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T O P I C
Trailer Trash
October 28th 2002, 10:16 CET by Marsh Davies

Don’t know about you, but I’m pretty much addicted to Apple’s movie trailers page. I view pretty much every single trailer that appears there, except the ones described as romantic comedies starring Richard Gere, or feel-good tear-jerkers with Robin Williams, which generally make me want to impale myself with my keyboard.

One thing I’ve noticed from the recent batch of movies, is how depressingly, irredeemably and wholly crap the trailers for horror films are. Take two recent examples: They and Darkness Falls. Besides the fact that these two movies are based on practically identical paper thin concepts (probably being the result of some disaffected employee leaving Columbia for Miramax, or vice versa), they completely suck any kind of tension out of the films by over-explaining the plot. Darkness Falls in particular, tries to cram too much unnecessary information – the entire of the annoying pseudo-sinister deepthroat voice-over could be taken out; the viewer doesn’t need to know the name of the town, or the cliché bits of prologue that should become apparent were they to watch the movie. All that’s needed is a bit of enticement – a slice of the tension from the film. By the end of the trailer, you know all there is to know about the film, except perhaps how it ends, and, given that the film seems to be unimaginatively stuck in its genre, there are only so many paths that could take.

An example of a good movie trailer?… How about 25th Hour? Okay, so the nipple hardening cast and crew biases me towards it already, but, this aside, it tells you just enough to know what the very basic premise is for the movie – but not where it’s going with it – and gives you an insight into the texture of the film without explaining all the hows and wherefores of it as though you were some squint-eyed inbred who’s too busy blowing spit-bubbles to really concentrate on the trailer.

That’s just my opinion. See what you think. Genre issues aside, what makes you want to go and see a film? Where does the fine balance lie between advertising your movie successfully and destroying its art? Where does the directorial control over trailers lie, and where should it lie? Should Gandalf’s return have been shown in the trailer for Two Towers, or did that give away the most important fucking plot revelation, evar(!!!111)? Name some good trailers, and some crap ones you’ve seen recently.

And before Bailey says it: Haggle gaggle, I’m an armchair film critic.


I know, I know; it’s not a computer game related topic, but things haven’t been buzzing here lately, so you can suck on my chewy one… or vote it off. Whichever you prefer.
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#1 by Matt Davis
2002-10-28 10:18:21
http://looroll.com
What?

"But thanks to Matt's powers of insinuation, I haven't worn said pants (in the British sense) in over a month... and I've never felt more alive!" - Bailey
#2 by Bezzy
2002-10-28 10:33:35
painberry@hotmail.com http://www.antifactory.org
For me, a trailer needs to only outline the basic premise, any notable directing/acting talents, AND EVERY GOOD JOKE IN THE MOVIE SO I DON'T HAVE TO WATCH MARTIN LAWRENCE FUMBLE HIS WAY THROUGH ANOTHER "MY CAREER IS NOT OVER, YET, BIATCH!" FLICK.

Does this topic apply to game demos, too?

What are good examples of demos that give away too much (so you're fulfilled without the full game) or too little (badly representative of the full product)?

My only problem with Bezzy is, truly and honestly, about one third of his longer, passionate posts make no sense to me.  I don't necessarily agree or disagree, I just literally can't parse them.  - Hugin
#3 by Creole Ned
2002-10-28 10:33:38
The trailer that forever sealed in my mind that a crap movie can look good in 30-60 seconds was the one for Star Trek V. I was relatively excited to go see that movie back in 1989 and what did I get? Uhura doing a fan dance and Spock frickin' singing songs around the campfire.

The recent trailer for Ghost Ship falls into the "no need to see the movie now" category. Especially nice when the movie is a thriller. Not anymore, kids!

The clip for Seinfeld's Comedian (which is not even from the movie) ranks as one of the funniest I've ever seen. It lampoons trailers, naturally.

So yeah, you gets yer good, you gets your bad. Mostly bad, it seems.

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#4 by Ashiran
2002-10-28 10:34:05
Worst trailer ever: Star Trek Nemesis.
If you watch that trailer you know EXACTLY how the movie will go and how it will end. They even show the scene where the final badguy dies. Dumb fucks.

