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T O P I C
Life Is An Arcade
June 26th 2000, 10:52 CEST by andy

Did you know that GameSpy Industries make a "people-finding program that helps you set up and play computer games with people from around the world"?

Well actually, they make two of them...



See, that description might sound a lot like the GameSpy 3D server browser, but it is in fact taken from the homepage of GSI's new software product, GameSpy Arcade. The blurb goes on:

GameSpy Arcade matches people with each other and the PC games they want to play.

It's a starting point for multiplayer "peer-to-peer" games -- that is to say, real-time strategy games, like board games or sports games, that have a set number of players as well as a start and a conclusion, games where everyone joins the server at the same time.

Arcade also supports multiplayer dedicated-server games, including popular titles like Quake, Half-Life and Unreal Tournament; these games allow players to join in on the action at any time.

GameSpy Arcade helps you find the games, find your friends and get things started.

That's the company line, but let's turn it around and look at things from the angle of someone who has paid to register GameSpy 3D. Although it is mentioned almost only in passing, GameSpy Arcade does offer browsing for dedicated servers, so you could argue that far from being a new program, it's really just a fancy new GameSpy 3D upgrade.

With Aracde having the same basic functionality as its predecessor, but with extra features, it seems unlikely that GameSpy 3D will continue to be actively supported. Why would GSI invest time and resources in supporting an old product, when they will no doubt be keen to promote and sell their new one? The only reason would be because it's the Right Thing To Do, and therefore -- I think it's fair to say -- somewhat out of character.

So is GameSpy 3D going to be abandoned? And more importantly, what about people who registered it so they could "enjoy a lifetime of great gameplay for only $20", according to the order page? Will they have to hand over another $20 to register Arcade?

We couldn't get any official response from the boys at GSI which suggests, at least, the decision has not yet been made. So if you've got a GameSpy 3D registration and you think you should be entitled to a free or discounted upgrade to what may be its replacement, here's your chance to let your voice be heard...

C O M M E N T S
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#1 by "godZero"
2000-06-26 10:57:06
godzero@gmx.de
got another one?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-06-26 10:58:24
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
Ahh ... this actually clears it up a little for me ... at E3 they were advertising GameSpy Arcade, but we really couldn't figure out what the hell it was.  :)
#3 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-06-26 10:59:10
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
Damn ... 1 minute too late ... I was almost able to stop the stupidity.
#4 by "godZero"
2000-06-26 11:01:14
godzero@gmx.de
hehe:-)
stupidity? where's your sense of humor?
i had nothing to say right now, but i just happened to be there and couldn't resist...<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#5 by "godZero"
2000-06-26 11:04:00
godzero@gmx.de
Andy, are you shure they didn't just change the name of their product?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#6 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-06-26 11:04:33
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
Sense of humor?  I don't have any left relating to this "First Post!" crap ...
#7 by "godZero"
2000-06-26 11:08:36
godzero@gmx.de
c'mon, everyone likes "first post"... :-))<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#8 by "godZero"
2000-06-26 11:09:30
godzero@gmx.de
by the way, "first post fetishists" might be a good topic...<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#9 by "Andy"
2000-06-26 11:09:39
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#5</b>, godZero:
<QUOTE>
Andy, are you shure they didn't just change the name of their product?
</QUOTE>
Yes. It's a separate product.
#10 by "runab0ut"
2000-06-26 11:12:26
runabout@crosswinds.net
2 products that just do the same thing... hmmm...

its just their way of hawking money from gamers... actually, GSArcade could be much of a "mainstream" server browser as GS3D just mostlly caters to FPS and other action genre.

GS Arcade is maybe a server browser for your grandfather's chessgame and backgammon!

=P
#11 by "Apache"
2000-06-26 11:15:27
so.... what's the difference between this and gamespy? does it have a chat program like EGN or something...?

