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T O P I C
Microsoft Palladium - We seriously challenge your intelligence!
August 9th 2002, 15:28 CEST by The_Joker

Remember when Microsoft announced Hailstorm - "All your personal information are belong to us"? Nobody was interested because it was too risky, and people did not trust Microsoft with their personal information, let alone the fact that Microsoft would actually have full control over it. Microsoft basically had to forget about implementing Hailstorm for a while. Then came .NET - "You know, we have to admit we don't have the slightest clue as to what .NET really is or should be. In fact, we have to re-think this one. I give my company a C for its .NET understanding and implementation. - Bill Gates and co.".

If you can remember these two Microsoft initiatives, combine them together, add a security smokescreen to it, and you have an important part of Palladium.

When Microsoft realized they could not convince people about the benefits of Hailstorm, they went back to the drawing board. And they came with a very smart solution. I imagine one Microsoft exec probably said "Hey, it's not the end-users who have to decide here, it's the major players in the digital world, like hardware manufacturers, music companies, Hollywood etc. If we manage to convince them, so that they accept the technology and implement it, the end-users will have no choice." So instead of targeting end-users, they reworked the Hailstorm plan, and are now targeting businesses. And in order to do that, they have to offer these businesses something that they can't refuse, and badly need right now:

Introducing Digital Rights Management, an important part of Palladium. This technology will finally give the Music Industry and Hollywood what they want, full control over their properties, not to mention giving Microsoft what they want, full control over their software. To be as secure as possible, Microsoft wants to implement this at the hardware level. Think DRM-enabled CPUs, Soundcards, CD-ROMS, you name it. In the future you will not be able to play your MP3's on the next version of Windows, currently codenamed Longhorn, the first version of Windows scheduled to ship with Palladium. Why not? Because the OS and/or the hardware you're running will detect that you have no rights to play those MP3s, and that you need to purchase the rights first. And when you do, Microsoft and its partners will be able to track exactly how long you may listen to a specific song, or use a specific application, until you have to purchase rights again.
That's right, what works for the Music Industry will also work for Microsoft. Surprised? It's what they have been working towards the last 2 years. Subscription-based software. With Palladium it'll be easy to implement this. For example when you'll want to use Office, you'll need to buy a subscription for the Office applications you want to use, and Microsoft will be able to shut down the service when the subscription expires. Remember Product Activation? Product Activation was essentially just a preview and a way for Microsoft to already let end-users realize it would begin to enforce its licensing policies. Palladium will be many times worse, it will enable Microsoft to unleash astronomical amounts of massive shitfuckery on end-users.

And all this tracking of your active subscriptions, your purchased rights etc. would have to be done by Microsoft and its Partners, you didn't think it would be managed locally on your computer did you - no way, that would enable hackers to easily crack it! Does this begin to ring a couple of bells? Perhaps detonate a few bombs as well? If you ask me, it sounds a lot like project Hailstorm - "All your personal information are belong to us." Microsoft and its partners will have to set up systems to manage al this data for all the millions of users out there. There will be _no_ avoiding it, you will have to set up a Passport account with your information so that Microsoft and its partners can track your account information online. And again, Microsoft will have full control. I don't think they will settle for less. Why not?

Enter the .NET initiative, whatever that is, since not even its creators seem to know. A secure operating system will have to be able to control what is safe to run, and what not. This can only be done if the OS itself 'knows' what the code is trying to do or access. This is possible in .NET due to managed code - code that runs based on permissions and security settings. If the OS detects that code in a program is trying to access resources that it does not have permissions for, it basically blocks the code from execution. That alone is not enough. To be really secure, Microsoft will probably require software to be digitally signed. Much like with drivers on Windows 2000 and XP, but you may not have the option to run unsigned software. Signed software will make it very difficult to impossible to crack software because the OS will be able to check (at the hardware level for maximum security) if the executable matches the criteria in the encrypted signature, which could be (a combination of) the size of the executable, the CRC checksum, etc. This could also mean extra pains for developers, or having to jump through extra hoops to get their software working on the computers of end-users.

