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Apogee Bans Negative Reviews
May 31st 2000, 12:58 CEST by andy

One of the world's best-selling games developers, Texas-based Apogee (also known as 3D Realms), has introduced what is perhaps the most restrictive license agreement ever seen.



The tenuity of application -- you are bound by the agreement if you use any Apogee game or visit the company's web site -- suggests that it has been created in anticipation of the UCITA proposals being passed in Texas.

Often thought to cover just software, the Uniform Computer Information Transactions Act deals with any form of digital publishing that can be protected by a license agreement. This includes music, video, text and web sites.

One of the greatest concerns voiced by critics of UCITA is that it allows digital publishers to forbid negative reviews of their products, directly harming consumers. The Apogee license is the first known example of an agreement being used in this way.

Under the terms of the license, if you wish to use any of the company's 'materials' you must first obtain written permission. This applies to trademarks, logos, screenshots, music and video, but also extends to employee .plan files and even the license agreement itself.

Once permission has been granted, certain restrictions are imposed:

Use of Apogee trademarks "in a derogatory or defamatory manner, or in any negative context" is not allowed. This forbids critical reviews, whether they are in magazines, on web sites or in Usenet postings.

Use of the company's trademarks in "banner advertisements or other internet advertising mediums" is forbidden. This harms consumers, as online vendors are unable to advertise discounts on Apogee products, limiting their ability to compete with more established companies.

Apogee trademarks may only be used for "personal, informational, and non-commercial purposes", so fan sites that carry advertising or make money in any other way are in violation of the agreement.

Several other restrictions are also imposed.

Full agreement: Apogee Intellectual Property Rights

C O M M E N T S
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#1 by "Pete Closs"
2000-05-31 13:06:48
What? That is completely absurd. Although chances are Duke Forever is going to be a cool game, if it was a pile of crap the gamer has a right to know. I'd like to see the stick they'd get for attempting a legal beating on anyone who DID give one of their games a bad review. Maybe I should write a late review of Rise of the Triad and see what they do about the slamming I'd give it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "deadlock"
2000-05-31 13:14:45
deadlock@eircom.net
They couldn't do anything, because Rise Of the Triad was released before this agreement was put in place. Still sucks monkeys' though.
#3 by "deadlock"
2000-05-31 13:16:40
deadlock@eircom.net
erp! I just read the first paragraph from the link and you're actually right, Rise <b>is</b> covered by the new agreement.

so ehm...3D Realms/Apogee/whoever...ask me bollix ?

deadlock
#4 by "Andy"
2000-05-31 13:32:22
andy@planetcrap.com
Note: "greatest concerns voided by critics" was meant to be "greatest concerns <b>voiced</b> by critics". I've changed it now.
#5 by "Andy"
2000-05-31 13:37:18
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#1</b>, Pete Closs:
<QUOTE>
What? That is completely absurd. Although chances are Duke Forever is going to be a cool game, if it was a pile of crap the gamer has a right to know.
</QUOTE>
They also have a right to know about any bugs and missing features, but you're not allowed to mention those because you would be using the trademark in a "negative context". That is the main concern.
#6 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-05-31 13:49:36
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net/
<b>#5</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>They also have a right to know about any bugs and missing features, but you're not allowed to mention those because you would be using the trademark in a "negative context". That is the main concern. </QUOTE>

Apogee sucks ass. Now, can I be taken to court? Or would they just shoot me? Lets see...

Anyway, I doubt they would actually use the power which is given to them by this agreement; although the possibility itself is quite concerning...<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#7 by "Pete Closs"
2000-05-31 13:53:37
<b>#6</b> "PiRaMidA" wrote...
<QUOTE>#5 "Andy" wrote...
Apogee sucks ass. Now, can I be taken to court? Or would they just shoot me? Lets see...
</QUOTE>

No, you'd have to provide a screenshot with that, and you'd have to first get permission from 3D Realms to do so.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#8 by "Desiato"
2000-05-31 13:54:13
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com
Paraphrasing an old PlanetCrap quote:

"They have about as much control over reviews and opinion on the net as a fart in a whirlwind."