I'm confused.
#12 by "Andy"
2000-06-26 11:18:48
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#10</b>, runab0ut:
<QUOTE>
GS Arcade is maybe a server browser for your grandfather's chessgame and backgammon!
</QUOTE>
When I first read about it a few weeks ago, I thought it was designed solely for one-to-one games like that. But no -- it supports dedicated servers as well. (For example, Quake III Arena support is listed on the site.)
#13 by "runab0ut"
2000-06-26 11:25:46
runabout@crosswinds.net
nuthing just another server browser for ppl to download and pay for! =P
#14 by "runab0ut"
2000-06-26 11:29:42
runabout@crosswinds.net
but why the heck are they making another program if they just have GS3D just doing the same thing?!?

is it that theyre somehow going to migrate GS3d users to arcade or something... i dont see the point!

its either, phase out GS3D or upgrade GS3D!

im sure another 20 bucks for that stuff! heh.
#15 by "godZero"
2000-06-26 11:36:09
godzero@gmx.de
gameSpy arcade has chat, something like ICQ, discussion forums access and so on. does gameSpy3d have these features? i'm not a user, so i really don't know, but it might be the difference between the two<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#16 by "I'm The Keymaster"
2000-06-26 11:44:08
I'mTheKeymaster http://I'mTheKeymaster
I'm guessing its just a name change.  Gamespy wasn't always Gamespy remember?  Unless I'm mistaken (I probably am so don't believe this until someone confirms it) I believe it started out as Quakespy then they changed it to Gamespy cause the new name described the product better (what with all the support for games other than quake).

Ah before I forget, I would just like you all to remember, IIIII'm The Keymaster [i'll send you a million dollars if you know what that line is from]

PS.  by 'million dollars' i mean 'packetz from my oc-192 ruteshellz0r'
#17 by "I'm The Keymaster"
2000-06-26 11:48:02
I'mTheKeymaster http://I'mTheKeymaster
wow not only am I the keymaster but i'm retarded:

it seems like message number 12 explicitly states that gamespy arcade is separate product from gs3d.  Hmm, all these years jello laced with LSD and Clorox and only now do i see the side effects!
#18 by "godZero"
2000-06-26 11:55:46
godzero@gmx.de
<QUOTE>wow not only am I the keymaster but i'm retarded:

</QUOTE>

lol<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#19 by "Joost Schuur"
2000-06-26 12:06:53
jschuur@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
I think I can comment on this thread for once.

Just to clarify: GameSpy 3D and GameSpy Arcade are 2 separate products here at GameSpy with 2 distinct audiances: hardcore gamers and a broader, more casual group of gamers, who not only enjoy peer to peer style titles, but also dabble in the kind of 3D Action titles that have typically been supported by GameSpy 3D.

GameSpy Arcade is the lobby driven, player matchmaking service that we showed at our E3 booth with built in chat, instant messaging, web communities and file downloads, fully skinable and suitable for OEM bundling deals and on game CDs. We like to think of it as a 'gamer's desktop. Arcade takes a radically new approach at player matchmaking and offers support for titles never possible with 3D. Details are at

http://www.gamespyarcade.com

We definately intend to want to continue to support major upcoming 3D shooter titles with GameSpy 3D. The (imminent) release of Arcade does not mean the end of the developement or support for GameSpy 3D.

Currently Arcade is in closed beta testing, with a public beta planned for the end of the month. Once we decide to add registered only features into Arcade, prior registered users of GameSpy 3D will very likely be 'grandfathered' in and receive valid registrations for Arcade (but not new registered users of GameSpy 3D after that).

There's actually a third product series available here at GameSpy: The SDKs that we used to produce GameSpy Arcade. Developers can implement (and are implementing already) the same kind of functionality that Arcade offers directly into their game: In game lobbies, server browsing, instant messaging, persistant storage, CD key authentication etc. All our code is next generation compatible (4x4 Evolution by Terminal Reality uses it to play PC vs. Dreacast e.g.) Further info can be obtained at:

http://developer.gamespy.com

Game developers wishing to discuss details are welcome to contact me on this.