And if you havenít realized this yet, all of this will require the Internet. You will need an Internet connection to be able to do most of the things you can do today without an Internet connection. How else will the OS check your subscriptions and purchased digital rights managed somewhere else in the world on Microsoft systems? How else will the OS download encrypted digital signatures for software youíre trying to run on your PC? This is where web services and XML will play an important role also. And for those who donít know, thatís also part of .NET.

Although there are benefits to all of this, end-users will have to give up a lot of their freedom, and will be forced to give a lot of control to Microsoft and its partners. This will change the world of personal computing as we know it, without a doubt. How the market will react to the implementation of Palladium remains to be seen. Will consumers instead look for hardware that's not Palladium enabled? Will those hardware companies be making the big bucks, effectively forcing other hardware companies making Palladium hardware to stop supporting Palladium? Or will there be a law or regulations that will require hardware manufacturers to make Palladium enabled hardware, or else face an industry-wide boycott?

I'm interested in hearing what the rest of Planetcrap thinks of this, but me and my wang don't like it one bit. I like my freedom. And so does my wang.
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Microsoft Palladium - We seriously challenge your intelligence!

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#1 by Chunkstyle
2002-08-09 15:28:35
Um, first?
#2 by Warren Marshall
2002-08-09 15:29:00
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Whoever voted this in is a horrible, horrible monster.

"It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
#3 by deadlock
2002-08-09 15:33:21
http://www.deadlocked.org/
does anybody know where the toilets are ?

When they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out ? Will you defend me ?
Freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
Trampled underfoot by the rise of the right
#4 by deadlock
2002-08-09 15:33:53
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Boy, am I glad I'm still using AmigaOS 3.1.

When they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out ? Will you defend me ?
Freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
Trampled underfoot by the rise of the right
#5 by Fallon
2002-08-09 15:36:52
http://www.fagnews.com
Yes Microsoft are evil for whatever reason it is this time.

Can we talk about Medieval: Total War now?

Put out your doubts, dump 'em in a fishing net
#6 by Warren Marshall
2002-08-09 15:37:49
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Chunkstyle

*points to door*

ShugaShack is over that way ...

"It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
#7 by m0nty
2002-08-09 15:37:52
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
I think it's endearing that Karel is trying so hard to be all serious and mature, just like us adults.

Nevertheless, this is Just Another Warez Thread.
#8 by Leslie Nassar
2002-08-09 15:51:26
http://departmentofinternets.com
Joker just doesn't want to walk 20 miles barefoot, in the snow, each way, with the landmines and the dogs and the parking inspectors, so that his OS can make sure he bought that copy of Girls Gone Wild.

I'm disappointed that the topic didn't use the term "slippery slope" when talking about the loss of user "freedom".  It could have been improved by equating Microsoft centralized DRM to the ATF's gun tracking initiative.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#9 by Leslie Nassar
2002-08-09 15:53:57
http://departmentofinternets.com
Oh, and the CIA.  There's no mention of the CIA and Microsoft is spelled correctly with no dollarsigns-instead-of-S's.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#10 by Warren Marshall
2002-08-09 15:58:46
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
I'm disappointed that the topic didn't use the term "slippery slope" when talking about the loss of user "freedom".  It could have been improved by equating Microsoft centralized DRM to the ATF's gun tracking initiative.


Oh, and the CIA.  There's no mention of the CIA and Microsoft is spelled correctly with no dollarsigns-instead-of-S's.

What kind of shit hole topic is this!?

"It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
#11 by Matt Davis
2002-08-09 15:59:39
http://looroll.com
Whatever, if this happens to computers I'll go back to my Vic20 and just play JetPak till I die

Ellen Feiss is my stoned goddess
#12 by Desiato
2002-08-09 16:04:46
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Before you dump on the "Daikatana"-esque bandwagon of bashing the topic and/or joker, perhaps reading another source like this will help. You can possibly claim the author is biased, but at least a cambridge researcher has the credentials to back up his speculations.

Any serious thought?

Or is everyone just going to go back swapping tips about how to use eDonkey, Kazaa, Sharereactor, etc..

Of course, if the next iteration of Microsoft's OS prevented the above from running, I suppose you'd care more.

Security Guard: "How about some ID there, buddy?"
Me w/thong gun: "How about a sequin thong? ... *THUPT* ... "
Security Guard: "Forget the ID, point me to a dancing pole!"
#13 by Desiato
2002-08-09 16:05:53
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Gimme a 'j' for JUMP....not the ill-referenced 'dump'.

