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ROCK!! (dot com)
June 23rd 2000, 11:50 CEST by andy

The trouble with companies giving assurances about what they'll do in future is that sometimes they change their minds. Apogee fans take note... ;-)



There are lots of "free e-mail for life" services around, such as Hotmail, Yahoo, RemarQ and Altavista, and on the whole they are very reliable. But what would happen if, for example, the yahoo.com domain name were to be sold, and the new owner didn't want to continue the free e-mail service?

According to the dotcom dead pool over at FuckedCompany, that's exactly what has happened with e-mail provider BigFoot.

Having given out @rock.com addresses for the last three years -- advertising that the service would be available "for life" -- BigFoot has now sold the rock.com domain name. The new owner, music network SoundStone, is using the domain name for its portal site and, claims FuckedCompany, any BigFoot customers with an @rock.com e-mail address have now lost it.

It certainly seems that this story is true, although proof is a little thin on the ground.

When asked how he knows of SoundStone's policy, the man behind FuckedCompany, Philip Kaplan of PK Interactive, would only say "I am the magic man and I know all". BigFoot failed to reply.

Such actions by e-mail providers could, potentially, be disastrous for individuals or small businesses. In a recent story on Salon the owner of a domain name explained how it had been "hijacked" by Network Solutions because she no longer had access to the e-mail account she was using when she registered it. In that case it was a work address and she had moved to a different company, but it could easily have been an account with one of the free providers.

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#29 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-06-24 02:11:24
appliedavoidanc@triton.net
<b>#17</b> "Charlie Wiederhold" wrote...
<QUOTE>In CDROM.com's case it's even worse because CDROM.com agreed to allow different
companies to use their services as a backbone. These companies came to depend on
that service and it was a working relationship for both parties.

</QUOTE>

The difference being that the CDROM service is still available, albeit no longer free. From what I read, the people with the @rock.com addresses have lost the use of that address altogether. That is a little different. If they had been told that the service was no longer free, and they had the choice to opt out or not, then I would agree with your statement.



<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#30 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-06-24 02:12:44
rhiggi@home.com
<b>#28</b> "None-1a" wrote...
<QUOTE>
Bepends on where you read it, if it's just a marketing blurb it probably will not apply, if it's writen in the guarentee it's true, for the most part. You see the tream for life would fall under what a resonable person would consider a life time noramly a resonable person would consider life time to mean the normal operating life time of the battery. With a free web server it's be considered untill the company goes out fo buisness or is sold (that's the risk of using any free service).</QUOTE>

In this case its wasn't the batteries lifetime, it was the purchasers life time.  That guy and his buddies has been getting batteries for free for years.  I guess Sears didn't think people would really do that, but they did and its a credit to them that they honored thier agreement from over 20 years ago (and theres no doubt they lost money on it).

What happens if a car dealer does the same thing?  Advertise a car for one price and when you get there the cars not available?  Here its called "bait and switch" but I'm not sure what the punishment if for it.  False advertising is a bad thing.

I was responding to the question as to whether or not you should be able to take a companys word at face value.  Not whether they have obligations after they are no longer a company.  I still think they should honor the aggrement unless they dissolve the original company completely.  In this case because of the EULA they may well have honored thier original agreement, I'm not sure.  I'm not sure what the law is on this matter.  Theres potiental for abuse either way.  I could break my contract with you by "dissolving" my company, keep all the people and start a new company with similiar name?  Dunno.

v<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#31 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-06-24 02:20:26
appliedavoidanc@triton.net
<b>#27</b> "Vengeance[CoD]" wrote...
<QUOTE>Not if you agree to it. I knew a guy that bought a battery from Sears with a
life time guarentee. It was a gimick to get to you buy the car battery of
course. "If the battery every wears out we'll replace it with a new one," they
said. He told me about it on his way to get another new battery for free.... 25
years later. :-)

</QUOTE>

Sears has changed that agreement since then. Now, they only warranty the battery for up to 5 years (going from memory) and free replacement within two. After two years, they pro-rate the warranty. Still a hell of a deal, if you burn through car battaries avery 12-16 months, like I do.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#32 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-06-24 02:23:21
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
what in gods name are you doing to burn through car batteries like that ?


Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-06-24 02:24:41
rhiggi@home.com
<b>#31</b> "VeeSPIKE" wrote...
<QUOTE>

<B>#27</B> "Vengeance[CoD]" wrote...

<quote>Not if you agree to it. I knew a guy that bought a battery from Sears with a
life time guarentee. It was a gimick to get to you buy the car battery of
course. "If the battery every wears out we'll replace it with a new one," they
said. He told me about it on his way to get another new battery for free.... 25
years later. :-)

</quote>

Sears has changed that agreement since then. Now, they only warranty the battery for up to 5 years (going from memory) and free replacement within two. After two years, they pro-rate the warranty. Still a hell of a deal, if you burn through car battaries avery 12-16 months, like I do.

</QUOTE>

Heh, yep.  The discontinued that shortly after they started it from what I understood.  They lost a lot of money on that one.  Inflations a bitch ain't it :)

V<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-06-24 03:00:27
appliedavoidanc@triton.net
<b>#32</b> "Darkseid-[D!]" wrote...
<QUOTE>

what in gods name are you doing to burn through car batteries like that ?


Ds</QUOTE>

What I REALLY REALLY need to do is find space to put a second battery and an isolator setup, so that the stereo stops deep cycling the main battery. If I run the stereo too loud (is there such a thing?) for too long, eventually I get cell burnout. I am already using a larger battery than spec, and cannot go any larger or I would (no room left where the battery goes.)

Besides, new batteries for free every year is not the problem. It's the $180+ alternators that I have swapped out at a rate of one every six months because the diodes keep burning out in them that costs me. For reference, I've had the car for four years.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#35 by "BarneyQue"
2000-06-24 03:43:21
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
<b>#22</b> "Charlie Wiederhold" wrote...
<QUOTE>

So, CDROM.com has been making money off of hosting those files for years. Now they turn around and are going to charge for the exact same service. Ummm, yeah whatever guys. See ya later.

</QUOTE>

My guess is that the problem with the equation lies in this secion here.  While they were hosting files with the agreement in place that they could make compilations and whatnot available for sale, there was probable little to no demand for such a service.  Even if there ever was, things like CD covers in magazines, and broadband internet connections probably took care of whatever business it was they were trying to live off of.

Having said that, I'm not going to cry a stream of tears for them.  While it's in the best interest of the services customers (the content providers), to see to it that the service thrives, I in no way hold them (content providers again) accountable for another company's bad decisions.

If I provide a great service, and offer it up for free, and find that people actually like that and use it, I should not be surprised when the same people balk if I later decide to change the plan, and start asking for money up front.

The owners of the service in my opinion had an unworkable business plan, and the new owners seemed to have figured that out. Good for them.

Now just to play the other side of the coin just one more time. I still don't like to see people now painting them (cdrom) in a bad light, a free ride was had, it's time to say Thank You, and catch the next train as GSI seems to be attempting.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#36 by "Andy"
2000-06-24 08:42:59
andy@planetcrap.com
Charlie:

The situation is different.

The e-mail service closed down. People lost a service without any possibility of NOT losing it.

CDROM.COM is still going, and you had the option of continuing to use it, only you had to pay.

Does the CDROM.COM situation suck? Sure it does. I can see it from 3DR's angle and GSI's angle. But I'm much more concerned about the housewife who signed up for free e-mail and then one day found she'd lost her account.


<b>#23</b>, Charlie Wiederhold:
<QUOTE>
The thing the email service did do was be silly and say "Free email for life!" and then in their EULA state that it's not *reeeeally* for life.
</QUOTE>
If you've gone and checked that then okay, but *I* didn't say anything about what is in the EULA. On the page mentioned in #3, I couldn't get far enough through the sign-up process to see any license agreement.


