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T O P I C
Lean and Bleem
June 2nd 2000, 14:27 CEST by Mugwum

Firstly, go and read this interview with the guys behind bleem! It sheds some light on who they are and just what the heck they are using to argue Sony down in court. Then come back here and join in the discussion.



Okay, perhaps it's a little unethical to link my own interview from the front page of PlanetCrap, but the discussion concerns ethics in one way or another, and their answers were my inspiration for this topic.

Firstly, the guys lay bare their arguments FOR the software's continued existence:

  • It allows Playstation owners to play their games in higher resolutions on their PCs than they could on their consoles.
  • It gives PC owners the opportunity to buy and play Playstation games that they would otherwise have no reason to purchase.
  • It helps Sony because Sony get a cut from each game sold.
Fair enough. Now here are the parts they don't want you to know:
  • It encourages software piracy by allowing the use of copied Playstation CDs.
  • It damages Playstation console sales by taking away the need for the purchase of an expensive console.
Now, it's true, they do answer both of those negative points in the interview, and while not water-tight, their arguments are somewhat valid. However, now that they have announced bleemcast, all of that goes out of the window. Here are the important things you should know about bleemcast:
  • It allows people to buy Sony games and play them on their Sega console.
  • [Unconfirmed] It will allow you to play COPIED PSX CDs on your Sega console.
  • It will allow you to use unofficial peripherals that mimic the Sony ones to play the games.
  • It will GUARANTEE compatibility with all of the games mentioned on the box of the 'pak', meaning that there's no concern on the part of the buyer - they no longer need a Playstation.
  • It will play the games at higher resolutions, meaning that anyone with a brain will buy a bleempak for Dreamcast rather than fork out for a Playstation.
The question is, is this an ethical move for bleem (or Sega!), or is it just the confirmation of the hardful intent bleem have had toward Sony since the beginning? Discuss...
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#1 by "Diseased"
2000-06-02 14:35:06
diseasedanimal@yahoo.com
Bleem = good.  I have no problem with it, and it was ruled fair by the courts in the US.
#2 by "asspennies"
2000-06-02 14:35:57
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
Sony doesn't make any money on their consoles, anyway.  They LOSE money.  Taking away PS sales is actually a good thing for Sony - in a roundabout way.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#3 by "Mugwum"
2000-06-02 14:40:04
tom@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
Do you have any data to back that up? I can't see how that's true - why on earth would they bother making another one if they're losing money?
#4 by "Mat Bettinson"
2000-06-02 14:41:58
mat@getsomeskillz.com http://www.getsomeskillz.com
It's about Intellectual Property. They have to defend this and they'll keep defending it.

Sony probably views the Bleem market as the same sort of guys that pirate PS titles anyhow and... that's probably not too wide of the mark.

They probably think it's a fairly nifty idea in reality but since it's not Sony that's selling it and making money from it - they'll keep throwing money at lawyers until it goes away.

And I have to say, I don't fancy Bleem's chances.

Mat 'Lurker' Bettinson
#5 by "asspennies"
2000-06-02 14:44:31
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
<b>#3</b> "Mugwum" wrote...
<QUOTE>Do you have any data to back that up? I can't see how that's true - why on earth would they bother making another one if they're losing money? </QUOTE>

It's pretty much common knowledge that no console company makes any money on their hardware, and they actually lose money on each sale.  They make up for it in software, though.

I'll see if I can find specific quotations for this, but like I say, it's the same for every company that makes a console.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#6 by "Mat Bettinson"
2000-06-02 14:44:34
mat@getsomeskillz.com http://www.getsomeskillz.com
Mugs,

They lose money on making playstations because every single PS title is mastered and licensed by them. They get a big cut out of every PS game sold and that's worth a *lot* more money than hardware sales.

For ever PS sold, they can guarantee X amount of software will be bought for it. So it makes sense to virtually give them away. It's akin drug dealers, your first hit is free :)

Mat 'Lurker' Bettinson
#7 by "Mugwum"
2000-06-02 14:53:31
tom@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
Mat,

<quote>They lose money on making playstations because every single PS title is mastered and licensed by them.</quote>

Ah yes, makes sense now. Perhaps that was a consideration of the judge who denied the injunction to prevent sales. From what I can gather it was hardly an OJ Simpson-style hearing, so what do you think won the judge over?
#8 by "Mat Bettinson"
2000-06-02 15:00:25
mat@getsomeskillz.com http://www.getsomeskillz.com
I've no idea and, to be frank, little faith in the American legal system full stop. He probably saw a movie once where there was some poor hero beseiged in a court room by 4 rows of 6 figure salaried lawyers operating on behalf of an Evil Baby Eating Corporation.

