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Monolith game is broken. Shock. Horror.
June 24th 2000, 10:57 CEST by andy

Here's something we haven't been able to say very often lately: Monolith's Jason Hall has updated his .plan. Rejoice!



The man who almost single-handedly kept Planetcrap in business last year decided that the world should know about this:

The Multiplayer Sanity Beta Test has begun!

Finally, some new people to frag!!!

Yeah, new people to frag. ROCK!! One small problem: The beta doesn't work.

People 'lucky' enough to be selected/victimised for the multiplayer beta test have received this e-mail from the Hallster to let them know what's going on:

The beta test is going well, and with it we have fortunately exposed a serious bug.

Here is the bug:

"I can load the game up fine, everything starts up, but when I go to look for new internet game (find internet servers), the lists load then the game quits automatically for no reason. "

This is a serious bug, and we are working on getting a fix done immediately so that the beta test can continue. When we have it fixed (which should be soon) we will e-mail you with directions on how to get it.

Apparently what we think may be happening, is that when the number of available servers climb too high, the Sanity (find internet servers) interface gets confused and crashes.

This means that it is almost impossible to use that option at this time, and thusly no one can find games and play. :-(

So is this a serious problem? Well, Jason says it is but let's be realistic: It's a major bug in a beta test, and what else is a beta test for if it isn't to find bugs?

At least, that's what you might think. But according to the e-mail that welcomed people to the beta test, the intention was only to give it a good thrashing:

Our intention with this Beta is for you to test the user interface, stress test servers and system configurations.

So it looks like Monolith was confident that all serious bugs had been squished. But they missed one that stops people from playing the game online. Well, I'm shocked... I'm really shocked. We've come to expect better from Monolith.

There is some consolation for the beta testers, though, as apparently their 17Mb download wasn't a complete waste of time:

This problem is only restricted to the "in-game" server find. It does not affect our GameSpy support. You can use gamespy to find games and play. You can also use the "direct" approach of typing in IP addresses manually .LAN games are still possible as well.

Interesting. But this was how people were welcomed to the beta test:

Congratulations! You have been selected to take part in the Sanity Multiplayer Beta Test! The beta is done and is ready for testing. We have set up a closed server for you to download Sanity: Aiken's Artifact and play via WON or LAN.

No mention of GameSpy support, eh? Even though that's the only practical way to play the game online? Weird.

As for the game itself, the feedback I've heard so far is that it's not bad: "It seems to be a neat little game, really, really *similar* to Nox." Good music: "The introduction music track is really cool." There is a problem with the camera controls: "Your character won't move after using a talent if the mouse pointer is at the edge of the screen, which is kind of annoying." And on a P2-400 with 128Mb and a Voodoo 2 it "chugs along pretty slowly".

Now... what good would a Monolith thread be if we didn't have some analysis of recent LithBull? All of it provided, as usual, by the Hallster's .plan file...

From the 6th of June:

Quick answer to a common question:

Yes, other game companies and their employees are welcome to sign up for the Sanity beta test for possible selection.

So we're meant to believe that people from other games companies were itching to get their hands on the next Monolith game? Highly doubtful. If it had been a LithTech 2.0 game then maybe, just maybe, other companies would want to see if it lives up to the hype, but Sanity uses a modified version of the clunky old Shogo/B2 engine so I can't imagine any other developers really care.

Same update:

The registration list is filling up quickly. If you plan on registering, you may want to do it sooner rather than later.

So it's really, really popular? Wow. So how come, eleven days later, this message was necessary:

If you haven't signed up yet and were planning to, make sure you do it by this coming Tuesday!

And then two days later:

If you are still unsure if you want to participate, make sure you check out the movie on the registration website. That may grab your interest!

Oh dear. If the beta test was as popular as we're meant to believe, Jason was sure putting a lot of effort into whetting people's appetites. Kinda makes you think that it wasn't popular at all, doesn't it?

In closing, let me say that I take no great pleasure from seeing a games company go through a difficult period... apart from Monolith. Because they deserve it.

The reason that most people won't care about Sanity is because we don't trust the company that is making it.

We don't know what Monolith is like nowadays, but they once treated their customers very badly and we have no reason to think the future will be any different. Please -- prove us wrong.

