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T O P I C
Origin:  Making more headway in MMORPGs than anyone else.  Still.
September 22nd 2002, 16:10 CEST by Nova Z

I talked with one of the creators of UO once, and he said that the biggest problem facing any MMORPG is keeping the player past the initial play period.  With most MMORPGs being n00b unfriendly (no matter how hard they try), it makes sense to attack the source of the problem, rather than just slapping a fresh coat of gloss on the 'newbie' areas, and putting in a cheap tutorial.  The source of the problem is the perceived notion that you have more fun at a greater power level.  I use the word 'perceived', because in the current crop of MMORPGs, the game plays almost exactly the same at any given power level.  However, having a greater power level offers you more freedom to explore the world and see the sights.  Which, to me, is one of the greatest appeals of MMORPGs.  Exploring.

I have a habit of not believing I'm the only person that likes things the way I like them.  So I believe that since the idea of preleveled characters appeals to me (greatly, I might add), it will most likely apply to a fair amount of other gamers as well.  Obviously, since Origin has taken these steps, they believe the same thing.  Also, if they are going to the trouble of doing this, I'd imagine they believe it'll help get players past that initial play period.

So I wonder, how long will it be before they realize that selling characters at the maximum power level would be worthwhile to people as well?  I know I'd be greatly interested in the idea of buying a fully leveled character in any game, for a reasonable price.  

From there it's a relatively small step to abolishing power levels completely.  The focus in MMORPGs should be materialism and wealth, and not statistics and combat damage.  Removing the levelling systems altogether would make for a much more enjoyable experience across the spectrum.  The biggest benefit would be that the game would be much more accessible to casual players.  However, you could still maintain the levelling systems when it comes to item creations in the game, since that aspect doesn't impede the player's ability to explore the world, and defend himself in combat situations.

This wouldn't rule out the hardcores either, if you adapted the game to make wealth important.  So while a hardcore could sit back in his castle surrounded by piles of gold and rare trophies, a casual gamer could still just wander about the world, having the same experience as that hardcore.  Meanwhile, the hardcore can continue to feel himself superior, just by showing off his wealth.  Gold plated swords, absurdly detailed ornamental armor, whatever.  But when the time comes when that hardcore wants to try and PK the newbie, well, if they are on even footing, it makes the game all the more enjoyable.

It's only the first step, but I applaud Origin for taking it.

(Other topics to argue include the effect on players who sell characters/items on ebay)
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Origin:  Making more headway in MMORPGs than anyone else.  Still.

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#1 by Dinglehoffen
2002-09-22 16:14:52
Fanny Fungus
First post, you diaper-nannies. Suck it down.

"Woo-hoo! Do NOT go in there!"
#2 by Leslie Nassar
2002-09-22 16:21:01
http://departmentofinternets.com
So... what's this first step Origin is taking?

I just want to stand on land...
#3 by m0nty
2002-09-22 16:24:04
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Pre-levelled chars is all very well, but what about the phat lewt? I thought the part of the point of having an uber character was that you had the chance to quest along the way to get the best items, including Epic Items and such. What would be the starting equipment for one of these pre-levelled chars?
#4 by Leslie Nassar
2002-09-22 16:26:33
http://departmentofinternets.com
Oh wait, I see it now.  The useful information is in the topic summary, not in the topic itself.  Silly me.

I just want to stand on land...
#5 by jjohnsen
2002-09-22 16:26:52
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Wouldn't the super-duper characters have the strenght to get their own cool stuff m0nty?

I am trying to catch up to Ergo's Dvd collection.
#6 by m0nty
2002-09-22 16:32:26
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Do they at least start out with pants? Maybe a dagger to kill those pesky rabbits?? I notice the UO site says the char starts with an "empty bank box" - this means they're skint, presumably.
#7 by DeeC
2002-09-22 16:43:24
A RPG without a levelling system? Sounds like crap in my ears. Most ppl I know that play mmorpg's LIVE for that next level. If you take away character development? Even sims online would be more rpg than that...

"No man should have to be" - Ping Wo Me
#8 by Dinglehoffen
2002-09-22 16:43:26
Fanny Fungus
Earth and Beyond is the only attractive pay-to-play game out there. The rest suck mangos through scrub oak.