Or was that Aly MacBeal?

Mat 'Lurker' Bettinson
#9 by "RebThor"
2000-06-02 15:03:09
eventodd@adelphia.net
While it may be true that Sony lost money on Playstations in the beginning, it is entirely possible that they make money on them now (or at least did make money on them at some point in time).  Simply because their h/w costs drop tremendously over the course of the life of the console.

I think however, that the real reason that they were up in arms about bleem! was because of IP issues.  When the truth came out in court that there was no IP problem, I think it pissed them off and they decided to nickel and dime bleem! in the courts.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "Jafd"
2000-06-02 15:06:01
jafd@whatthefuck.com
There must be more to this sordid tale that I'm not aware of. Why doesn't Sony just force Bleem to use their tech to make sure it isn't a CD-R copy being played, raise the licensing fees a touch on their games, and go sit in the corner and count their money as it rolls in?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#11 by "asspennies"
2000-06-02 15:11:22
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
<b>#9</b> "RebThor" wrote...
<QUOTE>While it may be true that Sony lost money on Playstations in the beginning, it is entirely possible that they make money on them now (or at least did make money on them at some point in time). Simply because their h/w costs drop tremendously over the course of the life of the console.</QUOTE>

I would tend to disagree.  You're still talking about a faily complicated set of semiconductor components, a CD-ROM drive (doublespeed as it may be), and at least one controller, as well as a power converter and a case (of course purchased in bulk.)

And even though the hardware costs have no doubt gone down tremendously, so has the price of the console.  It's selling for less than $100 now - and probably costs slightly more per unit to make.  (And let's not forget dev costs - which of course they probably have easily already recouped)

Regardless, if someone buys a PS these days, they're most likely going to purchase at LEAST 3 games - more than enough for Sony to make all their money back and then some.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#12 by "Desiato"
2000-06-02 15:25:12
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com
All these arguments will be relevant until the next platform ships.

But seriously...

Perhaps the popularity is because it enables gamers to step off of the "Buy a new piece of hardware every generation" treadmill. I can see users who really like console games, but are frustrated by the aggressive tendency to replace your main hardware every 12 months.

What Sony may be truly afraid of is that they won't get any repeat customers on the hardware side once their users get a taste of high resolution, coupled with a decent gamepad plugged into the PC.

"Hey -- you mean I can buy games and play 'em without worrying about hardware? Kickass!!"

The only thing of course is that bleem has to keep up with new games compatibility and platform/coding changes.

Desiato..
#13 by "MCorleone"
2000-06-02 15:30:33
john_st123@hotmail.com
The console is a "Loss Leader"

They lose money on the console to get it into your house.  They don't rely on money from the consumer.  Well, they do _indirectly_.  They get paid royalties from the companies that make the games for it.  If GameX from Taito (heheh) sells 1million copies, Sony gets $0.05 per copy.  

Cell phones work on the same principle:  Take a hit on the hardware, because they know that, for the most part, they'll make their money back + profit on airtime.
#14 by "asspennies"
2000-06-02 15:31:26
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
Let's be honest - it's not like PCs are immune to the upgrade bug, either.  It seems like every year, we need to upgrade our machines, as well.  And it usually costs more to do so.

Still, there's something so much cooler about a fresh, powerful new PC than a new plastic-box console.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#15 by "Pete Closs"
2000-06-02 15:34:46
<b>#3</b> "Mugwum" wrote...
<QUOTE>Do you have any data to back that up? I can't see how that's true - why on earth would they bother making another one if they're losing money? </QUOTE>

As far as I know it is. They make a silly amount of money from software sales. Not just their own, but sales of every single other game due to the licensing agreement. It seems that by stopping Bleem! from increasing their sales they're shooting themselves in the foot. Of course, my take on this could be wrong.

