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Bust A Move in UT 2003
July 18th 2002, 17:10 CEST by m0nty

Cross-pollination of ideas from different gaming genres is nothing new, so it is not surprising that the "special move" feature made famous by fighting games like Street Fighter and Tekken has made its way into the FPS, as with this advertised feature from Unreal Tournament 2003, scheduled for full release this northern summer with the demo out by August:

* Power up on adrenaline to unleash Special Moves - a completely novel concept in first-person shooters that adds a new dimension of unpredictability and skill to a favorite genre, and to each battle you dare to wage!

Apart from the fact that Jedi Knight 2 can probably claim to have been first with its acrobatic maneuvers, what will the introduction of special moves have on FPS gameplay?

The "special move" should not be confused with the "secondary fire", such as in the original UT weaponry. Details have trickled out from developer Digital Extremes and engine maker Epic Games about what the special moves will actually be, listed in the Unofficial FAQ. Of course, PlanetCrap's Warren Marshall and Nova_Z are in the thick of it and can't tell us much at this stage, but we do know there will be a "bioenergy meter", which will serve as a power bar for the moves, which is boosted by earning kills. This preview sums up what is known thus far:

Another innovation for the title is the creation of special moves. There will be two types: 'natural' special moves, such as a double left or right for a dodge, or a super-jump that lets you increase the height of your jump by leaping again at the apex of a leap; and 'pickup' special moves, although it's undecided if these might be earned rather than found. "You might earn the special when you're on a rampage and you get the guy saying "unstoppable!" - at that point, maybe you might get a beserker bonus, where you multiply your damage by a certain factor," Wilbur said. The moves will be available to everyone, however, not keyed to particular races - the skins in-game are just that, skins.

One potential problem is how to stop players becoming frustrated with gameplay being reduced to one dimension, with lamers and campers trying for nothing else other than to get the special moves because they don't require as much skill. Just as most Soldier of Fortune 2 servers have the SPG-7 rocket launchers removed from the options because of the annoying existence of rocket whores, it may be that UT2k3 servers might be divided into pure servers and those with SMs turned off. Also, many special moves sound like they would favour those in firefights, whereas snipers would presumably not get the same privilege - this might be seen as a good thing in some quarters, of course.

Of course, FPSs have had power-ups ever since the Quad Damage, but the special move brings emotional baggage of fighting games on consoles using gamepads. Given that UT was ported to both the PS2 and Dreamcast, and there will be a sister version of UT2k3 for Xbox called Unreal Championship, one can't help but suspect the special move feature was included with half an eye cocked at all the teen kiddies weaned on button-mashing fests like Mortal Kombat. Hardcore FPS gamers will hope the moves will all be earned through skill, and not dexterity on a gamepad.

So, will you be breaking out da smoove moves, or will you pooh-pooh it as a n00b tactic? Will SMs go down in infamy with such hated moves as the bunnyhop? Will FPSs become the domain of Tekken alumni, trying to unlock combos to get that FRAWRESS VICTORRRY? Can we please not let this thread degenerate into Epic-versus-id flamage?
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#1 by Snord
2002-07-18 17:12:04
Will probably be interesting, but special moves are only fun if they require a rediculous amount of button mashing to do though. Oh yeah, first.
#2 by Hugin
2002-07-18 17:15:28
lmccain@nber.org
The idea of special moves in an FPS game don't...excite me.  I dunno.  The whole idea doesn't do much for me.  I don't hate it...
#3 by LPMiller
2002-07-18 17:16:13
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
As long as at some point, I can extend the Middle Finger of Justice in game, I'm happy.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#4 by Kinetech
2002-07-18 17:25:11
I did play a Max Payne mod that incorporated Kung Fu moves into the shootdodge feature. It was fun, and added an interesting element to the game.

As long as I don't have to get the POWER UP to WIN TEH GAEM, I'm ok with this.

Look upon me! I'll show you the life of the mind!
#5 by q-bert
2002-07-18 17:25:31
q_bert_2000_2000@yahoo.com
Special moves in FPS games are GREEEEAAAAAATTTTT.  Just like frosted flakes (but Frosted Flakes are better)

Hey!  That's it!  We're broken up!  And you know what that means don't you?  No more anal sex for you!
#6 by Matt Perkins
2002-07-18 17:29:03
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
We all know Id makes a superior FPS when compared to the shlock Epic releases!  (this not an actual opinion, I just like bother monty)



As for this idea of moves in a FPS...I'd love to see them if they aren't setup like Tekken.  Meaning, I don't want to have put in a half circle (really hard with the keyboard) + P + K + -> to pull of moves.  If they are more along the lines of they happen in play...for instance, if I'm wielding a sword type weapon and I swing at someone while pulling right and down, maybe I should do special move.  That may be a bit simplisitic, but I don't want much more than that.  FPSs aren't fighting games for a reason...they aren't the same thing.