"Woo-hoo! Do NOT go in there!"
#9 by Petri Jarvilehto
2002-09-22 17:08:05
petri@remedy.fi http://www.remedy.fi
It's only the first step, but I applaud Origin for taking it.


So this is nothing like trying to milk a dead cow, right?
#10 by Ashiran
2002-09-22 17:53:38
Earth and Beyond is the only attractive pay-to-play game out there.

Attractive in looks maybe.

On the subject of leveling. Taking leveling away is stupid. Most people want that one custom tweaked character. Building it up is part of te experience. However I do agree that the leveling should be laid more on unique skills for a certain class/type rather then more dmg/hp/mp/ac. If they where to abolish the insane difference in strenght between a lvl 1 and a lvl 50 things would be a lot better. I remember in DaoC that a lvl 60 char could wipe out dozens of lvl 30-40 chars singlehandedly. That is just wrong and only promotes lame ass PK play.

In real life would a l33t swordfighter be able to defeat a dozen of average swordfighters? No way. It ain't the movies.

You fight like a girl.
#11 by chris
2002-09-22 18:57:25
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.cerebraldebris.com
It'd be like trying to Milk a dead cow if UO wasn't still making them money, but it is.

-chris
#12 by ProStyle
2002-09-22 19:52:15
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
People have sold their own personally built/aquired characters/items before, so why wouldn't it make sense that the game devs would start doing it themselves just in a more streamlined fashion? I personally don't think there's anything appealing to going through pointless click fests to get to some higher level because clicking on a toad for the first 30 minutes of the game and clicking on a toad with wings for the next hour is really just not all that exciting to me. Now, if I could just wander around the whole world and get to enjoy the artwork and areas that I would have never had the patience to reach before, that might be cool.... if the game still wasn't a pointless click fest. Oh, and, buying the character costs almost as much as the boxed game - not to mention the subscription fee.
#13 by Bailey
2002-09-22 20:27:22
Dingle

Earth and Beyond is the only attractive pay-to-play game out there. The rest suck mangos through scrub oak.

That is the trolliest troll that ever trolled the troll town of Trollington, in the burrough of Little Trollshire, England (aka Troll Land).

I've beta'd an awful lot of MMOGs, but E&B has to be one of the more tiresome, newbie-punishing, fedex missions are go, level treadmill-focused of the bunch. While visually sparkly, it has about as much depth and viable longevity as a thimble-sized puddle of piss in the Sahara desert. Sure, there's no other MMOGs out there that can claim any originality or any appeal other than stimulating the push-level-get-pellet side of the human psyche, but E&B? Blargh.

ProStyle

d00d, do u no where teh winged toad spawn?! Send tell plz!!

Ossified for your pleasure.
#14 by Foodbunny
2002-09-22 20:30:50
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
But E&B still bores me less than Asheron's Call 2.

It won't have any impact on DNF.  Nothing really does.
#15 by Bailey
2002-09-22 20:39:22
And this makes me very sad.

Ossified for your pleasure.
#16 by Darkseid-D
2002-09-22 21:01:57
rogerboal@hotmail.com
/me points out Maximum level in DAOC is 50.

/me points out that its stupidly easy to level, kit up and butcher the other realms with Midgard as theyve got the most complete realm in terms of drops, quests (like teaching you to party!) and advantageous characters (what insta cast on that speed burst AND able to instantly cast mesmerise spells, whilst the other realms take 2-3 seconds, result!). Meaning Midgard tend to be both overpowered and play in a zerg like fashion where theres so many of them they just swarm the other realms. Albions not far behind them in many regards and has almost as many players, poor Hibernia, the unfinished realm has the best atmosphere and friendliest players and tends to work as a team. Its irritating being a Hibbie and watching the other realms churn out level 50 players all the time, whilst your level 50s take forever to attain. Lets not even mention darkness falls or how the albion and midgard entryways  and routes to the demon lord are relatively simple, Albion has a bridge, Midguard a straight line with a big platform in the centre, Hibernia has thin walkways with lots of 90 degree turns, try navigating them with  50 other players on scree and its stupidly easy to lag (network or screen) and walk off the edge.