Also, although I'm not sure of it I seem to remember one of the Bleem! guys telling me at E3 that they're taking some anti-piracy measures. Couldn't tell you what they were if they are, but I they've apparently got some crash hot security guy from the UK in looking at that and other stuff.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#16 by "Greg"
2000-06-02 15:41:15
It is funny how Sony could use a loophole to nail bleem!. If you didn't know, the copy protection scheme was used in the original PC version of bleem!. That was a way the bleem! guys used to prove they were legal. It's ironic that the copy protection is copyrighted, and now bleem! can't check for it.

Why does Sony care? They lose a ton of money on every PSX sold. They make their money selling games! Actually, it is fairly obvious why they care. They aren't in full control of their product, and it pisses them off to no end.

Greg
#17 by "loonyboi"
2000-06-02 16:07:58
jason@loonygames.com http://www.bluesnews.com
<b>#3</b> "Mugwum" wrote...
<QUOTE>Do you have any data to back that up? I can't see how that's true - why on earth would they bother making another one if they're losing money? </QUOTE>

Sony has always lost money on the PS hardware...all console companies do. They make it back (in spades) off of software licensing and peripheral sales (which is why the peripherals for the PS2 are so overpriced).

-jason<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#18 by "Andy"
2000-06-02 16:14:20
andy@planetcrap.com
When the first Bleem CD's were being duplicated, the initial ruling in Sony's case against Connectix was due and Sony was expected to win.

The CD's were duplicated without the emulator itself. Customers has to download the emulator from the Connectix web site.

If the Sony case had been successful, Connectix would have been ordered to cease distribution of Bleem.

If the emulator had been included on the CD, a recall of all unsold units would have been necessary, something that would have been hugely expensive and could have exposed Connectix to further law suits.

Instead, Connectix could comply with the court ruling simply by deleting the emulator from its web server. The company would likely then have been dissolved to avoid law suits from consumers and retailers.

People who had already purchased Bleem would be left with an unfinished beta. People who later bought Bleem (which would have still been available in stores) would never have been able to download the emulator.

I believe this scenario was anticipated by Connectix, and planned for.

In the time leading up to the initial ruling, work on Bleem stopped. Work only resumed when the ruling went against Sony. Following this, a new batch of retail CD's were duplicated, these ones including the emulator itself.

Because of this, I do not trust Connectix and I am sceptical of the "moral high ground" approach it has taken in the media, especially the claims that Sony's case is anti-consumer. Such claims have no credibility coming from a company that was prepared to betray its entire customer base.
#19 by "Mugwum"
2000-06-02 16:23:07
tom@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
Andy,

Bleem has nothing to do with Connectix, surely. Connectix develop and entirely different emulator...
#20 by "asspennies"
2000-06-02 16:30:47
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
<b>#19</b> "Mugwum" wrote...
<QUOTE>Bleem has nothing to do with Connectix, surely. Connectix develop and entirely different emulator... </QUOTE>

Yup, Connectix's emulator was strictly for Macs.  Mac users are no stranger to being screwed over by software companies and Apple alike.  As much as they'd hate to admit it, they either have to go with Apple's decisions or else simply walk away from Macs - there is no other choice.

(I believe Coonectix was developing a PC version of their emulator, but Bleem! beat them to the punch)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#21 by "MoodyAllen"
2000-06-02 16:46:54
moodyallen@subdimension.com
<b>#20</b> "asspennies" wrote...
<QUOTE>#19 "Mugwum" wrote...

Bleem has nothing to do with Connectix, surely. Connectix develop and entirely different emulator...


Yup, Connectix's emulator was strictly for Macs. Mac users are no stranger to being screwed over by software companies and Apple alike. As much as they'd hate to admit it, they either have to go with Apple's decisions or else simply walk away from Macs - there is no other choice.

(I believe Coonectix was developing a PC version of their emulator, but Bleem! beat them to the punch)</QUOTE>

Actually, Connectix released the Video Game Station, their Playstation emulator for the PC.  I've read (on an emulation discussion board) that it kicks Bleem's ass left and right in compatibility, playing almost every single game without problems, whereas Bleem! will only play "some" games with enhancements.  The VGS doesn't enhance graphics, BUT it may do so in the future.

