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Seriously Flawed
June 9th 2000, 22:34 CEST by andy

Judging by the excited e-mails I've received this week, and similarly enthusiastic comments I've seen on da web, it looks like the boys at Id and Epic might have some new competition in the engine stakes...



Released just over a week ago, the test version of Serious Sam promises pretty much everything that gamers have been demanding. Indoor and outdoor environments, lots of enemies on screen, real-time shadows and physics, portals, reflections, fog, level-of-detail scaling, bump mapping... and a load of other stuff.

Although it requires a beast of a machine to run on, the one prevailing comment I've seen about the game is that it is solid and very stable, as well as being a lot of fun and delivering everything it promises. And by keeping quiet about it until recently, developers Croteam have avoided a lot of the unwarranted criticisms made of Epic before and after Unreal's release.

But, sadly, there is a negative angle to consider.

Croteam doesn't seem to have the first clue about marketing. Never has such a promising game been destined to fail so dramatically.

For a start, the name. Serious Sam. Puh-lease... what sort of a name is that for a hard-edged shooter?

Imagine if Doom had been called Hell Blaster. Or Quake had been called Demon Hunter. Would Half-Life have sold so well if it had been called Alien Invasion? No, because in any consumer market, the right image is the key to success, and the most important part of any product's image is its name.

Secondly, if the Croteam web site is anything to go by, the game is going to be advertised and packaged to look like something for five year olds. This confusion will be enforced by the similarity between the Serious Sam logo and the logo of kids' TV show Fireman Sam, at least here in the UK.

So is this game going to sink without trace because most of its target audience won't even bother to pick up the box and have a look at it?

Will the hard-core gamers who even know about it in advance be able to set aside the kid's game image and enjoy the action? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Most of us wouldn't buy an Id game based on the Teletubbies, and we wouldn't go to see a John Woo film based on the Wombles. Time and time again, decent companies with good products learn to their cost that image is everything, and it looks like Croteam will be the next victims.

C O M M E N T S
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#1 by "Diseased"
2000-06-09 22:36:50
diseasedanimal@yahoo.com
Serious Sam is awesome.  Just played it and haven't felt so in charge of carnage since the original Doom.
#2 by ""
2000-06-09 22:39:23
Heh can't these companies get two things right? Look at daikatana - serious hype (in a way) then...game sucks. Serious Sam, never heard of it -- yet demo is great.

Hmm live and learn i guess
#3 by "Diseased"
2000-06-09 22:39:57
diseasedanimal@yahoo.com
Hmmm...rereading the original post though I do feel kinda bad for Croteam as I don't see this as being a big hit.  If this game does become successful however it will be the greatest testament ever to Internet community-based marketing.
#4 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-06-09 22:54:32
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.greenmarine.org/
I don't really dig on the Serious Sam engine, but these guys know their raw action gameplay.

The key is keeping people on their toes.  When you keep the player looking over their shoulder, you've got something right.
#5 by "|SnappY|"
2000-06-09 22:56:11
snap@nwlink.com
Andy says:
'No, because in any consumer market, the right image is the key to success, and the most important part of any product's image is its name.'


Maybe in the U.S. and Britain... mostly just in the U.S.
We even have soda companies telling us that image is nothing and that THIRST is everything.

Look at the games main character, weilding a MASSIVELY HUGE gatling gun. I think the name is apt, it's funny, and can't possibly be serious.

How can you predict that it is 'destined to fail so dramatically' so soon?

The game play should speak for itself. Is there a real topic in this topic?

We already know about the game, and many people are saying it's a real blast... word of mouth is stronger in this community than pretty colors on cardboard.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#6 by "crash"
2000-06-09 23:01:20
crash@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
the key to any successful marketing campaign is simply exposure--enough people see it, the word gets around, and bam. to put it another way: how much marketing did Myst have when it first came out?

for me, i finally got around to checking it out, and i'll be damned if this isn't the first game i've played--in a very, very long time--that hasn't made me laugh out loud in joy because it was so fun to play. favorite: the kamikaze bombers. "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh". :)

it'll become known. believe me.
#7 by "Darkseid"
2000-06-09 23:07:32
Darkseid-D@planetcrap.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
for me .. the highlight, is dodging those damn bulls ...