However with a bit of organisation, Hibernia is managing to hold its own on Prydwen in Europe, mostly down to the top guilds working together (rather than the albion guilds who tend to barge in and grief play the `lesser` guilds).  Now we`re starting to see converts coming over from Albion and a handful of Midgards, joining up with Hibernia to have more fun playing the game.  I think the stats came back as Midgard 4500 players, ALbion 3800 players, Hibernia 2000 players fairly recently.  It was all too common to see a level 50 skald munch his way through a dozen level 40s simply because of insta casts and their inability to actually hit something that much above their level.  Since that point however, the patches have reduced the disparity, but its not uncommon for Hibernia to get steamrollered with zerg like tactics (mongolian clusterfucks where youre outnumbered 2-3 against 1).  Maybe its the scenery but the Mids and Albs tend to spend more time in Hibernia frontiers attacking than they do attacking each other (what fun facing off 8000 odd players with 1/4 that number).

Oh well, maybe Hibernia will get finished one of these days.

As for preleveled characters, that might be interesting if you could buy a level 50, then spec them how you chose, just to see how certain things worked or if dumping all your skills into bow and sword and only a little in stealth and woodland ability makes a good RVR ranger. You could still do the quests (including your epic)and still work toward getting good kit, and with DAOC level 50 doesnt mean youre safe, there are lots of high level mobs roaming around that will eat you happily (the dragon, most of darkness falls, most of sheeroe hills). But it would be interesting as an -experiment- at least.

Possibly it might be interesting to allow your high levels to spawn a mid level character of another class to `play` with (keep them interested in the game, more money). Or to give `trials` of the game the allowance to have a midlevel character to run around with (that gets deleted when they register, or they can pay more to keep it on sign up), so they get a better feel for the game.

Ds

Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
#17 by LPMiller
2002-09-22 21:33:05
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
DAoC is doing the same thing though. By the release of Shattered Realms, anyone with a 50th level character will be able to start a new character at level 20, except for the new classes...at least on the American servers.

But then, we don't have no insta cast mez on the American servers either, Middy or otherwise. If fact, middy mez and roots tend to be the weakest of the bunch, as does our overall caster strength.  But I know the European and American servers differ in a lot of ways.  Do you guys have a total PVP server?

I believe I can fly......urk.
#18 by Creole Ned
2002-09-22 21:39:13
I am not a gaming snob (I hope) but to this day, I still don't understand the appeal of MMOGs. I see people talking about how they work, what you do, the quests, the groupings, the whole thing and I still can't fathom the attraction. Is the interaction with other players really that compelling?

Pre-levelled characters seems to fly against the whole point of these games, too, so it makes you wonder what EA is saying about what the attraction of UO is. Isn't levelling the hook that allegedly keeps you playing? Wouldn't a pre-levelled player hit the end game all that much sooner and get bored? Has EA just come up with a formula to extract the same amount of money from a player but through different means?

a. Buy game, pay $10 per month for six months, level to maximum, get bored, leave.
b. Buy game, pay $30 for pre-levelled character, pay $10 per month for three months, level to maximum, get bored, leave.

?

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#19 by Stralutia
2002-09-22 21:54:36
stralutia@hotmail.com None
I don't know about any of you guys (and girls), but when I first played Everquest when it came out years back, I *enjoyed* the first few levels more than any others.  This was the period in time for me before it appeared to be a treadmill and did involve exploration.  I have a friend who still plays Everquest to this day, and I hear a fair bit about the goings-on in-game from him.  It is his general assessment that the first half of the game occurs at levels 1-50, and the second half is 50-60.  Between 50-60, high level guilds are capable of taking on high level zones, and doing 'raids' of said zones with surgical precision and planning.  This does not occur in the low level zones for the most part, where group play generally boils down to 'camp the spawn, kill it, sit, wait, kill said spawn when it respawns, repeat.'  (Or more recently, grab five Wizards and another class to pull with, pull 20-30 spawns or so, have the Wizards all blast with area of effect spells, sit, med, and repeat).  

In addition to this, the levelled players offered by in UO (to my understanding) are not of a high level, but simply past the 'click mindlessly for a week to level skills' stage.  This doesn't mean they are l33t by any streach of the word.  Although we all decry Everquest for being a level treadmill, somewhere along the way the people on that treadmill learn to group with appalling efficiency.  They learn the role of their class, and where it fits into various groups.  When I played EQ, I made it to the mid-levels (read: 30ish) on a few characters, and I had the unfortunate chance of grouping with people who had bought their characters on ebay.  Having not had the thirty levels of experience playing their character and interacting in a group, they were unable to effectively use their skills to aid the group, and eventually became a liability.  