If Monolith's next game is really good and well-supported, then great. If the game after that is just as good then that's even better. And if that carries on with the next game then possibly -- possibly -- people will forget the appalling way they were treated in the past.

Long term, Monolith's games aren't all doomed to fail, but there's a long way to go before people will trust them again. We watch with interest...

C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Monolith game is broken. Shock. Horror.

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#1 by "RahvinTaka"
2000-06-24 11:06:38
donaldp@mad.scientist.com
my cats breath smells like catfood<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "shaithis"
2000-06-24 11:13:26
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
If monlith's next game is really good and well-supported, 90% of the populace will completely forget any previous transgressions.

You won't... but most will. That's how the market actually works.

-shai
#3 by "None-1a"
2000-06-24 11:16:02
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#1</b> "RahvinTaka" wrote...
<QUOTE>my cats breath smells like catfood</QUOTE>

Then feed it dogfood.

You know SIERRA was the bad boy of the game publishing world pre half-life (buggy incomplete games, bad support, etc..) and you know it only took one game (half-life) and people forget the whole thing. I can't image people demanding more the one great game to forget monoliths past problems. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#4 by "Andy"
2000-06-24 11:21:24
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#2</b>, shaithis:

People who felt screwed over by Monolith, especially with B2 and to a lesser extent with Shogo, will not trust Monolith in future. Some will buy a Monolith game once it has been out for a while and they know it's good and well-supported, but they will NOT trust the company in the same way that most people WOULD trust Id, Valve, and in most cases, Epic.

But anyway, that's not really the point of the thread, so I'm not going to yak on about it. The point is to let people know that Monolith's Q&A standards don't seem to have improved since a year ago. It's just some information that people may like to have if they're thinking of buying Sanity.
#5 by "shaithis"
2000-06-24 11:23:12
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
All right... I'm not thrilled with your last few paragraphs, Andy. You're projecting an amazing range of emotions and opinions on "most" people. Please either back up, or explain in further detail, the following quotes:

<quote>The reason that most people won't care about Sanity is because we don't trust the company that is making it.</quote>

"most?"

<quote>We don't know what Monolith is like nowadays, but they once treated their customers very badly and we have no reason to think the future will be any different.</quote>

Who is "we", please?

<quote>And if that carries on with the next game then possibly -- possibly -- people will forget the appalling way they were treated in the past.</quote>

Which people?

<quote>Long term, Monolith's games aren't all doomed to fail, but there's a long way to go before people will trust them again. We watch with interest...</quote>

There are "we" and "people" again. Please explain.

---

There's your chance, Andy. I haven't jumped down your throat or made any assumptions about what you're saying. I've instead given you a few quotes that I find confusing and (in the manner I'm reading them to mean) fairly unfactual. Rather than simply going with the belief that the way I'm reading them is the way you intended, would you care to correct me?

Thanks,

-shai
#6 by "G-Man"
2000-06-24 11:30:17
jonmars@shiftlock.org http://www.shiftlock.org
<b>#3</b> "None-1a" wrote...
<QUOTE>You know SIERRA was the bad boy of the game publishing world pre half-life (buggy incomplete games, bad support, etc..) and you know it only took one game (half-life) and people forget the whole thing. I can't image people demanding more the one great game to forget monoliths past problems.</QUOTE>
You are forgetting that prior to it's 5 years of hell, Sierra had been the premier pc game developer/publisher for nearly a decade.

They had an amazing impact on the industry, through introducing soundcards to the masses, legitimizing gaming among the traditional entertainment businesses, helping to pioneer cd-rom games, as well as leading the way by showing how a mega game development/publishing studio could be run. For a considerable portion of my youth, nearly <b>every</b> Sierra game was a must-buy. So I think that many of the people who would later be rooting against them, in a lot of ways still wanted to see them succeed.

 - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#7 by "Andy"
2000-06-24 11:36:52
andy@planetcrap.com
Chris, you don't need to treat me with kid gloves or try to 'persuade' me that I should answer your questions. I'm not Jason Hall. ;-)
<QUOTE>
<quote>The reason that most people won't care about Sanity is because we don't trust the company that is making it.</quote>
"most?"
</QUOTE>
Practically everyone. (That's my impression, of course -- I haven't *asked* everyone. I hope we're not going to have any more claims that I'm presenting my opinions as facts.)