I'm the returning fucking champion.
#7 by q-bert
2002-07-18 17:32:25
q_bert_2000_2000@yahoo.com
If you dont like frosted flakes then what the hell is wrong with you?  Get out of my country (unless you live outside the U.S., then just stay where you are.)  They're GRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEAAAAAAATTT

Hey!  That's it!  We're broken up!  And you know what that means don't you?  No more anal sex for you!
#8 by "Sgt Hulka"
2002-07-18 17:38:52
sgt_hulka@yahoo.com http://www.hulka.com
Well, I too have been able to see UT 2003 for a while now in playable action.  The engine is pretty.  I don't really have anything else to say about the game itself.  I played a little bit of it, but it doesn't hold my interest.  In fact, I wouldn't even know about the special moves had you not told me m0nty, but even knowing there are special cool-ass moves, I still don't want to play it.  It's pretty much the same game I played three years ago with shiny-new graphics, a dumbed down interface, and now "Special-Moves"..

For the record, if I should happen to play UT2003, I hereby dub my special move the "Flippy Loop".  

What's Hulka's special move all about?  You'll just have to wait and find out.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone licensed the engine for a quarter of a million dollars and made a fighting game out of it though.
#9 by Greg
2002-07-18 17:43:41
Matt Perkins:

I'd figure it'd be even more simplistic than that. There should just be a button press, and you execute the special move. Since people don't play FPSs with joysticks, it is a bit more difficult to throw in Street Fighter 2 move executions. Are they going to try using gestures to determine if a move should be executed? Would be kind of silly watching users spin their mouse around while trying to perform the action.

Who is driving car?! Oh my god, bear is driving car! How can that be?
#10 by Your Friend
2002-07-18 17:44:03
I hope nobody spent too much time working on the special moves, since 99% of all servers are just going to shut them off as the community proclaims that special moves are for "c4mp0ring f4gg0rts!! with n0 skillZz".
#11 by Caryn
2002-07-18 17:49:51
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
I don't think the special moves would require console-like, multi-button pushing. Although the shootdodge in Max Payne might not be as fancy as the special moves that will be in UT2003, it still only required one extra key to execute -- the direction you were traveling in the at the time determined whether you lept to the side or forward. Special moves could probably be done in a similar way in UT2003.

"I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you quantum physics!"
#12 by wash
2002-07-18 17:52:04
I agree with #10, as cool as it the special moves sound, everyone's gonna be called a "insert special power name whore" at every turn.

I loved UT and a can't wait for the freakin' demo.
#13 by Hugin
2002-07-18 17:52:40
lmccain@nber.org
The thing is, people are largely annoyed by merely jumping around right now.  Isn't this going to be even worse?
#14 by q-bert
2002-07-18 17:54:21
q_bert_2000_2000@yahoo.com
Everyone go to the submission bin and vote.

Hey!  That's it!  We're broken up!  And you know what that means don't you?  No more anal sex for you!
#15 by Greg
2002-07-18 17:56:48
Hugin,

It all comes down to periodicity. UT translocator hopping is as bad as bunny-hopping. Though only because there is no delay period between reappearing, and using the translocator again. I've heard this has been changed in UT2k3, so it'll be interesting to see how they modified it.

I suspect that these special moves won't be able to be used constantly, so they shouldn't fall under the bunny-hopping category.

Who is driving car?! Oh my god, bear is driving car! How can that be?
#16 by jjohnsen
2002-07-18 18:19:30
http://www.johnsenclan.com
q-bert, you spelled pebbles wrong in your topic submission, so I voted an emphatic NO

The incredible insights you've given on many topics have brightened all of our lives and touched us in ways we can never fully describe.
#17 by Charles
2002-07-18 18:54:12
www.bluh.org
Special moves will be as prevalent in online games were as the relics were in UT.  Like the article said, they aren't so much as fighting game special moves, but just key combos that will trigger powerups.  I certainly don't think they hurt the game.  I think they are a nice touch overall.