Bleem users are still waiting for the next patch.  I've also seen rumors of the Bleem! team moving to BleemPacks for the PC version... which fans of the emulator are NOT happy about.  They bought an emu that was advertised with lifetime updates, and then "may" have to buy 3 or 4 BleemPacks just to get their games to work.  Hell, I'd get nervous too;  an emulator that I've bought has the guys working on a Dreamcast version that requires the purchase of Bleem! packs in order to work correctly.

The Bleem! team said they'd work on the next version of PC Bleem! after the Dreamcast version is available... what, at the end of the year?

Does this sound crooked to you guys?  I'd like an interview with their competition, Connectix, as that seems a far more interesting story than Bleem.  They beat Connectix to the punch on the PC version, but first doesn't necessarily mean best.  I haven't played either, but the above's what I've read.

I wonder if a Dreamcast Gameshark will bypass that game locking crap.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#22 by "Gabe Kruger"
2000-06-02 17:11:36
gakruger@hotmail.com
Do people really believe that PlayStation software sales will be impacted in any significant way because of bleem? I personally don't see it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#23 by "Greg"
2000-06-02 17:41:11
<B>#22,</B>Gabe wrote:

<QUOTE>Do people really believe that PlayStation software sales will be impacted in any significant way because of bleem? I personally don't see it.</QUOTE>

The only impact bleem! or VGS, or the emulator known as the PSX2 would have on PSX games would be to prolong their shelf life a little longer. I doubt saleswise emulators cause titles to sell significantly more. But in a year or two, when PSX development is all but stopped, the emulators may become gamestore darlings by allowing them to get rid of old stock.

Greg
#24 by "Andy"
2000-06-02 17:53:14
andy@planetcrap.com
*blush*

Mugwum - yes, I got the two confused, Bleem is nothing to do with Connectix.

So in post #18 just replace "Connectix" with "Bleem". The point still stands that Bleem was all set to be a huge consumer rip-off if Sony had won its first case.

--

When we talked about this last night I was thinking to myself, <i>this guy's an idiot, he's writing about Bleem and he doesn't even know who Connectix is</i>. Oops! :)
#25 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-06-02 18:11:21
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
We actually got one of the first Bleem! boxed releases, and it was, indeed, lacking the actual emulator, which came later.

While I think Bleem has a legitimate case, and I'm all for the little guy taking on the big corporation, we should really be questioning why Bleem shipped a product that didn't work as advertised. They charge you for an emulator to play PlayStation games that, frankly, didn't work with most games.

It's gotten better, but THIS is the sort of behavior people at the 'Crap have railed against in the past, the whole "ship it now, patch it later" mentality that seems to permeate our industry. Are y'all willing to toss that aside because because of the appeal of the David versus Goliath legal battle?
#26 by "Pete Closs"
2000-06-02 20:29:42
<b>#22</b> "Gabe Kruger" wrote...
<QUOTE>Do people really believe that PlayStation software sales will be impacted in any significant way because of bleem? I personally don't see it. </QUOTE>

Hardly. They should be more concerned about those dodgy chips that let you play pirated games on the machine. 'course, they probably tried to stop them being sold and failed also.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#27 by "crash"
2000-06-02 21:07:16
crash@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
i don't think sony sells the game decks at an actual loss, at least in the US, because that type of behavior--"dumping"--is specifically prevented by antitrust legislation. i do agree that their profit margin on 'em is really really slim, though, and they may even be selling them at cost. and yes, the majority of their console-related income is from the games. only makes sense; you can only sell one, maybe two, decks to any given consumer.

now, as for my opinion why bleem's DC thing is such a huge kick inna nutz for sony:

the DC has better gfx than the PS2, imho, and i've yet to see any titles on the PS2 that have convinced me otherwise. this, however, could change. in addition, bleem doesn't just emulate games, it also improves them as it can by using the capabilities of the hardware. for instance, the DC does anti-aliasing; the PS2 apparently doesn't, at least in hardware. so with a bleem DC emulator, your PSX games will look better on your DC than on your PS2. how ironic is that.

secondly, the ps2's hittin shelves at a list of 300 later this year, while sega's cuttin their DCs to 149 sometime this month. DC games are cheaper list than PS2's will be, according to data from Sony, and, really, the PS2's positioning itself as a home entertainment unit, not a gaming deck.

hmm. don't know where i'm going with this. all i know for certain is this: i like what bleem's doing. :)
#28 by "asspennies"
2000-06-02 22:13:12
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
<b>#27</b> "crash" wrote...
<QUOTE>i don't think sony sells the game decks at an actual loss, at least in the US, because that type of behavior--"dumping"--is specifically prevented by antitrust legislation. </QUOTE>

"Dumping" is prohibited for market items - where there is a technically equal version of the same device and you're selling it for less than the cost to produce.