Let me ask: Do <b>you</b> trust Monolith? Would you buy the next Monolith game without having read any reviews or heard what friends think about it?
<QUOTE>
<quote>We don't know what Monolith is like nowadays, but they once treated their customers very badly and we have no reason to think the future will be any different.</quote>
Who is "we", please?
</QUOTE>
Just people in general. Do <b>you</b> know what Monolith is like nowadays? Do you have any reason to think they'll behave differently in future?
<QUOTE>
<quote>And if that carries on with the next game then possibly -- possibly -- people will forget the appalling way they were treated in the past.</quote>
Which people?
</QUOTE>
That's perfectly clear: It says "people will forget the appalling way they were treated in the past". So obviously it refers to people who felt they were treated appallingly in the past.

So there, I've answered your questions. Do you agree with me analysis of the situation? Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But I've answered your questions, and unless you can <b>prove</b> that I'm wrong, any disagreement you may have is just that -- disagreement.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how well the next Monolith game sells. I'm betting it will bomb... you may have different expectations.
#8 by "Andy"
2000-06-24 11:46:17
andy@planetcrap.com
Let's get this out of the way:

Having addressed what Chris said, I'm not going to get into any more discussion about the way I wrote the topic, or about my own opinion of Monolith.

Doing so would make it too easy for someone from Monolith to hang back a while, and then turn up in the middle of a flame war and avoid answering any concerns that people may have.

If you don't like this... tough. That's the way it is.
#9 by "RahvinTaka"
2000-06-24 11:54:01
donaldp@mad.scientist.com
<b>#4</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>People who felt screwed over by Monolith, especially with B2 and to a lesser extent with Shogo, will not trust Monolith in future. Some will buy a Monolith game once it has been out for a while and they know it's good and well-supported, but they will NOT trust the company in the same way that most people WOULD trust Id, Valve, and in most cases, Epic.</QUOTE>

Well I won't trust any company like Id, Valve, Epic or the Spector-part of Ion. Mainly because they tend to be trust worthy. I will trust Monolith just as much as I will trust any other company. I don't buy many games on first release and I won't buy any of monoliths either - but that has nothing to do with not trusting monolith in particular.

FWIW I was never burned by Monolith but I have been burned by both Id and Epic in past due to bugs - yet I still think they both have got it together.

Despite all the derision Monolith seems to have captured a lot of mindspace with developers over their new engine. The engine must be exceptionally cheap, exceptionaly good, exceptionally well supported or have some other feature that makes it stand out in a croud. If they can do this despite the bad press they should be to put out a stable game and I think I may wait till it comes out before I judge it thank you very much.

<QUOTE>But anyway, that's not really the point of the thread, so I'm not going to yak on about it. The point is to let people know that Monolith's Q&A standards don't seem to have improved since a year ago. It's just some information that people may like to have if they're thinking of buying Sanity.</QUOTE>

I remmeber some fairly painful "features" in q3a - that is why there is a beta period. Kudos to monolith for doing it. As long as it runs by the time I get it (If I get it) - what do I care ? :P<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "shaithis"
2000-06-24 12:00:03
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
Andy -

Your explanations are good enough for me, and I understand why you would want to get away from conversation about how you wrote the topic.

And you're right, I can't prove you wrong. I can (and already did) say that I don't agree that most people, even those who feel they were burned by Monolith, will be as wary as you expect them to be. But that's a disagreement, and with it expressed, there's really not much more either of the two of us can say on the subject until Monolith produces a really great game, and we see for ourselves.

As far as your questions as to my opinions of Monolith...  If I'm going to express opinions of that type, I'll do it as an editorial that can bring traffic to my site :)

Since I'll probably never get around to writing that editorial, ask me again in ten years, when I'm no longer with GameSpy (and am out of the gaming scene in general, as this is probably the last job I'll ever take in it).

-shai
#11 by "Jason Hall"
2000-06-24 12:03:02
Hall@Lith.com http://www.lith.com
Here it is...

The Monolith topic...

On the last iteration of PlanetCrap, Monolith seemed to be the topic of choice, on this iteration, not so much... but alas, the day has come...

I read the introductory paragraph and I really have nothing to say about it. It is just too much. My overall feeling on this topic: "Whatever, that's great..."

We're trying to have a beta test to help us find and identify bugs as part of our QA process so that we can truly release a quality product, and now to Andy that process somehow equates to us doing poor QA.

