  And that traps a lot of developers.


Sounds a lot like Epic and 3DRealms here

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - Wudi
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
#19 by CheesyPoof
2003-03-26 16:30:22
Qarren
The problem is that, unlike movies or books, we're still buying the same games we bought 10 years ago and are wondering why they don't wow us like they used to.

I'll disagree with this.  In the past few years I have seen games made by adults, for adults.  A couple of quick examples are GTA3/VC and DX1/2 (you could probably throw NOLF into that too).  I'd imagine that we'll see this trend continue.

As to why are people so jaded?  If you do too much of something you burn yourself out.  I think it's as simple as that.  Games are evelountary, so if you do play every FPS/RTS/RPG or what not, they will feel very samey and not give you that wow factor everyone is clamoring for.  Play Doom, then nothing until Doom3 and you will be wowed.  Play Quake1, then HL, then Doom3 and you'll still be wowed, but not as much.  Play doom, doom2, quake, glquake, quake2, unreal, sin, ut, ss2, hl, tfc, cs, avp, thief, k:pc, thief2, dx, nolf, sof, tribes, sof2, gore, red faction, r6, ghost recon, rtcw, nolf2, moh:aa, q3, ut2k3, unreal2, bf1942, and you'll be jaded (did I miss any?).
#20 by Bezzy
2003-03-26 16:30:35
painberry@hotmail.com http://www.antifactory.org
I'm looking to independent games for fresh perspectives. There's still very few games, indie or not, that can make me think "maybe there is still hope for PC gaming?"

This happens to be one of them, but they're in very, very short supply.

I think PC gaming will struggle by, but not without some form of backlash at the constant stream of FPSRPGRTS. There IS an emerging market of jaded players, and they are likely to cling to any scrap of hope out there.

My only problem with Bezzy is, truly and honestly, about one third of his longer, passionate posts make no sense to me.  I don't necessarily agree or disagree, I just literally can't parse them.  - Hugin
#21 by CheesyPoof
2003-03-26 16:31:03
Whoops, that should be Warren.  Maybe Qarren can be your muslim name.
#22 by Warren Marshall
2003-03-26 16:36:09
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Qheesy
As to why are people so jaded?  If you do too much of something you burn yourself out.  I think it's as simple as that.  Games are evelountary, so if you do play every FPS/RTS/RPG or what not, they will feel very samey and not give you that wow factor everyone is clamoring for.  Play Doom, then nothing until Doom3 and you will be wowed.  Play Quake1, then HL, then Doom3 and you'll still be wowed, but not as much.  Play doom, doom2, quake, glquake, quake2, unreal, sin, ut, ss2, hl, tfc, cs, avp, thief, k:pc, thief2, dx, nolf, sof, tribes, sof2, gore, red faction, r6, ghost recon, rtcw, nolf2, moh:aa, q3, ut2k3, unreal2, bf1942, and you'll be jaded (did I miss any?).

Well said.  That's a large factor, to be sure.

Bezzy
I'm looking to independent games for fresh perspectives. There's still very few games, indie or not, that can make me think "maybe there is still hope for PC gaming?"

Indie games are a good place to look for fresh new ideas because they aren't hindered by the realities of larger game companies.  But even then, you get a lot of the same rehashing that people bash larger companies for.

One only has to cast a casual glance at the mod scene for any given game to see that lack of innovation doesn't start and stop with professional teams.
#23 by mgns
2003-03-26 16:41:34
The onus lies in the hands of MS, Sony, and Nintendo to remain stringent in their approval process.

And they will remain stringent - patching via (for example) Xbox live is not a viable business strategy unless a large percentage of the Xbox owners are Live-subscribers.

a silent moment
for the king of fools
he dies today
on a cross he made himself
#24 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-03-26 16:49:09
The new Zelda game is a refreshing departure from the "realistic everything"

Isn't this pretty much every GC game??

Since games can do it, why can't drivers be updated?

drivers are updated on consoles, this has been going on for a while now, they're just typically bundled on the game discs, so when you put in a new game it could be using new drivers and you'd never know it.

I agree that the precedent being set by microsoft with patching games is a very bad one, eventually all consoles will have harddrives and thus will be able to patch games, I would hate the console world to start turning out like the PC games world, negative day patches and such. It'll do more harm than good I'll bet.
#25 by Warren Marshall
2003-03-26 17:11:56
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Isn't this pretty much every GC game??

Well, as I said before, Resident Evil Zero.  It's about as realistic as you can get on that console, so it's nailed that angle.  So other games HAVE to diverge in order to be interesting.
#26 by VeeSPIKE
2003-03-26 17:17:23
And they will remain stringent - patching via (for example) Xbox live is not a viable business strategy unless a large percentage of the Xbox owners are Live-subscribers.