However, that doesn't apply to monopolistic competition - a device such as Sony's playstation is unique and patented.  If they want to sell it below cost, that's their right.  It doesn't infringe on anyone else because no one else is making playstations.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#29 by "asspennies"
2000-06-02 22:16:34
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
<b>#27</b> "crash" wrote...
<QUOTE>i don't think sony sells the game decks at an actual loss, at least in the US, because that type of behavior--"dumping"--is specifically prevented by antitrust legislation. </QUOTE>

"Dumping" is prohibited for market items - where there is a technically equal version of the same device and you're selling it for less than the cost to produce.

However, that doesn't apply to monopolistic competition - a device such as Sony's playstation is unique and patented.  If they want to sell it below cost, that's their right.  It doesn't infringe on anyone else because no one else is making playstations.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#30 by "None-1a"
2000-06-02 22:22:12
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#27</b> "crash" wrote...
<QUOTE>while sega's cuttin their DCs to 149 sometime this month. </QUOTE>

The last I was aware was that Sega wasn't directly droping the price any time soon, rather they where going to have a rebate deal that for any one that turned in the rebate would drop the price down to 149, simmaler to there Seganet deal for a fee Dreamcast. I have yet to see any indication that a real price drop is comming any time soon.

As for the Connectix thing sony acctauly won that case (in a round about way at least), mostly because when the G3's where released Apple had a deal to offer the VGS for free with any new system, which would have resulted in a number of sales for them. After the suite was anounched Apple droped the plan, which ment a large loss for Connectix.

As for the whole Bleem thing, Bleem as got to be one of the most overly fan loved software titles ever developed IMHO. I've seen nothing about it (at lest in demo form) that would allow it to run up such a large fan base, after all it's lacking the number one requirement for a good EMU, compatability. I'd also love to see Sega's reaction if some one anounced a Dreamcast EMU for the PS2.  <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#31 by "JohnQuincyBadass"
2000-06-02 22:49:19
shannon2@beer.com
Sony may or may not be losing money on console sales, but I think that they would rather lose a little money and have one more piece of electronics in your living room that says SONY on it.  I don't think bleem is doing them a favor by saving them the loss incurred from selling consoles for below cost.

As far as Sony letting bleem use their security for detecting CD-Rs, that would send a message to bleem saying <QUOTE>We don't like what you are doing, but there's nothing we can do about it so please do not let people steal our software too.</QUOTE>
#32 by "Jeremy"
2000-06-03 01:00:07
jnthornh@eos.ncsu.edu
Correct me if I'm wrong (I no longer follow the console market very closely), but isn't the PS2 supposed to have backwards compatibility... able to play original PSX games also?

If that is the case, then they <I>do</I> stand to lose due to the existance of emulators such as bleam.  The ability to play PSX games on other systems (dreamcasts, PCs, what have you) would effectively negate one of the advantages in buying a PS2.

I could be totally wrong on this though...

Jeremy<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "Mugwum"
2000-06-03 09:51:23
tom@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
Jeremy,

You're quite right. The other problem for Sony is that for some hardware reason, the PS2 won't be guaranteed to work with ALL PSX games, only the majority, so these bleempaks will in fact be a better bet for the PSX-playing consumer aiming to sell his/her console!
#34 by "sprayNwipe"
2000-06-03 16:07:24
spraynwipe@null.net http://about:nothing
Okay, both "things they don't want you to know" aren't exactly true:

* As a few people have been saying before, every console manufacturer uses the console hardware itself as a loss leader. Basically, they give the console away for less than cost price, and then get the money back through the games

* As for "encourages CD copying", versions of bleem! from way back managed to detect whether games were the original black-sided disc or a copied CD. Bleem even made a test program before they incorporated it into bleem! to make sure that the detection code would work with all computers...

whether the CD stuff is true or not still I don't know - I haven't touched bleem! for ages. However, I seriously doubt that they have taken it out...
#35 by "sprayNwipe"
2000-06-03 16:09:08
spraynwipe@null.net http://about:nothing
duh..read the article...ignore the second bit ;p
#36 by "Jeremy"
2000-06-04 18:30:38
jnthornh@eos.ncsu.edu
I think this thread has died here, but just in case anybody is still watching it...