Once it's out -- the article can't be recalled. I really love this mentality behind the UCITA that thinks you can just restrict free speech, no matter what the consequences.

Personally -- I hope this is not going to be used by 3DRealms the way it is worded. More along the lines of what id's EULA did to protect end-users from "shovelware" CD creators.

Sure, if they went fully restrictive about it -- id would essentially kill the user mapping scene, but they're smarter than that and only would target commercial offenders.

So is this agreement in fact more of a target against copyright infringement? I guess it depends on how it is enforced.

I just can't see George Broussard thinking that enforcing something like this in a highly restrictive way is a good idea. I sure hope he comes by to post his feedback on it.


Desiato...
#9 by "sebi"
2000-05-31 13:56:11
sebi@blue-c.com
Iīm just waiting for a license agreement that
will keep me from giving a friend my opinion on
a game.
sebi
TimeToKill. Hail The King Of Action. Violating
that agreement twice in one line - isnīt this
nice?
#10 by "Desiato"
2000-05-31 13:58:29
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com
One quick thing occured to me -- how could a bug be classified as "negative"?

If you describe a factual and reproducible "bug" in a program -- isn't that just the plain truth? It's not like you're fabricating bug reports. I mean hey -- if the program deviates from its intended purpose then reporting on it is certainly within fair use.

I guess the difference would be:

"That lift bounce bug happens quite often."

versus

"That lift bounce bug happens so often, I'm sick of this piece of crap program."

So how would you apply (if it even does apply) the UCITA to the two above statements?

Do you nail the person who made a factual report, or do you (even more ridiculous) pursue the guy who made the comment plus the derogatory remark?

Frankly, I think they both should be left alone.


Desiato..
#11 by "asspennies"
2000-05-31 14:07:16
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
Once again, it's proven that the game industry is on the forefront of the entertainment industry as a whole.  Look for movie studious and book publishers to latch on to this sort of agreement, as well. (If possible)

But I don't think television studios will.  I think that TV is by it's nature a more open medium, since you can watch most of what's on TV for free - and if you pay for anything, it's the right to watch the channel, not the program.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#12 by "Morn"
2000-05-31 14:08:45
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Random thought...

If this really <i>can</i> limit your beloved free speech, why can nothing limit your beloved gun laws?

There are really just two possibilities... either reviews and the like are not affected (because of free speech), or The States are so utterly messed up that I will stop trying to understand them this very second.

- Morn (German, doh)
#13 by "Morn"
2000-05-31 14:19:17
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#12</b> "Morn" wrote...
<QUOTE>If this really can limit your beloved free speech, why can nothing limit your beloved gun laws?</QUOTE>

Of course, "limiting gun laws" as in actually making them a lot stricter. You know what I'm getting at.

- Morn (gun-less)
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#14 by "Darkseid-D"
2000-05-31 14:31:46
Darkseid-D@planetcrap.com http://www.clanvvv.co.uk
gee, wonder if this is another case of the lawyers / pr / sales-marketing dipdunks jumping the gun ?


quoth 'Motley Crew are doing the music for Tribes 2'

Dynamix & programming team respondeth 'First we heard about it'


Wonder is this a similar case .... and the Duke4ever team really _dont_ know anything about it....


Guess theres only one way to find out.... Now where's Mr GreenMarine or Mr Broussard or Mr Wiederhold ......

Ds

(addendum, or any other Apogee/3dr peep who's name has slipped past me)
#15 by "Avixe"
2000-05-31 14:33:15
jsg@fiam.net
"This one-star game definitely deserves a single star, as it's far better than no stars!"
#16 by "flamethrower"
2000-05-31 14:39:38
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
I can't blame 3DR one little bit.

D4E is using an engine that commits fellatio on diseased equines, now, as we are in the post-3DFX world.