Buying a maxed character is a bad thing.  It is bad for the game, in that having a bunch of level 60 newbies running around who don't know how to manage their aggro or how to act in a group is not enjoyable for them (they will always die) and not enjoyable for other players (they will bring death to their group).  It also lowers the sense of accomplishment achieved by the others who played their character to this point, only to learn that somebody spent X amount of dollars to have an 'equal' character standing right beside them.  

Buying a mid-level character may not be such a bad thing, depending on the demographic of the server in question.  If it is an older server, there will be more high level characters, so people being able to buy mid-level characters won't be a bad thing.  If it is a newer server, the ability to buy a character leaps and bounds above the bunch of newbies on the server is not a good thing for the server and community on the server in general.
#20 by Whisp
2002-09-22 21:58:58
Just a quick update: m0nty is currently posting drunk in IRC.

[15:43] <m0nty> WAHT UP BITCHAAZZZZ
[15:43] <m0nty> YOYOYOYOY
[15:44] <m0nty> UHUUHUHHU
[15:45] <BobJustBob> hrm.
[15:45] <m0nty> bob
[15:45] <BobJustBob> teamspeak has driven m0nty to drink and insanity
[15:45] <m0nty> m00000000000000000000
[15:45] <m0nty> BOB< GET ON TEAMPSEAK
[15:46] <m0nty> FU UNLESS U GE ON TEMAPSKEQA
[15:46] <m0nty> oh man I have to go to the otii.e,l
...
[15:55] <m0nty> I WSIH I HAD BERR
[15:55] <BobJustBob> so is the butter script broken, or what?
[15:55] <m0nty> WHAT THE FIUC
[15:55] <m0nty> I":M IN THE TWILIGHT ZOEM
[15:56] <m0nty> FU WIHPS AND DESIOTSA
[15:56] <Ashiran> ?
[15:56] <m0nty> ZTSDSTOP LAUGHIN U FIXX0rs
[15:56] <PogoTribal> i dunno how to throw the ball in bombing run
[15:56] <m0nty> FU ALL < EAT BUG BAGS IF DUXXX
[15:56] <BobJustBob> YUO CLIK TEH BUTON!

Alles in Butter, liebe Mutter!
#21 by Whisp
2002-09-22 21:58:59
Just a quick update: m0nty is currently posting drunk in IRC.

[15:43] <m0nty> WAHT UP BITCHAAZZZZ
[15:43] <m0nty> YOYOYOYOY
[15:44] <m0nty> UHUUHUHHU
[15:45] <BobJustBob> hrm.
[15:45] <m0nty> bob
[15:45] <BobJustBob> teamspeak has driven m0nty to drink and insanity
[15:45] <m0nty> m00000000000000000000
[15:45] <m0nty> BOB< GET ON TEAMPSEAK
[15:46] <m0nty> FU UNLESS U GE ON TEMAPSKEQA
[15:46] <m0nty> oh man I have to go to the otii.e,l
...
[15:55] <m0nty> I WSIH I HAD BERR
[15:55] <BobJustBob> so is the butter script broken, or what?
[15:55] <m0nty> WHAT THE FIUC
[15:55] <m0nty> I":M IN THE TWILIGHT ZOEM
[15:56] <m0nty> FU WIHPS AND DESIOTSA
[15:56] <Ashiran> ?
[15:56] <m0nty> ZTSDSTOP LAUGHIN U FIXX0rs
[15:56] <PogoTribal> i dunno how to throw the ball in bombing run
[15:56] <m0nty> FU ALL < EAT BUG BAGS IF DUXXX
[15:56] <BobJustBob> YUO CLIK TEH BUTON!

Alles in Butter, liebe Mutter!
#22 by Whisp
2002-09-22 21:59:46
ACK!  Double posted again.  What the heck?  Oh well, funny enough to be worth repeating!

Alles in Butter, liebe Mutter!
#23 by Creole Ned
2002-09-22 22:01:55
Are there neuters in IRC?