You see, the serious bug that came up would not have been found without this beta stress test, yet somehow we were supposed to know about it and have it corrected before we did the necessary testing to discover it (which required a LOT of people to stress test the system).

This is a loaded conversation. Andy, you can analyze my .plan and infer stuff all day long if you want. It doesn't really matter. Best of luck to you on that.

Jace
#12 by "Andy"
2000-06-24 12:19:31
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#11</b>, Jason Hall:
<QUOTE>
We're trying to have a beta test to help us find and identify bugs as part of our QA process so that we can truly release a quality product, and now to Andy that process somehow equates to us doing poor QA.
</QUOTE>
No, it equates to you having poor <b>internal</b> QA. (I said Q&A earlier, didn't I? Oops.) If a supposed self-contained online game can't be played online without using third-party software, that suggests it was not tested adequately.

(Yes, I know people can enter server addresses manually, but how are they supposed to know those addresses?)
<QUOTE>
This is a loaded conversation.
</QUOTE>
Loaded? In what way?

It is information, provided so that people can make an informed choice when they think of buying Sanity or any other Monolith game.
<QUOTE>
Andy, you can analyze my .plan and infer stuff all day long if you want. It doesn't really matter. Best of luck to you on that.
</QUOTE>
I don't need any luck. People (in general, I believe) can see through the sort of comments made in your .plan file. I'm just pointing those comments out to them and then passing on my own thoughts.

You're entitled to make whatever comments you want, and also if you want you can try to mislead people into believing that there is a great demand for your next game. But if I don't believe you, I'm entitled to say so, just as anyone else is.
#13 by "Jason Hall"
2000-06-24 12:28:29
Hall@Lith.com http://www.lith.com
Andy says: "No, it equates to you having poor internal QA. "

Well, I guess you can say our internal QA is poor if you feel that we should have had an internal staff consisting of the several thousand people that were necessary to cause the problem that occurred in Sanity's network code to find the aforementioned bug.

If that is the position you are taking, then OK - I guess I can see your point...
#14 by "Andy"
2000-06-24 12:46:19
andy@planetcrap.com
Well Jason, let me say two things:

I don't believe that you needed thousands of servers to find the problem. Closed beta tests generally have around 500 participants. Even if you had, say, 1000 participants, I find it hard to believe that more than a few dozen would have created their own servers. So, based solely on my own assumptions, I think your game falls over when it tries to poll just a few dozen servers.

But...

It was irresponsible of me to present the information I have as evidence of poor QA standards at Monolith. That part of the topic was based on my own dislike of what I perceive as your company's attitude, and was therefore unfairly biased. I apologise.
#15 by "Apache"
2000-06-24 12:48:57
In case you guys were wondering they (lith) issued a patch for the little crash problem. I know it's fun to make topics about Monolith, GameSpy and <b>ME AS OF LATE</b>, but come on, this is a closed beta test dude. Lighten the hell up.
#16 by "RahvinTaka"
2000-06-24 12:52:48
donaldp@mad.scientist.com
Currently I am cheering for Jason - he seems to have got the last hit in.

They stopped now - maybe I should throw popcorn in the ring to see if that has an effect ? Think it will rile em ?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#17 by "BloodKnight"
2000-06-24 13:09:42
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
"We've come to expect better from Monolith"

I don't, after buying Shogo (/me bangs his head to the wall) and buying Blood2 (/me bangs his head to the wall again), I seriously cannot trust Monolith with their games no more.  They always come out with great ideas for games, that I will say, but the fact that most games are usually buggy and after to wait months just to play multiplayer with patches, this gets me sick.  I was lucky enough to play some Blood2 multiplayer with lag as if I was on a 14.4 even though I had 80 ping, it was still great.  I especially love the style they made for multiplayer, stats and choose your weapons.  But alas, after beings slapped twice from Monolith, especially waiting for a B2 patch that didn't even work, I can't trust them no more with games.
#18 by "MCorleone"
2000-06-24 13:10:31
john_st123@hotmail.com
In case everyone forgets, I was _very_ inflammatory and vocal on the old PC regarding my LithRape.  I shant let it happen again.  Once bitten (Nogo), twice shy (CrudII), and third time?  Don't bother calling because I'm not picking up the phone.  