For stability I have to use Creative Labs TNT2 drivers and they do NOT run Unreal/T anything like the glass-smooth Quake engines. Stutters, pauses, a laggy feel and a not-that-great look to it (I maintain on a 3DFX machine, UT IS GOD).

But the world is moving ever faster away from 3DFX and that HAS to be a worry for 3DR. Worry? I'd be waking up in a cold sweat if I were them, the dickheads could have been using the Quake 3 engine.

Imagine, the beauty and solidness of Q3's rendering, the exceptional game design of 3DR.
#17 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-05-31 15:05:07
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net/
<b>#7</b> "Pete Closs" wrote...
<QUOTE>
No, you'd have to provide a screenshot with that, and you'd have to first get permission from 3D Realms to do so. </QUOTE>

:)

quoting Andy: <quote>Use of Apogee trademarks "in a derogatory or defamatory manner, or in any negative context" is not allowed.</quote>

Screenshots are other thing, I don't need no stinking screenshots, most of the screenshots suck anyway, and they surely do say nothing about the game. What I do wish is to be able to express my opinion of the company and / or their product and I think I still have the full right to do so. As Desiato noted, pointing out bugs in software is nothing criminal, and no company I know of ever had problems with that.

But, looking at the quote above, I think it means that I can't say (okay "sucks ass" was a bad example) that "Apogee's new game Duke Nukem Forever crashes every time I start it" - I'll be subject to legal prosecution or whatever. Good thing is that I never visited their website and never agreed to this "agreement". I played RoTT but it had different agreement so it can not possibly apply to me, right?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#18 by "Martin"
2000-05-31 15:11:20
martin@theplace.nu http://martin.theplace.nu
#16: I run UT on a TNT2U/Celeron 473/128 Mb in Windows 2000 at 1024x768@32 bit color at about 30-40 FPS in average with the 420 patch and the 5.17 Detonator drivers. In the really big maps (DM-Crane for instance) it can get a bit laggy but once I jump down to 16 bit things run smooth again.

Whatever 3D Realms thinks needs fixing in the UT renderer I'm sure they're more than capable of handling. I'd much rather see them use the Unreal engine's capabilities for huge open areas than the slicker look of the Q3A engine.

Wait and see until the game ships before you rule out the engine in DNF.

-- Martin
"Damn you, Space Dog!"
#19 by "RahvinTaka"
2000-05-31 15:20:03
donaldp@mad.scientist.com
<b>#14</b> "Darkseid-D" wrote...
<QUOTE>Guess theres only one way to find out.... Now where's Mr GreenMarine or Mr Broussard or Mr Wiederhold ......</QUOTE>

Unfortunately they probably can't say anything on PC because if they did they could be risking too much legally (and possibly their jobs) by doing so.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#20 by "Greg"
2000-05-31 15:48:13
Maybe they are scared about DN4 being worse than Daikatana!!!

Seriously I hope this does not become commonplace. If a game is bad, I don't want to spend $50 and time just to find that out.

Will the adage "Say something nice or don't say anything at all" become a common metaphor in the video game industry? If you don't find a review of DN4 in PC Gamer, should you then assume that it sucks?

The UCITA and DMCA need to be thrown away, or at least run over with a fine tooth comb, because they are going to destroy the Internet (at least in the US).

Just my rambling...

Greg
#21 by "Tom (cyberfart)"
2000-05-31 16:16:37
tom187@dingoblue.net.au http://www.rtsplayers.org
This is the most fkn ridiculous thing I've ever read.
Apogee must have been taken over by aliens or something.

Sure, they can threaten magazines and, possibly, web sites, but wtf can they do against newsgroup postings? haha shite, I'd love to see them hire a bunch of lawyers to scour through 100+ thousand usenet groups and prosecute "Joe Gamer" for saying he doesn't like the game. Not to mention public msg boards and so forth.

Geocities will become real popular with 'anonymous' reviews too.

What were they thinking? Were they thinking??