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#24 by Stralutia
2002-09-22 22:03:40
stralutia@hotmail.com None
Has EA just come up with a formula to extract the same amount of money from a player but through different means?



The situation outlined in your option B would do nothing but help the bottom line of any company that adopted it.  If the 'buy a pre-levelled character' option became widely used and accepted among the playerbase, the company in question would receive the same amount of revenue from the "option B players", but wouldn't be forced to foot the bill for server maitenence, bandwidth, and upkeep for the players that left after three months.  

In addition to that, having a dollar today is generally better for than having a dollar three months from now,  so I'd think that most companies would rather have 30 dollars to start with and then ten for three months instead of ten dollars over six months.  

That is assuming that people did actually leave after three months.  If they didn't and played for six months (if for the sake of arguement that was the median time played by everyone who bought the game) then the company would still win, since they made 30 dollars in exchange for doing essentially nothing.
#25 by m0nty
2002-09-22 22:04:48
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
FUCK YOU ALL YOU ASRE ALL MOTHIERSUFCUJER!!1
#26 by Stralutia
2002-09-22 22:07:50
stralutia@hotmail.com None
FUCK YOU ALL YOU ASRE ALL MOTHIERSUFCUJER!!1


Engrish motherfucker, do you speak it!??!?! /Jules
#27 by Stralutia
2002-09-22 22:14:53
stralutia@hotmail.com None
I'd hate to make this the 'quote drunk m0nty' thread, but I can't resist:

<m0nty> I HAVE RESENT MENT TOAWRE ALL OF U FGIXXOSRS
<stralutia> i see
<m0nty> I DONT EVEN KNOW YOU STRSLIYTI
<metsu\ac2> moo...
<m0nty> BUT I LOVBEUTUY YUOP!!
<stralutia> awww
<stralutia> thanks
<stralutia> i love you too
<stralutia> and your well thought out topics
* m0nty jhugs STSAALIRA
<m0nty> wanna cvyber!
<Errol> JHugs!
* stralutia jhugs m0ateratasegasgty
<stralutia> Jhugs for all!
<m0nty> FU!@ ALL!
* Errol JHugs m0nty.
* stralutia Jhugs Errol
#28 by Warren Marshall
2002-09-22 22:16:40
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Stralutia is to m0nty, as m0nty is to Chella.

"It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
#29 by m0nty
2002-09-22 22:17:32
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
DO NOT SDULLY THE SACRED NAMNE OF CHELLA< MOTHERFUCKA
#30 by m0nty
2002-09-22 22:18:06
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
WARREN< IS ALWAYS LOVED YOU< BUT SONDNODONT T EST MY PATIENCE
#31 by Stralutia
2002-09-22 22:18:31
stralutia@hotmail.com None
Sorry Warren, that went over my head.  But I'm sure it was a zinger regardless.
#32 by Max
2002-09-22 22:34:55
http://massivebraincase.org/
ZNIG!111!!!!!

We have enough youth. How about a Fountain of Smart?
#33 by Max
2002-09-22 22:43:13
http://massivebraincase.org/
He's degenerating, too:

<m0nty> dwddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

We have enough youth. How about a Fountain of Smart?
#34 by Neale
2002-09-22 22:44:30
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
IVE GOT YUOR ZNIG RIGHT HEAR!!!111
<GRABS WAREN>

signatures are, as I've stated, for perverts
#35 by Warren Marshall
2002-09-22 22:47:25
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Now people are grabbing me while zinging.  I've hit bottom ...

"It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
#36 by Neale
2002-09-22 23:06:25
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
Warren grabbing is the hip new pastime that's sweeping the nation! All the kids want to grab Warren!

signatures are, as I've stated, for perverts
#37 by Your Friend
2002-09-22 23:31:29
I agree ned.

MMORPGs just don't hold any interest for me.  

I used to play MUDs back in the day, which is pretty much the basis for for these games (in fact, there were so many rumors that Everquest had used the Diku MUD source code and stuck a graphics layer on it that Verant issued a sworn statement to dispel these rumors.  

