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Microsoft Palladium - We seriously challenge your intelligence!
August 9th 2002, 15:28 BST by The_Joker Remember when Microsoft announced Hailstorm - "All your personal information are belong to us"? Nobody was interested because it was too risky, and people did not trust Microsoft with their personal information, let alone the fact that Microsoft would actually have full control over it. Microsoft basically had to forget about implementing Hailstorm for a while. Then came .NET - "You know, we have to admit we don't have the slightest clue as to what .NET really is or should be. In fact, we have to re-think this one. I give my company a C for its .NET understanding and implementation. - Bill Gates and co.". If you can remember these two Microsoft initiatives, combine them together, add a security smokescreen to it, and you have an important part of Palladium. When Microsoft realized they could not convince people about the benefits of Hailstorm, they went back to the drawing board. And they came with a very smart solution. I imagine one Microsoft exec probably said "Hey, it's not the end-users who have to decide here, it's the major players in the digital world, like hardware manufacturers, music companies, Hollywood etc. If we manage to convince them, so that they accept the technology and implement it, the end-users will have no choice." So instead of targeting end-users, they reworked the Hailstorm plan, and are now targeting businesses. And in order to do that, they have to offer these businesses something that they can't refuse, and badly need right now: Introducing Digital Rights Management, an important part of Palladium. This technology will finally give the Music Industry and Hollywood what they want, full control over their properties, not to mention giving Microsoft what they want, full control over their software. To be as secure as possible, Microsoft wants to implement this at the hardware level. Think DRM-enabled CPUs, Soundcards, CD-ROMS, you name it. In the future you will not be able to play your MP3's on the next version of Windows, currently codenamed Longhorn, the first version of Windows scheduled to ship with Palladium. Why not? Because the OS and/or the hardware you're running will detect that you have no rights to play those MP3s, and that you need to purchase the rights first. And when you do, Microsoft and its partners will be able to track exactly how long you may listen to a specific song, or use a specific application, until you have to purchase rights again. That's right, what works for the Music Industry will also work for Microsoft. Surprised? It's what they have been working towards the last 2 years. Subscription-based software. With Palladium it'll be easy to implement this. For example when you'll want to use Office, you'll need to buy a subscription for the Office applications you want to use, and Microsoft will be able to shut down the service when the subscription expires. Remember Product Activation? Product Activation was essentially just a preview and a way for Microsoft to already let end-users realize it would begin to enforce its licensing policies. Palladium will be many times worse, it will enable Microsoft to unleash astronomical amounts of massive shitfuckery on end-users. And all this tracking of your active subscriptions, your purchased rights etc. would have to be done by Microsoft and its Partners, you didn't think it would be managed locally on your computer did you - no way, that would enable hackers to easily crack it! Does this begin to ring a couple of bells? Perhaps detonate a few bombs as well? If you ask me, it sounds a lot like project Hailstorm - "All your personal information are belong to us." Microsoft and its partners will have to set up systems to manage al this data for all the millions of users out there. There will be _no_ avoiding it, you will have to set up a Passport account with your information so that Microsoft and its partners can track your account information online. And again, Microsoft will have full control. I don't think they will settle for less. Why not? Enter the .NET initiative, whatever that is, since not even its creators seem to know. A secure operating system will have to be able to control what is safe to run, and what not. This can only be done if the OS itself 'knows' what the code is trying to do or access. This is possible in .NET due to managed code - code that runs based on permissions and security settings. If the OS detects that code in a program is trying to access resources that it does not have permissions for, it basically blocks the code from execution. That alone is not enough. To be really secure, Microsoft will probably require software to be digitally signed. Much like with drivers on Windows 2000 and XP, but you may not have the option to run unsigned software. Signed software will make it very difficult to impossible to crack software because the OS will be able to check (at the hardware level for maximum security) if the executable matches the criteria in the encrypted signature, which could be (a combination of) the size of the executable, the CRC checksum, etc. This could also mean extra pains for developers, or having to jump through extra hoops to get their software working on the computers of end-users. And if you haven’t realized this yet, all of this will require the Internet. You will need an Internet connection to be able to do most of the things you can do today without an Internet connection. How else will the OS check your subscriptions and purchased digital rights managed somewhere else in the world on Microsoft systems? How else will the OS download encrypted digital signatures for software you’re trying to run on your PC? This is where web services and XML will play an important role also. And for those who don’t know, that’s also part of .NET. Although there are benefits to all of this, end-users will have to give up a lot of their freedom, and will be forced to give a lot of control to Microsoft and its partners. This will change the world of personal computing as we know it, without a doubt. How the market will react to the implementation of Palladium remains to be seen. Will consumers instead look for hardware that's not Palladium enabled? Will those hardware companies be making the big bucks, effectively forcing other hardware companies making Palladium hardware to stop supporting Palladium? Or will there be a law or regulations that will require hardware manufacturers to make Palladium enabled hardware, or else face an industry-wide boycott? I'm interested in hearing what the rest of Planetcrap thinks of this, but me and my wang don't like it one bit. I like my freedom. And so does my wang. |
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Topic: Microsoft Palladium - We seriously challenge your intelligence!