/me doesn't know if I want to cry, laugh or smack someone (Apogee) real hard.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#22 by "loonyboi"
2000-05-31 16:28:24
jason@loonygames.com http://www.bluesnews.com
<b>#16</b> "flamethrower" wrote...
<QUOTE>D4E is using an engine that commits fellatio on diseased equines, now, as we are in the post-3DFX world.

For stability I have to use Creative Labs TNT2 drivers and they do NOT run Unreal/T anything like the glass-smooth Quake engines. Stutters, pauses, a laggy feel and a not-that-great look to it (I maintain on a 3DFX machine, UT IS GOD). </QUOTE>

How odd. I have a TNT2 Ultra reference board, and it runs UT perfectly.

Methinks something's very funky with your system, not UT.

-jason<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#23 by "Timdog"
2000-05-31 16:41:58
TheTimdog@hotmail.com
Morn:
<quote>If this really can limit your beloved free speech, why can nothing limit your beloved gun laws?

There are really just two possibilities... either reviews and the like are not affected (because of free speech), or The States are so utterly messed up that I will stop trying to understand them this very second.
</quote>

The states are pretty messed up in one regard anyway: Our legislature has a tendency to pass laws with no constitutional standing.  In otherwords, all these UCITA laws will probably last all of about 10 seconds in federal court. The argument is so easy to make on 1st (congress can't limit rights) and 14th (and neither can the states) Amendment grounds *I* could probably win the case. However, none of them have been tested yet, so currently they stand.

Of course, IANAL, but I play one one da'Crap :)

--The Timdog<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#24 by "flamethrower"
2000-05-31 16:43:44
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
Loony, Epic have distanced themselves from squeezing any more performance from D3D repeating over and over it was designed for Glide.
#25 by "flamethrower"
2000-05-31 16:48:37
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
...and at least one UK magazine, giving UT a score in the nineties, put a disclaimer in:

My system runs BLAZINGLY flast on games such as QIIIA, Descent 3, and resource-hog Nocturne. Do not even CONSIDER playing a game in less than 1024x768 unless the game simply doesn't support it. I have the fastest booting PC I have ever seen, I have tweaked every setting (I think). I'm trying to to boast too much - I don't want to tempt fate - but Unreal, PLAYABLE as it is does not have the crisp, sharp, feel and control other games do.
#26 by "flamethrower"
2000-05-31 16:54:26
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
...I have messed this up. :D  The UK gaming rag disclaimed to forget if you didn't have a Voodoo.

If you have a TNT2 and Unreal and Quake X and you get the same level of response, quite possibliy it's that your Quake experience is suffereing, thus they both look acceptable?
#27 by "Billy Saw Hurock"
2000-05-31 17:11:07
billysawhurock@hotmail.com http://www.bloweduprealgood.com
I understand why Apogee is trying to protect their property, but it's not going to work, good luck Scottie!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Under the Copyright Act of 1976, copyright owners have the exclusive right to reproduce, prepare derivative works, distribute, perform, display, transfer ownership, rent or lend their creations. Under the same Act, the "fair use" exemption places a limit on these exclusive rights to promote free speech, learning, scholarly research and open discussion. Accordingly, under the Act, educators may use portions of copyrighted material if the purpose and character of the use is educational in nature, previously published, not a substantial part of the entire work and if the marketability of the work is not impaired by the use.
#28 by "Rantage"
2000-05-31 17:23:39
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#8</b> "Desiato" wrote...
<QUOTE>
"They have about as much control over reviews and opinion on the net as a fart in a whirlwind."
</QUOTE>

Hahahah!  Somebody remembered....I'm flattered. :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#29 by "RahvinTaka"
2000-05-31 17:24:03
donaldp@mad.scientist.com
<b>#22</b> "loonyboi" wrote...
<QUOTE>How odd. I have a TNT2 Ultra reference board, and it runs UT perfectly. </QUOTE>

Well I have a G400 and it runs perfectly but nowhere near the same vacinity as a native glide card :D. However a lot of the problems stem from architecture and in some APIs they can get away with bad architecture.