...is the new SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP.
#18 by Darkseid-D
2002-07-18 19:06:08
rogerboal@hotmail.com
Im sorry ?

this is different to say .. the diving move in `The Opera` or the kicking move in Action Quake (punting people off rooftops), or Half lifes duck jump or even longjump module? Or even perhaps, how is it different to the `Runes` from Qctf/Loki`s? Or bunny hopping in Counter strike ? Wall sliding ? Hearing `denied` when someone snags the quad out from you just as you grab it in q3?

Its hardly anything groundbreakingly new, just a more `blantant`trick move, now if it were things like `Longevity` where if you`d survived for maybe a minute on low health it raised your max health to 125 for that `life` (provided you could heal up that far), `efficiency bonus` where along with X number of kills and the resultant `unstoppable` `inhuman` `godlike` you got a small bonus to health and life, `sympathy` bonus where it boosts the `lowest` on the scoretable players *after X minutes* up to  +30 extra damage and health (or somesuch) to give them a fighting chance, `style bonus` scoring a kill with every weapon in the level,  `kamikaze` bonus if you have a tendancy of damaging yourself taking down the enemy then your corpse explodes when you die, `pack rat bonus` if you have a habit of collecting as much ammo as you can items `glow` for you or give you a sllightly higher pickup rate next time you die, `lady luck` bonus randomly picks a player in the game to become invunerable for 30 seconds or have , `achilles bonus` if you constantly frag someone with say the flak cannon you become more vunerable to people using it on you whilst other weapons are marginally less damaging to you, `headhunters` bonus if you make X number of headshot kills in a row the next frags you get are worth double points - a normal kill during that run would break the counter and start it again, `Terminator Bonus` for players who keep fragging and fragging and fragging and dont back off to heal up and rearm etc, when their health drops to a certain point, it refills up to 100health/armour (stop people whoring one weapon), (gag - `Evil Elvis bonus` players who constantly jump around like they have fleas biting their behinds are automatically reskinned into a gold lame` suit with big hair and make ahuhuhhh noises when hit)

Ds

Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
#19 by Matt Perkins
2002-07-18 19:07:53
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Having not played UT2k3, I can't say for sure, but I kinda like the sound of pressing the special button key and a direction and you do a special move...  very simplistic, but also useful (hopefully) and fun.  I hope UT2k3 does implement them in a good way.  I think special moves have a place in any game, but they shouldn't be the point of the game!  Unless it's a fighting game, of course.  A good example would be Madden 2002 running the ball vs Sega's 2002 version...  In Madden, any special moves you wanted, you had to do them, in Sega, it did them for you, depending upon the running backs skills...  (though, only at the first level of difficulty in Sega's game so it wasn't a GREAT implementation).

As for the rest of the community turning the specials on or off...  bleh, Butter (or whatever server we're playing on) will do it the way we all like.

I'm the returning fucking champion.
#20 by Charles
2002-07-18 19:09:40
www.bluh.org
The special moves have little to do with moving.  Except for the double jump and dodge.  People sooooo have the wrong impression about what they are.

...is the new SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP.
#21 by Your Friend
2002-07-18 19:12:52
Ds,

   While there might be some merit to some of your suggestions (though I don't see any of them as being very original, which is funny considering the point of your post is that UT2K3's SMs aren't original), why would you give out special advantages based on the fact that the player is already kicking ass (which is what a lot of your suggestions boil down to)?
#22 by Your Friend
2002-07-18 19:32:19
q-bert's submission-bin topic is more interesting than the vast majority of the topics currently published on the front page, and I'm only half-joking.  In fact probably less than half.
#23 by Matthew Gallant
2002-07-18 19:36:58
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
Weird how you usually type like three sentences and put three or four carriage returns in between each, then write something which amounts to a long bulleted list and put it all in one paragraph.

Weird I say.

Current market value of the Max Payne IP according to a comparison of the market capitalization of Take Two pre- and post- sale: approx. -$254,000,000.
#24 by WeeMadArthur
2002-07-18 19:48:19
smarteyman@interia.pl
`achilles bonus` if you constantly frag someone with say the flak cannon you become more vunerable to people using it on you


I don't recall hearing or reading anything about Achilles attacking his enemies with his foot.