One thing that did strike me also with his fingertracker is how desperate he seemed to get people to test it out.  I was getting the imagery of a Circus Freakshow Tent attendant dramatically describing what an amazing sight is inside the tent, that there were many people inside witnessing the wonders that he was gatekeeper for, yet there was just a hint too much desperation in his voice.

Finally, didn't he post to a thread circa the steed-fiasco pimping this upcoming "breakthrough game"?

ROCK!
#19 by "Andy"
2000-06-24 13:27:00
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#17</b>, BloodKnight:
<QUOTE>
"We've come to expect better from Monolith"

I don't
</QUOTE>
That comment was sarcastic. I don't either. :)
#20 by "BloodKnight"
2000-06-24 13:32:56
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
Great minds think alike :)
#21 by "MCorleone"
2000-06-24 13:41:32
john_st123@hotmail.com
No, great minds just agree that Monolith games should be outlawed with an ammendment to the Geneva Convention.
#22 by "BloodKnight"
2000-06-24 13:45:44
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
exactly, think alike :)
#23 by "Jafd"
2000-06-24 13:57:05
jafd@whatthefuck.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com/
Frankly I think this whole thread is in <i>very</i> poor taste at this time.
Yes, Monolith handed out the shaft to many people in the past. Yes, many eyes are upon them as they struggle to put out a product that doesn't smell like dog ass. Yes, the Sanity beta is buggy.

We could go over and over and around and around about this at this time, but the simple truth is that it isn't honorable to do so. <b>Nothing</b> is gained by tearing into them at this time.

What more would you have them do? They're having an extensive beta. They're supporting it (I got the email about the patch about five minutes after I read the email telling me to go download the beta). There is no doubt that Monolith is going to be very very cautious when releasing this game; vast portions of their future literally hang in the balance.

Other than getting out a little of that pent-up angst caused by their pervious cock-ups (which, don't get me wrong, I completely understand; just ask me about UIX:A and my concrete plans to bitch-slap Bril Shitrod repeatedly in the afterlife), what purpose is served by raking Monolith over the coals?

Of course it is inevitable, but, crikey, show some class.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#24 by "catfoochoo"
2000-06-24 14:00:41
catfoochoo@yahoo.com
<b>#23</b> "Jafd" wrote...
<QUOTE>

Frankly I think this whole thread is in <I>very</I> poor taste at this time.
Yes, Monolith handed out the shaft to many people in the past. Yes, many eyes are upon them as they struggle to put out a product that doesn't smell like dog ass. Yes, the Sanity beta is buggy.

We could go over and over and around and around about this at this time, but the simple truth is that it isn't honorable to do so. <B>Nothing</B> is gained by tearing into them at this time.

What more would you have them do? They're having an extensive beta. They're supporting it (I got the email about the patch about five minutes after I read the email telling me to go download the beta). There is no doubt that Monolith is going to be very very cautious when releasing this game; vast portions of their future literally hang in the balance.

Other than getting out a little of that pent-up angst caused by their pervious cock-ups (which, don't get me wrong, I completely understand; just ask me about UIX:A and my concrete plans to bitch-slap Bril Shitrod repeatedly in the afterlife), what purpose is served by raking Monolith over the coals?

Of course it is inevitable, but, crikey, show some class.</QUOTE>


Yes, wait until they have released the broken game.  Then rip them to shreds.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#25 by "Jafd"
2000-06-24 14:07:35
jafd@whatthefuck.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com/
<b>#24</b> "catfoochoo" said...
<QUOTE>Yes, wait until they have released the broken game. Then rip them to shreds. </QUOTE>
Oh, yes, ye gods, of course. By all means. If Monolith puts out another shit game and provides shit support... I'll lead the pack to the pyre and hand out petrol and long stick matches.

But to start buying the marshmallows now? <b><i>No.</i></b> It's just not right. Look within your heart and you will see that this is so.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#26 by "catfoochoo"
2000-06-24 14:11:59
catfoochoo@yahoo.com
<b>#25</b> "Jafd" wrote...
<QUOTE>

<B>#24</B> "catfoochoo" said...

<quote>Yes, wait until they have released the broken game. Then rip them to shreds. </quote>
Oh, yes, ye gods, of course. By all means. If Monolith puts out another shit game and provides shit support... I'll lead the pack to the pyre and hand out petrol and long stick matches.