Sorry for the blatant advertising, but Andy, if you'd bothered to ask I would have been happy to deliver you details ;)

Joost Schuur
Developer Relations, GameSpy Industries

PS: Yes, this does mean my title/job at GameSpy changed.
#20 by "Andy"
2000-06-26 12:32:34
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#19</b>, Joost Schuur:
<QUOTE>
Sorry for the blatant advertising, but Andy, if you'd bothered to ask I would have been happy to deliver you details ;)
</QUOTE>
Could you please read the full topic in future? Here:
<quote>
We couldn't get any official response from the boys at GSI
</quote>
If you want future GSI topics to include GSI's side of the story, then maybe GSI should respond to our enquiries?
#21 by "Desiato"
2000-06-26 12:42:27
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
I wish GSI every success in trying to desperately raise funds to cover FTP sites that were once provided for free by CDROM.COM...

*snicker*


Desiato

(As an owner of the original Gamespy, I don't think I'll bother with this one...besides..I haven't used Gamespy in months...)
#22 by "RzE"
2000-06-26 13:00:06
rze@counter-strike.net http://csnation.counter-strike.net
I had a chance to test Arcade, and i can see clearly that it in no way replaces GameSpy 3d.. For once I'm siding with GSI!
#23 by "Kerbuffel"
2000-06-26 14:40:32
kerbuffel@mindspring.com
<quote>If you want future GSI topics to include GSI's side of the story, then maybe GSI should respond to our enquiries? </quote>

What contact didja use?  Maybe you got a defunct email addy or somethin'.

I've gotten a chance to play with Gamespy Arcade... it's like an AOLer's Gamespy. :) I supports a bunch of games that putting into GS would be silly: chess, backgammon, and a whole lot of RTS games.  It's got a built in web browser and chat thingie, which is kinda neat, but this would all be a waste to put into gamespy, where people just want to "get it on with the killing."

Andy, are you someone "who has paid to register GameSpy 3D"?  :)  

.k.
#24 by "Andy"
2000-06-26 14:50:04
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#23</b>, Kerbuffel:
<QUOTE>
What contact didja use? Maybe you got a defunct email addy or somethin'.
</QUOTE>
I wrote to the address on the Arcade site (webmaster@gamespyarcade.com) asking who I should contact with enquiries. I also wrote to someone specific, who discussed it with me but wouldn't give any official response.
<QUOTE>
Andy, are you someone "who has paid to register GameSpy 3D"? :)
</QUOTE>
Why, would this make me biased or something?
#25 by "Diseased"
2000-06-26 15:02:19
diseasedanimal@yahoo.com
Hey, I'm the Keymaster is from Ghostbusters.  When's the check gonna arrive?

And on topic....well, from what I've heard they're two products that are different enough to sell individually, even if it is for the most part only an interface change.  It's typical business, take an old product's winning idea, update and repackage it, sell it seperately.  I'm cool with it though.  Gamespy has given me hours of solid gaming fun, and I haven't even registered it.
#26 by "Desiato"
2000-06-26 15:32:35
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com
It's funny, the Gamespy registration comment above..

I registered before Planetquake decided to switch their format over to "Windows background default colors" and move all the good indexes to sub-legible font sizes.

Grr.

I remember trying to actually get a T-Shirt from them (I still have a screen cap of the order form) and then calling their incompetent support line to see WTF was up. Some incoherent chick answered the line and wasn't able to help.

Okay....whatever. This was a long time ago, and I really don't care now -- seeing the direction that they've taken is one that I don't really sympathize with. But I'm a contrarian, so that isn't too suprising.

Gamespy Arcade is just a yellow-mustard, watered-down McGaming browser for AOLer's and any other market segment that isn't wise to the GSI hype machine, or the green fedora empire.

But -- seeing how keys are usually circulated within a day of public release, I doubt that they're going to see the revenue that they are expecting. Oh well -- problem with becoming "big", people find it easier to rationalize ripping them off. Sad but true.

Keep reaching for the common denominator -- but don't expect to be treated the same when you finally expand to every possible market niche.

