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Who 0wnz the Server?
September 26th 2002, 09:18 CEST by HiredGoons

Who pays for the bandwidth for all the servers that are displayed in All Seeing Eye?

Are they all provided by philanthropically minded gamers?

Maybe I'm too jaded, but that doesn't seem likely.

More likely scenario: A lot of these servers use corporation or university networks.  Corporations and universities are like blind liquor store owners.  If they knew what was going on underneath their noses, they wouldn't fund it.

And if my experience with blind liquor store owners has taught me anything, it is that for every blind liquor store owner there is always a "helpful" assistant manager who offers to take inventory at the end of the night.

That's what's happening isn't it?

Isn't this freeloading?

Possible interesting twist:  Are publishers/devs freeloading too?  Valve or whoever benefits from this too, don't they?  

Thousands of servers running CS, and it doesn't cost Valve a cent -- that isn't exactly bad for Valve is it?

I'll stop now and wait for the PC regulars to show me the error of my ways.  Or kill me in my sleep.
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#1 by Ashiran
2002-09-26 09:19:25
Your suffering will be legendary.

You fight like a girl.
#2 by lwf
2002-09-26 09:33:17
my buddy oversees the isp portion of a cable company here and runs mad servers off the bandwidth.

I'd like to debate whether cannibalism ought to be grounds for leniency in murders since it is less wasteful
#3 by Ashiran
2002-09-26 09:36:25
This post is somewhat long.

And now for the topic. Yes it is freeloading, no I don't care that it happens. Cause I don't like playing on public servers anyway.
When you join a public server you have a high chance of it being filled with tards. I also noticed that the number of servers with a password has risen considerably. Not really for games like UT2K3 where tardness but more for games like BF1942. The number of private servers for this one is staggering (as is the number of tards). Which leads me to something else I thought about recently.
I noticed a private server of Spelletjesgarnaal in BF1942. So I headed over to the site to see if the password was to found there somewhere. It turned out that only people who had a paid for premium membership to the site had access to the server. And then it hit me.

Why aren't there server subscriptions yet?

I mean I never ever saw something like that. And yet it's brilliant imho. I would gladly pay a small fee to get access to a stable server and get rid of all them kiddies in the process. All the tards can keep playing on the big networks and servers hosted by little Johnny on his 56k modem. And you are on a nice server with a consistent group of people who you get to know over time. Playing with people you know == funx10.

Also I say it doesn't matter that there is freeloading. Atleast half of all the servers currently running is empty anyway. And why should Valve pay for all those servers? Cause it's their game they are responsible for every aspect about it? Hell no. It isn't an MMORPG. Btw, do Big corp and uni networks even pay for used bandwith or just a fixed price a month?

You fight like a girl.
#4 by Neale
2002-09-26 09:46:18
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
my ISP blueyonder is soon going to have subscriber-only servers, in addition to the standard public ones. At the moment, they have a subscription service that allows you to book and launch your own servers for practically every current FPS game out there.

/pimp

signatures are, as I've stated, for perverts
#5 by Stralutia
2002-09-26 09:52:19
stralutia@hotmail.com None
Ashiran

And you are on a nice server with a consistent group of people who you get to know over time. Playing with people you know == funx10.

I agree completely.  But why is this the case?  I think it has a little to do with a combination of the ability to win bragging rights over time, the possibility of learning the other players' tendancies, and the continuity.  By continuity I mean that for example in UT2K3 Bombing Run, after a game is over, it is typically 'over' and done with among the players on a public server.  If you pull something truly amazing in front of some online friends, it will be discussed at a later point (in a chat channel or in game, even days later).  

I think this is why Butter rules.

The Golden Rule of Flaming:
May your flames be witty, insulting, interesting, paradoxical,funny, illogical, caustic, sarcastic, even inconsistent -  but never, ever, let them be boring.
#6 by Dethstryk
2002-09-26 10:19:28
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Ashiran
I mean I never ever saw something like that. And yet it's brilliant imho. I would gladly pay a small fee to get access to a stable server and get rid of all them kiddies in the process.