<b>#27</b>, Vengeance[CoD]:
<QUOTE>
He told me about it on his way to get another new battery for free.... 25 years later. :-)
</QUOTE>
Buy that man a drink for me, will ya?! :)
#37 by "EvilDude"
2000-06-24 09:04:24
EvilDude@yourMoF'nAss.com http://EvilDude@yourMoF'nAss.com
Question: Why?
#38 by "RahvinTaka"
2000-06-24 09:20:02
donaldp@mad.scientist.com
<b>#37</b> "EvilDude" wrote...
<QUOTE>Question: Why? </QUOTE>
Answer: Why not ?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#39 by "None-1a"
2000-06-24 09:29:22
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#30</b> "Vengeance[CoD]" wrote...
<QUOTE>In this case its wasn't the batteries lifetime, it was the purchasers life time. That guy and his buddies has been getting batteries for free for years. I guess Sears didn't think people would really do that, but they did and its a credit to them that they honored thier agreement from over 20 years ago (and theres no doubt they lost money on it). </QUOTE>

Yeah Sears is really good about the whole life time thing (try replacing a hand tool that's nearly 25 yeras old, and has been ran over by a lawn mower several dozen times before finaly braking in half, it's a no questions asked situation), since you brought up the battery thing I was using it as an example to throw the idea of what a resonable person would belive (all advertising law hinges on that idea), and around here we've got a few tire and battery sotres that go on and on about their life time warrinty, when in reality it's the battery's life time their talking about, which is ok with most courts (after all a resonable person would know that no battery will be able to hold a charge untill they day they die). <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#40 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-06-24 10:07:45
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
<b>#39</b> "None-1a" wrote...
<QUOTE>after all a resonable person would know that no battery will be able to hold a charge untill the day they die</QUOTE>

It heavily depends on how fast you drive :) <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#41 by "None-1a"
2000-06-24 10:11:46
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#40</b> "PiRaMidA" wrote...
<QUOTE>It heavily depends on how fast you drive :) </QUOTE>

And way makes you stop:)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#42 by "None-1a"
2000-06-24 10:12:27
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#41</b> "None-1a" wrote...
<QUOTE>And way makes you stop:)</QUOTE>

O crap that's should be what makes you stop (I guess I need some sleep)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#43 by "G-Man"
2000-06-24 10:31:26
jonmars@shiftlock.org http://www.shiftlock.org
You can recharge batteries pretty easily... just add water

 - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#44 by "None-1a"
2000-06-24 10:44:06
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#43</b> "G-Man" wrote...
<QUOTE>


You can recharge batteries pretty easily... just add water

-
[g.man]</QUOTE>

That works up to a point with older batteries (you still hit a point where it will not work any longer), you can buy a complete electrolight solution, however this really only applies to pre 70s batteries so the stuff damn hard to find now. Also the vast majority of batteries sold not are totaly sealed so there is no way short of tearing the thing appart to get water in there.  

O and to the guy having to replace every thing each year, try going with a race battery they're a little more expeincive but normaly out put double what a normal one would (they can also completly discharge and recharge several hundred times), you might also want to set up your alternater to a heavy duty model. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#45 by "Brad Wernicke"
2000-06-24 11:08:44
bjw@3dportal.com http://www.dukeworld.com
<quote>I was going to bring up the striking similarity between CDROM.com and this email service, but Vale and others already have.

In CDROM.com's case it's even worse because CDROM.com agreed to allow different companies to use their services as a backbone. These companies came to depend on that service and it was a working relationship</quote>

I was just going to stay out of this Wieder, but CDROM.COM has taken alot of shit over this entire charade, and I think it's pretty pitiful.

First off cdrom.com did not even know 3D Realms had its own directory there. I had run the /3drealms directory there for over 3 years now. I allowed 3D Realms to have the /3drealms/3drealms directory there, this so that 3DR would not be asked to pay anything for the space and bandwidth. Basically, I did this as a favor to 3DR.

Then 3DR has the balls to take a mild shot at them publicly on the web site. Pretty damn lame considering that the terrabytes of bandwidth that 3DR used for free over the past year or so for absolutely no cost.

You are over your head on this one Wieder, and are best off keeping your mouth closed without knowing everything I do about this situation.

Brad Wernicke
#46 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-06-24 14:14:11
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
well why dont you run extra cabling to the boot (trunk), and store a second battery (or several there).

As for your altenator, somethings very fucked up if they keep popping diodes, look at stepping up to a higher rated one.

actually, Id suggest taking the car into a local ICE supplier and getting them to give you some advice, as at least over hear The ICEMAN chain do some heavy duty uprates on the stereos (2kW rating anyone?) and keep the cars 'usable'

Ds

(ICE = in car entertainment)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#47 by "BarneyQue"
2000-06-24 14:20:22
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
<b>#45</b> "Brad Wernicke" wrote...
<QUOTE>

You are over your head on this one Wieder, and are best off keeping your mouth closed without knowing everything I do about this situation.

