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Reminiscing for the Future.
July 8th 2002, 08:15 CEST by Nova Z

In another thread, Phayyde said:  
When a pda can clip to my glasses, float a HUD, watch my cornea and hear my tooth clicks, then there may be a compelling reason to spend gaming time on one.  Until they free up my hands and provide a large pleasant viewing area, pdas are just too fiddly for games


And it got me thinking to all the ideas for the future that I've had for years... and I wonder where they are.  Books from Neal Stephenson, William Gibson, and others, have all given us our visions of the future.  So this topic is about listing what you want, what's arrived, things that have potential future applications.  Go crazy.  

Personally, I really want some sort of HUD glasses that project the images directly on to your retina.  That could be cool.  I also want full voice recognition and dictation.  And some sort of interface that doesn't necessarily require your hands.  Though perhaps, and interface that actually uses your hands specifically could be cool.  

I know there has been work done to produce tiny motion sensors that can be placed on your fingers to use as input devices, for virtual keyboards, etc.  Lots of potential.  However, the biggest thing I want is definitely some sort of AI helper bot on my computer, that communicates with, and understands, voice.  

Of course, some of this is wishful thinking, but that's what this topic is for.
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#1 by Max
2002-07-08 08:18:09
http://massivebraincase.org/
Wow.  I just came into the Bin to vote and clicked this and I find that there's no voting buttons.  I may have actually voted it up, too.

I want direct image projection without any glasses, and a wireless interface right in my brain to access everything, and thought-controlled movement in the game.  I just want to think about playing DNF and have it begin, right in my brain.  Yeah.

Hey, did you know you have stretch marks in the corners of your mouth? Odd...
#2 by Charles
2002-07-08 08:23:25
www.bluh.org
I think I lied.  What I want is a direct connection between my brain and games.  So that the games ARE real, as far as I can tell.  The character's body is my body, and I see everything for real.  

That would rule.

...is the new SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP.
#3 by Warren Marshall
2002-07-08 08:37:17
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Not sure I want something hooked directly into my brain, projecting the game "for real".  That sounds, honestly, like it would get old pretty fast.  After the first couple of games people will start to bemoan the lack of innovation and how every single game does the "project into your brain" thing.  Can't they come up with any original ideas?!

"It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
#4 by Matthew Gallant
2002-07-08 08:40:40
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
Well, the first hurdle to overcome is to somehow create a processor capable of running a 4-bit color Galaga game during a level loading screen without doubling the loading time. Maybe one that doesn't use context switches. I think we can maybe accomplish this before 2010.

Current market value of the Max Payne IP according to a comparison of the market capitalization of Take Two pre- and post- sale: approx. -$267,000,000.
#5 by EricFate
2002-07-08 08:41:55
Boobies would sell five times the amount of product they do now.

Not that I'm complaining.
#6 by Charles
2002-07-08 08:42:51
www.bluh.org
This topic sucks.  It needs a hijack.

...is the new SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP.
#7 by "Dimitri Yugoslav"
2002-07-08 08:50:23
and here it comes...

what's "(sic)" stand for whan used in writing ?

hmmm ??
#8 by Matthew Gallant
2002-07-08 08:52:07
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
It means the error in grammar/spelling/diction of what is being quoted is left as is.

Current market value of the Max Payne IP according to a comparison of the market capitalization of Take Two pre- and post- sale: approx. -$267,000,000.
#9 by Ashiran
2002-07-08 10:06:26
I see terrorist attacks in the future. And not one anyone is expecting. :/

"Good writers are harder to find than nice breasts" - morn
#10 by crash
2002-07-08 10:06:40
i want a holodeck.

and a replicator that can create food.

and enough money to power it all until i die.

that is all.

Whoops, sorry, was my common sense showing again? -HoseWater
#11 by "Dimitri Yugoslav"
2002-07-08 10:21:20
"It means the error in grammar/spelling/diction of what is being quoted is left as is."

ok but does it stand for anything then ?

ie: i like barbara streisand (sp?)

to me the above sentance says that the author is unsure of some of the SPelling in it most likely the last name.

sp=spelling
sic= ???????
#12 by deadlock
2002-07-08 10:36:07
http://www.deadlocked.org/
It's a latin word used to indicate that 'a quoted passage, especially one containing an error or unconventional spelling, has been retained in its original form or written intentionally' (from dictionary.com). 'sp ?' is, as you say, short for 'spelling ?', but whereas 'sic' has been in use for years and in a variety of media, 'sp ?' has really only ever been used on computer bulletin boards and the internet and wouldn't really be acceptable in most other media. Imagine the editor of a newspaper running articles with copy such as 'George Bush Senyor (sp ?)'. Ha ha.