Snick BOOM, Snick BOOM  *sidestep* OLE'   snick BOOM .. *beast flops in an untidy heap*


oh and the chaingun is a right larf :)


this is the kind of game that might do well on word of mouth ... however other games like SS2 DIDNT do so well despite being great games ... because people just didnt buy em (or couldnt in some cases)

Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#8 by "Fortyseven[BTEG]"
2000-06-09 23:09:25
47@spacemoose.com http://www.bteg.com
When I first heard the name of the game and the developers behind it, I checked out their site...and wasn't really impressed by the entire presentation.  They really do need to hire someone to fix up their image. :)  I imediately dismissed the game as either potential $19.95 Wal-Mart fare, or a joke.  But now that I've read this PC article about it, I might grab the compatability demo and check it out.  Thank god for word of mouth, or I'd have ignored it. ;P
#9 by "Rantage"
2000-06-09 23:10:04
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
I'll say one thing about Croteam: <I>they never said they'd make anyone their bitch.</I>

If the product is good, gamers will play it.  The original TeamFortress, for instance, didn't have a pretty box or an incredibly great name yet became so popular it spawned Valve's TFC and the upcoming TF2.

If nothing else, some third party will take a look at the <A HREF="http://croteam.x-interactive.com/engine_features.html">engine's features</A> and develop a game more suitable to Andy's tastes. :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "Geoffrois"
2000-06-09 23:12:49
I have to agree with post #5, sure the character looks like Hulk Hogan with a t-shirt but gameplay is everything and no one really cares about pretty logos or name. If those 10 guys at Croteam passed all their time creating banners and writing on boards, the game wouldn't be 1/10th of what it is right now.

And you shouldn't judge the final system requirement by the technology demo they released cause this one is made especially for big machines.
#11 by "erik"
2000-06-09 23:15:57
erik@oldmanmurray.com http://www.oldmanmurray.com
"Most of us wouldn't buy an Id game based on the Teletubbies"

Jesus, I'd buy an id game based on the Teletubbies.  I *won't* buy an another id game based on running around a grungy space station.  Serious Sam sure is getting a lot of press lately.

Erik
#12 by "|SnappY|"
2000-06-09 23:25:29
snap@nwlink.com
<b>#11</b> "erik" wrote...
<QUOTE>"Most of us wouldn't buy an Id game based on the Teletubbies"

Jesus, I'd buy an id game based on the Teletubbies. I *won't* buy an another id game based on running around a grungy space station. Serious Sam sure is getting a lot of press lately.

Erik </QUOTE>

Could it be due to the FIRST exposure EVER it got via OMM?   ;) ;) nudge nudge.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#13 by "Rantage"
2000-06-09 23:25:44
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#11</b> "erik" wrote...
<QUOTE>
Jesus, I'd buy an id game based on the Teletubbies.</QUOTE>

I would too, if you were allowed to shoot them.  For that matter, I'd pay good money for an id <I>Pokemon</I> game with the same conditions.

After seeing the kiddie-targeted idiocy coming out of Japan for the last decade, I'm beginning to suspect that WWII not only is still going on, but we're losing.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#14 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-06-09 23:35:49
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
The reaction to the game has been interesting. I wonder if people would be saying the same nearly uniformly positive things if we'd been reading previews of it for the last two years and it had been released by ION Storm or 3D Realms or Epic.

OK, the game IS fun and all, and I think the kamikaze guys are particularly brilliant, but it's a "throwback" game, and people have been criticizing other games for not being advanced... seems there's a slight double standard.

I do believe the positive reaction to the engine has everything to do with it being bright and open as opposed to dark and claustrophobic.
#15 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-06-09 23:42:15
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.greenmarine.org/
I don't think the double standard applies to the mindset here.  This is a game coming from an unknown company with an unknown budget, etc etc.  People had no expectations and so forth.  They accept it knowing its retro.