But to start buying the marshmallows now? <B><I>No.</I></B> It's just not right. Look within your heart and you will see that this is so.</QUOTE>

Whenever I look all I see is the promise Shogo, then the promise  of a patch, then another promised patch...<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#27 by "Jafd"
2000-06-24 14:16:52
jafd@whatthefuck.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com/
Heh. That's not your heart you're looking at, that's your spleen ;)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#28 by "MCorleone"
2000-06-24 14:19:50
john_st123@hotmail.com
Jason?  Before you release any more games you should copy Apogee's EULA and get it out.  I think it will help in your future quite a bit...
#29 by "catfoochoo"
2000-06-24 14:25:44
catfoochoo@yahoo.com
<b>#27</b> "Jafd" wrote...
<QUOTE>

Heh. That's not your heart you're looking at, that's your spleen ;)</QUOTE>

Oh I think your right, damn. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#30 by "BarneyQue"
2000-06-24 14:40:20
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
<b>#9</b> "RahvinTaka" wrote...
<QUOTE>

Well I won't trust any company like Id, Valve, Epic or the Spector-part of Ion. Mainly because they tend to be trust worthy. I will trust Monolith just as much as I will trust any other company. I don't buy many games on first release and I won't buy any of monoliths either - but that has nothing to do with not trusting monolith in particular.

</QUOTE>


Did I miss a previous Spector-Ion release?  I can guess what your problem is with the others you listed, but Spector/ION has only just now released their first title.

What's the problem with them?  I could have made a stack of company names you could have padded your comment with before resorting to someone who's just barley released a game.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#31 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-06-24 14:46:39
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
Warren Spector is one of those names

a name you _know_ cant put a game out

like Geoff Crammond, Peter Molyneux, Jon Hare, Sid Meier.



Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#32 by "RahvinTaka"
2000-06-24 14:47:07
donaldp@mad.scientist.com
<b>#30</b> "BarneyQue" wrote...
<QUOTE>

<B>#9</B> "RahvinTaka" wrote...

<quote>

Well I won't trust any company like Id, Valve, Epic or the Spector-part of Ion. Mainly because they tend to be trust worthy. I will trust Monolith just as much as I will trust any other company. I don't buy many games on first release and I won't buy any of monoliths either - but that has nothing to do with not trusting monolith in particular.

</quote>


Did I miss a previous Spector-Ion release? I can guess what your problem is with the others you listed, but Spector/ION has only just now released their first title.

What's the problem with them? I could have made a stack of company names you could have padded your comment with before resorting to someone who's just barley released a game.

</QUOTE>

arg .. what I said didn't make sense ... what I should've said was

Well I won't trust any company like I trust Id, Valve, Epic or the Spector-part of Ion, as these companies tend to be trust worthy. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-06-24 14:47:43
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
ack fuck

edit

Warren Spector is one of those names

a name you _know_ cant put a BAD game out

like Geoff Crammond, Peter Molyneux, Jon Hare, Sid Meier.



Ds


/me grumbles <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "MCorleone"
2000-06-24 14:50:39
john_st123@hotmail.com
Jesus!  With these last few posts I'm wondering if CrapSpy has a post-decoder built in?  Yikes!
#35 by "BarneyQue"
2000-06-24 15:22:18
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
OK, it took a few messages there, but I get it now.  

Thanks for clearing that up.  As I'm about to go on a search for Warrens title, I did not want to hear he was in the bad catagory.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#36 by "Gestalt"
2000-06-24 15:41:57
john@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
"No mention of GameSpy support, eh? Even though that's the only practical way to play the game online? Weird."

Obviously you're not on the beta test, because if you were you would know that just two hours after the e-mail announcing that the beta was available, we got a second one repeating what Jason Hall said in his plan about the internal server browser not working. Also, if you had read it you would know that it said that Monolith thought the bug was occuring "when the number of available servers climb too high", something which internal beta testing obviously wouldn't have caught.

I really don't see what the big deal is here. In fact, when I first saw the thread I thought it was going to be suggesting that the bug was an intentional "feature" to force everyone to use GameSpy. ;-)

Bottom line - it's a beta, it's supposed to be buggy. Better to find these problems now than a few months down the line when the game ships.


"a P2-400 with 128Mb and a Voodoo 2 it "chugs along pretty slowly"."