Desiato
#27 by "EricFate"
2000-06-26 16:22:55
ericfate@mindspring.com
I'm guessing its just a name change. Gamespy wasn't always Gamespy remember? Unless I'm mistaken (I probably am so don't believe this until someone confirms it) I believe it started out as Quakespy then they changed it to Gamespy cause the new name described the product better (what with all the support for games other than quake).</quote>

Yep, it was originally just QuakeSpy.  I think I still have an original install of it on a backup somewhere.
#28 by "Allison"
2000-06-26 16:44:37
axe1a@1nol.com
blah, just use the in-game browsers.  that's what I always do.  gamespy is a waste, in my opinion.  I've never had too much patience with the gamespy software, and I'm too cheap to pay for something that many games (well, recent ones, anyway) give out for free.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#29 by "asspennies"
2000-06-26 16:56:13
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
God I love the random quotes.  This one came up from Seth:

"She wasn't having to suck off 40 year old overweight guys to feed her children for a few more days and hating every moment of it."

Great quote, right?  Problem is, it wasn't from Seth.  He was quoting someone.

Still, that's a hell of a line to pick.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#30 by "BloodKnight"
2000-06-26 17:01:23
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
I actually did some testing with the Gamespy Arcade (when I used to be part of the GSN on PKP), and I will say this, Gamespy Arcade is meant for those other games like motocross madness, and age of empires.  Its very much the program for 'left overs' or something you just couldn't do on Gamespy 3D.  Gamespy 3D is a browser for dedicated servers, and its more for the hardcore type.  Gamespy Arcade is more like Mplayer, with the little features like instant messaging and stuff, except it uses games that people actually play (like AOE), and unlike Mplayer, it doesn't crash hardly.  Unless in GSA you can connect to popular games like Half-Life, UT, Q3A, and others that use Gamespy 3D, GSA isn't going to replace GS3D.
#31 by "Andy"
2000-06-26 17:04:03
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#30</b>, BloodKnight:
<QUOTE>
Unless in GSA you can connect to popular games like Half-Life, UT, Q3A, and others that use Gamespy 3D, GSA isn't going to replace GS3D.
</QUOTE>
According to the Arcade web site, you can.
#32 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-06-26 17:15:53
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
#28:<quote>blah, just use the in-game browsers. that's what I always do. gamespy is a waste, in my opinion. I've never had too much patience with the gamespy software, and I'm too cheap to pay for something that many games (well, recent ones, anyway) give out for free. </quote>

Well, some of us registered GameSpy (or QuakeSpy) <i>before</i> game's had anything decently resembling an in-game browser. Then again, the only one I've seen so far worth using is UT's in-game browser, and that has more to do with the amount of time it takes to load up UT than anything else. Half-life's in-game browser has always been a bit on the buggy side (there's always a chance that you'll get an error using the in-game browser that you won't get if you just type connect xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx in the console or use GameSpy, though it's gotten better in some of the patches for HL) and Q3's browser is missing a lot of the functionality (and GameSpy's add-on that adds most of those features to Q3's browser is buggy).

#23:<quote>I supports a bunch of games that putting into GS would be silly: chess, backgammon, and a whole lot of RTS games.</quote>

Well, gee, I'd really like to see support for RTS games in GameSpy. Call me crazy, but I think I have more RTS games than FPS games anyway. The only case in which I'd rather use the company's server browsers for RTS games would be for Blizzard's games, which use the Battle.net interface that I became very familiar with during a long stint with Diablo.

-PainKilleR-[CE]
#33 by "BloodKnight"
2000-06-26 17:23:18
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>#31</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>
<quote>
Unless in GSA you can connect to popular games like
Half-Life, UT, Q3A, and others that use Gamespy 3D, GSA isn't going to replace
GS3D.
</quote>
According to the Arcade web site, you can.
</QUOTE>

That is not good at all!  Great, maybe GSA will replace Gamespy 3D.  I really don't see the point of doing Gamespy 3D no more, if it supports the games that GS3D does, except only better.  Like anti-virus programs, they all do the same thing, but one of them is usually better then the other.  Same scenario here, GSA could do what Gamespy 3D could do, but better.  This isn't looking good at all.  But then again, GSA is a much better interface, look, feel, etc, then Gamespy 3D, so it might not all bad, unless you forked 20 bucks out and registered Gamespy 3D.  Oh well, can't wait for it, because it does really kick ass.