Until all of the kiddies have their parents buy them subscriptions.
#7 by Matt Davis
2002-09-26 10:21:41
http://looroll.com
Barrysworld are providing subscriber servers now (according to the email I got).

Oh Cannabis!
#8 by deadlock
2002-09-26 10:29:01
http://www.deadlocked.org/
I'm afraid I'm one of the people who is abusing his employer's trust by running a CounterStrike server. Actually, that's not entirely true. We were given an E1 for testing purposes and I'm loadtesting it. Honestly.

"You know what's sad? My balls still haven't shipped. They said that all orders are custom-filled and so could take as much as 2 weeks to ship, but still. SHIP MY BALLS ALREADY!" - BobJustBob. His voice hasn't broken either.
#9 by Ashiran
2002-09-26 10:42:30
#6 by Dethstryk
Until all of the kiddies have their parents buy them subscriptions.

That doesn't really matter much cause the faceless annonymous kiddie isn't faceless annonymous anymore. You know who goes with which account so if someone misbehaves consistently you can just kickban his ass.

Being a tard online relies on nobody knowing who you are.

You fight like a girl.
#10 by m0nty
2002-09-26 10:44:00
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
The simple answer is that leslie 0wnz the server. EOD.
#11 by Matt Davis
2002-09-26 10:49:04
http://looroll.com
if he gets banned he's going to have to explain to mommy why he needs a new account if he keeps doing it.

Oh Cannabis!
#12 by Ashiran
2002-09-26 10:59:32
I do find it funny that Barrysworld and Blueyonder got this idea about the same time as I did. Was there something recently that triggered this idea?

You fight like a girl.
#13 by Matt Davis
2002-09-26 11:05:28
http://looroll.com
Well Barrysworld went under and was purchased by EB last year, EB need it to start making money without relying on clans (who don't have any cash), so they've started charging for webspace, email, ftp access to files and subscriber servers.

Pretty darn cheap too.

Oh Cannabis!
#14 by mgns
2002-09-26 11:19:35
thread low-jack.

I've been thinking about buying a laptop, and right now I'm leaning towards an ibook, the 12,1 inch one with 600mhz and a dvd. Opinions?

professional philosophical level design monkey.
#15 by crash
2002-09-26 11:33:49
from topic:

Isn't this freeloading?

...

yes and no.

yes, in that the users aren't directly supporting it, but no, in that they're indirectly supporting it. really rough analogy, because i'm exhausted: taxes are added to every gallon of gasoline for road maintenance in california, so, technically, i'm getting totally ripped off because i don't use 99.99% of the asphalt in the state that i'm "paying to use"? no.

in regards to corporation networks and the like, the boxes are runnin 24/7 anyway, and MTBF on the hardware is the same whether you're playing games or not. no additional wear/tear. no extra electricity; servers don't need monitors or lights on to run. bandwidth... we've discussed this before, i think, but when you buy in bulk, they assume a certain average or minimum amount of usage. i'd imagine your employees downloading porn and mp3s at work and mass-mailing the stupid fax joke of the day consumes far more bandwidth than a (or even a hundred) 16-32 player server; in fact, it'd probably be damned near invisible in terms of "consumed resources". same with universities.

dunno. it sort of seems like it, but it doesn't really appear to be that significant of a problem or money pit or whatever.

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE
#16 by Darkseid-D
2002-09-26 11:46:55
rogerboal@hotmail.com
Barrysworld, Uk2net, LanArena

all have been doing the rentable/bookable servers for months, hardly an astonishing breakthru that.

ISP`s run their own servers, ClaraNet, Demon.co.uk, Pipex, FreeNet, FreeServe, AOL, NTL, BT all have their own game servers. I know several people running them off business connections (with permission) and off private lines, the folks over at Ars technica have the arsclan.net setup with various individuals running well known servers and paypal donations being encouraged. Amazingly, some game companies even run their own servers too, shocking that, isnt it, then you have global type servers of the type Blizzard runs.

Freeloading? Not really, bandwidth costs are dictated by demand, with the rise of broadband you`re starting to see caps on downloads per month (less than XXgb or you pay $ per gb). People still pay for their connections to be able to connect to these servers, the bandwidth does generally get paid for. Illicit game servers are`nt anywhere near as impacting as illict ftp dumps or warez areas, especially on compromised servers.