Over at /. I saw a link to <a href="http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20000602S0008">this site</a> which describes Sony moving to actually licence the PS2 platform to other companies.

Just one more reason to kill Bleem?

Jeremy<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#37 by "Dauthi"
2000-06-08 00:43:28
ryoko@tokyo-3.com
I am a Bleem user and someone needs to speak from this side of the arguement.
I am a college student who lives in the dorms.  This means I have to move fully at least twice a year and do several small moves for long breaks where I want some entertainment.  I am also living with very limited room at the dorms with roommates that may or maynot be trustworthy.  I have to have a computer either way so bleem was the only choice.  I get a playstation that is stored in a jewel case, That and a controler is all the packing I need for spring break.
Sony got sales of several games that there is no way they would have otherwise got, Microsoft sold a game pad, and I didn't have to buy a game shark because I could just d/l a computer version that works with bleem.
True not all games work with it, and some games run slow (Mostly fighting games it seems) but sometimes circumstances make it impracticle to get a console so basicly Bleem and other emulators open up a market to sony that they otherwise wouldn't get.
The people who steal PSX games will always find a way around and frankly bleem won't contribute substantial losses.
These of course are only my opinions and circumstances so take them as you will.
Please excuse any grammer or spelling errors, english isn't my best subject.
#38 by "torky"
2000-08-20 17:12:08
torky_2000@usa.net
<i>Thinking...</i>
#39 by "omer"
2000-09-07 09:07:51
maha.z@usa.net
bleam software should be available free on the internet also so every one could get load of this
#40 by "Jeremy"
2000-09-08 23:44:23
jnthornh@eos.ncsu.edu
Testing!

Jeremy
--
Despite your efforts to be a romantic hero, you will gradually evolve into a postmodern plot device. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#41 by "Marc"
2000-10-24 14:54:53
chichiri@wetwetwet.com
Can you let have the full version of Bleem v1.5b, because I couldn't find a website of it. PLEASE!!!PLEASE!!!
#42 by "Enrique Vazquez"
2000-11-08 10:16:07
Dianelvazquez@yahoo.com
Where Can I buy, or download the latest psx emulator for pc.
#43 by "Robert"
2000-11-11 10:17:10
rmtaylor@graciecrescent.fsnet.co.uk
Can you let me have the full version of Bleam PLEASE. PLEASE.
Cheers
#44 by "GRAEME"
2000-11-11 22:29:36
coolmatesuk@Hotmail.com
doea any one now were i can get a full free version of bleam
#45 by "andi cahya"
2001-04-06 16:37:56
andicahya@yahoo.com
whey halo all just want too tell u that full version of bleem cannot be find in the web cause it is a comercial emulator....but you can find the cracker one.
or the cd key remover.   i find it when i try search by google search
why dont try it, but dont down load the crack version cause it usually have some virus inside it......byeee
#46 by "cooldude"
2001-04-10 17:13:48
totalcrap@hotmail.com
andi ur a big fool.i found the full version
#47 by "Stuart Macgregor"
2001-04-12 22:32:32
MEANJEAN@btinternet.com
I NEED A COPY OF THE LASTEST BLEAM !!! PLEASE
SO I CAN PLAY ISS PRO, ANYBODY WHO HAS PLAYED THE GAME KNOWS MY NEEDS.
THANX
#48 by "CyberVaca"
2001-04-28 21:05:26
CyberVaca17@hotmail.com
illo donde me bajo el BlemmCast !!!!
Donwload Bleemcast
#49 by "pavreet"
2001-04-30 14:51:33
singhpv@rediffmail.com www.rediiffmail.com
Thinking...
#50 by "Blake"
2001-08-02 04:38:00
ih8tbl8@yahoo.com
To each his/her own,  I just want to live my life.  Everybody is always out to get somebody else for whatever reason,  and like everything in the world,  we are the ones who make it more difficult for ourselves. So present the strongest case availeable for yourselves and I wish you good luck in you journey through the courts...  just remember, there are always loopholes all over the judicial system, so do the homework and present yourself professionally.
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