"This is planetcrap, where we nuke everything from orbit." - Bailey
#5 by UglyBob
2002-10-28 10:34:20
Bah?
#6 by Ashiran
2002-10-28 10:34:46
ent trailer for Ghost Ship falls into the "no need to see the movie now" category.

I concur with this one aswell.

"This is planetcrap, where we nuke everything from orbit." - Bailey
#7 by Bezzy
2002-10-28 10:38:10
painberry@hotmail.com http://www.antifactory.org
If I remember correctly, The Matrix trailer provided just enough for intrigue without spoiling anything. I was thinking espionage and government/illuminati conspiracies.

I won't comment on the film itself.

My only problem with Bezzy is, truly and honestly, about one third of his longer, passionate posts make no sense to me.  I don't necessarily agree or disagree, I just literally can't parse them.  - Hugin
#8 by lwf
2002-10-28 10:38:37
Master of Disguise.

Like a valentine laced around an icepick
#9 by Your Friend
2002-10-28 10:49:50

Should Gandalf’s return have been shown in the trailer for Two Towers, or did that give away the most important fucking plot revelation, evar(!!!111)?


Cmon, everyone who has seen LOTR: FOTR has either read the books or knows some mouth-breathing geek who has and recites from them often enough that Gandalf's "don't call it a comeback, I been here for years" return would have only surprised a small percentage of the movie-watching population.  And these are likely the same people who would have just gotten confused and asked the person next to them "didn't he die last time" like 10 times loudly, annoying the fuck out of me, so fuck 'em.

Personally, I rather enjoy watching trailers.  I try never to arrive late to a film, not so much to ensure good seating but because I don't want to miss the trailers (playing up on the big screen).  Yes, there are instances where too much is given away in a trailer (I think the worst example here wasn't Two Towers, but 'What Lies Beneath'), but many are good and entertaining. Of course, as Ned mentioned, they can sometimes mask the shittiness ('xXx' springs to mind, for movies in the recent past) of the movie they are representing, which maybe isn't a good thing.
#10 by Marsh Davies
2002-10-28 10:57:38
www.verbalchilli.com
Yeah, what about game demos? These usually seem to be shoddy snippets of alpha, rather than an attempt to show off the best bits (with some notable exceptions). Game designers of the 'Crap: what was the reasoning behind what content you put in any demos you've produced?

Why do you think we've got these different standards between films and games re: trailers. I mean if a movie trailer had bits of soundstage leaking into the picture, or wireframe ogres ("They'll be rendered when we go gold!") it would get a less warm reception (unless it was marketed as a "behind the scenes" thang), but the game community is much more open-minded, allowing themselves to imagine the final product, and overlook the bugs and errors.

Example: Hitman 2 demo. No in-game saving allowed; seems a bizarre choice of limitation, because it actually makes the demo impossible to complete, and not a lot of fun. But I'm able to imagine that the game would be a lot of fun were this feature there.

#11 by Matt Davis
2002-10-28 11:11:05
http://looroll.com
Cannot, should not compare Movie Trailers to Games Demos, they're not comparable. Stop it, it's not big or clever.

Games Trailers that show the gameplay in movie (avi etc) format are comparable however.

"But thanks to Matt's powers of insinuation, I haven't worn said pants (in the British sense) in over a month... and I've never felt more alive!" - Bailey
#12 by Terata
2002-10-28 11:28:02
I have to agree with YF, I dig movie trailers quite a bit.  They sometimes do just blatantly give away plot points that don't seem necessary, but they certainly don't leave me bored most of the time.  Admittedly, whenever it's a screwball comedy you can assume you've seen everything important already.  

Trailers have gotten considerably more effective over the years in my opinion.  Whenever I look at one on a DVD for a movie from the mid-80s or whatever I'm left decidedly underwhelmed.

On something of a tangent, a lot of the recent trailers have been snagging tracks off of Unearthed, by ES Posthumus.  Really cool stuff and so far as I'm aware you can only get it online.
#13 by Huge Wood Farmer
2002-10-28 11:44:49
lwf,

Man, did I ever get fucked on that. Saw the trailer, thought it was going to be great.

