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Voltron - The Game
May 29th 2003, 22:54 CEST by m0nty

While playing soccer games in FIFA, I have always been frustrated at the lack of depth in the game for managing your team as a going concern. In my perfect world, you could load up a soccer management sim like Championship Manager 4 - a type of game which I have never purchased despite my love of soccer, because there wasn't enough action - and when it comes time to play your game with the specially assembled team, you could move across to a FIFA title (or some other soccer sim) to play out the game. After winning or losing, and your players getting injured or suspended, you could go back to CM4 with all the ramifications of the in-game events causing effects in the management sim. This merging of games into a seamless environment has always been a dream of mine. Civilization offers many opportunities in this vein: police sims for cities in revolt, spy sims for espionage missions, or RTS games for military conflicts.

Anachronox is an example of a game with many sub-games, and this is another area in which I have fantasised about a greater array of third-party choices. When it comes time for Sly Boots to play one of these minigames, you could instead be given a choice of a number of other fully-developed puzzle games from other developers, like Bubble Bomb where the bubbles have pictures of Anachronox characters on them.

Of course, this idea has been implemented to a limited extent by Nintendo with their GameCube, GameBoy and GBA allowing extra features and interaction between certain games from the same developer. What I am wondering is, could this possibly work in any sort of context in the PC world? Would it be prohibitively difficult for Valve and Firaxis to work on a crossover "plug-in" for Half-Life 2 and Civilization 3? Could we conceivably see a world where Master of Orion 3 players could bypass their shitty combat system in favour of a Descent mod? Will it be possible to glue PC boxes together to form some kind of stunted equine figure?
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#1 by lwf
2003-05-29 22:54:29
I just fucking voted no on you!!

Well late last winter Down below the equator
They had a summer that would make you blister
Oh my mind is all made up So I'll have to sleep in it
#2 by Fugazi(werking)
2003-05-29 22:55:05
You wrote too many words Monty.

!
#3 by Russ
2003-05-29 22:55:14
Well, that's how it works. Duh. I voted no also.

There's two kinds of people in the world. People with guns and people who dig.
#4 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-05-29 22:59:23
erictcheng@hotmail.com
I voted no.

m0nty wouldn't happen to be a blonde would he...?

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#5 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-29 23:00:06
www.verbalchilli.com
I voted 'yes' because Zimbardo accidentally voted 'no' when he intended to vote 'yes', so I thought I'd balance the score.

#6 by Your Friend
2003-05-29 23:02:20
To answer your entire post in one word, no.  

It won't ever happen.  The hurdles are too great, both in terms of creating technical standards that would be needed and just in terms of business (the companies involved would never cooperate in this manner, unless they were the same company to begin with).

Even if it did come to pass, which it never will, just think how shoddily it would work most of the time.  You're lucky if your PC game interoperates with itself these days, let alone other games.

Keep dreaming.

I was trendy before it was trendy.
#7 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-29 23:03:11
www.verbalchilli.com
OT: Maybe there will be modular, cross-genre and interconnecting games. I think the problem with this is simply dev time; unless a property is fed out to a number of developers who all cooperate and manage to have near perfect synchronisation in finalising their project I don't see it being a reality.

#8 by CheesyPoof
2003-05-29 23:04:33
It's OLE for games.  I don't know if OLE for applications other than MS ever worked, but I always thought of that to be flaky.  Anyway, it sounds really neat, but I can't see it happening from the same company, much less cooperation across companies.
#9 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-29 23:04:39
www.verbalchilli.com
You're lucky if your PC game interoperates with itself these days, let alone other games.

Oh, they don't make 'em like they used to! Back when I were a lad we knew what real gamin' were!

#10 by hangedmanAG
2003-05-29 23:05:57
www.livejournal.com/users/hangedman_ag/
I'm just amazed that this is how far Monty's fantasy life extends.  This could never work and I am doubting it should.

"I'm not so dumb that I'm making conclusions built on top of baseless speculation." - CultureShock
#11 by UncleJeet
2003-05-29 23:06:44
My only question is, what role would Mario play if I could plug him into GTA3 - and would it involve him getting into a car with me?

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#12 by Bailey
2003-05-29 23:06:53
Clearly, m0nty is the new idea man.

Rowr.
#13 by jjz
2003-05-29 23:08:05
I was always more of a fan of the Voltron cartoon with the 15 ships as opposed to the Voltron with the 5 lions.  They had more of a mission thing going where they're flying around in space doing things, as opposed to the lion one where they hung out on a planet and waited for the bad guy to attack.
#14 by Warren Marshall
2003-05-29 23:08:31
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Well, it COULD work if it's as simple as "here's a rendering surface, GameX, you can run in this virtual memory space over here and output onto it".  Then the host game displays that surface somewhere as a texture.

It's not a pretty idea, and it isn't like it's not loaded with countless problems both tech and design related ... but it's not impossible.

Bubble Bombing Fun!
#15 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-29 23:08:39
www.verbalchilli.com
Jeet -

You'd still be fighting Gumbas.

