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The demise of the Xbox
April 26th 2002, 13:02 CEST by Jamiekin

The Xbox is getting outsold by PSOne in Japan. It has had to be reduced in cost by 40% in Europe and Australia to remain competitive, only to have Nintendo cut the Gamecube launch price even lower (in Europe). And now, Seamus Blackley, the co-creator of the Xbox has resigned. Can the Xbox make a triumphant U-turn ? What would it take ? Is there room for a third console ? Surely this is the beginning of the end the Xbox.. What else could have they done different, other than have more games at release, and smaller controllers ?

Seamus Blackley Q&A
Xbox Co-Creator Resigns to Start New Venture
Nintendo price cut
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: The demise of the Xbox

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#1 by jafd
2002-04-26 13:12:43
Can the Xbox make a triumphant U-turn ? What would it take ?

Just give me a free Xbox when I buy two games for it. That'll do.

Also, a PC game emulator. How hard could that be?

Meanwhile, it doesn't matter much to most of us how well the Xbox does; because it only translates into the XierBox coming out a year sooner or a year later. Microsoft isn't going to pull out of the market for years and years and years, even if the thing really, really tanks.

Okay, EOD. Who the fuck voted for this topic? How the hell am I going to make a post of any reasonable length with only a tired old saw like this to work on? Bah. Bah!

This is no time for a slow PC!
#2 by "flamethrower"
2002-04-26 13:13:09
who is the second post?
#3 by "flamethrower"
2002-04-26 13:13:31
THIRD!! (place for Xbox)
#4 by Ashiran
2002-04-26 13:21:07
The Xbox just bombed everywhere outside the US for reason well known and discussed.
EOD indeed.

Civilized barcode, quick id.
#5 by Bailey
2002-04-26 14:02:19
So... hows about them Nicks?

Drinking is fun! It makes me feel horrible and sexy!
#6 by Martin
2002-04-26 14:21:37
http://www.mocol.nu
Yours or jafd's?

-- Martin
Business as usual.
#7 by Duality
2002-04-26 14:38:27
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
I thought this looked like an interesting read.  It apparently came out the same time Seamus resigned.  Its about all of the development of the Xbox.  Honestly, how many companies can you say have a console development life interesting enough to be written about?  It supposedly gets intriguingly close inside of Microsoft.

You're the new nazis.
#8 by Ellusion
2002-04-26 14:59:41
per.nyhaug@intellinet.no www.nyhaug.com
If there was any games on the Xbox worth playing, they might shift a few units. So far my box have been turned on and off one time in it's entire lifetime - to play through Halo in one sitting.

Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics - Even if you win, you're still retarded.
#9 by mixuk
2002-04-26 15:08:15
I enjoyed Genma Onimusha and DOA3 (loads 'o fun w/ 4 players). There are other games than Halo, just give them a chance. Also I hear that Gun Valkyrie & Jet Set Radio are nice games too.
#10 by Warren Marshall
2002-04-26 15:13:14
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Halo was worth playing.

Fusion Frenzy is fun if you've got a few people to play with.

Jet Set Radio is OK ... I stopped playing now, but I might pick it up later.

SpiderMan is getting better ... the jury is still out, but it MIGHT be OK.


The system really needs some blockbuster games.  Everytime I go into EB, the XBox rack is disappointing.

But then, so was the PS2 rack for the longest time.  And now look at it ...

WoT?
#11 by godZero
2002-04-26 15:17:36
godzero@gmx.de
Answer to all questions in the main post:     Who The Fuck Cares?

Now seriously, the reasons it'll die:

1. it comes from Microsoft. People don't trust MS being able to produce anything that works without BSOD
2. It was too expensive in the beginning, now it's too late with recent price cuts
3. too few, too expensive games
4. crappy controller
5. it is a PC
6. it's too big and too ugly
7. the competition consists of Sony and Nintendo, so it's hopeless
8. people hate MS because of the past
etc

Chop Suey-cide!!!
#12 by "flamethrower"
2002-04-26 15:19:00
Oh, the X-Box has a chance, if MS sticks with it.


Street Gotham, Halo Franchise, Grand Thefts, Buffy and etcs., New Doom, New Quake, New Unreals.

