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Hi! I'm making a mod but I don't have any talent, just an idea. Care to join my team?
May 17th 2002, 17:51 CEST by Martin

Apparantly idea men are the new nazis and nobody needs them or likes them. Anyone making a mod needs to be able to either code, model, do level design or bring something equally tangible to the table or he/she is a joke. Nevermind people skills and a willingness to do all the boring jobs like documentation, QA and forum managment.

I understand what you're saying when you say that ideas are a dime a dozen, because lord knows they are. Just take a look at all the derivative crap that's being sold for $49.95. Those are bad ideas though. Someone with an idea and no other skills isn't useless but his idea better be damn interesting, fun and properly thought through because otherwise he'll never get a team together.

I shed no tears for the me-too mods out there that never sees the day of light, what I do think is sad though is that there's so much prejudice against those of us with a vision, an idea. I'm not trying to defend the fact that I can't code in UnrealScript or map my way out of a hole in the ground, because I can do those things. I am trying to defend idea men, and women, though.
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Home » Topic: Hi! I'm making a mod but I don't have any talent, just an idea. Care to join my team?

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#1 by Charles
2002-05-17 17:53:10
www.bluh.org
No.

Bailey:  Beep beep, motherfucker.
#2 by Hugin
2002-05-17 17:53:13
lmccain@nber.org
Hm.
#3 by HoseWater
2002-05-17 17:55:47
barneyque@hotmail.com
I thought this was being pulled.

Now we have to go over it again.

Like I said before, I am not a pirate.

1968-2002 Robert 'HoseWater" Lloyd
#4 by Charles
2002-05-17 17:56:03
www.bluh.org
The reason idea men need other skills, is because everyone has ideas.  So, there is absolutely no need for someone with just ideas.  

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wants to make a game, who doesn't have an idea.  Not to mention that idea men who don't understand at least one or more aspects of creating games won't have a realistic grasp on what can and can't be done.  How on earth are they supposed to come up with a good idea and manage a team if they don't know what it takes to implement that idea?

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

Bailey:  Beep beep, motherfucker.
#5 by _Fury_
2002-05-17 18:03:42
ajhill@wi.rr.com
I'd love to make a game, but I don't have any ideas. Seriously.

I've got some very very good ideas, but they are all about implementation. I've wanted to make a game for years, and would do it in my spare time - except I can't think of a single game to make. If I knew what the game was, I'd be able to figure out how to make it. That's what I do. I'm very good at it, and get paid very well to do it. But thinking of what to make? In a sea of endless possiblities? I can't do it.

Have a gator today
#6 by Hugin
2002-05-17 18:05:34
lmccain@nber.org
Well, let's put it this way Nova.  I'd love it tremendously if a bright 15 year old boy, or better yet girl, with no programing skills but a love of video games set next to Peter Molyneux at all times and had the power to look over his shoulder and say "Um..lame.  Um...why should I care about that. Um..that's boring. Well, okay, that's cool, but it shouldn't represent 75 percent of what the game is about."

When I look at shelves of videogames, and when I play videogames, when I read about the antics of videogame companies, whether they be developers or publishers or hardware vendors, what I see is tons of amazing technical acumen undermined or rendered irrelevant by bad ideas.
#7 by HoseWater
2002-05-17 18:05:38
barneyque@hotmail.com
The hard part of being the idea man, and founder of a project, is going to be finding someone who does have skills, but would rather make your idea than their own.

In the real world, idea people tend to be senior experienced people who used to have some other skill, and rose up to the position rather than just coming out of nowhere, and saying, I'm the boss, who wants to work for nothing on my project, instead of being the boss and working on their own project.

You have no carrot.


Having said that, so what, lets see what comes of it, give it your best shot. A cool game might come out the other end.

1968-2002 Robert 'HoseWater" Lloyd
#8 by Charles
2002-05-17 18:06:18
www.bluh.org
But would you want someone who knew nothing about the process leading you, managing you, telling you what to do?