"You ate my chicken ass, now I want to eat your ass!"
#25 by Your Friend
2002-07-18 19:56:07
Achilles was the original "I'm gonna bust mah foot up yo' ass" pimp.
#26 by Sgt Hulka
2002-07-18 20:28:10
Look at the tits on this

DOOMED! - Videogames Turn Deadly.
#27 by Darkseid-D
2002-07-18 20:30:07
rogerboal@hotmail.com
I didnt claim originality, and merely tried to outline how they could be done. Sure some of the `bonuses` are for ass kicking, but others have a bite in the tail, like the achilles bonus, sure you can school everyone with with the flak but suddenly that flak cannon is very very dangerous to you and that would encourage you to spread your weapon use around more (bit like Borg adaptive shielding). Sympathy would boost the lowest on the score chart and give them a chance for `level pegging`, the longevity bonus wouldnt necessarily be `scored` by the person with the most frags, but by the person who`s hurt and stays alive for a while,. Sure a good player could try to score that bonus by getting hurt and deliberately playing the odds, but whilst aiming for that bonus they are -very- vunerable (thinking like single digit health levels, oh and add in a no armour requirement), even a glancing hit is fatal.

They arent startlingly new ideas, never claimed them to be, but like storys there are only so many `roots` and paths to follow.

Ds

Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
#28 by Bailey
2002-07-18 20:55:02
Eh. Special moves.

For me, the Unreal engine has only ever meant interesting mods or licenses. The Unreal games themselves never garnered my interest... sooo, I'll just wait for the inevitable topic change now.

BileŽ. Makes a body bitter.
#29 by "Anonymous"
2002-07-18 21:10:45
Whoo, I knew the character design was in the style of some generic n64 fighting game but now the gameplay will match!

RANDOM IDIOT STEROTYPE BATTLE. WILL YOU BE BIG HAT GUY OR EGYPTLADY?
#30 by "schnee"
2002-07-18 23:15:51
schnee@speakesy.net
I thought these moves were put in to attract the 'hardcore Pro Mode bored with Quake' crowd who wants depth. The major critique of Q3A was how movement was so nerfed... no Q1 air control, no Q2 double-jumps, lackluster strafe-jumping... it made it so there was only so much you could learn or do.

Now, if you put the time in, you can have more options at your disposal, and it's due to a planned feature, not a physics engine bug. The 'mad l337 d00ds' can pull a John Woo on the newbs, so this gives style points and a reward for having more coordination. It's also a logical extension of the dodge in UT.

Isn't this a like the role-playing elements in Warcraft 3? Taking a genre that's getting stale, and injecting a feature of another genre in to see if you can make things more interesting?
#31 by Duality
2002-07-18 23:19:24
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
I love you hulka.

-Jon
#32 by chris
2002-07-18 23:21:11
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.cerebraldebris.com
People keep talking about these power-ups like they're movement based, but it sounds to me that they're more like being able to scream "HA DO KEN!" and shoot a fireball once in awhile, or whatever.

-chris
#33 by jjohnsen
2002-07-18 23:46:48
http://www.johnsenclan.com
IS there a link to someone that actually know what these special moves are?  Everyone here seems to be as confused as I am.

The incredible insights you've given on many topics have brightened all of our lives and touched us in ways we can never fully describe.
#34 by jafd
2002-07-19 00:18:34
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
Will it be 'impossible' to set up a bind/alias to execute these key combinations with... just one key?

If so, great, only the slightly-above-average haxx0rs will be able to use them reliably and effectively. If not, then... well, I suppose that walking and aiming simultaneously is a "combo" move, too.

Since I'm one of the few people on the planet who haven't d/l'ed ut2k, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, so I'll just be moving on.

#35 by deadlock
2002-07-19 00:30:46
http://www.deadlocked.org/
It's like everything in life: if these 'special moves' are implemented well, they should be fun. If implemented badly, they'll just be turned off on most servers. Personally, I like the idea, it'll be interesting to see what the implementation is like.