No.

Whoever directed/edited that trailer deserves one FUCK of a raise.

Baby Jesus is inconsolable. -Warren Marshall
#14 by "Mank"
2002-10-28 11:50:41
Marsh:
because it actually makes the demo impossible to complete,..


I played both the demo and the full game. But I have never known of a save feature to have anything to do with the actual gameplay dynamics of any title.....*shrug*.. never have been a big fan of the "save every time I kill a bad guy" style of play. I finished the demo in about an hour, never even knew the save feature wasnt functional. But I can sure appreciate the way the save system was implemented in the full game.

Trailers have never bothered me in theaters, something about experiencing them on the big screen makes them watchable. What irks me more than anything is when I buy a movie to watch at home, only to be forced to watch upwards of 5 minutes of trailers for movies I have already seen before the main attraction starts.
#15 by Huge Wood Farmer
2002-10-28 11:53:38
Super Troopers, despite having one of the worst trailers in recorded history, was a damned funny film.

Go see now!

Jackson Pollock was a SHITTY artist - I don't care what the FUCK you damn hippies say. I can pour paint in my asshole and fart some damn better paintings than that fucker.
#16 by Matt Davis
2002-10-28 11:55:25
http://looroll.com
Disney should be severely punished for making DVDs that you can't fast forward through 20 minutes of trailers before the actual film.

"But thanks to Matt's powers of insinuation, I haven't worn said pants (in the British sense) in over a month... and I've never felt more alive!" - Bailey
#17 by Russ
2002-10-28 12:34:14
Movie studios owe you nothing!

He's clear in his mind, but his soul is mad.
#18 by jafd
2002-10-28 12:59:15
That trailer for 25th Hour made me want to read the book.

I rarely watch trailers now. All too often, they spoil the movie. The best movie-going experiences I've ever had have been when a friend plops my ass down and says, "Watch this! Now!" and refuses to tell me anything about the movie whatsoever.

"The troll is doing an Olaf impersonation! Hit him with fruits and various meats."
#19 by Russ
2002-10-28 13:06:00
Marsh: The horror movies you mentioned didn't hook me either. Have you seen the trailer for Dreamcatcher? It seems a bit more interesting than the others. As far as the Two Towers trailer, I think having Gandalf included may be a good way to bring people back who don't know the whole story. He is a likeable character after all and people will want to see him again. I am more troubled by the appearance of Gollum and especially Treebeard in the trailer. Hopefully, they'll be able to improve the appearance of those and any other CG effects. The new characters look like good additions as well, especially Eowyn. I saw the trailer for 25th hour as well and liked it. Just knowing it had Spike Lee directing and Edward Norton starring would probably have been enough for me to see it anyway.
Much like games, the decision the see a movie shouldn't be based on a preview. Trusted critics and word of mouth will serve you much better.

Did anyone else lose interest in Catch Me if You Can after seeing the trailer? That was disappointing.

He's clear in his mind, but his soul is mad.
#20 by Huge Wood Farmer
2002-10-28 13:07:18
I know a lot of people that are adament about trailers not giving away any plot details, but I think that most trailers don't give away an unreasonable amount of plot.

Maybe I'm just not jaded enough.

Jackson Pollock was a SHITTY artist - I don't care what the FUCK you damn hippies say. I can pour paint in my asshole and fart some damn better paintings than that fucker.
#21 by Matt Davis
2002-10-28 13:11:47
http://looroll.com
I think theres a happy balance, but there are too many films giving too much away in the trailers, but this could infact be related to the small fact that thats all the decent footage in the film.

"But thanks to Matt's powers of insinuation, I haven't worn said pants (in the British sense) in over a month... and I've never felt more alive!" - Bailey
#22 by Marsh Davies
2002-10-28 14:52:05
www.verbalchilli.com
Russ - yeah, Dreamcatcher looked above-par. Sounds a bit like The Thing, just without all the gloopy head-walking stuff. But again, the deep throat voice-over at the beginning is a real turn-off: couldn't they have sampled a part from the movie where this is explained? I'm sure it must do at some point, at least in part.