But it IS a viable strategy to drive people into Live subscriptions. And once that pathway is firmly established, the developers are going to make use of it more often.

The media doesn't educate, it sensationalizes. That's why there's no learning curve, just repeated bouts of gross stupidity. Bailey
#27 by UncleJeet
2003-03-26 17:18:39
How is RE:0 as "realistic" as you can get on the GC?

What can the ps2 do that the GC can't that give you more "realism"?  A lot of aliasing?

Bleh....the GC is just severely underrated because of the "kiddie" idea the sheep have gotten into their marketing driven heads.  Snap out of it!

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#28 by Warren Marshall
2003-03-26 17:21:48
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
How is RE:0 as "realistic" as you can get on the GC?

I don't see how you can get a more realistic looking world than the one shown in that game.  That's all I mean.
#29 by UncleJeet
2003-03-26 17:26:55
Oh, ok.  No argument there.  It was the " on that console" bit that threw me.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#30 by None-1a
2003-03-26 19:59:26
#20 by Bezzy
I'm looking to independent games for fresh perspectives. There's still very few games, indie or not, that can make me think "maybe there is still hope for PC gaming?"


How does rehashing gameplay from the 2d era constitute a 'fresh' perspective? Not that there's any thing wrong with the game or their not fun but reaching farther back then every one else doesn't make it fresh.
#31 by deadlock
2003-03-26 20:34:24
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Your Friend:
Please note: All of your example games, other than UT2k3, are console games.  Gaming is alive and well... PC gaming, on the other hand, is very nearly dead to me.  Sorry, but I really can only play so many WWII based shooters and I can only play so many near future or fantasy world RTS games.

This is true and I did mean to add the proviso that I no longer play PC games because I don't have the money to keep upgrading in order to play the latest, greatest. Add to that the fact that I've recently declared my love for dumb platformers (hence most of my examples, it seems) and there just aren't that many decent ones for the PC.

Greg:
As for the drivers bit, I was under the impression that the newer consoles came with the OS (maybe just DC and XBox) on the disc, and could be updated that way.

The DVD remote control that I bought for my PS2 (an official Sony RC) came with new DVD player software that lives on the memory card.

if you could just see the beauty
there's things i could never describe
#32 by Gunp01nt
2003-03-26 20:37:54
supersimon33@hotmail.com
commando dolphins

with any luck they can mount a gatling gun on each fin and teach the dolphin how to use them.

Yo mama's so fat, all the restaurants in town have signs that says: "Maximum Occupancy: 240 Patrons OR Yo Mama"
#33 by Bezzy
2003-03-26 21:20:33
painberry@hotmail.com http://www.antifactory.org
Warren
Indie games are a good place to look for fresh new ideas because they aren't hindered by the realities of larger game companies.  But even then, you get a lot of the same rehashing that people bash larger companies for.

One only has to cast a casual glance at the mod scene for any given game to see that lack of innovation doesn't start and stop with professional teams.

Stongly agree!! Am I allowed to be annoyed that people squander their freedom on yet another StarWars/realism mod? Meh. Up to them, I guess.

None-1a
How does rehashing gameplay from the 2d era constitute a 'fresh' perspective? Not that there's any thing wrong with the game or their not fun but reaching farther back then every one else doesn't make it fresh.

The game modes are definately conceptual rip-offs (Gigawing, Psyriad(??), Ikagura). The game in question, however, is good to site as an example of how mechanics without themes are still enjoyable. I just love its abstraction and decomposition of 2D scrollers into a fairly refined, unblemished form. Without any considerations of verisimilitude, it is free to explore its own inherent mechanical values. They present a game that works without having to worry about both its mechanics working AND being believable w.r.t. its theme. I find the lack of theme quite refreshing, personally. I'm not suggesting that it's "teh waev of the futur" anything, but it's a point of interest.

And I enjoy it on a visceral level, too.

My only problem with Bezzy is, truly and honestly, about one third of his longer, passionate posts make no sense to me.  I don't necessarily agree or disagree, I just literally can't parse them.  - Hugin
#34 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-03-26 21:22:58
erictcheng@hotmail.com
We need more T&A games!

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#35 by Squeaky
2003-03-26 21:24:41
#33:
I have no idea what the fuck you just wrote, but I think I agree...