Ds

Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
#17 by Matt Davis
2002-09-26 11:47:30
http://looroll.com
RE: thread low-jack.

Couldn't recommend them more you can watch lord of the rings on dvd without having to plug in the power.

Oh Cannabis!
#18 by Your Friend
2002-09-26 11:48:47
This sort of thing has been going on forever, only it used to be MUDs and IRC servers.  

Whether its wrong or not depends very much on each specific case; who ran the server, what type of authority they have over the resources, etc.  

At any rate, its pretty much a non-issue.  The bandwidth freeloading from online game servers is peanuts compared to the amount of unauthorized bandwidth usage that happens due to music, software and video piracy via people running P2P clients and/or straight-out servers at their schools, companies, etc.
#19 by Dethstryk
2002-09-26 12:06:18
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Ashirain:
That doesn't really matter much cause the faceless annonymous kiddie isn't faceless annonymous anymore. You know who goes with which account so if someone misbehaves consistently you can just kickban his ass.

Being a tard online relies on nobody knowing who you are.

"Being a tard" is subjective. Being a nuisance to your team, sure. But being a general newbie and not knowing your way around?
#20 by Ashiran
2002-09-26 13:34:40
General newbies don't misbehave, they just do stupid things. And that never lasts long. If it does last long kick them for being stupid.

You fight like a girl.
#21 by Stralutia
2002-09-26 14:05:42
stralutia@hotmail.com None
Around here, no ISP has instituted bandwidth caps with additional fees passed on to the user if these caps are broken.  So long as this is not the case, what's the problem with running a server off of a university or business pipeline if the effects are going to be negligable?  

If there are caps in place and additional fees levied if these caps are broken, that is a different story. The world may be moving towards pay-for-use internet service, however until that is the case in your area, I see no problem with running a server off of a university pipe so long as it doesn't materially effect the others using the connection who have as much of a right to be there as you do.

The Golden Rule of Flaming:
May your flames be witty, insulting, interesting, paradoxical,funny, illogical, caustic, sarcastic, even inconsistent -  but never, ever, let them be boring.
#22 by Matthew Gallant
2002-09-26 14:13:22
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
Who hownz de Cheefs?

"Is the internet making people less intelligent?"
"You mean like how video cameras cause thrown objects to hit men in the crotch?"
#23 by coda
2002-09-26 14:13:22
http://fragged.org/
I do find it funny that Barrysworld and Blueyonder got this idea about the same time as I did. Was there something recently that triggered this idea?


actually, the idea of pay2play has been around for a while now... whereas there were a lot of GSPs (gaming service providers) doing server rental/booking before, about an year ago the idea of a subscription-only service surfaced (in the uk anyway). Before long, it became apparent who the players will be - BlueYonder, GamesDomain, BarrysWorld, ThrustWorld - all announced services for members only. the downside is that while there are free servers around, most people and 'gamers' would not be willing to dish out cash to play in a private environment. another con is that the vast majority of players out there are either syudents/kids and are unable to pay any more to play in addition to their connection charges. that in itself managed to hold off the launch of the actual subscription launch for most of them who could afford to subsidise a big gaming service anyway - eg. BarrysWorld backed by Elecronics Boutique, GamesDomain by BTopenworld, BlueYonder by its cable customer base... but the trend is set and it will continue ot grow as little by little, GSPs will take the route as City demands it (no1 likes to waste money off bandwith and hosting for nothing and analysts reckon there are lots of money to be made out of online gaming yet). Who knows, it can turn out to be a good thing as it will deter cheats and kiddies from paying for the privillege to annoy people. Its early years =)

Wanna be adored? Go to India and 'moo'
http://fragged.org/
#24 by MCorleone
2002-09-26 14:30:59
I have no problem with the concept, but you better be certain that if you're going to run a server as a business you better know how to run a business.  Once you start charging me you'd better provide a service.  I would expect one company admin/employee online playing on a server 100% of the time to guard against idiots.  If you can provide that then sure, here's my cash.  