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wail wail wail, gnash gnash gnash. MS touted their activation as the piracy breaker. It wasn't. People are now afraid that this will be the privacy/p2p breaker. It isn't. There is always a way to circumvent, especially in MS' code. I said ve're going to cut off your CHONSON!
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You're entering a world of pain ... "It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
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Wow, never realized I grabbed a line of white when I copied that square. Now it looks embossed. I'm the accidental artist! I said ve're going to cut off your CHONSON!
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As for the personal information and privacy thing, what Joker was trying to illustrate i think is that Microsoft wanted a central system where the personal information of ALL computer users online would be stored, so that it would be easy for their .NET technology, for webservices and online applications to access this information. But people didn't like the fact that all this information would be managed by Microsoft, and while Microsoft has full control over it. That was project Hailstorm, and MS had to stop its implementation. Now, they are trying to do the same thing, but with a different approach. Now they are tackling the problem from a secure and trusted computing angle, and are offering stuff like DRM to businesses, who will then be a lot more interested. But when all this digital rights management and online tracking is going to take place, where will everyone's information be stored? Not on their PC's, but on the Internet. It's the same Hailstorm idea. Every Palladium chip wil ship with a unique ID, that will enable people to identify your PC. It's a requirement for the whole trusted computing part. So there goes your privacy. Plus, I don't think hardware companies who won't make Palladium hardware will stand a chance. Look at Intel, Intel had to agree even though they were reluctant to it, because they were afraid of losing marketshare otherwise to AMD. Knowing Microsoft, they will try to boycott every company who doesn't support Palladium in one way or the other. All Microsoft software and technologies will be rolling out supporting, or requiring Palladium the moment the next version of Windows with Palladium ships in 2005. You will get a situation where developers will be forced to support Palladium to be able to take advantage of certain features in Windows. On the other hand, even if users don't upgrade their hairdware to Palladium hardware, Microsoft and other developers will be rolling out software requiring Palladium hardware. If they develop subcription-based Office 2005 that uses Palladium for the subscription management stuff, users will be forced to buy new hardware to use the new software. Imagine companies like Discreet, they will happily integrate Palladium into their 3DSMax software, it will be so fucking easy to manage licenses, and it will be impossible to warez or crack it. Users, companies who use 3DSMax will be forced to upgrade their hardware so they can continue to use 3DSMax. It's like today, with for example games. Oh you want to run Doom3? Well you need a GeForce 4 card and a minimum of 256MB of RAM. You have a TNT 2 and 64MB RAM on your system. You want to play Doom 3. What will you do? I've also seen on websites where Microsoft executives say you can turn on and off the Palladium component. That has got to be the biggest piece of bullshit I read in the last 3 months. If the software you run requires it to function, how in the fuck will you turn it off??? So can I like, turn it off, listen to that CD i bought last week of which my rights have expired, and then turn it back on later? I don't think so. |
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#51 I'm afraid Palladium won't be able to be cracked. And by that I mean, like in the sense how software gets cracked today. Sure, in the computer world everything can be cracked, if you have the time, the tools and the money, you can crack anything. But Palladium will make it impossible to crack/warez sofware like it's happening today. It virtually will be impossible to do so. Joker illustrated that in his piece. |
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Wow, no more piracy! Woot!! You'll understand if I hold off on buying the champagne just yet ... "It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
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Someone else also brought up an interesting point about developers wanting to digitally sign their software. Will Microsoft and Verisign charge developers for that? Would developers have to go through that process for every damn executable they release, just so that the user will not get a "This program is not digitally signed by Microsoft and could damage your computer." message (effectively causing Joe Compaq to delete it from his PC, and perhaps also format his C drive just to be save), or not be able to run it at all? |
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Yes. I said ve're going to cut off your CHONSON!
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I liked when I could just go out and buy things...and use them however I liked. Now I have to buy a "license" to use something...and my uses are restricted. The internet is moving away from being an information tool to a tool that license holders can use to make sure that I am complying with their terms. A panoptic society is on its way. Licensing and software patents are two massive mistakes, IMNSHO. "Good health" is merely the slowest rate at which one can die.