"It is better to be considered a house cat and sit on the lap of pretty girls then to be feared as a tiger and hunted by men." --T. Takamatsu
DVDs
#36 by "ymous"
2003-03-26 22:01:29
verisimilitude is not really a word , is it?
#37 by mrbloo
2003-03-26 22:07:50
mrbloo2000@hotmail.com
Yup, it is.  Veri from 'truth' and similitude from 'monkey'.  I'll go and find a context in which to use it.
#38 by Trolly McTroll
2003-03-26 22:12:58
Truth Monkey?  




Cool!

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - Wudi
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
#39 by VeeSPIKE
2003-03-26 22:15:13
[url+http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030324-064259-1443r]These monkeys??[/url]

The media doesn't educate, it sensationalizes. That's why there's no learning curve, just repeated bouts of gross stupidity. Bailey
#40 by VeeSPIKE
2003-03-26 22:15:44
/urk!!



These monkeys??

The media doesn't educate, it sensationalizes. That's why there's no learning curve, just repeated bouts of gross stupidity. Bailey
#41 by Gunp01nt
2003-03-26 22:15:49
supersimon33@hotmail.com
[urk+12!

Yo mama's so fat, all the restaurants in town have signs that says: "Maximum Occupancy: 240 Patrons OR Yo Mama"
#42 by mrbloo
2003-03-26 22:28:47
mrbloo2000@hotmail.com
Aren't animals great!  Children could do the same thing though and they'd require less training.
#43 by Shadarr
2003-03-26 22:44:45
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Why not just line the Iraqi POWs up shoulder to shoulder and march them through suspected minefields?  Or is that against the Geneva Convention too?
#44 by mrbloo
2003-03-26 22:47:47
mrbloo2000@hotmail.com
Damned Genevans.  Those commies must want us to lose.
#45 by LPMiller
2003-03-26 23:00:59
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Well, it didn't seem to bother the Iranians when they roped and marched their children through Iraqi minefields during the 8 year war...so I assume it's ok.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#46 by MCorleone
2003-03-26 23:03:42
They like it, actually - It's a fun game for them.  The literal translation for their word for it is "Hey, may your foot be blown out!"

Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules.
#47 by "DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION"
2003-03-26 23:46:17
Well, it didn't seem to bother the Iranians when they roped and marched their children through Iraqi minefields during the 8 year war...so I assume it's ok.


ur mom sucks strange dicks for cheese money
#48 by Mank
2003-03-27 00:00:54
My experience:

My gaming experience started with the Atari2600 in the late 70's, and from there I got addicted to the arcades of the early 80's. After joining the military in 83, I started experimenting with the various new computers of the time(TRS-80, Apple-IIE...ect) and finally settled with the C-64. I remember around 84 or 85 the entire gaming market went thru a major glut as the Atari/Nintendo war took its toll. It was about this time that Dungeons and Dragons completely ruled my gaming existance with (3 day) weekend binges of nonstop role playing. I guess I was lucky to have an excellent DM who actually took the time to custom make his own modules. We'd wait weeks for Jeff to put a Dungeon together, because we knew it would be worth the wait. But, after close to a year of D&D, it began to lose its appeal, and I suspect like everything else, that too much of a good thing becomes bad after a while....no matter what it is.

For me, it's the "Been there done that" factor that sucks the life out of it all. The problem is that FPS multiplayer is still just that...nothing has changed over the course of the past few years. The gametypes are just more of the same....and simply making prettier graphics or throwing in new models doesnt really change anything....you still aim, click, shoot, bunnyhop, taunt, rinse, repeat.....bleh.

Gaming has always been about the interaction with other people for me, and I think that is a very important part of Gaming overall. Which is why games like Q1/2 did so well initially, because you could play thru the single player experience, and then jump online and share that great single player experience with others who also bought the game. Half Life is a Prime example of this.

I still get excited when I see or hear of game developers who are willing to try new things, and right now I'm really hoping that Savage will provide a fresh new gaming experience. Games like Thief, System Shock 2, Hitman 2, BF1942, all did, or are doing the right things in my opinion, as they offer fresh new approaches to how a FPS perspective game is to be played.

I place the blame on the industry for the lack of new and innovative gaming, the games are out there and being made I suspect....but with the way the system is setup, there is little or no hope that publishers are willing to take the financial risk of trying something new....and in the meantime we're stuck with what we get as a result.

"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
#49 by LPMiller
2003-03-27 00:11:54
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
ur mom sucks strange dicks for cheese money


So pay up already, bitch.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#50 by Your Friend
2003-03-27 00:37:05
What are the exchange rates on cheese money these days?

How many slices of Swiss could I get for a slice of American?

2000/XP is better than Win9x in every way.
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