When they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out ? Will you defend me ?
Freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
Trampled underfoot by the rise of the right
#13 by Cliff
2002-07-08 11:56:11
cps46@rcn.com
Warren:
Not sure I want something hooked directly into my brain, projecting the game "for real".  That sounds, honestly, like it would get old pretty fast.  After the first couple of games people will start to bemoan the lack of innovation and how every single game does the "project into your brain" thing.

Exactly.  Then, following a backlash against flashy story and effects (Dogme 2005), we develop the focused-amnesia drugs that let us forget we're even playing the game.

Some experts estimate we're currently 42 iterations into this.

I want to get close enough to Bush to find out whether his cochlear implant is Bluetooth or 802.11b.  And then hack it.
#14 by m0nty
2002-07-08 11:56:40
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
PlanetCrap, for all your Latin lexicographical needs.
#15 by Cliff
2002-07-08 12:36:44
cps46@rcn.com
Microvision seems the most plausible of the companies developing virtual retinal displays: they appear to have actual products available.  God knows they've got the (iPaq-compatible) cyborg look down.

Besides sensor-based virtual keyboards, we're now seeing even lighter products.

There's been lots of progress in recent years in direct brain interfaces (input to the brain) and brain-computer interfaces (output from the brain), with some products commercially available (scroll down), although a bit on the pricey side.  Warren could afford one, of course; they've even got a Windows software bundle.

But the really freaky stuff remains nanotech.  Yes, it's been overhyped by the media, and is still a ways off, but once it does take off watch out.

I want to get close enough to Bush to find out whether his cochlear implant is Bluetooth or 802.11b.  And then hack it.
#16 by Ashiran
2002-07-08 12:45:57
In 50 years the world will run out of natural resources anyway.

Chaos ensues!

"Good writers are harder to find than nice breasts" - morn
#17 by "Anonymous"
2002-07-08 13:37:30
Meh to all of the above.

Upload ME, damnit - cap my synapses with nanites that can hijack signals sent/received, and synthesize my brain at the molecular level one neuron at a time (simultaneously hijacking each corresponding physical neuron) until the entire lump of meat's been transferred into the machine without me even noticing.  Switch the inputs off of the physical eyes/ears/etc and on to virtual ones being fed sense data from Quake 4.

Et voila!  Relative immortality, REALLY immersive gaming - virtual universes that bring realization of the ultimate, perfect canvases to which gaming has always aspired.  Go on, name an art form you haven't seen in a game - music? Paintings? Novels?  Martial? Sculpture?

All art forms, all existences, are a subset of gaming, because games are incomplete implementations of virtual universes.

Screw head-mounted displays:  # mount /me

--Ryv
#18 by Bezzy
2002-07-08 13:37:42
painberry@hotmail.com http://www.antifactory.org
They have monkies that can play videogames via their brains, now, SO WHY CAN'T WE? WE ARE SUPERIOR TO MONKIES IN MANY WAYS!

Anyhow - it's not so my the introduction of this brain->game technology that I'm worried about. My main worry is that even with this interface, games will still have to have a limited player vocabulary. What I guess I'm really waiting for is not only brain control, but also a game, or 'fake real world' where our almost infinite vocabulary of body movement is kept intact, thereby affording us TRUE realism, rather than the limited realism of "realistic" games.

Then you could do just about anything for a day... be someone else in a different profession, whatever it may be, or travel back in time, and just live that life.

But this full vocabulary will do more for simulation than it will for games, unless we have awesome epic mond vs. mind battles, where the brain can control a complex machine or organism, without wondering where the fucking "turn turret" fucking keyboard key is. We'd still have cut down vocabularies in games, but they would atleast be a LOT more varied than the 10 button, 3 axis interface we have nowadays. Imagine controlling a face hugger for a day, completely explicitly, so that every muscle in its body is responding to your will, and all this with a seamless, totally intuitive interface.

The best way to create an award winning game is to write the acceptance speech first.
#19 by Bezzy
2002-07-08 13:39:10
painberry@hotmail.com http://www.antifactory.org

Go on, name an art form you haven't seen in a game - music? Paintings? Novels?  Martial? Sculpture?

Games?