<QUOTE>Methinks something's very funky with your system, not UT.</QUOTE>

well it is funky with a lot of systems then (everyone I have seen bar voodoo's on glide or on some of creatives glide wrappers pulls in many less FPS and worst of all it is inconsistent).<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#30 by "Billy Saw Hurock"
2000-05-31 17:35:05
billysawhurock@hotmail.com http://www.bloweduprealgood.com
I've got a TNT2 and UT is like butter.  Nothing wrong that I can notice, perhaps you need to upgrade your P-90?
#31 by "Rantage"
2000-05-31 17:38:44
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
What if I play an Apogee game purchased by a friend?  Would I not be exempt from the license agreement, and could I not then post my impressions of the game?

Maybe I'm just in a rebellious mood this morning, but if I purchased the game and gave it a negative review (sans logos or screenshots) and <I>still</I> found myself under fire by Apogee's legal weasels....hell, I'd be pretty damn eager to fight back.

I suspect the <A HREF="http://www.eff.org">EFF</A> and a few other organizations would be willing to support the fight, since it is a clear challenge to the First Amendment.  I also believe UCITA will be a monkey on our collective (American) backs until somebody challenges it in court, at which point it will be shot down.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#32 by "Happy cow"
2000-05-31 17:44:27
happycow30@hotmail.com http://happycow.home.icq.com
My 2 cents, this pretty much sucks.

Nuff said

Happy Cow (stunned and amazed at the land of free speech)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-05-31 17:47:51
rhiggi@home.com
<b>#31</b> "Rantage" wrote...
<QUOTE>What if I play an Apogee game purchased by a friend? Would I not be exempt from the license agreement, and could I not then post my impressions of the game?
.....
I suspect the EFF and a few other organizations would be willing to support the fight, since it is a clear challenge to the First Amendment. I also believe UCITA will be a monkey on our collective (American) backs until somebody challenges it in court, at which point it will be shot down.</QUOTE>
Its doesn't really matter, do you want to pay for a lawyer to defend you?

Yep, it wont last long.  As long as they think they might be able to get away with it though, why not try?   Why should Apogee give a damn about the people out here in the either?  Will it hurt sales?  No.  Do they care about anything else.  No.  
I wasn't a huge fan anyway, but I won't be buying any more of thier products. Period.

V<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "loonyboi"
2000-05-31 17:50:42
jason@loonygames.com http://www.bluesnews.com
<b>#24</b> "flamethrower" wrote...
<QUOTE>Loony, Epic have distanced themselves from squeezing any more performance from D3D repeating over and over it was designed for Glide. </QUOTE>

That may have been the case with Unreal, but UT runs great on non-3dfx cards.

-jason<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#35 by "Reuben Rosa"
2000-05-31 17:54:15
Reuben@digink.com http://www.digink.com
Now This is crazy...I will have to read this and laugh but I wonder does have something to do with this thread on the 3drealms forum?http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/002588.html

Here is a cut paste from this thread started by George Broussard..
"Topic:I welcome spirited debate as much as anyone.
   George Broussard
   Member

   Posts: 287
   From:3D Realms HQ
   Registered:
posted 05-26-2000 12:01 AM                

But I'm about an inch away from having Joe ban a few people from this board.
Oh, not because you disagree with us or "debate" with us. But because clearly you are
trolls, have nothing constructive to say, and take every opportunity to be negative.
So, I'll talk with Joe and see what can be done. I think this board will be a happier
place with a few people removed.
You wanna be 100% negative. That's fine. Just do it somewhere else. By the way, this
is something we take very seriously. We have never dont this before, but I think a few
select individuals are out of control.
Oh sure, cries of "censorship" and "board nazi" will come up, but all in all I think the
fans here will agree.
Hey, maybe we should start a thread with a vote on people to remove?

 George Broussard, 3D Realms"



Note this thread has been closed.