*sigh*

Security Guard: "How about some ID there, buddy?"
Me w/thong gun: "How about a sequin thong? ... *THUPT* ... "
Security Guard: "Forget the ID, point me to a dancing pole!"
#14 by Wheelie
2002-08-09 16:28:28
play JetPak till I die


JetPak RULEZ!
oooooooh the memories...

Wheelie doesn't care about teh funnay. He's a nihilist.
#15 by "Balderama"
2002-08-09 16:32:45
support@real.com www.planetcrap.com
Why would anyone want to bash the topic? Don't you people realize the consequences of what is described in Joker's article?? Fuck, if this happens, it won't be fun at all to even own a fucking computer.
#16 by Fallon
2002-08-09 16:46:39
http://www.fagnews.com
This just reminds me of people moaning about various Windows XP issues. In the end it hardly made a dent.

Put out your doubts, dump 'em in a fishing net
#17 by LPMiller
2002-08-09 16:47:39
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Click, click boom.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#18 by Warren Marshall
2002-08-09 16:48:41
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Yay, the end times are nigh!  Microsoft has seized control of the planet and are after my personal information.  Roll the boulders in front of the gates!  Start heating the oil!  The barbarians won't get in without a fight!!

"It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
#19 by deadlock
2002-08-09 17:00:15
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Someone please explain to me why I, as someone who only uses MS products in work, should give a toss about this ?

When they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out ? Will you defend me ?
Freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
Trampled underfoot by the rise of the right
#20 by Desiato
2002-08-09 17:03:20
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Yeah there are extremes of the scale.

I'm not advocating the "burn the observatory so this never happens again" approach, but prudent interest would be warranted.

So why can't I get a single comment pro/con that doesn't involve foaming at the mouth and falling backwards, either way?

Security Guard: "How about some ID there, buddy?"
Me w/thong gun: "How about a sequin thong? ... *THUPT* ... "
Security Guard: "Forget the ID, point me to a dancing pole!"
#21 by m0nty
2002-08-09 17:05:33
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Mad propz to Des for the Asimov ref.
#22 by Caryn
2002-08-09 17:10:45
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
I think it's a good topic, and I voted yes on it. Everyone so far has called it another warez topic or otherwise made fun of it, but I think Joker (for once) and Desiato raise a good point. For all of you Donkeying away into the wee hours of the morning, what are you going to do when the next MS OS doesn't let you? It's certainly a relevant topic.

I for one am growing more and more uneasy at the thought of MS having so much control over my personal information. The problem is, I feel helpless to stop it. I need to work on an MS OS. I also don't like the idea of subscription-based applications -- I should be able to buy MS Office once, not pay to keep using it. I'm not sure why I feel that the former is right and the latter is wrong when I really think about it, but it just feels that way.

In response to what Joker posed at the end, I for one would definitely look for hardware that circumvented Palladium -- in fact, it would be the first time I would actively avoid letting MS have so much control over my information. Would the average consumer do that? I doubt it. My guess is that the average consumer prefers convenience over personal information security and are willing to trust MS with their personal information if it saves some time. My guess would be that Palladium would become entrenched and no one will bother to do anything about it, though many will continue to complain that Big Brother is approaching. On the one hand, I'd like to say that they should get off their ass and do something about it. On the other I think, what can you do?

"I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you quantum physics!"
#23 by MCorleone
2002-08-09 17:11:10
Give it up for your homies, yo.

I said ve're going to cut off your CHONSON!
#24 by Caryn
2002-08-09 17:17:37
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
m0nty:

Mad propz to Des for the Asimov ref.


Either that or he was making a Simpsons reference to the episode where the meteor is going to devastate Springfield, but that in turn is a reference to Asimov's "Nightfall", mad props either way. :)

"I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you quantum physics!"
#25 by Caryn
2002-08-09 17:20:39
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
Thinking about it more, I'm really, really ignorant about OS and hardware issues, and my post above could be off-topic -- Palladium sounds more like it has to do with preventing software piracy than it does gathering personal information. So maybe I'm off-base.