After a couple months of playing, though, I realized that I was just doing the same thing over and over.  Levelling up would allow me to fight "bigger, badder" monsters, but the way in which I fought them was exactly the same.  Whether I was holding a Long Sword or Long Sword +1, and whether the enemy was a level 1 rabbit or level 20 bugbear or whatever made pretty much no difference.  It was all just same shit, new text, or in the case of modern games, same shit, new graphics.

I do still play single player RPGs or multiplayer co-op RPGs where there is actually a plot, but the whole "level up for levelling up's sake" thing seems pretty much a waste of time to me.  A cheap ploy to make money by eating up people's time... exploiting the varying degree of obsessive/compulsive behavior that exists in most people.
#38 by Matt Perkins
2002-09-22 23:55:38
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I agree with Stralutia on the early levels were the best in EQ.  They were the best in DAOC and UO (levels being a relative term) too.  

UO was great until I finally maxed out some stats/skills...  became triple GM (I think, maybe quadruple) and found that I still wasn't going to be able to fight a lot of the monsters because melee wasn't half as strong as being a wizard.  I then became a wizard, fought my way back up and found out I could kill just about anything, players included, without a lot of effort.  Got old.  What broke UO for me, was the balance issues...they ALWAYS existed, tilted one way or another.  The good thing about UO was that the treadmill wasn't so readily apparent.

I loved EQ up until about level 25 when the only thing I could do was go to 1 of 10 places, sit there with some other fools and make a bit of experience and hope for something to sell.

I played DAOC for a couple of months...  thought it was a lot of fun for awhile...but as soon as I started getting in higher levels, it got annoying.  I couldn't kill much without grouping, I didn't care to group with most of the 'tards that played the game.  *shrugs*  It was like EQ with vikings (which isn't all bad), but even that gets old after a while.


I want more things to do in MMORPGs, I don't want to be forced to group to succeed (though grouping is good if you can find interesting people), I want to not just hunt and then sell, I want to be able to endlessly customize my character, I don't want to have the same skillset/looks as anyone else, and I want new content added on a regular basis (weekly, maybe settling for monthly), not just with expanion packs.

Oh yeah, and I don't want the creators to tell me this feature didn't make it in the release so those things aren't balanced...EVERY released MMORPG has had to say that.

I may be needy, but I think a MMORPG should include and expand upon the things I listed as my wants.  An ever evolving world, with characters able to do the same, will completely dominate the current static games.

I hang drywall.  Really, I do.
#39 by Your Friend
2002-09-23 00:00:22

An ever evolving world, with characters able to do the same, will completely dominate the current static games.


And bankrupt the company who produces it in the process.  At least for the next five years or so.
#40 by Matt Perkins
2002-09-23 00:02:37
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Money, bleh!  What kind of gaming company worries about money!


I can't say I agree with you, but your welcome to have your, albeit wrong, opinion.

I hang drywall.  Really, I do.
#41 by crash
2002-09-23 00:21:53
from the topic:

The focus in MMORPGs should be materialism and wealth, and not statistics and combat damage.  Removing the levelling systems altogether would make for a much more enjoyable experience across the spectrum.

for a single player game that you didn't want a subscription fee for, i'd agree.

alas, that's not how it works.

nice topic. i disagree. we'll leave it at that.

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE
#42 by crash
2002-09-23 00:35:13
and what Stralutia said. ain't nothing less fun in a current MMOG than to run into a purchased character that doesn't know how it's supposed to work, because he has no experience with it.

analogy: well, i can drive my toyota tercel just fine, so i should be able to just strap into a NASCAR stocker and run with the big boys if i buy a car and a team. they're both cars, after all. how hard could it be? and shit, in a NASCAR runner, i only have to turn LEFT! CAKE!

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE
#43 by Darkseid-D
2002-09-23 00:42:05
rogerboal@hotmail.com
the pvp server is under test, patch version is 1.52 at the moment, we havent got to the respec patch yet

as for insta mez, the run up and hit you with an area effect mez whilst running, not to mention the bugged items like the Bow that could shoot for 100,000 units, meaning you could run up, get a target and back off past viewpoint and kill people with impunity, through walls also if you had the target before you clipped past them being visible.