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#56 In case you haven't noticed, it's not about stopping piracy and warez, for Microsoft it's about ultimate control, this will give them complete world domination. They even came up with their own security concept, Palladium, while another group backed by 130+ companies did something similar before them. Typical Microsoft attitude, to mimic the functionality of the others, then push that so they can have complete control over it. Have you guys heard about their new Licensing 6.0? All their new licenses for enterprise software have a subscription-based model to it. Companies can't buy Windows .NET Server, and pay for it once. No, Microsoft now wants them to pay a monthly fee for as long as they use it. It's also about users losing all control over their desktop. Palladium will enable Microsoft to do what they want to your software, files etc. If they detect you have a file on your PC that you probably shouldn't have, they can delete it. It's that bad. |
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I bet you people don't believe that men walked on the moon. You probably also think that the WTC tragedy was a US plot. "'Halo 2' is a lot like 'Halo', only it's 'Halo' on fire, going 130 miles per hour through a hospital zone, being chased by helicopters and ninjas," explained Jason Jones, the head of Bungie Studios, "and the ninjas are all on fire, too."
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By the way, I have yet to see information from a reliable source claiming that palladium will require you to store your stuff on a central server. Anyone care to pony up a link from a reliable news site? "'Halo 2' is a lot like 'Halo', only it's 'Halo' on fire, going 130 miles per hour through a hospital zone, being chased by helicopters and ninjas," explained Jason Jones, the head of Bungie Studios, "and the ninjas are all on fire, too."
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Hey Warren, Someone should do us a favor and spackle your butt-crack shut because, God forbid, you will never pull your head out of your ass. The DCMA, UCITA, CBDTPA, Berman P2P Bill and the resultant DRM technologies like Palladium will have little if no impact on commercial piracy they will just revoke all your personal and consumer rights. |
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Seeing as Joker couldn't be bothered actually listing links for his article; Microsoft Palladium: A Business Overview Q&A: Microsoft Seeks Industry-Wide Collaboration for Palladium Initiative i like monkeys. are you a monkey?
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Caryn Everyone so far has called it another warez topic or otherwise made fun of it, but I think Joker (for once) and Desiato raise a good point. I know you're part of that whole "compassionate female" slice of the demographic, but quite likely, for most of us, it's a little hard to imagine the leopard lost his spots. For all of you Donkeying away into the wee hours of the morning, what are you going to do when the next MS OS doesn't let you? Not upgrade. Wait for the public outcry to force MS to go back to the old, piratey way. Then upgrade. Or just download the cracked version of Palladium off eDonkey a month before it goes retail. Whichever. I don't like being an early adopter. THIS is my new guiding directive from here on out. Only I think I like "What Would Baileytron Do?" Regardless of the situation, the answer is always "Kill all humans." Well, where do you think all your problems come from? Just like the cool kids, I have chosen to incorporate a cute kitty as my icon. Wuv.
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Uh oh, the anonymous poster in the "Worf" t-shirt disagrees with something Warren did! Sparks will fly! Just like the cool kids, I have chosen to incorporate a cute kitty as my icon. Wuv.
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Oh look, the microsoft link killed the topic: A "Palladium"-enhanced computer must continue to run any existing applications and device drivers. "Palladium" is not a separate operating system. It is based on architectural enhancements to the Windows kernel and to computer hardware, including the CPU, peripherals and chipsets, to create a new trusted execution subsystem (see Figure 1). "Palladium" will not eliminate any features of Windows that users have come to rely on; everything that runs today will continue to run with "Palladium." In addition, "Palladium" does not change what can be programmed or run on the computing platform; it simply changes what can be believed about programs, and the durability of those beliefs. Moreover, "Palladium" will operate with any program the user specifies while maintaining security. It is important to note that while today's applications and devices will continue to work in "Palladium," they will gain little to no benefit from "Palladium" services. To take advantage of "Palladium," existing applications must be adapted to utilize the "Palladium" environment or new applications must be written. This software - whether a component of a Microsoft Win32®-based application or a new application - is called a Trusted Agent. "'Halo 2' is a lot like 'Halo', only it's 'Halo' on fire, going 130 miles per hour through a hospital zone, being chased by helicopters and ninjas," explained Jason Jones, the head of Bungie Studios, "and the ninjas are all on fire, too."