But it did reveal somethings.. Game Developers are human and and like some human beings...
they have their issues. Some get annoyed very easily and some need to get a thicker skin.

Question considering that their have been tons of games that have received all types of press and support with the company supporting this endeavor by revealing info on the games...

How many of these titles have really been damaged by advertising?

Maybe one game?

iBasically it resolves around the MEdia Blackout that they supposedly have put around DNF.. And this has created a huge spirited debate on the 3drealms forums.

Basically you have the Die-Hards who say
3drealms can do no wrong leave them alone.

Their are the Trolls who are attacking 3drealms for whatever inane reason.

Then there are some cynics who say...
Well since you did release info to PC Gamer magazine and screenshots.. didn't you go back on your word about the media blackout?

And then there are those who are new to the forum ask a question... And get flamed by the
die-hards who say This has been Explained 8 million times!!

Causing some of these New members to leave with a bad taste in their mouth.


Concerning this media blackout..
my opinion is this.

Good Games will do better with good press.
Bad Games will still suck with good press.
Unknown games need good press.

Uber GAmes will get attention no matter what...
and worrying about saving the sanctity of the suprise is foolish.

Age of Empires did fantastic with all the press it had.
So Did the The Sims.

What makes DNF different? Who knows but 3drealms sure as hell are up in arms about it..
#36 by "Happy cow"
2000-05-31 17:59:56
happycow30@hotmail.com http://happycow.home.icq.com
About UT and D3D. I personally have a Voodoo card, but a good friend of my has a Diamond S3 card. He thought it would be cool because it has lots of ram. But it seems to be incompatible with almost every game made (including Quake 2 engine games, somebody here mentioned they run on anything). Seem one of the few games he can get to run is Unreal Tournament. As far as I can see it runs fine. I have not done a time demo. But I have played on his system and it seems to work just Spiffy.

Happy Cow (  I might buy a new video card some day, but I'm not in a rush)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#37 by "senor-barborito"
2000-05-31 18:00:17
senor-barborito@zombieworld.com http://www.oldmanmurray.com
Well this is interesting . . . can't wait for the OMM discussion on THIS one (particularly as this kind of EULA negates their entire site).  

With any luck the DMCA will get wiped out in a controversy similar to the recent slashdot-microsoft-kerberos scandal.  Keep your fingers crossed.

--SB
#38 by "Diseased"
2000-05-31 18:23:51
diseasedanimal@yahoo.com
I have heard S3's latest cards tend to run UT pretty well.  I don't know if it's the Metal compression or what, but it supposedly runs fast and looks nice.  My TNT 2 U runs UT at an average fps of about 23 but that's probably because I have a P2-300.  My roommate is running a V3 2000 on a P2-266 and isn't getting much better.  Less hiccups, most notably in th eintro sequence but the framerate is probbaly close to the same.  The biggest problem I have seen with D3d is the damnable hiccups.  The image quality is great however and the framerate isn't TOO bad...
#39 by "Diseased"
2000-05-31 18:25:28
diseasedanimal@yahoo.com
Oh, and I should add that Apogee sucks ass for doing this.  Hidingfrom negative reviews with a legal threat is nothing short of cowardly and repugnant.  I hope the guys at 3DR whom I had respected aren't cool with this.  What a blemish on an otherwise great company.
#40 by "Jeffrey Powell"
2000-05-31 18:27:45
random1@speakeasy.org http://www.clan51.com
This is much bigger in the business software market.

Oracle loves it, as now they're the only one who can publish figures regarding Oracle performance...

I don't think it will stop ALL of the 'net sites from posting things, but it'll definitely chill the print magazines, if they really want to enforce this stuff.

Vote with your dollar, don't buy products with absurd license agreements.
#41 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-05-31 18:40:04
rhiggi@home.com
<b>#40</b> "Jeffrey Powell" wrote...
<QUOTE>This is much bigger in the business software market.