It is odd though that it supported the same games as Gamespy 3D, in the beta only thing it did support from 3D was Rogue Spear, not Q3 or UT and others.
#34 by "Rantage"
2000-06-26 17:27:43
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#7</b> "godZero" wrote...
<QUOTE>c'mon, everyone likes "first post"... :-))</QUOTE>

No we don't.  We can go to Slashdot for that.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#35 by "Rantage"
2000-06-26 17:30:46
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#19</b> "Joost Schuur" wrote...
<QUOTE>
Just to clarify: GameSpy 3D and GameSpy Arcade are 2 separate products here at GameSpy with 2 distinct audiances: hardcore gamers and a broader, more casual group of gamers, who not only enjoy peer to peer style titles, but also dabble in the kind of 3D Action titles that have typically been supported by GameSpy 3D.
</QUOTE>

"Hardcore gamers."

Definition, please, GSI?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#36 by "Rantage"
2000-06-26 17:36:30
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#32</b> "PainKilleR-[CE]" wrote...
<QUOTE>
Well, some of us registered GameSpy (or QuakeSpy) before game's had anything decently resembling an in-game browser. Then again, the only one I've seen so far worth using is UT's in-game browser, and that has more to do with the amount of time it takes to load up UT than anything else.</QUOTE>

Tribe's in-game browser isn't too shabby; that's the game I play most and as a result I haven't had a need (or desire) to use McGameSpy for months....

Now here's my question: have the majority of game developers producing multiplayer titles avoided building robust game-browsers into their software because <B>a)</B> it's too hard, <B>b)</B> they know GSI will eventually do it or <B>c)</B> GSI software has allowed their games to be easily found and played in the past -- thus leading to the game's success -- and they don't want to put them out of business?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#37 by "BloodKnight"
2000-06-26 18:19:34
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>#35</b> "Rantage" wrote...
<QUOTE>"Hardcore gamers."

Definition, please, GSI?</QUOTE>

A gamer whom lost a lot of things in life, including social, family, friends, and also has body disorders because of it :)  That's my defination!
#38 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-06-26 18:47:29
rhiggi@home.com
<b>#7</b> "godZero" wrote...
<QUOTE>

c'mon, everyone likes "first post"... :-))</QUOTE>

They only say that when they're not first :)

V<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#39 by "Rantage"
2000-06-26 19:02:04
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#37</b> "BloodKnight" wrote...
<QUOTE>
A gamer whom lost a lot of things in life, including social, family, friends, and also has body disorders because of it :)
</QUOTE>

...or just body <I>odors</I>... :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#40 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-06-26 19:08:33
rhiggi@home.com
Hi Guys, I just got bit by a worm sent by a coworker.  If I send you any email, delete it :)

V

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#41 by "Stallion"
2000-06-26 19:28:39
clambert@gamespy.com http://www.planetunreal.com
I just want to stick in a few comments which are noticed if you've ever actually used the program.

GameSpy Arcade initially did <b>not</b> support titles which were supported in GameSpy3D.

IMO, GSA is aimed at the mainstream gaming crowd. Those who don't know what packet loss is...those who never heard of a rocket jump...and those who've never read a PlanetCrap thread will be using the program. Why should they be forced to download an entirely seperate program just to start up a quick game of Unreal?

GSA's support of GS3D titles is limited, and AFAIK, there is no filtering/tab/favorites support. Its not a replacement! If you only want to play on UT InstaGib servers running Face or LavaGiant, GameSpy Arcade won't help you.

Yes, Quake and Unreal are supported, but not to the extent that GS3D supports them because it doesn't make sense.

Argh, I'm rambling.