If this becomes a lucrative business, though, at some point won't the publishers change the playing field and cut out the possibility of independent servers?  Won't they realize they're giving away a potential cash cow and then lock it up?  I can certainly see that scenario.

<m0nty> ZTSDSTOP LAUGHIN U FIXX0rs
#25 by "Stralutia"
2002-09-26 14:45:00
stralutia@hotmail.com None
If this becomes a lucrative business, though, at some point won't the publishers change the playing field and cut out the possibility of independent servers?  Won't they realize they're giving away a potential cash cow and then lock it up?  I can certainly see that scenario.


Yes.  For further reference, see the development of MUDs into the MMORPG.
#26 by Matt Davis
2002-09-26 14:49:27
http://looroll.com
I have to say that the free services that Jolt, Barrysworld and Blueyonder provide are pretty incredible both with stopping cheaters and general llamas.

Once I'm back on DSL/Cable I intend to sign up for one of the services to see if I can cut down on actually seeing any llamas.

Oh Cannabis!
#27 by jjz
2002-09-26 15:34:35
Why must the noble llama have it's name bersmirched so?
#28 by Neale
2002-09-26 15:35:49
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
blueyonder has an enormous team of game admins, with quite sophisticated systems (i.e. bots that continually scan the servers, and announce in IRC if someone has a stupidly negative score, or if someone changes their name to admin_needed etc) and it generally works quite well. They're also quite quick to support new games, and will always put servers up if a game proves to be popular enough.

signatures are, as I've stated, for perverts
#29 by Neale
2002-09-26 15:36:08
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
I should add though, blueyonder's forums suck. A lot.

signatures are, as I've stated, for perverts
#30 by Xero
2002-09-26 19:02:14
http://novakometa.blogspot.com/
I'm using BFG the service is great so far, just can't figure out how to remote admin my server.

Its currently running the UT2K3 Demo and I have no control over the setup, christ it'll probably be running the full game before I can pick it up.

Is Leslie around? Maybe he can clue me in on how the Web Admin works.

"Every legend, moreover, contains its residuum of truth, and the root function of language is to control the universe by describing it."
-James Baldwin
#31 by NetDisruptor
2002-09-26 19:48:08
No come on paying to play the game online that's just sad unless it's inculded allready like blizzard.
I had to wait forever to get DSL where I live and I pay way to much for not alot and now these sites want me to give them money so I can veiw/play content...?
This is getting exspensive!
Yes I know it will happen but then like MCorleone said I want over the top service and extras.

A little off topic these places like gamespot and fileplanet I have a problem with
I think they are charging the wrong people.
D/l of a game demo or movie is a promotion for that game ,so we then pay to have some one sell us somthing?? It just doesn't seem right..
Take on some more adds , have tournaments, sweepstakes or some volintary form of revanew.
#32 by Charles
2002-09-26 19:53:13
www.bluh.org
Go be cheap somewhere else.  Either that, or play the cheap way, with all the other tards.

"There is a huge difference between disliking somebody - maybe even disliking them a lot - and actually shooting them, strangling them, dragging them through the fields and setting their house on fire. It was a difference which kept the vast majority of the population alive from day to day."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency.
#33 by NetDisruptor
2002-09-26 19:59:38
yeah ok Tard we will see in a few years when it will cost you $50 to get online $50 to use serach engine
$50 to enter the site you fine and then another $50 dollars to download 1 ten of a game.

Nice child like responce thou.
#34 by deadlock
2002-09-26 20:00:28
http://www.deadlocked.org/
NetDisruptor:

You don't have to pay. If you do pay, you get certain advantages, whether it's idiot-free servers on Barrysworld or on-demand access to files on Fileplanet. But, as I said, you don't have to pay. You can get your downloads from Fileshack or play on one of the thousands of free game servers that are out there.

"You know what's sad? My balls still haven't shipped. They said that all orders are custom-filled and so could take as much as 2 weeks to ship, but still. SHIP MY BALLS ALREADY!" - BobJustBob. His voice hasn't broken either.
#35 by Ergo
2002-09-26 20:03:39
#33

What?