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Oh, and this is a nice one too: "Palladium" will not require digital rights management technology, and DRM will not require "Palladium." Digital rights management (DRM) is an important, emerging technology that many believe will be central to the digital economy of the future. As a means of defining rules and setting policies that enhance the integrity and trust of digital content consumption, DRM is vital for a wide range of content-protection uses. Some examples of DRM are the protection of valuable intellectual property, trusted e-mail and persistent protection of corporate documents. While DRM and "Palladium" are both supportive of Trustworthy Computing, neither is absolutely required for the other to work. DRM can be deployed on non-"Palladium" machines, and "Palladium" can provide users with benefits independent of DRM. They are separate technologies. That said, the current software-based DRM technologies can be rendered stronger when deployed on "Palladium"-based computers. "'Halo 2' is a lot like 'Halo', only it's 'Halo' on fire, going 130 miles per hour through a hospital zone, being chased by helicopters and ninjas," explained Jason Jones, the head of Bungie Studios, "and the ninjas are all on fire, too."
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And that "killed it"? All I see is "trusted agent" and the usual method of not alienating your entire customer-base at the outset. Really doesn't confirm anything, except that it exists. They aren't stupid, I doubt that the business plan would be posted on the front page. Hey, go back to whatever you're doing -- I'm still concerned. Security Guard: "How about some ID there, buddy?"
Me w/thong gun: "How about a sequin thong? ... *THUPT* ... " Security Guard: "Forget the ID, point me to a dancing pole!" |
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Oh, that evil Microsoft. They're always up to something... i like monkeys. are you a monkey?
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Go ahead and actually believe the Microsoft PR Machine. That link posted a couple of posts earlier has a more realistic approach than those two links that bring you to the Microsoft website. |
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I can't even be bothered to understand what that jibba-jabba means, Nova. Spare me your medical mumbo-jumbo and give it to me straight. Just like the cool kids, I have chosen to incorporate a cute kitty as my icon. Wuv.
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And you know this. Because you've obviously wiretapped the boardrooms of Microsoft. Got it. -Jon
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Right on, man. The insane, uninformed rantings of an anti-Microsoft zealot are way more credible than Microsoft's description of a Microsoft technology. i like monkeys. are you a monkey?
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leslie, They're very good at what they do. And I doubt anyone would post their business plans on the internet. Would defeat the purpose of competing, wouldn't it? Back to your code, monkey! Security Guard: "How about some ID there, buddy?"
Me w/thong gun: "How about a sequin thong? ... *THUPT* ... " Security Guard: "Forget the ID, point me to a dancing pole!" |
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Who posted their business plan? i like monkeys. are you a monkey?
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The only issue I have is that they're misusing the name of a very old and cherished entertainment institution. What next, Microsoft Superdome? |
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Monkeys aren't donkeys! Quit messing with my head! i like monkeys. are you a monkey?
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Bailey: I know you're part of that whole "compassionate female" slice of the demographic, but quite likely, for most of us, it's a little hard to imagine the leopard lost his spots. I just meant that I found the topic interesting, regardless of who posted it. ;) WWBTD?
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I am always vaguely concerned about anything done at the hardware-level of my machine. But... I don't buy the line my friends have tried to feed me about how it will be uncrackable. There's no such thing as uncrackable. It's a matter of hundreds of thousands of sixteen year old nerds working against Microsoft's comparatively tiny coding department. Like Warren, I will believe "the end to piracy" when I see it. Which will be a long, long time from now, if ever. However, subscription-based software services are the future. I don't like it any more than Caryn does, but that doesn't stop it from being the case. -chris |
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Microsoft is a wonderful company in areas where they don't have a monopoly yet. Their game controllers, for example, are awesome. It's unfortunate that they elect to only compete on merit until such time as they can compete on leverage. |
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leslie - nobody posted a business plan, my reference is to your skepticism regarding people who don't know what the ultimate positioning palladium will achieve. If I'm cautious - it doesn't mean that I think lord vader gates will be coming down the OC3 into my local ISP to hunt me down, just that I don't know what their future plans are for this, and it concerns me. Security Guard: "How about some ID there, buddy?"
Me w/thong gun: "How about a sequin thong? ... *THUPT* ... " Security Guard: "Forget the ID, point me to a dancing pole!" |
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You heard it here first, suckers! GSI is going subs-only! Heh. |
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In addition, "Palladium" does not change what can be programmed or run on the computing platform; it simply changes what can be believed about programs, and the durability of those beliefs. Moreover, "Palladium" will operate with any program the user specifies while maintaining security. WTF does that sentence mean? What do I believe about Half-Life, Opera etc. Oh I know ! I believe that these programs are not liscenced, have unauthorized modifications or they compete against MS products. My durability in these beliefs is strong since Redmond said so. Therefore Palladium will operate with this program while maintaining security by disabling it's use , erasing it's own boot sector and e-mailing Steve Ballmer that the owner of this copy of Palladium is the anti-christ. Jeez if anyone can make sense of those descriptions thay must have a degree in abnormal psych, wicca and be a blood relative of Miss Cleo. How long before the shrink-wrap license changes, easy to do under UCITA, and only Trusted Agents will be allowed to run? |
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It's the re-education camps for you, Mister Free Thinker. i like monkeys. are you a monkey?