#16 by UncleJeet
2003-05-29 23:09:19
But could it make Bubble Bomb fun, that is the question.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#17 by UncleJeet
2003-05-29 23:09:38
Goombas, you illiterate bastard!

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#18 by jafd
2003-05-29 23:13:52
I do not share this dream. Unless m0nty's dream is actually all about driving everyone insane before killing them with boredom.

"You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
#19 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-29 23:13:56
www.verbalchilli.com
Whatever, Princess.

#20 by Marsh Davies
2003-05-29 23:14:16
www.verbalchilli.com
Please move my post further up.

#21 by Chunkstyle
2003-05-29 23:16:21
I like this idea.  I want to see a FPS battle royale, Quake guy vs. Gordon Freeman vs. Unreal guy vs. Doom Marine vs. other assorted FPS protaganists.  And I want that little cherub from Messiah possessing them all.  And, I want the My Little Pony ponies running around dodging BFG blasts.  While Bubble Bombs are landing all over the level.  Monty is on to something here.

Evil comes from the abuse of free will.
- C. S. Lewis
#22 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-05-29 23:16:31
This sucks, I read the title and I thought this thread was about some actual Voltron game that's comming out, what a disappointment. A Voltron game would rock!

It's a Steve Buscemi vibe.
#23 by UncleJeet
2003-05-29 23:17:04
The sad thing is, I voted Yes on this topic for the sole pupose of escaping the terror of the geek movie quote festival from the last thread.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#24 by jafd
2003-05-29 23:17:21
You guys could just eat some tabs of acid and save a million developers a million years of work.

"You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
#25 by jafd
2003-05-29 23:18:19
okay, I meant #24 in response to #21, but the way it panned out works as well.

"You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
#26 by UncleJeet
2003-05-29 23:19:22
Would it really be a million years of work if there was a million developers working, though?

Say, for instance, that Jane can paint three houses in five hours and Susan can paint five houses in seven hours.  How long would it take them to paint ten houses if they were painting together?

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#27 by jafd
2003-05-29 23:19:58
It depends. How many shells do I get?

"You do not truly know someone until you fight them."
#28 by Your Friend
2003-05-29 23:20:11

I like this idea.  I want to see a FPS battle royale, Quake guy vs. Gordon Freeman vs. Unreal guy vs. Doom Marine vs. other assorted FPS protaganists.


That's what ill conceived IP-infringing mods are for.  At least until they get "Foxed".

I was trendy before it was trendy.
#29 by UncleJeet
2003-05-29 23:20:32
And if anyone actually answers that with math, I'm going to send an army of midget ninjas to kill you in your sleep.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#30 by Phayyde
2003-05-29 23:24:28
13 and some change.

Beat to fit, paint to match.
#31 by Shadarr
2003-05-29 23:25:06
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Clearly, m0nty is the new idea man.


Nonsense, I said I wanted almost this exact same thing back in the "what is your dream game" thread.

Incidentally, m0nty, I would still love to see this come to pass, but I doubt it will ever be accomplished.  The only way I could see it happening would be for a big company like EA to release a bunch of separate games that can interoperate in some way.  But I suspect it would be nothing more than something you look at once, say "that's kinda clever" and never look at again.  For one thing, each of the components would be competing in a different genre.  If your management sim isn't the as good as other management sims, the fact that it links up with a second-tier soccer game won't sell any copies.  

I'd still like to try it, though.  Unfortunately I think the game most likely to do this is The Sims, and I have no intention of playing a Sims version of Team Manager.
#32 by UncleJeet
2003-05-29 23:25:15
My midgets will find you.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#33 by BobJustBob
2003-05-29 23:32:54
Later tonight when I'm more bored, I'll paste some IRC logs where I was discussing the topic with m0nty when he first submitted it.

But to anyone saying it could never work and there are too many technical problems, the FIFA/CM4 thing would be rather simple. You've got the team stats in CM4, you've got team stats in FIFA. Convert the stats from CM4 to FIFA, CM4 shuts down, FIFA starts up and plays the match, then exports the stats to CM4 and shuts down, CM4 starts up and there's the new data. You'd still be running one game at a time and with data valid that in that game, you'd just need to write the trivial stat import/export routines.

Voices tell me I'm the shit.
<Whisp> BJB is a troll. <Whisp> Troll I say!
#34 by BobJustBob
2003-05-29 23:35:29
Also, if this ever were to happen, it would help to alleviate some problems like Shadarr mentioned. Anytime you have some sort of multiple-genre game, you run the risk of the implementation of one genre sucking and pulling down the whole game as a result. m0nty's way, you have separate games that could each focus on their one specialty, and they interconnect to form a more complex whole. Kind of like Voltron!

Voices tell me I'm the shit.
<Whisp> BJB is a troll. <Whisp> Troll I say!
#35 by Phayyde
2003-05-29 23:40:28
Oh well then I'll suffer boldly.  3/5 + 5/7 * 10 = 13.14

Beat to fit, paint to match.
#36 by yotsuya
2003-05-29 23:46:13
It's all about the Lion Voltron, baby.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#37 by Shadarr
2003-05-29 23:46:30
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Bob,

Thing is, the way I see it going (with the Madden franchise, at least) is that the sports game is expanding to include all of the features of the team manager game.  So, rather than having Front Office Football 2004 and Madden 2004 as separate games that work together in some arcane, mystical way, Madden 2004 will contain more GM options, stealing Front Office Football's market share.