Oracle loves it, as now they're the only one who can publish figures regarding Oracle performance...

I don't think it will stop ALL of the 'net sites from posting things, but it'll definitely chill the print magazines, if they really want to enforce this stuff.

Vote with your dollar, don't buy products with absurd license agreements. </QUOTE>

Preach on brother.  What really scares me is what Microsoft can do with this sort of <i>power</i>.  I don't think it will hold up in court, but if it does....

V<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#42 by "Happy cow"
2000-05-31 18:43:00
happycow30@hotmail.com http://happycow.home.icq.com
Dose anyone want to go to court over the right to say a computer game sucks? I don't. I was excited about Duke coming out. But Now I think I'll pass. To many legal entanglements.

Happy Cow (please read the Happy cow EULA before commenting on Happy Cow)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#43 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-05-31 18:46:59
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
<b>#38</b> "Diseased" wrote...
<QUOTE>My TNT 2 U runs UT at an average fps of about 23 but that's probably because I have a P2-300. My roommate is running a V3 2000 on a P2-266 and isn't getting much better. Less hiccups, most notably in th eintro sequence but the framerate is probbaly close to the same. The biggest problem I have seen with D3d is the damnable hiccups. The image quality is great however and the framerate isn't TOO bad... </QUOTE>

As I've seen demonstrated (and usually mentioned with) in most benchmarks involving UT, the game's performance is CPU limited, so that makes sense. From what I've seen on my own system, the game runs quite well in D3D with no hiccups even at 32bit colour, it just takes a decent CPU to crank out the frames.
#44 by "Desiato"
2000-05-31 18:49:27
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com
Someone mentioned screenshots in #35. I just have one thing to say about this.

Daikatana, everyone's whipping boy -- put out so many shots that you could practically make an avi out of 'em and skipped the game altogether.

3DRealms released like what -- 8 shots....and I think that's about it.

Big difference between a small taste and a flood of images. At least for me.

(Still waiting for someone from 3DR to come in here and straighten this topic out.)

Desiato..
#45 by "Rantage"
2000-05-31 18:54:56
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#42</b> "Happy cow" wrote...
<QUOTE>Dose anyone want to go to court over the right to say a computer game sucks?
</QUOTE>

I would.

If I posted my <I>opinions</I> about a game and was suddenly faced with legal action for <I>speaking my mind</I>....damn right I'd jump into court to defend myself.  After all, if I didn't use screenshots or copyrighted artwork in my review then essentially all I'm defending is my right to free speech.

At risk of making one of those inane blanket statements, I think that anybody who <I>doesn't</I> feel the need to defend their right to free speech when attacked directly <I>deserve</I> to live in a country where idiot laws like UCITA exist.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#46 by "Happy cow"
2000-05-31 19:01:29
happycow30@hotmail.com http://happycow.home.icq.com
Rantage, if you are an American you live in such a country.

Happy Cow (not a lawyer but I play one on TV)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#47 by "Rantage"
2000-05-31 19:09:41
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#46</b> "Happy cow" wrote...
<QUOTE>Rantage, if you are an American you live in such a country.
</QUOTE>

And I think I just stated that I'm willing to fight such idiot laws.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "Diseased"
2000-05-31 19:13:40
diseasedanimal@yahoo.com
Right on HC.  

And Desatio, don't hold your breath for a 3DR d00d to post something on this.  Chances are, they have seen this and plan to hold their tongues till it fizzles out.  Though I wold love it if I was wrong.
#49 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-05-31 19:19:29
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net/
<b>#41</b> "Vengeance[CoD]" wrote...
<QUOTE>Preach on brother. What really scares me is what Microsoft can do with this sort of power. I don't think it will hold up in court, but if it does....
</QUOTE>

...the PC market would be dominated by linux.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#50 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-05-31 19:30:25
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net/
quote of the nanosecond -

"Yeah, it sucks and it's "unfair", but THIS is exactly how you learn about these things." -- by: Valeyard

means everything when OOC :) <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
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