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m0nty - No, we're not. Though I don't doubt that everyone will think that's what we're going to do, since it's what our competitors are gradually doing. -chris |
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Balderama, this one's for you. "'Halo 2' is a lot like 'Halo', only it's 'Halo' on fire, going 130 miles per hour through a hospital zone, being chased by helicopters and ninjas," explained Jason Jones, the head of Bungie Studios, "and the ninjas are all on fire, too."
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Warren, is 'pundit' still the secret word? i like monkeys. are you a monkey?
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And for my final trick... "Palladium" is an opt-in system. "Palladium" is entirely an opt-in solution; systems will ship with the "Palladium" hardware and software features turned off. The user of the system can choose to simply stay with this default setting, leaving all "Palladium"-related capabilities (hardware and software) disabled. Turning "Palladium" completely off includes turning it off in hardware, which prevents any software from turning it back on. Users have the ultimate control over their systems and their information; "Palladium" does not entail any global requirements. "'Halo 2' is a lot like 'Halo', only it's 'Halo' on fire, going 130 miles per hour through a hospital zone, being chased by helicopters and ninjas," explained Jason Jones, the head of Bungie Studios, "and the ninjas are all on fire, too."
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PlanetCrap, your #1 source on the Web for GSI corporate announcements. |
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And now for the anti-this-topic mofos: in the first link I posted in the previous post: LEVY AND I, for example, have interviewed many of the same people. But in his article, he discussed features that I was explicitly told are not part of Palladium. Now, do you think that guy LEVY from Newsweek, who is pro MS, lied, or do you think that guy who wrote the article is lying about being told some features are not part of Palladium? Microsoft will publish anything that will make users/companies want Palladium, the whole approach from a secure computing angle, while they have other personal intentions already gives it away. But once you stupid fucks agree to it, you will find out there's more to it that what MS made you believe. But guess what, then it's too late. |
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#90 Nova, how ignorant can you get? Do you really think Microsoft will allow you to turn off Palladium, so that it can't detect that your subscription for the Office applications has expired? Or so that it can't detect you are trying to play an MP3 file which you have no rights over? Think about it some more. |
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m0nty - Actually, I've gone over that topic like five times already in the GameSpy Forums, in much greater detail. =) So I guess this'd be the #2 source. -chris |
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You've heard it here first, GameSpy is going open-source! Security Guard: "How about some ID there, buddy?"
Me w/thong gun: "How about a sequin thong? ... *THUPT* ... " Security Guard: "Forget the ID, point me to a dancing pole!" |
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The way I see it, if they say you can turn it off, and then you CAN'T turn it off, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. Like I said before, Microsoft didn't get this far by being stupid. Lying about palladium's features would be a quick way to aligning most everyone against them. They can't exactly afford that right now. So you can sit in your parents' basement in wyoming, and stab at M$, but I'm inclined to believe they aren't magically making stupid business decisions all of a sudden. And don't kid yourself, lying about the features of something this big would be a bad business decision. "'Halo 2' is a lot like 'Halo', only it's 'Halo' on fire, going 130 miles per hour through a hospital zone, being chased by helicopters and ninjas," explained Jason Jones, the head of Bungie Studios, "and the ninjas are all on fire, too."
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Oh no! We're being scooped! |
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I can neither confirm nor deny any existence of open sores. That's strictly between individuals and their medical advisors. -chris |
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Caryn I just meant that I found the topic interesting, regardless of who posted it. ;) Ah see, I saw the name of the poster and assumed it must be a trollish celebration of his genitalia, skipped the whole thing. Since I didn't see any links whilst scrolling down, I knew immediately it carried no veracity on PC! Just like the cool kids, I have chosen to incorporate a cute kitty as my icon. Wuv.
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You know, every time Microsoft announces something, certain people start jumping up and down screaming about the Apocalypse. About how this is proof that Microsoft is malevolent and on the verge of taking over the world. The problem, of course, is that it never happens. We're still not wearing bland gray jumpsuits, pledging allegiance to Bill, or invading Poland. To summarize; shut up. i like monkeys. are you a monkey?
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