The X-Box isn't dead, it's was delivered stillborn, not yet alive. But it might spring into life. I think it will.

But to buy one now, you have to be overrich or retarded.
#13 by godZero
2002-04-26 15:26:56
godzero@gmx.de
new Unreal and relatives will all run on PS2. Doom and Quake will run on the PC as well. GTA is primarely a PC game, too. So...they can make a set-top box out of it, than it might find some customers.

Chop Suey-cide!!!
#14 by Ellusion
2002-04-26 15:34:59
per.nyhaug@intellinet.no www.nyhaug.com
Not overly a fan of consoles in the first place, but it all depends on the games though. The Xbox doesnt have more than one "above average" game to show for it so far (and still proclaiming "200 games available" in the marketing over here). The rebate of 2 new games might make me check out some of the others though - games I'd normally be extremely wary to fork out for on a whim.

It won't die though - the people wanting it to are pretty naive. It probably just needs a year or two of maturing like the PS2. The current state is sad nevertheless, and the only light in the tunnel for me atleast is the upcoming Bioware SW rpg Knights of the old Republic.

What really kills consoles, or the competition between them though, is the blasted multi-platform releases. I remember getting a N64 just to play that Zelda game, and likewise bought a PS2 to play SSX...as well as I admit to forking out for an Xbox just to play Halo. It seems the recent game releases are all aiming to please everyone, and then why bother getting any of the consoles, or even own two?

"Resident Evil 17 - now available for the PC, Mac, Xbox, PS2, PSOne, N64, GBA, Palm III, iPod, your cellophone, and that little beeping tamagotchi keyring you bought!"

Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics - Even if you win, you're still retarded.
#15 by godZero
2002-04-26 15:45:20
godzero@gmx.de
"Resident Evil 17 - now available for the PC, Mac, Xbox, PS2, PSOne, N64, GBA, Palm III, iPod, your cellophone, and that little beeping tamagotchi keyring you bought!"

That's _exactly_ the way it should be.

Chop Suey-cide!!!
#16 by EvilAsh
2002-04-26 15:50:55
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
Xbox not dead but sure as hell ain't alive.



I forecasted the failure of Xbox just after reading how it handled usb.

USb on PS2 is perfect. You can use any USb Device Ie Mouse joystick or keyboard. Plug it in it works. That's right I could take a Razer Boomslang plug it in to the ps2 and Play Q3 with it.

With the Xbox They have usb.. but its not electronically the same. So All those available input controllers don't work. Because Ms wants to control everything. And there lies that philisophy they have.

That and the LAck of games..= Death knell. PS2 has to much of a head start now. And yes the games were not that great to begin with.. but Boy have they improved a great deal in the second year. And when your joe gamer  walks into a store and looks at the wall of games. The choice is easy.

On 2002-04-18 04:47:00  Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me."
#17 by Warren Marshall
2002-04-26 15:55:05
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
How many people are plugging mice into their PS2's?  Do you need 2 hands to count them?

People forget that the PS2 was dismal at first as well.  Bad launch, no games, etc.  It took a good year before it became a decent system, and there was a LOT of the same bitching about it.  Go figure.

WoT?
#18 by "flamethrower"
2002-04-26 15:56:10
new Unreal and relatives will all run on PS2. Doom and Quake will run on the PC as well.


Given my PS/2 fucking fails to handle NOLF or Max Payne or Deus Ex (shit framerates and/or shit low-detail graphics), given the only reason it handles GTA3 is the shit graphics (lots of them, but how flat?), given the only reason it handles Red Faction is shit graphics (very plain, low detail, deformable is nice 'course), how great are these next generation games going to look?

The X-BOX does have the advatage of being signifigantly more powerful. For first-person games, the X-Box has better graphics. More polys. More textures.


That HAS to be good for it.
#19 by InsideWhat'sLeft Behind
2002-04-26 15:57:12
OTOH, did it have much of a competing platform at the same time? Xbox has 2, has it not?

"It goes without saying that technical proficiency should be the first acquistion of a student who would be a fine pianist." - Sergei Rachmaninov
#20 by EvilAsh
2002-04-26 15:57:53
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
Many people don;t realize they can now.. But once PS2 goes online.. I guarantee you Alot of people will be happy as pigs in shit that they can. And that they have the choices of whatever controllers they want.