When they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out ? Will you defend me ?
Freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
Trampled underfoot by the rise of the right
#36 by Your Friend
2002-07-19 00:46:18
Even if they are imlemented well and are 'fun' they will likely still get shut off on most servers. FPS gamers don't like fun, they like instagib weapons.  Fun is for camping newbie llamas.
#37 by Shadarr
2002-07-19 00:57:20
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I've got a strategic commander, into which you can program any key combination you want.  So, even if it isn't supported by the game, you can bet some people will be doing it.
#38 by Your Friend
2002-07-19 01:02:41
Has there been any verification that a key combo is even involved?  I'd be really surprised if that were the case.  I'm guessing you get the special move based on gathering something or performing a simple task and then you press the "special move" bound button to execute the move.  FPSes ain't fightin' games, nobody wants to do complicated key combos in them.  Epic's fine employees, including Warren, are smart enough to know this.
#39 by Shadarr
2002-07-19 01:09:43
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Ooh, you mean like collecting potions!  "Don't shoot the potion".  FPS's are already just big quests for keys, so I guess that would be the next logical step.
#40 by Warren Marshall
2002-07-19 01:20:09
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
*clears throat*

The special moves are based on adrenaline.  You pick up adrenaline from the pickups in the map or from killing opponents (double kills, multi kills, etc).  When you get '100' adrenaline points, you can activate a combo (aka special move).  The combos can give you speed, extra damage, invisibility, etc.  They expire after a short time and then you have to gather more adrenaline to do another one.  You can choose which one you want with a combination of tapping your movement keys (that's how it is right now ... I doubt it will change, but you never know) ... combos are 4 keystrokes long and not hard to do at all.

The double jumping is always available and is very useful in firefights.  You jump and then at the top of the jump, hit it again.  Good for reaching higher spots in the level as well as avoiding rockets and such.

"It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
#41 by Your Friend
2002-07-19 01:28:08
I like double jumping.  Especially in platform games.

Dunno how well that's going to go over with your average FPS gamer though, who is already bitching about the amount of jumping in Quake2/Quake3/SOF2/HL/whatever.
#42 by jjohnsen
2002-07-19 01:29:08
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Here's the problem.  It took us 40 posts to find someone who could explain it.  Now that its explained, I don't see the big deal.

The incredible insights you've given on many topics have brightened all of our lives and touched us in ways we can never fully describe.
#43 by Warren Marshall
2002-07-19 01:31:55
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
jjohnsen
Here's the problem.  It took us 40 posts to find someone who could explain it.  Now that its explained, I don't see the big deal.

That's how it always is.  Once the veil of speculation and misinformation is lifted, the topic ceases to be interesting.

"It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
#44 by Shadarr
2002-07-19 01:32:32
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Way to go Warren.
#45 by Ergo
2002-07-19 01:33:03
Damn you, Warren Marshall, for destroying our irrelevant musings! Damn you to Hell!!!

"Brian, there's a message in my Alpha Bits! It says 'OOOOOOO'!"
"Peter, those are Cheerios."
-The Family Guy
#46 by jafd
2002-07-19 01:33:23
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000033180
Thanks for the info, Warren, I hope you got clearance for telling us that. :)

It sounds great. Except for the "keystrokes are four keys long" bullshit. Uhm, hello? It's a trivial matter for anyone with some basic knowledge and/or custom input hardware to spoof keystroke combos, why not let everyone who plays have the same access?

It might sound "cool" to "require" people to press a bunch of buttons at once, but in practice, it's stupid.

What you'll end up with are a bunch of nubis getting |onzored by experienced players who pull the stuff off like it's nuttin' (which, for them, it will be, hello macros), and they'll get frustrated, and not want to play.

Sure, you'll have the few people who actually get inspired to learn by getting their head handed to them in a hat by some cool technique, but that'll be the minority.

Being that there is effectively zero competition in the online deathmatch area against UT2k, I guess it doesn't matter.

#47 by hangedmanAG
2002-07-19 01:34:11
www.livejournal.com/users/hangedman_ag/
#40 by Warren Marshall
Thank god you finally showed up.  Took ya' long enough.

#41 by Your Friend
Agreed.  There is far too much jumping in FPS's.  It's ridiculous.

there is no emoticon for my spite
#48 by Your Friend
2002-07-19 01:36:09
People too dumb to adapt to macro usage are already probably cannon-fodder keyboard kowboys.  

So it doesn't really alter things much.

IMO.
#49 by Matt Perkins
2002-07-19 01:36:52
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I don't know about the theory of rewarding someone who is already whooping ass...  or the 4 key strokes...


But I like the double jumping, that could really add to the fire fights.

I'm the returning fucking champion.
#50 by bago
2002-07-19 01:38:36
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Have any of you played twisted metal 2 or twisted metal black?

Same concept.

It's neat.

Go epic.

iamelectro
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