Bailey:  Beep beep, motherfucker.
#9 by HoseWater
2002-05-17 18:07:54
barneyque@hotmail.com
_Fury_, perhaps you should have a look at Martins document, perhaps you guys need to get together.

1968-2002 Robert 'HoseWater" Lloyd
#10 by LPMiller
2002-05-17 18:08:15
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
You just described all of corporate america.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#11 by Hugin
2002-05-17 18:11:25
lmccain@nber.org
Basides, Martin isn't even describing a situation wherein the idea man knows utterly nothing.
#12 by Leslie Nassar
2002-05-17 18:17:47
http://departmentofinternets.com
The submission bin is the new thread comment.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#13 by Matthew Gallant
2002-05-17 18:19:50
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
BOOKS IN GAMES ARE LAME!
BOOKS IN GAMES GO AWAY!
BOOKS IN GAMES LOOK LIKE CRAP!

Marketing is a crutch for mediocrity and a handicap to excellence.
#14 by Ashiran
2002-05-17 18:20:39
No. For reasons stated in that other topic about this.

Which brings up the question, how did this topic make it out of the Bin? Gnomes? Crocs? Miniature Baileytrons? The mind boggles.

"...so I can send him a dead dog with the word "YOU" taped to its face." - Cliff Yablonski
#15 by "rei"
2002-05-17 18:21:32
what happened to gaminggroove?
#16 by Ashiran
2002-05-17 18:22:36
Hijack.
A stupid game that is way to hard.

"...so I can send him a dead dog with the word "YOU" taped to its face." - Cliff Yablonski
#17 by Creole Ned
2002-05-17 18:26:04
I shall re-submit my topic in a petty act of...um...pettiness!!

I found a new friend underneath my pillow.
#18 by jjz
2002-05-17 18:31:14
Hey, that's just a remake of one of the best games ever.  Arcade Volleyball!  http://home.swipnet.se/~w-27224/games/av.htm
#19 by Ashiran
2002-05-17 18:39:59
Well I made it to the black slimemaster. So I guess it's not that hard after all (even though the slimemaster has a mean serve).

"...so I can send him a dead dog with the word "YOU" taped to its face." - Cliff Yablonski
#20 by "Anonymous"
2002-05-17 18:51:56
Hey, that's just a remake of one of the best games ever.


All games are just a remake of pong.
#21 by Xero
2002-05-17 18:57:36
http://novakometa.blogspot.com/
The only Mod i've ever enjoyed went reatail and that was Tac Ops, the only problem with the current version of the game is that they went gold much too soon and are still releasing patches to solve skin and game balancing problems.

Game kicks ass though especially on a TOST server with the new M60 mod fix which adds the Tear Gas grenade and makes the M60 prohibitively expensive.

"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
-Ornette Coleman
#22 by Bailey
2002-05-17 19:49:15
All topic submission are petty.

Life without shame.
#23 by TrodKnee
2002-05-17 20:08:18
trodknee@planetunreal.com http://www.planetunreal.com/unrealgod
The best mod ever made? It was called Siege, and you probably never played it. Not too suprisingly, it was created by some of the designers for the game it was based upon(Hexen2). All you crappers who get enjoyment out of the strategic potential of SOF Infliltration, well Siege had it times three.

Other than that, the majority of mod makers and idea men have one simple objective in mind...'making it' into the gaming industry. A 'Project Lead' can play a very important role in mod development without having any of the skills neccessary to actually make the mod itself. They do need skills in people management, scheduling, marketing, etc. They should also be well spoken/written, able to make and maintain contacts in the gaming community, and if they do have an 'idea' they should be able to convey it clearly with solid design docs, storyboarding, etc.

Of course, 99% of the "I have a great idea for a mod who want to make my mod for me?" dweebs possess none of those skills either. But I can't help but think that a mod that does have a Project Lead with those skills would have a much better chance for success then a schmuck Jack of all Trades one man team like myself...