Well, duh. Get a new graphics card. ;-)


Darkseid - "a name you _know_ cant put a game out"

Heh, Freudian slip.  When was the last time any of the people you listed actually released a game? ;-)
#37 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-06-24 15:43:49
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
Crammond has Gp3 ready to go, August I think is launch date

Molyneuxs hand can be seen what Bullfrog are releasing these days.

Sid Meier had Antiem, the expansion packs for Civ etc..

Spector has Deus Ex


natch :)


DS<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#38 by "MCorleone"
2000-06-24 15:45:40
john_st123@hotmail.com
Wow!  Mr. Miller is throwing flames all over now!  First PC, and now Id!

"My take is that Id will make a lot of money remaking DOOM for the fifth time in a row (cannot count Q3A). ;-)"


Careful, Romero.  You're gonna have to share those rock-star groupies with someone else now!
#39 by "Andy"
2000-06-24 15:58:37
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#36</b>, Gestalt:
<QUOTE>
Obviously you're not on the beta test, because
</QUOTE>
Because... I made it clear that I'm not?
<QUOTE>
if you were you would know that just two hours after the e-mail announcing that the beta was available, we got a second one repeating what Jason Hall said in his plan about the internal server browser not working.
</QUOTE>
He said it in an e-mail, not his plan file.
<QUOTE>
Also, if you had read it you would know that it said that Monolith thought the bug was occuring "when the number of available servers climb too high", something which internal beta testing obviously wouldn't have caught.
</QUOTE>
That e-mail was quoted in the topic. Obviously I read it.
#40 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-06-24 16:06:12
sgt_hulka@yahoo.com http://www.hulka.com
I think Scott is just jealous because we all know the Doom marine gets more babes than Duke!

It's twue, it's twue!

Little known fact about Blazing Saddles, when Madeline said that line in the film, you know when she was with the black sheriff, and she said it's twue, it's twue, that was the only scene Mel Brooks had to cut.

Originally the lights went out, and she said, it's twue, it's twue, then the sheriff said "Lady, that's my arm your sucking on".

The censors made Mel cut that from the film.  Too bad, it's a funny line!
#41 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-06-24 17:08:48
appliedavoidanc@triton.net
<b>#25</b> "Jafd" wrote...
<QUOTE>But to start buying the marshmallows now? <B><I>No.</I></B> It's just not right.
Look within your heart and you will see that this is so</QUOTE>

No, buy them now. They cook up better when they are a little bit stale.

<b>#3</b> "None-1a" wrote...
<QUOTE>You know SIERRA was the bad boy of the game publishing world pre half-life
(buggy incomplete games, bad support, etc..) and you know it only took one game
(half-life) and people forget the whole thing. I can't image people demanding
more the one great game to forget monoliths past problems. </QUOTE>

Details are a little fuzzy at the moment so correct me if I am wrong, but post-Half Life, hasn't Sierra gone a on killing spree - Closing development houses, cancelling games, releasing buggy ones? One success does not necessarily reverse a trend. I remember specifically the Dynamix people taking it in the teeth not long ago.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#42 by "Gestalt"
2000-06-24 17:11:24
john@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
Darkseid - "Crammond has Gp3 ready to go, August I think is launch date"

End of July. But when was the last time he released something? He's been working on GP3 since some time in the late middle ages... We should be glad he's using the 1998 F1 season data - the game would be pretty dull if all the "cars" were being pulled around by a pair of horses. ;)


Darkseid - "Molyneuxs hand can be seen what Bullfrog are releasing these days."

But what was the last game he actually made? Dungeon Keeper?


Darkseid - "Sid Meier had Antiem, the expansion packs for Civ etc.."

Yup, he worked on Antietam to some extent. But he's not released anything since then AFAIK.


Darkseid - "Spector has Deus Ex"

But before that his last game was .. what? He did a little work on Thief : The Dark Project very early in its development, but the last game he really contributed to... Dunno off-hand.


Andy - "That e-mail was quoted in the topic"

That'll teach me to actually read the topic before posting, instead of just quickly scanning through it. ;)

If you've read the e-mails though, I really don't see what this thread is in aid of - it's a beta, it's got bugs. And? *sighs*
#43 by "BloodKnight"
2000-06-24 17:13:12
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>#41</b> "VeeSPIKE" wrote...
<QUOTE>

<B>#25</B> "Jafd" wrote...