#23 by PrfBrain
2002-10-28 14:55:52
brain@arn.net
I for one look forward to seeing trailers unless they're so craptastic to give away the whole flick. The 25th hour trailer is really good. I also liked the trailer for Interview With The Assasin. Ghost Ship lived up to it's trailer for any that give a damn. *Sigh*, love being so desperate for a new movie to see anything.

Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you.
#24 by Hugin
2002-10-28 15:54:05
lmccain@nber.org
I enjoy a really good trailer as a seperate thing from the movie itself.  I especially enjoy trailers that advertise the movie in some fashion, without being made up of the movie itself, for example, the trailer for Comedian, or the trailer for Austin Powers, the Spy Who Shagged Me (the Star Wars spoof one)

What I deeply hate are trailers that purport to show a great scene or line of dialogue in the movie, and then you see the movie and it's not there.
#25 by Warren Marshall
2002-10-28 16:17:52
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Worse than trailers are DVD menus that want to show you half the movie while you're trying to figure out how to PLAY the damn movie.

"Quit whining you haven't done anything wrong because, frankly, you haven't done much of anything."
#26 by Matt Davis
2002-10-28 16:39:13
http://looroll.com
There should be a course in good dvd menu design AND what can be allowed to be called an extra feature, its not difficult to make good menus, I've done three dvds myself.

I don't call 'interactive menus' an extra feature personally, nor dvd-rom extras which require you to install AOL Time Warners piece of shit software.

"But thanks to Matt's powers of insinuation, I haven't worn said pants (in the British sense) in over a month... and I've never felt more alive!" - Bailey
#27 by Warren Marshall
2002-10-28 16:54:05
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
It seems that DVD menu designers are forgetting the cardinal rule of UI design ... the UI is an obstacle.  I'm not here to see your UI, I'm here to watch the contents of the DVD.  Don't get in my way.

"Quit whining you haven't done anything wrong because, frankly, you haven't done much of anything."
#28 by Greg
2002-10-28 16:57:37
I'm not sure I ever bought a DVD for the extras. I just prefer the better picture quality and generally cheaper price.

"I am not a mouse! This thing can't hurt me! Ha ha, the peanut butter is mine!!!" - Lydia Lu
#29 by Matt Davis
2002-10-28 17:05:17
http://looroll.com
Warren,

Exactly, DVD menus aren't supposed to be an exploration arty experience, they're there to do a job, by far the best menus are the ones that are extremely simple with the menu by default on 'play movie'.

"But thanks to Matt's powers of insinuation, I haven't worn said pants (in the British sense) in over a month... and I've never felt more alive!" - Bailey
#30 by LPMiller
2002-10-28 17:13:25
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
to get through disney trailers, you hit the menu button...at least on any disney film DVD'd in the last year or so.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#31 by Marsh Davies
2002-10-28 17:18:12
www.verbalchilli.com
On the one hand I'd prefer completely non-invasive DVDs, but the menu for Zoolander, whilst it does get in the way of the movie a bit, has me pissing myself. Ben Stiller's in-character explanation of the menu, is a worthwhile extra in itself.

"Welcome to the world of de-vuh-de!"

What really gets on my tits are the menus, like the one on Monsters Inc, for example, that have a really short looped piece of music. You'd think they'd be able to afford sampling a slightly larger chunk of music, so it doesn't grate quite so much.

#32 by Ergo
2002-10-28 17:19:32
A lot of older DVDs defaulted to Dolby Digital 2.0 instead of 5.1, which forced me to navigate through one or two extra menus before starting the movie. Fortunately, that no longer seems to be the case with newer releases.

Glavin.

DVDs
#33 by MCorleone
2002-10-28 17:27:26
"Jeepers Creepers" had the worst fucking DVD Menu evar.  I actively tried to remain ignorant to the whole plot until I popped the DVD in the tray.  What's the first thing that pops up?  The fucking creature.  It was supposed to be an old-school MONSTER MOVIE, you fuckos!  Don't reveal the creature right away!