In this era of cookie-cutter gaming, however, all it really takes is some geek to post on some messageboard "I'm making a mod it's gonna be the greatest it combines the best of StarWars, the Lord of the Rings, and Matrix into a team based tactical strategic simulation with realistic weaponry and vehicles!". Casting a net like that you are bound to catch plenty of flounders. Use the right keywords and you may actually get some people with talent to join your team just because they share the same interests and have no ideas of their own or any desire to lead themselves. Add a crappy website and plenty of hype directed at the games fanboy community sites and suddenly you have a highly anticipated mod that the mindless hoards can't wait to get their hands on. After all that, the actual making of the mod becomes almost irrelevent...

God, meet your robot replacement...
#24 by Shadarr
2002-05-17 20:13:07
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
All games are not remakes of pong, but this one obviously is.
#25 by HoseWater
2002-05-17 20:14:48
barneyque@hotmail.com
Name a game that is not?

1968-2002 Robert 'HoseWater" Lloyd
#26 by "FunkyMonkey"
2002-05-17 20:41:25
Hi! I'm making a mod but I don't have any talent, just an idea. Care to join my team?


No Mister Romero, I'm sorry, but I cannot in good faith join your team.
#27 by LPMiller
2002-05-17 20:43:51
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Name a game that is not?


Tennis. No wait....yeah, tennis.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#28 by Shadarr
2002-05-17 20:50:03
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Name a game that is not?


Empire.  No bouncing balls to be seen.  For that matter, any text adventure game or the PIGs which are their descendents.
#29 by Terata
2002-05-17 21:38:06
The best mod ever made? It was called Siege, and you probably never played it.


I worked on the map for it, though didn't do the initial design.  Ugly looking, really plain level, but considering how much STUFF it had in it it's a miracle it even ran as well as it did, and maintaining it though the gameplay changes was a nightmare.  You wouldn't believe the sheer mess of entities in that thing...
#30 by chris
2002-05-17 21:45:55
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.cerebraldebris.com
Anyone who claims Romero has no talent seems to have missed the part where he designed like all of the best levels for Quake.

-chris
#31 by InsideWhat'sLeft Behind
2002-05-17 21:48:12
[...] bright 15 year old boy, or better yet girl [...]


Well hey, that's an oxymoron right there!

"It goes without saying that technical proficiency should be the first acquistion of a student who would be a fine pianist." - Sergei Rachmaninov
#32 by Funkdrunk
2002-05-17 21:52:40
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
chris

Anyone who claims Romero has no talent seems to have missed the part where he designed like all of the best levels for Quake.


When did you forget that you're only as good as your last success/failure?

Many of the crappers haven't.

Funk
#33 by Bailey
2002-05-17 21:59:48
Dear Funkdrunk,

Since your last post was kinda boring and directed at the community, I'm downgrading my opinion of you respectively. I hope to re-evaluate you a position of less disregard in the future.

Sincerely,
A Magnificient Bastard

Life without shame.
#34 by Funkdrunk
2002-05-17 22:02:54
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
Bailey

Since your last post was kinda boring and directed at the community, I'm downgrading my opinion of you respectively. I hope to re-evaluate you a position of less disregard in the future.


Ok.  In the future when I'm trying to be sarcastic, I'll be better at it.  Sorry.

Funk.
#35 by Bailey
2002-05-17 22:06:02
Needs work, but you're getting a gold star for effort.

Life without shame.
#36 by Funkdrunk
2002-05-17 22:07:50
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
Bailey

Needs work, but you're getting a gold star for effort.


I'm trying dammit.  Being funny or sarcastic isn't in my nature.

Cut me a little slack here....

Funk.
#37 by Sgt Hulka
2002-05-17 22:23:54
Romero and McGee were responsible for a lot of the cool factor in Quake.  Too bad they were kicked out of id.  Carmack can bake a mean cake, but he has trouble keeping the icing kings in his shop.

....Don't be Left with the chimps. Evolve with us...
#38 by crash
2002-05-17 22:51:59
shaithis:

Anyone who claims Romero has no talent seems to have missed the part where he designed like all of the best levels for Quake.

uh. quake? doom, for sure. doom 2, not so sure. quake? other than dm3...? hm. hmmmmmm.

just... weary.
#39 by Bailey
2002-05-17 23:15:27
Funkdrunk

We run a tight operation of snide commentary and witty quips around here mister, so you'd better shape up or ship out!