Brad Wernicke


</QUOTE>

I wouldn't be at all upset if you were to share more of that info if at all possible. The more info we have on the table, the  more likely it is we can all come to the same conculsion.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "Andy"
2000-06-24 14:45:53
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#47</b>, BarneyQue:
<QUOTE>
I wouldn't be at all upset if you were to share more of that info if at all possible. The more info we have on the table, the more likely it is we can all come to the same conculsion.
</QUOTE>
Not that I expect people to take my word on this -- you shouldn't really take <b>anyone's</b> word -- but from what I know, Brad is justified in what he is saying.

But as I can't tell you why, I guess it isn't worth much.
#49 by "BarneyQue"
2000-06-24 15:19:15
BarneyQue@hotmail.com http://N/A
<b>#48</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>

<B>#47</B>, BarneyQue:

<quote>
I wouldn't be at all upset if you were to share more of that info if at all possible. The more info we have on the table, the more likely it is we can all come to the same conculsion.
</quote>
Not that I expect people to take my word on this -- you shouldn't really take <B>anyone's</B> word -- but from what I know, Brad is justified in what he is saying.

But as I can't tell you why, I guess it isn't worth much.


</QUOTE>

I don't doubt what he's saying is true. I agree, the CDROM is unfairly getting shafted by some people, but I'd like more info so I can judge for myself.

I find it really annoying when people make publicly say things like 'if you knew what I knew', and then don't say anything.  If you know something, you can't say, keep the carrot in your pocket.  

Now I have to ask you the same thing since you just made more or less the same type of comment that Brad did, without filling in the details.

Since you've already said you cant tell, how about just telling why you can't say anything?


<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#50 by "Andy"
2000-06-24 15:32:37
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#49</b>, BarneyQue:
<QUOTE>
Since you've already said you cant tell, how about just telling why you can't say anything?
</QUOTE>
Because the person who gave me the information didn't want me to give it out, presumably because people would know where it had come from.

As much as I'd like to tell everyone about everything, sometimes I can't. Believe me, it bugs me more than it bugs you, but that's the way it has to be. Trust is everything.

But don't get me wrong -- I do NOT have the full story here. In fact, I know there's a lot of stuff that I probably won't find out. But I know enough to <i>vaguely</i> support what Brad <i>vaguely</i> said! ;-)
#51 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-06-24 15:52:20
sgt_hulka@yahoo.com http://www.hulka.com
TRADEWARS:

What we're doing right now is starting a
grass roots dev team of TW fans to create a killer version of Tradewars.
 
What we DON'T want to do is update it to the point where it's unplayable, uncool, and dorky.  We have had multiple offers from big companies to do just that.  Basically they'll give us X amount of $$, slap the Tradewars
name on a project that we have little to do with, and that frightens us.  We dont' want the
name tarnished.  We have a lot of history with this game. I ran a BBS for 5 years, ran TW on the board, and I know the drawing power of the game.  It's a highly addictive, strategic game and it already has a huge fan base, why screw up a good thing.
#52 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-06-24 16:09:23
darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
I confess .. I cant remember Tradewar ..

anyone got a link to expose its n34tn355 ?


/me goes back and plays some more nethack




DS
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#53 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-06-24 16:23:40
sgt_hulka@yahoo.com http://www.hulka.com
http://www.eisonline.com/TradeWars
#54 by "Brad Wernicke"
2000-06-24 22:27:24
bjw@3dportal.com http://www.dukeworld.com
3D Realms made a business decision. They did not want to pay, so they found someone else (FilePlanet) who would provide the services for free.

We run a number of 3D Realms game sites, ie: Dukeworld, Wangsdojo, Maxypane, etc. I am fairly disgusted at how they have handled the whole situation (and they know it).

3D Realms is THE TOUGHEST gaming company in the industry to cover without me causing them problems, so if I cause them problems, it can only get worse.

But I am not gonna let Wieder make it sound like cdrom.com fucked 3DR over somehow. Sad though that a small network like mine can put up a few bucks to keep a kickass ftp service, and 3D Realms can not even afford to split the cost of the service with us who have supported them long and hard in so many ways it is unbelievable leaving us to pick up almost the entire tab, which is fine with me. Atleast we know where we stand with them.