The day I get a memo from a boss that says "can u c aobut this 4 me?  thx :)" is the day I move to the woods and become a hermit.  - Shadarr
#34 by MCorleone
2002-10-28 17:45:39
re: Sound - The first thing I do on every DVD is hop to the setup menu to switch to DTS or see if a DVD supports DTS.  DTS Defaulting would be love.

The day I get a memo from a boss that says "can u c aobut this 4 me?  thx :)" is the day I move to the woods and become a hermit.  - Shadarr
#35 by jjohnsen
2002-10-28 17:46:25
http://www.johnsenclan.com
I hate the short audio clip on Monters inc, but that DVD as a whole is pretty cool.  As far as Disney movies go, the Winnie the Pooh VHS has got to be the worst.  It has 18 minutes of previews, history, and advertisements before the movie starts.   First movie I'll transfer to dvd.

I am trying to catch up to Ergo's Dvd collection.
#36 by jjohnsen
2002-10-28 17:49:47
http://www.johnsenclan.com
As far as trailers go, my wife still reminds me of the time I made her run through the parking lot at 7 months pregnant so we wouldn't miss the previews.  I enjoy the previes more than most of the movies I see.  We saw one on Friday with Al Pacino and Colin Ferrell called The Recruit that looked pretty good.

I am trying to catch up to Ergo's Dvd collection.
#37 by MCorleone
2002-10-28 18:03:41
Speaking of Al, did anyone actually see "S1m0n3"?  I was afraid too.  Usually when Hollywood tackles anything digital it's cringeworthy +10.

The day I get a memo from a boss that says "can u c aobut this 4 me?  thx :)" is the day I move to the woods and become a hermit.  - Shadarr
#38 by MCorleone
2002-10-28 18:04:35
TO even.  Apparently when you hand in your grammar nazi badge and gun you become an offender.

The day I get a memo from a boss that says "can u c aobut this 4 me?  thx :)" is the day I move to the woods and become a hermit.  - Shadarr
#39 by Bailey
2002-10-28 18:07:32
Well, Darkness Falls looks incredibly lame, but "They" might actually be kinda cool. Sure, they show way too much about the things in the darkness, but still. I had a pretty intense imagination when I was a kid, so it's pretty easy for me to get into this kind of film, if done reasonably well.

Dare wa tatsujin, biatch??
#40 by Dumdeedum
2002-10-28 18:22:41
http://www.dumdeedum.com
#10 Marsh Davies
Example: Hitman 2 demo. No in-game saving allowed; seems a bizarre choice of limitation, because it actually makes the demo impossible to complete, and not a lot of fun.

Run straight towards the closest door, open, cap bodyguard, take clothes, enter via basement, up into kitchen, up back stairs, right, right, left, right, cap bodyguard, peer through keyhole till boss enters, go in, cap boss, take key. Then exit as you entered, stopping only to open basement room.

In and out in under 5 minutes, 3 kills, 3 headshots, very low aggression and a rating of professional.

"My mother? Let me tell you about my mother..."
#41 by Terata
2002-10-28 18:24:42
The Darkness Falls trailer baffled me -- is there a REASON they're spending all this time explaining the origin of the monster?  And why does the narrator hedge his bet and say they blamed her rather than she did it?
#42 by Warren Marshall
2002-10-28 18:32:13
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Run straight towards the closest door, open, cap bodyguard, take clothes, enter via basement, up into kitchen, up back stairs, right, right, left, right, cap bodyguard, peer through keyhole till boss enters, go in, cap boss, take key. Then exit as you entered, stopping only to open basement room.

In and out in under 5 minutes, 3 kills, 3 headshots, very low aggression and a rating of professional.

The problem is the number of times you have to fail before figuring out this pattern.  The forced failure is the problem.

"Quit whining you haven't done anything wrong because, frankly, you haven't done much of anything."
#43 by Bailey
2002-10-28 18:40:10
In and out in under 5 minutes, 3 kills, 3 headshots, very low aggression and a rating of professional.

Anesthetic the guard when he comes out of the side-gate to piss, go around the back to the garden, climb the ladder, circumvent the walkway, garrotte the boss, return the way you came, stopping to check the basement and confirm the absence of the priest. Five minutes, zero shots, one kill.