Now... bring on the dancing bears! By which I mean boxing retards! By which I mean startup mod teams!

Life without shame.
#40 by Creole Ned
2002-05-17 23:20:35
I've got your witty quip right here. *grabs crotch*

How was that?

On Romero: pretty good level designer, from what I gather (and have seen in some of the id games) but obviously not a great manager. Anyone know what part he played in that pizza delivery game his new company developed for handhelds? Was he the...um..."idea man"?

I found a new friend underneath my pillow.
#41 by Chris Johnson
2002-05-17 23:42:05
I've got your witty quip right here. *grabs crotch*


Well seeing how a quip is usually short, and fairly forgetful, I'd say you speak the truth! Haw!

I got yer witty long, involved and utterly unforgettable story right here.  *grabs crotch*

"My main objective is to be professional but to kill him.  That's what it comes to. He should want to kill me because I want to kill him. But I still love him."  -Mike Tyson, waxing philosophic about Lennox Lewis.
#42 by crash
2002-05-17 23:46:58
there is entirely too much crotch-grabbing going on here.

just... weary.
#43 by Chris Johnson
2002-05-17 23:48:11
Anyone know what part he played in that pizza delivery game his new company developed for handhelds? Was he the...um..."idea man"?


Oh yeah... I mean to answer this in 41, but I got too busy being witty and all.  Ahem.

as far as I could tell from interviews and such, most of the general idea, humor, etc was Tom Hall.  It certainly fits his style.

And FWIW, Quake does very little for me at this point.  Doom and Doom2 were far better.  I personally think the amazing love for Quake is the result of some skewed memory of things past as flawless.  Quake itself was rather, I dunno, bland after all was said and done.  What made Quake go over the top was the fact that it was the only game in town multiplayer-wise for quite a while, technology leaps forward, and its mods.  I personally think Quake itself, as a self-contained game was rather.... meh. *shrug*

"My main objective is to be professional but to kill him.  That's what it comes to. He should want to kill me because I want to kill him. But I still love him."  -Mike Tyson, waxing philosophic about Lennox Lewis.
#44 by bago
2002-05-17 23:49:11
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Ack! it's anecdotal quips flying fast and furios! Somebody Gimme some ScotchGuard! And A good Shift Key!

iamelectro
#45 by sentinel
2002-05-17 23:56:19
Actually, I'd love to code a mod but have no idea whatsoever what would be a cool modification to a game. So if I'd run into some ideas dude I would probably do the code. Problem is, I never see cool projects that need programming.
#46 by HoseWater
2002-05-18 00:01:28
barneyque@hotmail.com
Martin, Sentinel

Sentinel, Martin


There, so where's my cool game.  *snap snap*

1968-2002 Robert 'HoseWater" Lloyd
#47 by Creole Ned
2002-05-18 00:10:30
I remember oohing and aahing over Quake's architecture and lighting on my shiny new Monster 3D card but by the start of the fourth episode, I'd gotten tired of the "step into room, trigger switch that slides up wall and/or teleports monsters in behind you" shtick. I slogged through the last episode but finishing the game was more a relief than anything at that point.

Still, there's no denying the huge impact the game had on PC gaming in general. And like I said, I loved the architecture and lighting. It's still a fun, creepy environment, if somewhat polygon-deprived by today's standards. :)

This is all in reference to single player, of course

I found a new friend underneath my pillow.
#48 by Bailey
2002-05-18 00:18:11
crash

Feeling left out?

Life without shame.
#49 by bago
2002-05-18 00:23:04
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
I spoiled the single player experience by playing the leaked beta, and wondering what the deal was with that big tenatcled thing you couldnt kill.

iamelectro
#50 by crash
2002-05-18 01:09:28
left out of what, Bailey?

just... weary.
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