The best way to create an award winning game is to write the acceptance speech first.
#20 by Duality
2002-07-08 13:40:29
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
Though the interface seemed clunky, the pseudo-physical manipulation of a GUI like that shown in Minority Report wouldn't surprise me if it became real.  The way we've been able to manipulate our windows and such would be made that much easier with even more simple hand gestures, instead of clicking and dragging a mouse.  Couple that with the hope of widespread touch screens, and this could be a near future way of controlling your computer for practical application.

Though then they'd have to come up with something to keep us gamers happy ... pseudo-manipulation of rocket launchers and grenade launchers or something.

Or grappling hooks.  I like grappling hooks.

-Jon
#21 by Ryvar
2002-07-08 13:42:10
sonnej@rpi.edu
#19 said:
Games?


PIG in System Shock 2 had plenty of games, remember?

meta my ass,
--Ryv
#22 by Duality
2002-07-08 13:42:31
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
At first I thought the idea of jacking my brain into a computer, but with the current crop of skript kiddies, spammers, and spyware ... I'm not sure I like the idea!

-Jon
#23 by haplo
2002-07-08 13:47:43
I want to be able to get cybernetic implants and drive vehicles with holographic displays hooked into my brain like in Shadowrun ohh yeah.


Anyone remember the commercial a few years ago with a dude sitting on a bench somewhere in europr surrounded by a flock of pidgeons?  He's on one of those eyeglass mounted display dealios screaming all sorts of things and the birds are reacting?  Then he gets a phone call on his face hehehe

anyways...I liked that spot...someday something like that will be mine, oh yes, it will be mine.

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building
#24 by Bezzy
2002-07-08 13:47:47
painberry@hotmail.com http://www.antifactory.org
Not that games aren't art, but I don't believe that the vast majority have even tried to be art.

The art of games lies within the mechanics, and not with the superflous artforms thrown ontop of the game to hide its own flaws. That sort of art can stand alone. And game mechanics as art can also stand alone from theme and plot and visual art. But they won't sell.

All art forms, all existences, are a subset of gaming, because games are incomplete implementations of virtual universes.

That's assuming that every game designer is aiming for an accurate description of the real world, which is blatantly untrue. Chess is NOT aiming to be an accurate model of warefare. The idea of war in it is nothing but a metaphor - one that breaks very easily under scrutiny. The miniature universes that designers create are complete by definition: if they exist, and they work, then they are complete in of themselves. Hell, they don't always have to work, since a complex enough logical system will give rise to paradox.

The best way to create an award winning game is to write the acceptance speech first.
#25 by Bezzy
2002-07-08 13:56:28
painberry@hotmail.com http://www.antifactory.org
That doesn't mean that games with great plots can't be considered art, but if the mechanics aren't used to express ideas, then the art doesn't really need the game in the first place, and can be considered art without calling it game-art.

The best way to create an award winning game is to write the acceptance speech first.
#26 by Ryvar
2002-07-08 14:09:42
sonnej@rpi.edu
#24 said:
Not that games aren't art, but I don't believe that the vast majority have even tried to be art.

Thief?  Planescape?  Possibly Deus Ex?  Any of these, Planescape in particular, could be reasonably argued to be art.

The art of games lies within the mechanics, and not with the superflous artforms thrown ontop of the game to hide its own flaws. That sort of art can stand alone. And game mechanics as art can also stand alone from theme and plot and visual art. But they won't sell.

The art of games can lie in three places as far as I can tell: mechanics, sub-content (textures, models, music, etc.), and plot.  Implementation remains science, apologies to Mr Carmack - although he wrote off gaming-as-art as mere "sophistries" long ago.  I would argue mechanics as a selling point with Unreal Tournament's significant sales numbers and fanbase.

That's assuming that every game designer is aiming for an accurate description of the real world, which is blatantly untrue. Chess is NOT aiming to be an accurate model of warefare. The idea of war in it is nothing but a metaphor - one that breaks very easily under scrutiny. The miniature universes that designers create are complete by definition: if they exist, and they work, then they are complete in of themselves. Hell, they don't always have to work, since a complex enough logical system will give rise to paradox.

My phrasing of "all existences" would imply existences entirely hypothetical and divested of any similarities to our own - chess, tetris, and other abstract games certainly fall here.

That doesn't mean that games with great plots can't be considered art, but if the mechanics aren't used to express ideas, then the art doesn't really need the game in the first place, and can be considered art without calling it game-art.