The thing is, very few people play multiple genres.  So while a few of us might want a way to link GTA and Railroad Tycoon, there isn't that big of a market that likes both games enough to play a combo game.
#38 by BobJustBob
2003-05-29 23:47:31
Phayyde: Ever hear of parentheses?

Voices tell me I'm the shit.
<Whisp> BJB is a troll. <Whisp> Troll I say!
#39 by jjohnsen
2003-05-29 23:47:57
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Didn't someone release a couple of games last year that worked together?  A flight sim and a naval command game maybe?  Or mabe I've just taken the acid jafd was suggesting.

"I'm gonna need a hacksaw" -Jack Bauer
#40 by BobJustBob
2003-05-29 23:48:25
But does anyone really believe that a Madden team manager game would be as good as CM4?

Voices tell me I'm the shit.
<Whisp> BJB is a troll. <Whisp> Troll I say!
#41 by BobJustBob
2003-05-29 23:50:00
Silent Hunter 2 and Destroyer Command linked together for multiplayer matches.

Voices tell me I'm the shit.
<Whisp> BJB is a troll. <Whisp> Troll I say!
#42 by Shadarr
2003-05-29 23:51:50
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Phayde,

No way is it 13 hours.  Jane can paint 6 houses in 10 hours, meanwhile Susan can paint five houses in 7 hours and take three hours off.  So, it's less than 10 hours.
#43 by BobJustBob
2003-05-29 23:52:51
Okay, I'm bored now.

04:50] <BobJustBob> Kind of like the Sim games, m0nty. I keep hoping for SimUniverse that lets you use a SimEarth variant to control a planet, then once life develops you can control that with a SimLife variant, once civilizations are developed you go to SimCity, with the Sims for each household and small business and maybe SimTower for the larger businesses. You'd need massive amounts of memory and processor power, of course, but maybe in the future...

[04:52] <BobJustBob> There were those games Breach and Rules of Engagement, where ROE was a space sim and Breach was a tactical combat game, and if you had both installed you could control ship boardings from ROE in Breach.

[04:53] <BobJustBob> And the Battlecruiser series was going to have that BCTE addon where you could run around the ship in first person, or beam aboard other ships in first person mode, so you go from a space sim to an FPS. But that was cancelled. Ho hum.

[04:58] <BobJustBob> In SimAnt, the backyard was divided into grid squares. You could move from grid to grid, but your progress in each grid was only measured by a rough percentage of your growth vs. the enemy colony's growth in that grid. So you could simulate your colony, but once you went to another grid everything was randmoized based on those little percentages. It was a disappointing way to have a global and local view. I fear that any connectivity issues like we are talking about would have to be something like this, thus losing much of the appeal.


Voices tell me I'm the shit.
<Whisp> BJB is a troll. <Whisp> Troll I say!
#44 by Your Friend
2003-05-29 23:53:39
I'm pretty sure Novalogic did release some somewhat interoperable military games, but I never played them and don't know what came of it.  As far as I know it was something of a server-side interoperability, eg, one guy runs a Helicopter sim, someone else a tank sim, and they are running around in the same world on whatever server.

In any case, doing it in-house isn't a huge deal, the big problem comes when you want to include others and thus have to agree on many technical standards (how will the rendering system work, do we all support a single high level 3d api, since OpenGL and D3D games won't mix, how does input mapping work, which game gets focus when, blah, blah).

I was trendy before it was trendy.
#45 by BobJustBob
2003-05-29 23:57:09
And btw, it's 7.6 hours.

Voices tell me I'm the shit.
<Whisp> BJB is a troll. <Whisp> Troll I say!
#46 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-05-29 23:57:36
Phayde,

No way is it 13 hours.  Jane can paint 6 houses in 10 hours, meanwhile Susan can paint five houses in 7 hours and take three hours off.  So, it's less than 10 hours.


You're right, Phayyde forgot to divide by 2 since there's two of them working on it. The real formula should be (3/5 + 5/7) / 2 * 10 = 6.57

It's a Steve Buscemi vibe.
#47 by Shadarr
2003-05-29 23:57:59
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Final answer, ~7.6 hours.  Do I get my free midgets now?
#48 by Shadarr
2003-05-29 23:58:33
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Damn you Bob!
#49 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-05-29 23:59:09
ok, where's 7.6 comming from?

It's a Steve Buscemi vibe.
#50 by Neale
2003-05-29 23:59:51
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
[04:53] <BobJustBob> And the Battlecruiser series was going to have that BCTE addon where you could run around the ship in first person, or beam aboard other ships in first person mode, so you go from a space sim to an FPS. But that was cancelled. Ho hum.


AHAHAHAHAHAHA.

You can't derail this train of idiocy, Shadarr. Not even with a big fat cow of logic on the tracks. - Bailey
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