"I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you quantum physics!"
#26 by Greg
2002-08-09 17:22:13
My biggest concern as a software developer with Palladium and other trusted-computing approaches, is that they will only allow trusted code. That will add a burden on every software developer to go through whatever hoops are put up, just so that their code can run on someone else's system.

My current project at work entails over a hundred distinct software components. Each component, each version, would need to be reapproved and marked. The amount of time added to each build would probably be significant, as we'd have to wait for our code to be approved. Significant enough that we'd not be able to deliver fixes in a timely fashion, thus pissing off our current customers and having a more difficult time attracting new customers.

In a word, bad for business.

Who is driving car?! Oh my god, bear is driving car! How can that be?
#27 by Ed
2002-08-09 17:23:25
coj@funkatron.com http://www.funkatron.com
Caryn:

What apps -- other than games -- do you need a MS OS to run?  I can think of a few that you really *need* Windows for, but I've normally found that except for games, you can find something functionally equivalent on other OSes.

Lest you think me a zealot, I run Windows on the majority of my machines.  But these DRM/privacy issues that have been coming up with MS have made me think a lot harder about what other options there are.

-Ed

"I'm running the same race as you brother, why are you tripping me up?"
#28 by Caryn
2002-08-09 17:25:39
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
Ed:

I work for Activision doing online marketing and stuff for titles like Wolfenstein, SoF2, etc. -- I have to have early builds of the games to do much of my work. Those builds only run on Windows machines.

"I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you quantum physics!"
#29 by Ed
2002-08-09 17:26:38
coj@funkatron.com http://www.funkatron.com
*nod* But you could do everything but run the games on a different OS?

"I'm running the same race as you brother, why are you tripping me up?"
#30 by Leslie Nassar
2002-08-09 17:27:23
http://departmentofinternets.com
My current project at work entails over a hundred distinct software components. Each component, each version, would need to be reapproved and marked.

Or you could get a certificate and sign your code.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#31 by Greg
2002-08-09 17:30:36
I did not know that the signing could be done by me.

Woo! Then I'm all for Palladium! Or something.

But couldn't I just write a piracy/P2P app then, and sign it?

Who is driving car?! Oh my god, bear is driving car! How can that be?
#32 by MoNo
2002-08-09 17:30:40
one of the interesting things is that palladium is braking so many norwegian laws about comercial database handling that it probably never is going to be posible to sell it. norwegian laws are actualy so strict that back in school i  had a go trough of the laws as part of the database classes.:) you actually need special compensation from the goverment to store anything more than name and address in your customer database. a grossery chain cant for example store what you are buying with a link to your name. so i dont worry to much about palladium because it and the hardware it runs on is not legal here.
/rantmode off

"your belief-system is not louder than my car-system." Saul Williams
#33 by Desiato
2002-08-09 17:32:17
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Yes it was a simpsons reference, but I am aware of the "Nightfall" one as well.

I'm shooting for the middle.

(FreeLove)-------(OS/Software right now)------(Lockdown, lights out)

XP was the first big commotion. It ended up being less than what it could have been. For that, I'm grateful. But the problem is that if we don't keep our eye on this issue, be critical and extrapolate every possible abuse, then we deserve to reap our lack of interest if the extreme scenario is realized. The pressure against XP's activation encouraged change to the system we have now. If there isn't any pressure from consumers, then we'll get closer to the "lockdown" scenario than we would care to be.

I just want enough public talk about it so at least there's an awareness from the entities considering this plan to take a step back and reconsider certain details.

Security Guard: "How about some ID there, buddy?"
Me w/thong gun: "How about a sequin thong? ... *THUPT* ... "
Security Guard: "Forget the ID, point me to a dancing pole!"
#34 by Leslie Nassar
2002-08-09 17:33:24
http://departmentofinternets.com
But couldn't I just write a piracy/P2P app then, and sign it?

You could, but keep in mind that Certificates and Digital IDs can be revoked by the CA.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#35 by Desiato
2002-08-09 17:33:53
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Yeah...verisign - very nice, one free trial then it's $400+ for a cert. I'm sure all the p2p authors will be springing for that mega-deal.