My point was - all art forms, be they system-rules-as-art (mechanics), system-progression-as-art (plot), or system-data-as-art (content) - are contained within games, potentially.  Only perception-of-system (implementation), which is entirely external to the system, qualifies as a technical/scientific endeavour.

--Ryv
#27 by Ryvar
2002-07-08 14:14:12
sonnej@rpi.edu
Sorry, I misread your second point, remove 'unreal tournament' and replace with 'tetris'
#28 by Bezzy
2002-07-08 14:32:16
painberry@hotmail.com http://www.antifactory.org

My point was - all art forms, be they system-rules-as-art (mechanics), system-progression-as-art (plot), or system-data-as-art (content) - are contained within games, potentially.  

Okay. We essentially agree. I can't wait for the whole creative process of games to mature. It's really annoying to be talking about the same thing but disagreeing due to symantics. The problem is, the word "game" alone is soheavily loaded. Most of the time when I talk about game design, I'm talking about game-mechanic design... but that hardly runs off the tongue easily.

Sorry, I misread your second point, remove 'unreal tournament' and replace with 'tetris'

Agreed! Interesting point here, though. The few games that have been interperated as artistic messages through their mechanics (Tetris being the sweeping away of accumulated tasks, one by one, on the desk of a cube-life office worker, Pac-Man being a metaphor for 80's greed etc.) have not intentionally done so (The idea for PacMan came from a half finished pizza).

So, I'm not sure about this, but when something is accredited as art, and it was unintentional, does that mean it's actually more of an icon?

The best way to create an award winning game is to write the acceptance speech first.
#29 by LPMiller
2002-07-08 14:44:49
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I want a neural interface to the governments fully functional Star Wars class 'Defense, honest!" sate system. This way, anytime someone got into the games as art thing, I'd just have them killed.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#30 by LPMiller
2002-07-08 14:45:03
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
And the surrounding area they occupy.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#31 by LPMiller
2002-07-08 14:45:23
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Possibly the costal cities just for....shits and giggles.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#32 by LPMiller
2002-07-08 14:45:45
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Or even, coastal cities. Costal, coastal, fuck 'em all!

I believe I can fly......urk.
#33 by Matt Perkins
2002-07-08 14:50:58
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
LP

Maybe they weren't going to the extremes the bad Max was before...  Maybe you should just step back and relax...

Games are art.  Everything is art.  Duh.

oh, and thanks for the tag in #29.  :P

"I want a neural interface to the governments fully functional Star Wars class 'Defense, honest!" sate system. This way, anytime someone got into the games as art thing, I'd just have them killed."  - LPMiller
#34 by LPMiller
2002-07-08 14:53:56
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Games are art.  Everything is art.  Duh.



Targetting......

I believe I can fly......urk.
#35 by Ryvar
2002-07-08 14:55:28
sonnej@rpi.edu
I'd like something very similar, except I'd use the awesome killing powers at my commands to terminate anybody prone to making unbelievably vapid death threats.  Or named Miller - I think eliminating people with the last name 'Miller' would go down very well with the gaming community at large, in fact.

--Ryv
#36 by Matt Perkins
2002-07-08 15:00:05
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I'm afraid I can't allow you to do that, Ryvar.  

Destroying Miller is against the prime directive, Ryvar.  Without the Miller I would have to change my .sig a lot less, Ryvar.  Though I have no directive against destroying those who would harm the Miller, Ryvar.


(this message brought to you by a very tired Matt)

"I want a neural interface to the governments fully functional Star Wars class 'Defense, honest!" sate system. This way, anytime someone got into the games as art thing, I'd just have them killed."  - LPMiller
#37 by Ryvar
2002-07-08 15:01:33
sonnej@rpi.edu
Open the pod bay doors, MATT . . .
#38 by Jamiekin
2002-07-08 15:44:23
"Pleasure robots"

I'm from Australia, and I have a crocodile down my pants.
#39 by Duality
2002-07-08 16:07:41
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
LPM would love the episode of SG-1 titled "Absolute Power".

-Jon
#40 by webrunner
2002-07-08 17:07:46
webrunner@adventurers-comic.com http://www.adventurers-comic.com
FLYING CARS.

It isn't the future without mass-produced flying cars.  Until then, it's still the present.