<quote>"a P2-400 with 128Mb and a Voodoo 2 it "chugs along pretty slowly"."

Well, duh. Get a new graphics card. ;-)

</QUOTE>

I have the same specs, except a celeron 400.  How come that 'rig' could run Q3A, Starsiege, Dark Reign 2, Metal Fatigue, and Unreal Tournament could run pretty good on a p2-400, 128 megs of ram on a V2?  I think there is lack of optimizing involved.
#44 by "BloodKnight"
2000-06-24 17:13:46
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
Doh stupid quotes
!
#45 by "Andy"
2000-06-24 17:17:29
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#42</b>, Gestalt:
<QUOTE>
That'll teach me to actually read the topic before posting, instead of just quickly scanning through it. ;)
</QUOTE>
You must have scanned through it *very* quickly to miss that whole e-mail.
<QUOTE>
If you've read the e-mails though, I really don't see what this thread is in aid of - it's a beta, it's got bugs. And? *sighs*
</QUOTE>
I've already accepted that it was an invalid criticism, and apologised.
#46 by "BarneyQue"
2000-06-24 17:17:37
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
<b>#42</b> "Gestalt" wrote...
<QUOTE>

Darkseid - "Spector has Deus Ex"

But before that his last game was .. what? He did a little work on Thief : The Dark Project very early in its development, but the last game he really contributed to... Dunno off-hand.


 </QUOTE>

If you don't remember what it was, it couldn't have been that bad.  No one around here ever forgets a bad game. Good games slowly fade into the sunset, but a bad game...devs and pubs pay for those forever.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#47 by "Andy"
2000-06-24 17:20:00
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#43</b>, BloodKnight:
<QUOTE>
I have the same specs, except a celeron 400. How come that 'rig' could run Q3A, Starsiege, Dark Reign 2, Metal Fatigue, and Unreal Tournament could run pretty good on a p2-400, 128 megs of ram on a V2? I think there is lack of optimizing involved.
</QUOTE>
Lack of optimizing? Monolith? No way! (Oh hang on, Blood II was laggy even on a LAN...)
#48 by "MCorleone"
2000-06-24 17:34:52
john_st123@hotmail.com
Hmmm.  Something strikes me as odd:

"Also, if you had read it you would know that it said that Monolith thought the bug was occuring "when the number of available servers climb too high", something which internal beta testing obviously wouldn't have caught. "

As this was a closed beta test, let's assume that the number of testers was say, 1000?  Given I don't know the mechanics of the game, such as how many people are on a server, let's again assume for the sake of argument that the number is 4 people per server.  I'm assuming it won't be less than that as 4 is pretty much the minimum for a multi-player co-op game.

Now, that would put the number of servers on this list at 250.  Either they aren't expecting 1000 people to buy it, thereby never having to worry about the NumberOfServers variable to ever climb as high as 250, or their QA made quite an oversight while playing on their LAN's.  

Either way, it's not too re-assuring of Monolith's new QualityFirst(tm) approach.  

What's the next bug they're going to find?  Doesn't run on computers with 64MB of RAM?
#49 by "MCorleone"
2000-06-24 17:36:35
john_st123@hotmail.com
(That was supposed to be a greater-than sign before 64MB, but the posting script must have interpreted it as an incorrect tag...)
#50 by "Russ"
2000-06-24 17:59:50
rthcowboy@mindspring.com
<b>#42</b> "Gestalt" wrote...
<QUOTE>Darkseid - "Sid Meier had Antiem, the expansion packs for Civ etc.."


Yup, he worked on Antietam to some extent. But he's not released
anything since then AFAIK.
</QUOTE>
Well, wasn't Antietam released at the end of last year? Also, Alpha Centauri came out early last year. Sid Meier is staying productive enough for me, although it seems he is more of a guiding hand than a day to day designer anymore.

<b>#41</b> "VeeSPIKE" wrote...
<QUOTE>correct me if I am wrong, but post-Half Life, hasn't Sierra gone a on killing
spree - Closing development houses, cancelling games, releasing buggy ones? One
success does not necessarily reverse a trend. </QUOTE>
You're missing the other successes, though. Sierra published both Homeworld and the recent Ground Control. Both of these were very well received.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
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