(That cold wind? It's chilling sarcasm)

Security Guard: "How about some ID there, buddy?"
Me w/thong gun: "How about a sequin thong? ... *THUPT* ... "
Security Guard: "Forget the ID, point me to a dancing pole!"
#36 by Charles
2002-08-09 17:34:25
www.bluh.org
You know, I'm pretty sure everyone is horribly overreacting.  MS isn't stupid.  They didn't get this far by being stupid.  

So far I've read:

A) MS is going to release the sourcecode for the palladium stuff.
B) All palladium features will be customizable on a per app basis, by the user.
C) It's mostly just a glorified hardware implementation of public key cryptography, which isn't really a bad thing, and can't really be used against you.
D) It will require the cooperation of hardware manufacturers of motherboards and processors.

Now, I figure D is the big rub.  Intel has always been pretty sound of mind when it comes to user privacy and stuff.  Despite a few mishaps, which they corrected (based on public outcry), they've always been against things that most of the geek community has been against.  Last I heard, they were even against DRM.  Now how do you suppose MS is going to convince a hardware giant like intel to add features in to all the hardware they make?  Somehow I doubt that will happen.  

And anyway, the fact of the matter is that even if this were to get the full green light (which I seriously, seriously doubt), there'd be a mod chip available within a month, and software patches for windows within a day.  

This is a non-issue.

"'Halo 2' is a lot like 'Halo', only it's 'Halo' on fire, going 130 miles per hour through a hospital zone, being chased by helicopters and ninjas," explained Jason Jones, the head of Bungie Studios, "and the ninjas are all on fire, too."
#37 by m0nty
2002-08-09 17:38:01
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
ObSlashDot: Lindows.
#38 by Caryn
2002-08-09 17:38:10
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
*nod* But you could do everything but run the games on a different OS?


Yeah, but why would I want to have two different OS's to accomplish this? I've got to get out of one OS whenever I need to load up one of our games, which is frequently? Let me rephrase: I can't do my work realistically on anything but a Windows OS.

"I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you quantum physics!"
#39 by Charles
2002-08-09 17:38:20
www.bluh.org
Oh, and I also read that AMD is jumping up and down for the chance to be Microsoft's lapdog on this one.  Which would be suicide, IMO, since the geek community is AMD's biggest set of supporters.  One mention of a hardware implementation of this on AMD chips and AMD will magically find themselves without any sales or userbase.

"'Halo 2' is a lot like 'Halo', only it's 'Halo' on fire, going 130 miles per hour through a hospital zone, being chased by helicopters and ninjas," explained Jason Jones, the head of Bungie Studios, "and the ninjas are all on fire, too."
#40 by Ed
2002-08-09 17:40:53
coj@funkatron.com http://www.funkatron.com

 Yeah, but why would I want to have two different OS's to accomplish this? I've got to get out of one OS whenever I need to load up one of our games, which is frequently? Let me rephrase: I can't do my work realistically on anything but a Windows OS.


Makes sense.

I think that for the majority of people, though, Windows isn't a requirement -- it's just what comes on the machines they always buy.  Ignoring gaming, of course.

"I'm running the same race as you brother, why are you tripping me up?"
#41 by Leslie Nassar
2002-08-09 17:42:24
http://departmentofinternets.com
What are the Slashbots going to use if AMD and Intel adopt Palladium?  Transmeta?

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#42 by Ed
2002-08-09 17:44:16
coj@funkatron.com http://www.funkatron.com
Yellow Dog Linux on PPC.

"I'm running the same race as you brother, why are you tripping me up?"
#43 by Greg
2002-08-09 17:45:13
Uh oh, and what if Apple drops PPC for x86? NO MORE OPTIONS.

Who is driving car?! Oh my god, bear is driving car! How can that be?
#44 by Ed
2002-08-09 17:46:29
coj@funkatron.com http://www.funkatron.com
WE'RE FUCKED

"I'm running the same race as you brother, why are you tripping me up?"
#45 by Duality
2002-08-09 17:54:00
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
For all of you Donkeying away into the wee hours of the morning, what are you going to do when the next MS OS doesn't let you? It's certainly a relevant topic.

Not upgrade.

Seriously, I'm trying to figure out where it says I must upgrade my OS to Windows 1984.

I for one am growing more and more uneasy at the thought of MS having so much control over my personal information. The problem is, I feel helpless to stop it.

As am I.  But I really don't see this as gaining too much acceptance.