Sum Ergo Cogito

DVDs
#36 by NetDisruptor
2002-09-26 20:06:43
deadlock I know that their is still some free thing out thier but for how much longer?

And the bandwith question I would have no problem if people wanted to run a server
most of time they are not in use untill after the office has closed for the day anyway.
#37 by Stralutia
2002-09-26 20:13:25
stralutia@hotmail.com None
The preview button is to the left of the post button.

The Golden Rule of Flaming:
May your flames be witty, insulting, interesting, paradoxical, funny, illogical, caustic, sarcastic, even inconsistent -  but never, ever, let them be boring.
#38 by Ergo
2002-09-26 20:14:40
Don't encourage him.

Sum Ergo Cogito

DVDs
#39 by Stralutia
2002-09-26 20:15:50
stralutia@hotmail.com None
*slowly puts the bait back into my pocket*

Erm, ahem.  Yes.  Nevermind.  Carry on.

The Golden Rule of Flaming:
May your flames be witty, insulting, interesting, paradoxical, funny, illogical, caustic, sarcastic, even inconsistent -  but never, ever, let them be boring.
#40 by MCorleone
2002-09-26 20:18:40
Why do these noise spikes have to mention me?

<m0nty> ZTSDSTOP LAUGHIN U FIXX0rs
#41 by Ashiran
2002-09-26 20:31:59
Your aura was tainted.

You fight like a girl.
#42 by yotsuya
2002-09-26 20:37:50
we will see in a few years when it will cost you $50 to get online $50 to use serach engine
$50 to enter the site you fine and then another $50 dollars to download 1 ten of a game.


But if I have to pay $200 to avoid the likes of you, it will be $200 well spent.....

Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL
#43 by NetDisruptor
2002-09-26 20:43:03
Humm, See I thought this was a thread crafted as a place for discussion and debate.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone in any way.
I did not realize this was a one liner competition.

Many apologies I am truly sorry.
#44 by Ashiran
2002-09-26 20:43:10
Zing!

Also, you fight like a girl.
#45 by Ashiran
2002-09-26 20:43:32
Ah crap I missed.

Also, you fight like a girl.
#46 by Stralutia
2002-09-26 20:44:05
stralutia@hotmail.com None
AGGGHHHH!  IT'S TEH GAY Z0MB13Z0R!!!!!

The Golden Rule of Flaming:
May your flames be witty, insulting, interesting, paradoxical, funny, illogical, caustic, sarcastic, even inconsistent -  but never, ever, let them be boring.
#47 by Ergo
2002-09-26 20:47:34
NetDisruptor--

Look carefully at post #33 and you may understand why you're getting harrassed. Then again, maybe not.

Sum Ergo Cogito

DVDs
#48 by Ashiran
2002-09-26 20:52:37
AGGGHHHH!  IT'S TEH GAY Z0MB13Z0R!!!!!

Yesterday gay vampire, today gay zombie. MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

Also, you fight like a girl.
#49 by deadlock
2002-09-26 20:52:38
http://www.deadlocked.org/
NetDisruptor:

We care! Honestly!

Seriously though, I'm sure you've got some deep insights into the future of the 'net, but if you can't be arsed paying even a modicum of attention to your spelling, maybe doing some quick proofreading or, at the very least, formatting your post in something approaching a readable way, you're just gonna get short thrift from most of us here. PlanetCrap is the new grammar nazis. Says the man who's just written an unnecessarily long sentence.

"You know what's sad? My balls still haven't shipped. They said that all orders are custom-filled and so could take as much as 2 weeks to ship, but still. SHIP MY BALLS ALREADY!" - BobJustBob. His voice hasn't broken either.
#50 by Stralutia
2002-09-26 20:54:29
stralutia@hotmail.com None
Yesterday gay vampire, today gay zombie. MAKE UP YOUR MIND!


Not until you change pictures.

The Golden Rule of Flaming:
May your flames be witty, insulting, interesting, paradoxical, funny, illogical, caustic, sarcastic, even inconsistent -  but never, ever, let them be boring.
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