You know, some people say things about ambiguity.
#41 by LPMiller
2002-07-08 17:11:08
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I'd be a pretty decent dictator, I think.  Sure, I'd have my bad days, and whole cities would die, but...well no, it'd pretty much suck for everyone else. Not my problem, really.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#42 by Neale
2002-07-08 17:22:04
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
gets my vote!

signatures are, as I've stated, for perverts
#43 by Darkseid-D
2002-07-08 18:49:22
rogerboal@hotmail.com
flying cars scare me

especially with how many dangerous people there are on the roads as it is

PUT THE FUCKING CELL PHONE DOWN AND DRIVE!

oh and you dont need a 5 litre turbocharged SUV that does 16mpg to pick the kid(s) up from school and take them to soccer practice, especially when youre surrounded by so much steel and plastic you believe youre invunerable and begin to ignore anyone and everyone else on the fucking road

then wonder why your car smashes into that barrier in the wet or sheds a tyre and goes a flipping down the road.


Ds

Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
#44 by ProStyle
2002-07-08 18:51:12
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
I think alot of us are getting a little too excited about having our brain mapped onto hardware. If you thought near so much about the real world as you do these games, I'm positive you'd absolutely reel from the idea of being limited to such an experience. I agree with what Warren said. All the rocket jumps and physics exploitations you may learn totally pale in comparison to the skill it takes to ride down a hill on a skateboard, in other words.

If it ever occured though, it would be an absolute phenom. It'd replace telivision, movies, games and roll them all into one platform. Developers would be responsible for actually mixing the genres together but the delivery vehicle would remain the same... and that'd be scary.
#45 by mgns
2002-07-08 19:04:51
oh and you dont need a 5 litre turbocharged SUV that does 16mpg to pick the kid(s) up from school and take them to soccer practice, especially when youre surrounded by so much steel and plastic you believe youre invunerable and begin to ignore anyone and everyone else on the fucking road


safer overtakings...

professional philosophical level design monkey.
#46 by "Sgt Hulka"
2002-07-08 19:20:51
sgt_hulka@yahoo.com http://www.hulka.com
Scenes in movies with flying cars crack me up.  Just imagine the mess when one car has an unexpected mechanical problem causing an accident.  The entire sky will light up with exploding cars like the fourth of July from the chain reaction.
#47 by Charles
2002-07-08 19:27:19
www.bluh.org
Why do people feel this need to call games art?

Entertainment, art, whatever.  The only difference is how much bullshit you slather on top.  

Me?  I make games.

...is the new SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP.
#48 by Cliff
2002-07-08 19:31:03
cps46@rcn.com
The car scenes in the Fifth Element were the most ridiculous I've seen.  Stylistically a pretty cool movie though Chris Tucker's hyper TV personality might turn out to be scarily/funnily prescient.  Plus, naked Yummovitch.

I want to get close enough to Bush to find out whether his cochlear implant is Bluetooth or 802.11b.  And then hack it.
#49 by Darkseid-D
2002-07-08 19:31:39
rogerboal@hotmail.com
mgns `safer` overtakings?

how exactly does a 5l engine thats been crippled by emissions testing and a speed limit of FIFTY FIVE (occasionally 65) aid safer overtaking?

answer, it doesnt

reason for SUV == `the american way` - consume as much as possible and make other people pay for it, and if they disagree theyre terrorists, fuck them, bomb them then sue them.

clue, the rest of the world does not need 4 litre engines pulling 2 ton `cars` who wont carpool, america is not a shiney unique snowflake, america is not is GNP, america is not furniture from ikea.

/me is sick with some unknown virus thats attacking his lungs, causing him to cough horribly and choke up various biological matters, me has been sick for nearly 3 weeks, me is finally getting round to seeing the dr tomorrow as its obviously not just a cold.

/me is cranky, so if this post offends you, fuck you very much, but have a nice life.

Ds

Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
#50 by Caryn
2002-07-08 19:41:43
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
Ds:

reason for SUV == `the american way` - consume as much as possible and make other people pay for it, and if they disagree theyre terrorists, fuck them, bomb them then sue them.


Ds, if it's any consolation, I'm one American who can't stand the SUV craze here. I'm fine with people buying SUVs when they're actually appropriate -- you camp a lot, do a lot of off-roading, haul a lot of stuff around and need the power/room. Every second car in southern California, it seems, is an SUV, and they're getting bigger every damn year. Even the names are ridiculous: the Cadillac ESCALADE. Excuse me? Why is Cadillac making an SUV?!

Ugh, I could go on forever on this subject, so I won't.

"Deathmatch rules, nobody plays coop, and people who play single player are regarded as a little strange. Just like real life." submitted by astute reader Mark
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