On the other hand, people expect a certain amount of something from id, Epic, or 3D Realms.

I'm starting to like the 3D Realms style of media control.  Don't hype your game until its ready to go...  It just seems to make sense.  Like movies.
#16 by "|SnappY|"
2000-06-09 23:43:05
snap@nwlink.com
I don't know if it's a double standard so much as it is just being 'done right', without a ton of marketing hype and marketed egos to go along with it all.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#17 by "Apache"
2000-06-10 00:24:54
apache@warzone.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
cool game, needs a better name though :)
#18 by "Slate"
2000-06-10 00:26:45
This is sad.  You guys are knocking the game for the marketing?  Sure when the demo first came out no one mentioned it.  I read about it on oldmanmurray (who by the way have a great interview up with one of the guys from the team. http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/serioussam/interview1.shtml )

Seems even the big game sites missed this one because they based it on the packaging.  (and remember it is a test, you gave Quake a break on system req for its test, why not here?)  Never though I would be visiting omm for real news.

Kids image?  Should you be throwing 401k plans at the baddies?

<quote>The reaction to the game has been interesting. I wonder if people would be saying the same nearly uniformly positive things if we'd been reading previews of it for the last two years and it had been released by ION Storm or 3D Realms or Epic. </quote>

I don't want to hear about any game for two years.  I think what depresses people about the years of hype is the game never delivers.  Compare the hype to game if it matches no one will mind but if you have to listen to Romero go on and on about the great AI and then you play daikatana...  well... he deserves it.
#19 by "undule"
2000-06-10 00:30:32
undule@tampabay.rr.com
LOL! Thanks for the tip, PC -- highly amusing. Gnarr, the one-eyed sewer beast is enough for me -- glad to see ass-faced antics are still at a premium. Dl'ing now . . .
#20 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-06-10 00:31:25
piramida@usa.net http://www.agsm.net
I think if they find a decent publisher who can put some money in advertising campaign and box art, plus maybe change the name to something more arcane and destructive-sounding, the game would sell well.

I know I'd buy it even if it would go with the same cheesy appearance/name it has now, but it would be the publishers job to convince masses to go out and buy the game. I hope CroTeam makes a right choice, maybe then we'd see some more great FPSes from them in the future. Someone should already take id's throne which is almost empty now... :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#21 by "undule"
2000-06-10 00:35:34
undule@tampabay.rr.com
And yes, it is fair to critique a game on it's image -- they are inseparable. I fail to see how a game so obviously -- and crudely -- intended for simpletons and blowupshit fans could contend with other games marketed solely at blowupshit fans. GHAHA! I think it's a great dose of whimsy.

Spelling and grammar corrections welcome.
#22 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-06-10 00:51:20
piramida@usa.net http://www.agsm.net
Somewhat offtopic, but maybe anyone want to register planetserioussam.com? It is still free from some well known corporation's attention :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#23 by "Seven Tacos"
2000-06-10 00:58:37
kurto@asgaard.usu.edu
Just played part of the tech test. It's interesting. Some definite Doom elements in there. And I'm not talking generalities. How about the growing, charging dudes. With an invisible version. It even has it's dark areas.

I don't like it's controls. A lot like Unreal's. Which are Not So Good(tm). The are way too digital. These developers need to think analog, acceleration and deceleration.

The engine isn't really anything special. I like how the managed the lens flares. Even though you don't get lens flares on your eyeballs... I don't see anything there that couldn't be done with Epic's or Id's engines.
#24 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-06-10 01:00:06
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.greenmarine.org/
Damn, Seven Tacos, your name makes me HUNGRY.
#25 by "Apache"
2000-06-10 01:18:50
apache@warzone.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
mmm tacos, I'll take eight!
#26 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-06-10 01:22:35
sgt_hulka@yahoo.com http://www.hulka.com
What I find funny is the fact that http://www.planetsam.com is taken, but not by the BSI Wizards, but by some other creep who says "I am your alien host Sosat."