Don't take me on my word though -- the release should be coming within 24 hours anyways. Try for yourself.
#42 by "Union Carbide"
2000-06-26 19:31:29
smythe@bangg.org http://www.bangg.org
<b>#26</b> "Desiato" wrote...
<QUOTE>But -- seeing how keys are usually circulated within a day of public release, I
doubt that they're going to see the revenue that they are expecting</QUOTE>

I seem to recall that if GameSpy detects the same key logged on multiple times, it disables the key.  I don't remember if it was temporary or permanent tho.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#43 by "Rantage"
2000-06-26 19:48:49
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#41</b> "Stallion" wrote...
<QUOTE>
IMO, GSA is aimed at the mainstream gaming crowd. Those who don't know what packet loss is...those who never heard of a rocket jump...and those who've never read a PlanetCrap thread will be using the program. Why should they be forced to download an entirely seperate program just to start up a quick game of Unreal?
</QUOTE>

Well then, with either GS3D or GSA it sounds like these uber-newbies are going to be downloading a separate program.  Still doesn't make much sense, but then neither is Lucasfilm's refusal to release the DVD of Episode 1.  Common element?  Oh, heavens no.

Where does one define the boundaries of "mainstream gamers"?  I mean, I would consider myself in such a category: I've been playing for quite a while and am familiar with packet loss, latency, etc. but couldn't tell you which 3D card is the best nor much behind the actual graphics tweaking and optimization techniques.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#44 by "Stallion"
2000-06-26 19:58:47
clambert@gamespy.com http://www.planetunreal.com
What I meant was, why should someone have to download GameSpy 3D when they already installed GameSpy Arcade? (which was bundled with Scrabble 2.0)

Basically, GameSpy Arcade will fit those who just want to play a simple game of UT. If you want to have custom tabs, advanced filtering, and detailed server info, then GameSpy3D is your best bet.

Think of MS Paint and Adobe Photoshop. You can use Paint to create a "Hello World" desktop picture, but you can use Photoshop to watermark a batch of vector images with pretty text and a drop shadow.

They were created by different companies, but Microsoft could easily buy Adobe and would still bundle Paint with Windows.
#45 by "deadlock"
2000-06-26 20:07:46
deadlock@eircom.net
'Mainstream' gamer ? judging by what Joost is saying about the way that Gamespy Arcade is to be marketed and distributed (ie in OEM bundles, with compatible games, etc.), a 'mainstream' gamer would appear to be someone who has little or no net savvy and isn't likely to be wandering towards a site like the 'Crap anytime soon.

Incidentally, this is the majority of people who buy games, I'm afraid. And it's also who Andy and others always overlook when they ask who, exactly, is going to blindly buy the next hyped game from Monolith or whoever is fucking us over this week. Just because we know all there is to know about what publisher does what, doesn't mean that the broader public does.

and even more off topic:

I installed a beta of Windows Millenium the other day and noticed something pretty fucked up when I tried to delete a rather large .wav that was lurking on my hard drive - I think this also happens in Win98 (and probably win95 with Active Desktop installed); when you click on the wav file (with either mouse button) the web frame in the folder window brings up a MediaPlayer control panel so that you can preview the .wav there and then (because it'd take so long to open MediaPlayer/WinAmp proper ??). Unfortunately this locks the file and prevents you from deleting it! What a pile of shit! This isn't a major problem with Win98, because you can just turn off the WebView for that particular folder. But with WinMil, you have to turn off WebView altogether (for every folder). I know most of you are thinking 'big deal, I hate that damn web thing', but i find it useful to have on in folders that contain images etc., so you can preview them. just thought i'd mention that. hohum.

deadlock
#46 by "deadlock"
2000-06-26 20:08:08
deadlock@eircom.net
'Mainstream' gamer ? judging by what Joost is saying about the way that Gamespy Arcade is to be marketed and distributed (ie in OEM bundles, with compatible games, etc.), a 'mainstream' gamer would appear to be someone who has little or no net savvy and isn't likely to be wandering towards a site like the 'Crap anytime soon.

Incidentally, this is the majority of people who buy games, I'm afraid. And it's also who Andy and others always overlook when they ask who, exactly, is going to blindly buy the next hyped game from Monolith or whoever is fucking us over this week. Just because we know all there is to know about what publisher does what, doesn't mean that the broader public does.

and even more off topic:

I installed a beta of Windows Millenium the other day and noticed something pretty fucked up when I tried to delete a rather large .wav that was lurking on my hard drive - I think this also happens in Win98 (and probably win95 with Active Desktop installed); when you click on the wav file (with either mouse button) the web frame in the folder window brings up a MediaPlayer control panel so that you can preview the .wav there and then (because it'd take so long to open MediaPlayer/WinAmp proper ??). Unfortunately this locks the file and prevents you from deleting it! What a pile of shit! This isn't a major problem with Win98, because you can just turn off the WebView for that particular folder. But with WinMil, you have to turn off WebView altogether (for every folder). I know most of you are thinking 'big deal, I hate that damn web thing', but i find it useful to have on in folders that contain images etc., so you can preview them. just thought i'd mention that. hohum.

deadlock
#47 by "BloodKnight"
2000-06-26 20:11:14
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>#44</b> "Stallion" wrote...
<QUOTE>Think of MS Paint and Adobe Photoshop. You can use Paint to create a "Hello
World" desktop picture, but you can use Photoshop to watermark a batch of vector
images with pretty text and a drop shadow.

</QUOTE>

Damn, I almost forgot about that.  Then again, I never really tried HL or any of those other Gamespy 3D games on GSA (since they weren't in it).  Maybe this won't be a bad thing after all :)
#48 by "netgee"
2000-06-26 20:17:55
ryan@shiftclick.net
<b>#46</b> deadlock wrote...
<quote>[windows mill. stuff about it crashing here]</quote>

Welcome to a <b>beta</b> product. :)
#49 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-06-26 20:30:50
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
#44:<quote>Think of MS Paint and Adobe Photoshop. You can use Paint to create a "Hello World" desktop picture, but you can use Photoshop to watermark a batch of vector images with pretty text and a drop shadow.

They were created by different companies, but Microsoft could easily buy Adobe and would still bundle Paint with Windows. </quote>

It would've worked better for this situation if you'd used PhotoDraw in your example, which is part of certain versions of Office2000, or available seperately. AFAIK it can do all of the things that Photoshop does, and it's made by MS ;)

I think something that's missing, though, is the question of where did the update to GameSpy3d go? Last I heard they were supposed to be working on an update to give it a better interface, and now we have GameSpy Arcade, and just a couple more new games added to GameSpy3D (which I haven't downloaded the last couple of updates for since the new games supported are games I don't play).

-PainKilleR-[CE]
#50 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-06-26 21:20:46
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
Just read the arcade stuff site through and it almost made me puke... Yikes. I hate this cheesy "yes we know you are complete moron so we'll speak the language that you would be able to comprehend".

Anyway... This program is different from Gamespy, it is rather similar to the other two thousand different ICQ clones with game support. They pop up all over the place now, all with the same cheesy look and "click me and I'll find your games, your friends, and I would start a server where you would play" button.

I don't know if it's a good or a bad thing, because many newbies would be better with the tool like that, ability to share their new experience with their friends "hey Johnny, see the thing I found, it's called Arcade, I can see your icon it is all blue when you play chess, neato huh?", etc. Many good things.

On the other hand, there is GameSpy3D - supposedly a tool for advanced gamers... Yeah right... What about GSI - they surely would support both products for some time - but GSpy would just die slowly because it, pretty much, is QuakeSpy, an utility made for one game so it's about as flexible as my grandma when it comes to adding other game type support. They would probably add few other Quake-like games to their list before EOLing the product.

I guess their long-term development of new improved reworked GameSpy turned into this game-enhanced ICQ for dummies. They don't care about hardcore gamers, they care for money. More people would buy this product, more influence over online gaming GSI would have, higher their prices (what developers pay them to include their games) would go. They really just need to enslave the broadest audience possibly.

Having this dumbified Arcade tool popular among millions of newbie gamers will make more developers hand out money to bundle it with their games. I really hate downloading demos which automatically install 2meg GSpy lite, now it would be 10meg Arcade lite. Soon, when they have enough power, what could possible stop them from forcing developers into adopting their standard on network queries? It was happening already to some extent, and it would be only worse in the future.

I would hate to see one company having control over the server listings for all online games, as it would effectively kill the multiplyer gaming as we know it. Call me paranoid, but I am 100% for what Andy is doing, looking for and displaying the facts which combined together might at the current moment sound funny, or conspirative, or absolutely unimportant, untill it is too late and no one's left to say "I told you".<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
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