1) Its going to start at the manufacturer level.  That's where they plan on releasing Palladium and TCPA hardware to.  The technical minority (minority in respect to computer users in general) won't go near it.

2) A company will provide hardware for a niche market willing to spend money on TCPA-free hardware

3) When it comes to pirated music/software, I think enough people have tasted the MP3 craze to know that they wouldn't like hardware/software that refused to let them grab their favorite MP3s to burn to CD for mom or dad.

4) I think people are a lot more hesitant about providing personal information than we think.  There are constant reminders in your local news about frauds and scams, with the token reminder of never giving your personal information out to anybody.

Expanding on that further, many people still have apprehensions toward shopping online.  I think that will spill over into people's reluctance to provide information like credit card numbers and the like to Microsoft.

I should be able to buy MS Office once, not pay to keep using it. I'm not sure why I feel that the former is right and the latter is wrong when I really think about it, but it just feels that way.

Probably because thus far most, if not all Microsoft products have been products and not services, as I see it.  Subscriptions generally provide new, consistency in content.  I fail to see what Microsoft has to offer that would allow for a subscription-based model.  Give me the product.  If there are problems in this product, I expect the company to fix those errors as a courtesy, not an additional support fee, and certainly not a regular fee that I will be charged, even if I have no problems.

I subscribe to ObjectDesktop.net.  Its a suite of apps that will modify your desktop made by Stardock.  This I accept as a subscription because they make new applications available to download.  $50 per year for about 10 apps that are between $10 and $20 individually.  If Microsoft were to offer this sort of service, then I would see a subscription as making sense, otherwise its just them trying to have more control of who uses and who doesn't use their product and possibly even make more money.

On the one hand, I'd like to say that they should get off their ass and do something about it. On the other I think, what can you do?

They?  Or We?  If it really is going to affect all of us, don't you think it should be we, the people affected, who do something about it?

But like you said -- what can we do?

What Would Bailey Do?

-Jon
#46 by "Anonymous"
2002-08-09 18:08:54
No alternative OS will save you from Palladium if the laws pass because they will regulate all forms of digital copyright and software transactions. Forget any OS's such as Linux etc saving your ass. UCITA will prohibit public criticism of any product, reverse engineering , allow vendors to determine jurisdiction for litigation, and permit vendors to assume rights to creative endeavors of users and to change contract terms anytime with the added bonus of freeing them from any warranties that guarantee proper functionality of their own software. Right now, just with DCMA, there is no "legal" way to play DVD's on Linux. Researcher's of major universities must ask permission to exhibit security flaws in software or risk getting sued. Alan Cox, a major kernel developer for Linux behind Torvalds, resigned from Usenix and will no longer travel to the US because of DCMA and UCITA. Others are starting to follow in his footsteps.

Right now Congress is pushing bills that would protect copyright holders from any legal actions that result from DoS attacks on people "they suspect" of using material in an unauthorized way on P2P network. The CSEA act just passed that allows the federal government to tap or seize all your electronic communication without warrant or probable cause.  

Before you blow this topic off and return to which archiver is the best at least educate yourself a little.
www.eff.org
www.badsoftware.com
#47 by Caryn
2002-08-09 18:09:32
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
Duality:

Probably because thus far most, if not all Microsoft products have been products and not services, as I see it.  Subscriptions generally provide new, consistency in content.


Bingo -- you just laid out what it was I was trying to formulate in my pre-coffee fog.

What Would Bailey Do?


THIS is my new guiding directive from here on out. Only I think I like "What Would Baileytron Do?"

"I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you quantum physics!"
#48 by mgns
2002-08-09 18:13:36
one of the interesting things is that palladium is braking so many norwegian laws about comercial database handling that it probably never is going to be posible to sell it.


'Cause we all now that Microsoft bases the majority of their business decissions on what the norwegian legislation says.

Yeah.

*nods head*

professional philosophical level design monkey.
#49 by m0nty
2002-08-09 18:13:50
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Baileytron would rust like a '57 Chevy in an industrial waste dump, and do exactly diddly squat. Which makes for a good metaphor, really.
#50 by MoNo
2002-08-09 18:15:36
yeah but it will be fun to watch the hillarity ensue following the release. :)

"your belief-system is not louder than my car-system." Saul Williams
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