Instead of being limited to only what MS allows to you to purchase.

On 2002-04-18 04:47:00  Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me."
#21 by EvilAsh
2002-04-26 15:59:18
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
Shit Graphics? yeah this guy is one bright individual.

On 2002-04-18 04:47:00  Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me."
#22 by Warren Marshall
2002-04-26 16:10:31
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Oh shit, the troll wars have begun.

WoT?
#23 by Bailey
2002-04-26 16:12:53
#11 godzero

MS is teh evel, bluh, loonix*

Dun-da-na-nah! It's Sweeping Generalizations Man! Able to leap walls of logic in a single bound! Faster than a rational response! Cognizant enough to speak for all of mankind so you don't have to!

* summarized for brevity/ sanity's sake

Drinking is fun! It makes me feel horrible and sexy!
#24 by godZero
2002-04-26 16:16:24
godzero@gmx.de
XBox is just a little bit more powerful than PS2. Not "significantly". Either that, or I have to visit an ophtamologist...

PS2 was dismal at first, but it was a HUGE leap forward in terms of power and technology. XBox is not.

Chop Suey-cide!!!
#25 by Warren Marshall
2002-04-26 16:18:23
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
godZero
XBox is just a little bit more powerful than PS2.

Holy hell.

WoT?
#26 by godZero
2002-04-26 16:19:22
godzero@gmx.de
Bailey, I honestly don't give a shit about consoles of any kind. Or your opinion. I'm just saying what I see. The nubers prove me right. So  ****  ***.

Chop Suey-cide!!!
#27 by Post-It
2002-04-26 16:24:41
keithlee@speakeasy.net
So I know we blame school shootings here in the states on video games, but what about ones in Germany? 18 people dead so far, 6 injured, shoooters still in the school. Dressed all in black/trench coats, basically Matrix-style.

So, with Germany's strict anti-violence-in-games laws, will games but free from blame here? Will the Matrix, moveis, TV, copycating be blamed? Or will people just be like, Hey those kids were pretty messed up in the head, and had ignorant parents.

Bad game designs are the new crates
-Greg
#28 by Greg
2002-04-26 16:24:43
EvilAsh:

With the Xbox They have usb.. but its not electronically the same. So All those available input controllers don't work. Because Ms wants to control everything. And there lies that philisophy they have.

Did you ever figure that USB is built into the OS they use, but that allowing any old USB device to connect could wreak havok on the system? Mice are one thing, but what if I plugged in my Zip drive? My Korg 4-track?

It was done to prevent the user from plugging in stuff that wouldn't work. It wasn't about control. It was about CYA.

Greg

-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having!
#29 by Hugin
2002-04-26 16:26:07
lmccain@nber.org
I don't think the XBox is doomed to failure, at least not in the US. The games will come eventually.  I do think it's dead in Japan and likely to stay dead.  Europe, who knows.  

What strikes me is how poorly XBox is performing in a period where Gamecube is practically lying down and saying "Leapfrog me, please!"  If Nintendo comes out with one mega hit franchise game, or two-three solid franchise games (Zelda, Mario, Metroid, blah blah)....

It's not that I think the Xbox is bad (though it's too damn big, I would have to make significant changes to my livingroom electronics setup to fit it in at this point), but it hardly seems like Microsoft is trying. Consoles aren't about power (which it has).  Consoles are about games.  XBox supposedly is a much easier development environment than PS2, and goodness knows MS has the money and the lack of ethics to make deals...so why aren't they using thier dark powers to produce some games?  Yes, I recognize all consoles launch weakly, and that we were saying the same thing about PS2 a year ago.  

But MS made it's bed.  They knew they'd have the GC and PS2 in play when they finally came to market, they can't afford to say "well, you know, next year we'll rock."  Bzzt.  Too late, I'm locked in already.  I got the PS2, I'm sitting on a pile of game for it, I'm pretty happy, and if Nintendo gets the franchise games out in time for Christmas, you're screwed, because I'm going to buy a GC, and there's no way in hell I'll do more than two consoles per generation, hell, I'm loathe to give up my Dreamcast yet.