I`ve several characters on the go at once, a level 37 druid (healing respec), 30 enchanter (mana spec), champion (shield/blunt) and level 11 nightshade.  The druids been played longest and has about 20k realm points but never seems to be able to get into parties, yet people scream for rez` often enough. Im currently focused on the enchanter and having an awful lot more fun playing as him, mainly because hes not gimped like the druid is (he can hit harder with his staff than a druid with 3x the str and a bloody great big sword can), meaning I can make xps solo whereas the druid cant (unless I want to spend hours of downtime).

Ds

Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
#44 by Stralutia
2002-09-23 00:44:51
stralutia@hotmail.com None
The focus in MMORPGs should be materialism and wealth, and not statistics and combat damage.


Unfortunately, materialism and wealth often does not come to a player in large quantities unless they know their statistics and combat damage.  I will refer to Everquest again, because it is the MMORPG that I have the most experience with.  A big thing for high-end players in EQ is something called DPS (Damage Per Second).  The reason why this is a big thing is because some monsters in the game regenerate so quickly that if the group(s) attacking it do not output a certain DPS, they will never kill it.  Why do they want to kill monsters with such high regeneration rates?  Fame, wealth, phat l3wtz.  

In other words, materialism.  

Materialism is the focus in MMORPGs, in addition to fame and reputation.  However there comes a point where to attain fame and wealth, a player has to spend a good deal of time focusing on statistics and combat damage.
#45 by Charles
2002-09-23 00:56:21
www.bluh.org
I must have missed the day when role playing ended up meaning 'play with numbers'.

We the undersigned, demand you all grow the fuck up and stop making petitions about little fanboy games that piss you off when they aren't even out yet. Fans don't write the books, they don't script the plots, they don't edit the movies, and they sure as fuck don't make the games. If you think something sucks, don't buy it, but what ever you do, Shut The Fuck Up before someone with a functional IQ and a really big fucking car rams you into next week, you stupid sad ass nerd. Get a fucking girlfriend.

-LPMiller
#46 by Cliff
2002-09-23 01:09:46
cps46@rcn.com
Nova, I think that was about two days after the D&D rulebooks, when the players started buying their own copies and became the forerunners of today's message board MMORPG whiners.

That said, it's going to take some new approaches to get really compelling multiplayer gameplay, IMO.  At least without huge content teams pumping out new shit on a constant basis, which isn't economically feasible.  "Emergent" may be overused but it's under-realized, so far.

Anybody played with Project Entropia or know if that whole economy thing is working out?

Yeah?  Well...you know, that's just like uh...your opinion, man.
#47 by Cliff
2002-09-23 01:11:23
cps46@rcn.com
Ehm, new approaches other than sucking players into levelling shit that are economically feasible.

Yeah?  Well...you know, that's just like uh...your opinion, man.
#48 by Dinglehoffen
2002-09-23 01:55:01
Fanny Fungus
"I've beta'd an awful lot of MMOGs, but E&B has to be one of the more tiresome, newbie-punishing, fedex missions are go, level treadmill-focused of the bunch. While visually sparkly, it has about as much depth and viable longevity as a thimble-sized puddle of piss in the Sahara desert. Sure, there's no other MMOGs out there that can claim any originality or any appeal other than stimulating the push-level-get-pellet side of the human psyche, but E&B? Blargh."

I take it you don't like it.

Well, the only MMOG I ever played was Asheron's Call, and I played it for three months and had a riot. Leveling up anything is insane, and it wasn't even a goal. I just wanted to log on, shoot some baddies, have some fun, explore, and talk a bit. Unlike you, I'm not looking at every particular nuance that engenders boredom after six years of gameplay. The idea of flying around planets and doing stuff is enough to have some fun. I'll buy it, play for three months, cancel, and move on. I don't give a shit about the trifles you've grown so accustomed to noticing that you spoil the experience for yourself. You angry little boy, you. : )

"Woo-hoo! Do NOT go in there!"
#49 by Bailey
2002-09-23 02:14:16
I'll never cease to be impressed how you can say so much without issuing a single syllable of value.

Ossified for your pleasure.
#50 by LPMiller
2002-09-23 02:24:35
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Dark, they fixed that bow thing on our servers awhile ago, though there are still 'holes' that can be shot and casted through. Haven't seen or heard about running while mezzing either, but I know your servers have bugs we don't, and vice versa.

Try PVP when it comes out. It's not for serious play, but as an occasional thing it's a blast.

I believe I can fly......urk.
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