Serious Sam Kicks Serious Ass (And I said it before Erik, so there!)
#27 by "deadlock"
2000-06-10 01:26:13
deadlock@eircom.net
I've been drinking and therefore can't be fucking arsed reading anything other than the first 2/3 paragraphs of the article, so forgive me if i've missed the point or if i'm repeating what someone else has said.

deadlock
#28 by "None-1a"
2000-06-10 01:31:16
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#10</b> "Geoffrois" wrote...
<QUOTE>And you shouldn't judge the final system requirement by the technology demo they released cause this one is made especially for big machines. </QUOTE>

Suprisingly enough I managed to get the game running on a P233, 64Megs, and a Voodoo2 (8 meg), it ran some where between good and ok in inclosed spaces, and some where between bad, and just playable in open areas, i'll be keeping an eye on any future test/demos just to see if things improve on the low end (note to every one else, even if you don't have a moster system download it and give it a shot, it'll at lest gie you an idea if you want to keep tabs on it or not).

<b>#16</b> "|SnappY|" wrote...
<QUOTE>I don't know if it's a double standard so much as it is just being 'done right', without a ton of marketing hype and marketed egos to go along with it all. </QUOTE>

I really don't mind a game with a ton of hype (or egos for that matter) as long as it's fun to play (I don't even mind if it hits every point of the prerelese hype as long as it's good). <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#29 by "Seven Tacos"
2000-06-10 01:33:55
kurto@asgaard.usu.edu
#24/#25-

Lol. Just be glad my brother Thirteen Burritos isn't hanging out... :)
#30 by "deadlock"
2000-06-10 01:36:16
deadlock@eircom.net
shite, forgot to write what goes before that bit. so here it is:

in short, it was bound to happen. it is inevitable that sooner or later a programmer or programming house is going to come along that kicks id/carmack/epic's arse. I didn't bother d/ling that Serious Sam demo, because when Happy Cow said it was a bit like Doom, i thought 'shite another f*cking pseudo-three-d engine based sprite blast thing (ta fuck)'. Looking at the screenshots, i can see that it's actually done in Real3D (tm (tm and copyright arseholes who write TM after everything clichèd in the world of internet forums)).

Oh yeah, on another subject, any of you Brits/Irish/English-speaking Europeans ever notice that when Americans do documentaries, no matter how joyful/uplifting/life-affirming the topic, they always use some bloke who sounds like he is commentating on the most horrendous disaster known to man ? 'And so... the albatross chicklings... learn... to fly... next week... we... watch a... tigress... teach her cubs... how to hunt... and you're all gonna fucking die.'

ahem.

deadlock
#31 by "Andy"
2000-06-10 01:38:43
andy@planetcrap.com
<a href="http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/06/01/1821206&mode=thread">http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/06/01/1821206&mode=thread</a>

Nice of Slashdot to claim responsibility for a story that they got from here. Should we be angry or flattered?
#32 by "deadlock"
2000-06-10 01:41:54
deadlock@eircom.net
Just looking at the screenshots on the croteam website and I have to say that in a way, they do put me in mind of doom, for the simple reason that they aren't depicting anything alien or realistic, but rather the same sci-fi-horror scenes that Doom itself depicted. You know, the levels are straight out of alien, the baddies are completely Lovecraftian. Brilliant.

deadlock
#33 by "None-1a"
2000-06-10 01:43:30
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#30</b> "deadlock" wrote...
<QUOTE>in short, it was bound to happen. it is inevitable that sooner or later a programmer or programming house is going to come along that kicks id/carmack/epic's arse. </QUOTE>

I would say that about the seriouse engine just yet, sure it has a few features the others don't (seeing what protals are supposted to do in Pray is great, lens flares a little dumb with no glasses in an out door environment). I'd expect some of the id/epic/lith (IEL)stuff to be added to it at some point (and a few of the serious features added to iel engines as well). <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "Rantage"
2000-06-10 01:51:52
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#31</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/06/01/1821206&mode=thread

Nice of Slashdot to claim responsibility for a story that they got from here. Should we be angry or flattered? </QUOTE>

I vote for <I>relieved</I>: Slashdot didn't link to PC.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#35 by "deadlock"
2000-06-10 02:01:38
deadlock@eircom.net
None-1a:

Again, I haven't <b>actually</b> played the demo, but i wasn't exactly referring to it either: eventually, someone is going to come along and kick everyone's arses when it comes to engines. They might not actually produce an engine that is as good as, say, id's, but they may display more talent, relative to their experience than id, epic or whoever.