My days of ass-kissing any developer are now over. I've been schooled by the best of them. That being said, I have alot of respect for alot of people over at 3D Realms, and they make kickass games.

The bottom line is, it's business. Like it or not.

So endeth my rant.
#55 by "Charlie Wiederhold"
2000-06-24 23:28:02
charliew@3drealms.com
<quote>I was just going to stay out of this Wieder, but CDROM.COM has taken alot of shit over this entire charade, and I think it's pretty pitiful.

First off cdrom.com did not even know 3D Realms had its own directory there. I had run the /3drealms directory there for over 3 years now.</quote>

Slow down.

I'm talking about GSI when I discuss the business that uses it as a backbone.

3D Realms using it for mirroring our files is to me similar to a user uploading thier maps. Just on a larger scale.

So, no... I'm not in over my head, I guess I just didn't make myself clear enough on what I was talking about.

Had you even known what I was talking about in reference to the entire concept of the situation, you wouldn't have gotten your panties in a bunch. I agree that CDROM.com should have started charging. I think they did what they had to do and hold no ill will towards them. You would know this if you read back through the actual thread about the topic.

However, compared to an email service that changes management and cancels it service, I think the CDROM.com situation is more troubling.

So, thank you for your rant, but you went off at the wrong time this time Brad.

Charlie Wiederhold
#56 by "Brad Wernicke"
2000-06-25 00:04:19
bjw@3dportal.com http://www.dukeworld.com
God this feels like the old days at USENET Wieder.
#57 by "flamethrower"
2000-06-25 00:05:42
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
Brad, as a LONG time user of CDROM, especially the Q1 scene, I'd like to say: "thanks". :)
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#58 by "Charlie Wiederhold"
2000-06-25 00:25:52
charliew@3drealms.com
Old days of USENET?

Yeah, I think I remember you going off without knowing the full story several times then too.

Hopefully eventually you'll understand that I agree with you and will be able to put what I said in context of the topic at hand. If you disagree with me on <b>that</b>, then I'm all for discussing it.

I haven't given CDROM.com any "shit", and support their decision. Just because the webmaster of the company I work for doesn't agree with me doesn't suddenly make me have the same opinion as him, so it's understandable that I'm going to get annoyed when I'm roasted for his opinion and "mild attack"

I spent a lot of time trying to be impartial with you Brad, listening to your complaints, even when I disagreed with them. Being honest and offering suggestions. Thank you for effectively flushing all of that effort down the toilet.

Next time you have a bone to pick with 3DR, please try to pick it with the people who are actually cause you your headaches, not the first person you see that you can publically target.

Charlie Wiederhold
#59 by "Brad Wernicke"
2000-06-25 07:12:15
bjw@3dportal.com http://www.dukeworld.com
Wieder, do you know what? You are 100% correct. I feel like a bit of an ass here on this.

I make some valid points about how things went with 3DR, but you never did indicate that you back/did not back the way they handled things. It is pretty clear to me that you agree with what I said earlier.

Hope the damage done with you is not irreversable, I honestly did not understand what your original post meant.

I guess I will eat crow on this one big time. The timing on all this was crappy though, as we got a big phatt invoive from Digital River (cdrom.com) for June and July on Friday that is due immediately. What we pay them every month will basically wipe out any profit we make for the rest of this year :D

I am edgy, aggravated, and pissed off, and you got caught in the cross-fire.

Brad Wernicke
#60 by "Charlie Wiederhold"
2000-06-26 09:18:16
charliew@3drealms.com
Thank you, Brad.

Charlie Wiederhold
#61 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-06-27 19:32:52
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
You quoting Rocky Horror, Charlie?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#62 by "flamethrower"
2000-06-27 20:25:29
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
Shhhh, damnit! ;)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#63 by "Charlie Wiederhold"
2000-06-27 21:47:39
charliew@3drealms.com
Damnit... Janet!
#64 by ""
2000-08-08 04:29:26
<a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/12422.html">feces</a>
#65 by G-Man
2004-09-23 08:12:31
I am an asshole.
#66 by Greg
2004-09-23 23:35:27
The feces post was more interesting.

こんにちは
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