I assume that XBox4 will be president of the United States and I'll pay my taxes to it and all that, and I assume MS will deal with Sony by buying it outright or invading all of Japan and taking it over with their private mercenary Redmond Defense Army or something.
#30 by EvilAsh
2002-04-26 17:00:16
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
CYA ...  Then why does the PS2 allow USb true usb devices to work?

and why haven't we heard Testimony after testimony about a consumer who connected his Zip drive to his ps2 and watched his ps2 explode in a fit of incompatibility. That's if we are to believe that this would actually happen.

Xbox made a big deal that they had usb support.. Then it was revealed that it was not True usb support. STUPID.

On 2002-04-18 04:47:00  Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me."
#31 by Greg
2002-04-26 17:09:27
EvilAsh:

So Microsoft has to do everything that Sony does? And how often have you hooked up a mouse to your PS2?

Always use this corollary when explaining things: people are stupid. CYA means not having to deal with some dumbass who thought they could plug in the Zip drive, but found out it didnt work.

It saves them tech-support costs while not doing anything to hurt the system. (in everyone's eyes except yours)

Greg

-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having!
#32 by EvilAsh
2002-04-26 17:13:52
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
I have connected over 20 different usb mice to the PS2. This was while working at a Gaming store. Just to prove I could and that it worked while playing games that supported the mouse.

As to MS doing what Sony did.. its called settting a standard and at least matching the standard.
They didn't and they definitely were not thinking it terms in CYA.  Don't be so niave.

On 2002-04-18 04:47:00  Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me."
#33 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-26 17:22:48
http://departmentofinternets.com
So I know we blame school shootings here in the states on video games, but what about ones in Germany?

According to CNN the kid is (was) a professional gamer.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#34 by BobJustBob
2002-04-26 17:23:06
Hey, this guest star on The Practice is the doctor from Enterprise!

OT: Everyone saying the XBox will fail is completely ignorant of history. Everyone says the GC will fail, everyone said the PS2 would fail, and the PS too. You just support the console with the most games, even if those games fall technically further and further behind everything else that's out there. Once the game library builds up, as does the library of exclusives, you'll be saying "Why should I buy a PS3 when all the great games are already out on XBox?"

And anyone who underestimates the XBox's graphics and/or power, go here and check out shots of Sega GT 2002. Sweet.
#35 by EvilAsh
2002-04-26 17:28:34
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
I don't underestimate the power of my pc. But I didn't get a pc to be my console system.

And folks seem to understestimate the power of a huge library of titles. One game can't save a system especially Halo. Especially when that same title is coming out for the pc.

Exclusive titles are what Save Systems and at this moment And for the next foreseable future Xbox definitely doesn't have enough exclusive Triple-aa Content.

On 2002-04-18 04:47:00  Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me."
#36 by Greg
2002-04-26 17:34:22
EvilAsh:

Not to be a pain, but then why doesn't the GameCube use USB connectors. After all, Sony set the standard, why shouldn't everyone follow?

Greg

-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having!
#37 by Bailey
2002-04-26 17:37:30
godzero

Bailey, I honestly don't give a shit about consoles of any kind. Or your opinion.

Gracious me. I do declare. (fanning at throat with a lacey hankie) Why I never!

I'm just saying what I see. The nubers prove me right.

Right. Fuck statistics, fuck polling, fuck facts. You've looked at a car and you knew how it worked, so you must be able to talk to six of your friends on a friday night, playing the PS2 in your rumpus room, drinking some beer you stole from dad, and know what you're talking about on a global scale. You're a certified scientician presenting confirmed factoids.

Woe is me, I am undone! Oh happy nuber, this is thy sheath!

So  ****  ***.

You accidentally spilt stars all over "lwuv you".

Drinking is fun! It makes me feel horrible and sexy!
#38 by EvilAsh
2002-04-26 17:37:46
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
Why? Because GAmecube was aimed purely at the video gamer that's why. And Everyone knows this ,except you.

On 2002-04-18 04:47:00  Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me."
#39 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-26 17:38:42
http://departmentofinternets.com
Everyone saying the XBox will fail is completely ignorant of history. Everyone says the GC will fail, everyone said the PS2 would fail, and the PS too.

So let us embrace history.  You say everyone said the PS2 would fail, so how many units had they sold six months after release?  IIRC, the PS2 had hit 1.2 million units in North America alone after the first two months of release.  God knows how many more in Japan.  5 million PS2s were sold during Christmas 2001 alone.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#40 by Post-It
2002-04-26 17:40:55
keithlee@speakeasy.net
According to CNN the kid is (was) a professional gamer.