Croteam seem to be doing this. They have transcended their Amiga days (<b>big deal!</b> - no sarcasm: i never heard of them and i was mucho 'miga fan...) when they produced, how you say? shite? now, they've produced, on what must be little or no capital ( you have a computer game hit(??) <b>5</b> years ago - how long does that revenue last ??) a seriously funky game.

What i'm trying to get at is that Commander Keen was fucking shite. I don't care what you say, when PC bastards were salivating over the 4-bit (16 color) 'beauty' of commander keen, amiga users were enjoying games that used 5-bit (oooohh! 32 colors!!) and were actually good. ta fuck!

BUT!! (and there is a but!) id software transcended that crap, got a decent development PC and produced Wolfenstein 3D, thereby lifting themselves from the realms of third-rate platform makers to actual pioneers (at least for a short while).

Croteam have produced a (reputedly - and i trust you peeps) fine FPS at a time when the FPS is almost in danger of being sold by Microsoft as part of their operating system, which is a damn fine achievement in anyone's book.

Who knows where croteam will be in eight years?

Riding high, one hopes...

deadlock

arse.
#36 by "Andy"
2000-06-10 02:02:46
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#34</b>, Rantage:
<QUOTE>
I vote for relieved: Slashdot didn't link to PC.
</QUOTE>
They linked us the day before, then after Scott Miller responded to what we'd said here the guy at Slashdot claimed he was actually responding to him.

BTW:
<QUOTE>
If nothing else, some third party will take a look at the engine's features and develop a game more suitable to Andy's tastes. :)
</QUOTE>
What makes you think Serious Sam isn't to my taste?
#37 by "flamethrower"
2000-06-10 02:04:29
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
<b>#12</b> "|SnappY|" wrote...
<QUOTE>Could it be due to the FIRST exposure EVER it got via OMM? ;) ;) nudge nudge. </QUOTE>

He put a <i>nudge nudge</i> in after talking about OMM. Is that tautology?
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#38 by "|SnappY|"
2000-06-10 02:18:23
snap@nwlink.com
<b>#37</b> "flamethrower" wrote...
<QUOTE>#12 "|SnappY|" wrote...

Could it be due to the FIRST exposure EVER it got via OMM? ;) ;) nudge nudge.


He put a nudge nudge in after talking about OMM. Is that tautology? </QUOTE>

How do you know i'm not a she, like HappyCow?

heh heh... kidding. I have nuts.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#39 by "Geoffrois"
2000-06-10 02:24:19
HappyCow is a she? I missed that.
#40 by "Naked Exposition"
2000-06-10 02:26:05
samuelbass3000@hotmail.com
Well, I'd imagine what'll happen IF the game is picked up for US release (and here's hoping it is, as it's a hell of a lot of fun).


Publisher -Hey Croteam, we like your game, but we'd like to change the name and packaging.

Croteam - but what about our artistic integrity?

Publisher - Here's the equivalent of the Croatian gross national product in a handy US dollar form.

Croteam - Michael Jackson's Chaos In Egypt it is then...
#41 by "Jeff"
2000-06-10 02:36:15
jeffmill@bellsouth.net
So what kind of specs do you need for Serious Sam? I've got an AMD 333 with a Voodoo 2 card (16 mg).
Since I'm on dial-up, I don't want to waste 16 hours downloading something that I can't even play. :-)
#42 by "None-1a"
2000-06-10 02:41:15
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
Jeff, I'd say go for it, I've got a P233, 64Megs, and a Voodoo2. and While it doesn't run great it's playable most of the time (when it's not just look down), since you've got me out classed a little it might perform a little better.