Speaking of horrible movie trailers, this one really floored me.

Dare wa tatsujin, biatch??
#44 by yotsuya
2002-10-28 18:45:21
You know who loves trailers. That guy that does the voice over for all of them.

One trailer that comes to mind that sold me on a movie was Moulin Rouge. I had a little interest in the film until I saw how they used modern music in the film. I saw that and my interest was piqued.

A good trailer will get you interested without giving too much away. However, you can usually tell when a trailer has the best parts of the film in it (you notice it's usually comedies that commit this crime?).

Reed Rothchild: Have you seen that Star Wars movie?
Eddie Adams: Yeah, I've seen it four times.
Reed Rothchild: You know, people tell me I kind of look like Han Solo.
#45 by jjohnsen
2002-10-28 18:54:48
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Bailey, when I saw that trailer people were all laughing at the wrong times.

I am trying to catch up to Ergo's Dvd collection.
#46 by Stralutia
2002-10-28 18:55:32
stralutia@hotmail.com None
Dumdeedum

Run straight towards the closest door, open, cap bodyguard, take clothes, enter via basement, up into kitchen, up back stairs, right, right, left, right, cap bodyguard, peer through keyhole till boss enters, go in, cap boss, take key. Then exit as you entered, stopping only to open basement room.

In and out in under 5 minutes, 3 kills, 3 headshots, very low aggression and a rating of professional.


Walk towards the furthest door, open, moon guard, walk out, piss on the floor, hide behind staircase, as guard comes around to follow he trips on your urine, walk out, kick him, take his clothes, clean up the floor with a water arrow, up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, start, pick up fire extinguisher, kill boss, exit through the gaping black hole in the floor and nuke game from orbit.

DVD Movie Menus

Personally I don't mind 'arty' or 'clever' DVD menus.  A good example of such menus can be found on the Memento special edition DVD.  I like when the menus fit the movie as opposed to simply being 'play movie, special features, options, etc.'.  The winnar for most fucked-up, confusing and unintelligable menus would be the limited edition Tool release Salival's DVD companion.  If you've watched it you know what I'm talking about.

Reading: American Psycho by Brett Easton Ellis
#47 by Hugin
2002-10-28 19:02:57
lmccain@nber.org
To amplify on what Stral said:

Don't give your sections weird names.  This is for DVD menus and I see it especially on some websites that are trying to be stylish.

Call the sitemap the sitemap. Don't call it "The Central Cortex"  Call the links page the links page.  Don't call it "Other Galaxies" or some damn thing. Call the multimedia download page the multimedia download page, not "Fever Dreams". Call the setup menu the setup menu, not "Old Testament Chapter One Verse One."  Or whatever.  It may all cleverly fit into whatever high concept theme you have in your head, but it's just confusing and annoying.
#48 by yotsuya
2002-10-28 19:08:43
Also, just as an aside, sorta, I remember a few years ago when Arachnaphobia came out, the trailer I saw played up comedic angle of John Goodman as a bug exterminator, complete with wacky music and funny lines. I saw another trailer for the same film that made it look like an insect horror movie with no comedic moments whatsoever!

Reed Rothchild: Have you seen that Star Wars movie?
Eddie Adams: Yeah, I've seen it four times.
Reed Rothchild: You know, people tell me I kind of look like Han Solo.
#49 by yotsuya
2002-10-28 19:18:51
Most annoying menu I've seen is for Riding In Cars With Boys. If I'm not mistaken, it started off with a very loud police siren that kept going until you chose something. Every time you went back to the main menu, you heard the %@!#% siren.

Reed Rothchild: Have you seen that Star Wars movie?
Eddie Adams: Yeah, I've seen it four times.
Reed Rothchild: You know, people tell me I kind of look like Han Solo.
#50 by Bailey
2002-10-28 19:21:06
jjohnsen

Bailey, when I saw that trailer people were all laughing at the wrong times.

Unless it was mocking laughter, there are no right times.

Dare wa tatsujin, biatch??
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