If this is true. it's going to suck to be a Gamer in Germany. hard.

Bad game designs are the new crates
-Greg
#41 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-26 17:41:57
http://departmentofinternets.com
And for the record, I love the X-Box.  The problem as I see it is the X-Box is doomed without support from Japanese developers.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#42 by Greg
2002-04-26 17:45:40
EvilAsh:

And the XBox wasn't? I'm not talking about Bill Gates and his cronies at the top, with their overall plan for it, but the people in the trenches who actually came up with the idea for the system, like Blackley and Bachus and Allard. Their vision for the box had everything to do with games, and nothing to do with anything else.

Greg

-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having!
#43 by Hugin
2002-04-26 17:49:28
lmccain@nber.org
I don't remember many credible people saying the GC would fail.  What I remember was people saying GC would be a niche player for kids, the fuzzy, safe, toy end of the market, what with Nintendo tending to stay away from mature content, and Pokemon and all.  I have no idea who you're talking about who said PS2 would be a failure, I'm sure someone did, but you make it sound like the conventional wisdom of the time, which it certainly was not.  

People predicted PS would fail because Sony had no experience in the area aside from thier experience making various boxes that sit in your living room that run on electricity, they didn't make games, they didn't make game hardware, and they didn't make OS's to run/develop games on. MS does make/publish games, the XBox is running on essentially the same PC hardware they stake the rest of thier success on, they even have a little sucess with set top boxes, etc etc.  I mean, there are reasons to question how smart it was for MS to get into this game, but they're not as far out of left field as Sony was at the equivalent time.
#44 by Darkseid-D
2002-04-26 17:52:55
rogerboal@hotmail.com
hmm, Lisa `left eye` Lopez died in a car wreck, shame, talented and very easy on the eyes.


Xbox released in the states $300, released in the uk 300, or if you will $420, DO the maths and see why it tanked.


Xbox is based on a windows 2000 Core, it has a hard drive, something the ps2 lacks, and that is precisely why MS dont want you plugging standard usb shit into it.


well along with them wanting to expand it into a `homestation` type unit.....


Ds

Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
#45 by LPMiller
2002-04-26 17:53:24
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Let me ask anyone who might know....Was Golden sun made by the Shining in the Dark/Shining Force/Shining in the Holy Ark guys?  I'm loving it so far, and I loved those games - and they seem very similiar in style.

Will warez for food.
#46 by Hugin
2002-04-26 18:00:19
lmccain@nber.org
Sigh.  I'm really kind of bummed out about Lisa Lopes (s, not z).  I went to church with her when I was a kid.  We had Sunday school together and all that.  We weren't close friends or anything, but.  She was a wild, energetic kid back then.  Got into trouble, had a smart mouth.  But basically good, and not "look at me, look at me!" the way some people who wind up being performers are.
#47 by EvilAsh
2002-04-26 18:02:49
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
Its based a Wink2 highly modified Core. They don't want usb because they want to make money on the controllers big time. Everyone knows that the margins on optional items are the greatest. They didn't allo usb out of a  CYA or a Fear of compatibility.

On 2002-04-18 04:47:00  Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me."
#48 by LPMiller
2002-04-26 18:04:19
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
You use the term Everyone Knows so often, and yet if Everyone did know, we wouldn't be discussing this or any other topic. Everyone knows that.

Will warez for food.
#49 by "hoodoo"
2002-04-26 18:06:02
"People forget that the PS2 was dismal at first as well.  Bad launch, no games, etc.  It took a good year before it became a decent system, and there was a LOT of the same bitching about it."

Maybe, but it sold a helluva lot better than the Xbox has. Decent or not, the Xbox is getting killed. That never happened to the PS2.

Does Epic have some Xbox games in the work or something? It's clear that the Xbox is a major disappointment right now.
#50 by Ergo
2002-04-26 18:07:38
#47

So? This has been a standard procedure for years. Just because the PS2 has a standard USB port dioesn't mean that everyone else is required to also.

"I want you to remember me just as I am...filled with murderous rage!" --Homer Simpson
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