The recomended specs are a PIII 500+, 128megs of ram, and a 32 meg video card, so I may just be luck that it ran at all.  <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#43 by "flamethrower"
2000-06-10 02:43:35
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
Well, they're my specs, all I need now is the courage to download it. Especially since I got rid of my spyware FTP programs. :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#44 by "Diseased"
2000-06-10 02:48:20
diseasedanimal@yahoo.com
More specs than that.  It runs decently on my P3-700/TNT 2 but I have heard it sucks up da cycles.  The price one pays for graphics and gameplay like that I guess.
#45 by "Karl Palutke"
2000-06-10 04:48:08
palutkek@asme.org
<quote>HappyCow is a she? I missed that. </quote>

Of course.  Otherwise, it would be 'Happy Bull'
#46 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-06-10 05:07:18
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>I don't know if it's a double standard so much as it is just being 'done right', without a ton of marketing hype and marketed egos to go along with it all. </quote>
So you're saying there IS a double standard, that you judge a game differently if there's been marketing hype and egos and such.
#47 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-06-10 05:11:55
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>Seems even the big game sites missed this one because they based it on the packaging. </quote>
Um, no. Everyone missed it because the developer didn't let anyone know of its existence until the test was released.

And frankly, without anything playable, I would have been wary of a completely unknown developer. Do you realize how many people want sites to check out their "hot new games" and write articles on screenshots and promises?
#48 by "Sastan"
2000-06-10 05:37:13
sastan@tpg.com.au
Well, it does make sense. Marketing it with a cartoonesque flavour is more likely to appeal tp parents picking up a gift for their kids, or anyone picking up a present for kids, if placed next to games like UT/Q3/SOF.

If I hadn't read this on PC, I could have bought this sometime in the future to give it to one of my younger cousins. Croteam's is more likely to make more sales this way. After all, the hardcore gaming community does only constitute a minority of sales, and word-of-mouth is going to sell it if it's a good game.

Now, time to go read that /. article.
#49 by "crash"
2000-06-10 05:38:36
crash@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Steve Bauman (#14):
<i>OK, the game IS fun and all, and I think the kamikaze guys are particularly brilliant, but it's a "throwback" game, and people have been criticizing other games for not being advanced... seems there's a slight double standard.</i>

yep it's a throwback game, no doubt about it. know why it works? because that's all it tries to be. deep story? rpg elements? sidekicks? the next big thing in gaming's evolution? fuck that--Croteam is making a game that's fun above all else, and it shows. especially when you play it. it's... unpretentious, i guess you could say. it doesn't seem to take itself too seriously, or try to be too much. i mean, it keeps a numerical score like an arcade game. :)

is there a double standard? perhaps. maybe there's a lesson to be learned here.

Slate (#18):
<i>Seems even the big game sites missed this one because they based it on the packaging.</i>

i missed it because, frankly, it hadn't registered yet. i mean, i heard about it, and i read about ppl liking it, but i have to admit it didn't occur to me to d/l the thing and try it until today. (well, that and the fact that i just don't have as much time to actually play as i'd like...) now that i know about it, though, believe me--i'll be telling and showing as many ppl as i can. :) can't wait for the multiplayer...
#50 by "G-Man"
2000-06-10 06:15:22
jonmars@shiftlock.org http://www.shiftlock.org
<b>#47</b> "Steve Bauman" wrote...
<QUOTE>Seems even the big game sites missed this one because they based it on the packaging.

Um, no. Everyone missed it because the developer didn't let anyone know of its existence until the test was released.</QUOTE>
Well that's bull. I'd been following Sam for a while now, ever since they released the first MPEG's of game footage a few months back. A shame you didn't catch it on Blues et al.

Also Andy and the gang: they don't have a publisher, hell they aren't even getting paid. So there isn't any packaging or marketing to speak of since technically it isn't even a product yet. Regardless it's Croatian for god's sake.. I'm still amazed Mortyr found it's way to the states.

 - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
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