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Why MMORPG item trading is not bad
April 18th 2002, 23:01 CEST by piramida

It is a generally accepted fact among MMORPG players that trading game items for real money is a Bad Thing. Most of the time, however, the reasoning beyond that statement is far from perfect. I would really love to hear PC elder's view on this subject.

MMORPG worlds, naturally, spawn item trading marketplaces, with their own unstable economies, akin to economies of third-world countries. Black markets of hard currency do exist in both and there's nothing that could be done to stop it, probably besides putting everyone in a separate prison cell (prohibiting item exchange at all). Abstracting from the gameplay itself, each MMORPG has thousands of people daily creating items which are demanded by thousands of other people. Instability (dependance on hacks, patches, server glitches, etc) makes the black hard currency market unevitable evil. No matter how hard the government would try to ban the very notion of dollar, the dollar is not going anywhere. In MMORPGs, it's even worse - moment when the item changes hands is not immediately tied to the moment cash changes hands, which makes tracking and banning item sales a laughably impossible task. But I'll skip the details of the process and discussion of possible fraud, since I believe this to be well known to those who've read past the first sentence. Let's just say that despite everything, item trade is booming, just visit your favourite auction site (or even the "slimy" Player Auctions) and do a few searches - tens of thousands of real dollars are exchaning hands every day.

Let's get straight to the moral and the question of this text: why are MMORPG item sales bad? Common answers are:

1. Because EULA prohibits it.
        Yeah... right. Next.

2. Because it gives hackers and fraudulent players a better incentive for doing all the Bad Things, perverting the intention of the original game and making the game world an unhappy greed-infested place without love.
        The universal answer, which always made me scream "bullshit". For most players, the incentive of having the uberitem in the game far outweights the possible gain of twenty dollars. Hacks have nothing to do with item trading - though used by traders wherever possible, it's just a tool rather than direct result of item trades. Even if items would have no value whatsoever people would be looking for a way to cheat the game, just do a research on popularity of cheating in single-player games. If there are loopholes, people would find them sooner or later, if there are people to fool, they will be fooled, and that's human nature.

3. Because game companies feel troubled that item losses caused by bugs in their software, networking glitches and people's stupidity can now be measured in dollars, which makes it a whole different situation requiring commercial security and tons of legal mumbo-jumbo.
        Most if not every MMORPG service provider states that everything contained on their server, including items, accounts and characters, always remains their property. I don't see how any player's claim could be ever tested in court, if they had never owned any of their items in the first place, and were never promised any insurance for their items - but then, I'm no lawyer. It just seems very logical.

4. Because it is not morally right to gain advantage over other "honest" players using your real-world financial status.
        Everyone plays the game the way that gives him/her the most satisfaction, even if that does not meet other player's expectations - the same way playing 24/7 gives you an "advantage". Most casual players, who form the demand for purchasable game items, can not dedicate much time to playing. Why do they have to keep themselves from buying something that they'd never be able to find in their lifetime but Really Want to have? It's their problem that they did not receive the satisfaction of "honestly" obtaining that item.

Besides, if you have a well established account in EQ and want to switch to an account in AC, you have no other means but sell/buying or starting all over leaving an unused account behind. Not everyone enjoys tedious leveling, some may like the status in itself, like most of you would not like (warning: irrelevant car analogy ahead) to save money for another year just to switch your (hypothetical) Porshe for Ferrari, throwing the Porshe away since you don't like it anymore. I know, legally you never owned the EQ account, but I'm talking about the motivation, and why this form of cheating known as item trades would stay.

Most casual players I approached on the subject immediately responded "People who buy items are idiots, I would never buy a virtual item for real money", and the very same people would, when given an item of outstanding usefullness for just 10$, would say "Sure, 10$ is nothing really, and it'll help make my game more fun". Maybe other people simply have more money to spend on their golf^H^H^H^Hhobby?

No, I'm not talking directly out of my ass, I'm generalizing what I've seen and researched on the matter. Game item trades are not bad, there is supply and there is demand, they are not going anywhere no matter how hard game companies are banning them, so why does almost everyone think it's something abnormal like eating babies? Because the traded subject is virtual? But so is, say, visiting a museum.

What do You think, besides obvious response that author is a moron who can't speak english?
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Why MMORPG item trading is not bad

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#87 by piramida
2002-04-19 15:12:37
(90% is an out-of-the-ass number meaning everything not including some very rare and complicated fraud scenarios).

signatures are stupid.
#88 by PrfBrain
2002-04-19 15:14:42
brain@arn.net
That takes you out of the game/universe the company is trying to portray. Please insert thou Credit Card numbers now to trade for thee ringmail of enchanted dragonsnout. Me thinks not. Yes, you pay monthly to play this type of game but it's handled away from anything in game.

Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you.
#89 by piramida
2002-04-19 15:16:23
See link in post #9.

signatures are stupid.
#90 by Marsh Davies
2002-04-19 15:37:22
www.verbalchilli.com
Another warez thread... How did someone... I mean... Jesus.

-- ex Spatula Man --
#91 by Marsh Davies
2002-04-19 15:37:42
www.verbalchilli.com
*primal scream*

-- ex Spatula Man --
#92 by Quicken
2002-04-19 15:39:26
gdunn@backmeup.net.au
The reason item trading is cracked down on is simply a legal issue. Not a moral issue. Let's say that I created a new MMORPG called "World of Quicken" where characters could arange, through the game, an exchange of money for an item. Frank wants to sell his +2 calculator to Jane for $10 so they do it through the game with the $10 coming from Jane's credit card and put onto Frank's account while the item is automatically handed over. World of Quicken does not take a cut they simply make sure there's no fraud.

Now soon after the excange Jane's dies in a freak lag related accident. She sues the World of Quicken for the loss of use of an item which clearly she paid money for and World of Quicken is responsible for that loss and should compensate her the $10. World of Quicken defends itself saying it retains ownership of all items and characters and has full rights to do as it pleases and is sorry Jane's character died but is not going to reverse the event or pay $10.

In the courts it's not going to be a very clear case. By exchanging money Jane is purchasing "something" be it a service or item or some electronic transfer. World of Quicken clearly has some blame in her loosing that so more than likely the courts will ask for some sort of payout.

As a result all MMORPG don't allow item exchanges for real world money. Nor do they run on a system where you pay for each character created. Not even is there a payment based on actual play time but instead play a fixed rate per month.
#93 by LPMiller
2002-04-19 15:49:34
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Goddammit Bishop!!!


pant, pant.

PlanetCrap: Come for the Warez, stay for the pie.

Will warez for food.
#94 by devttys0
2002-04-19 16:15:43
http://www.planetcrap.com/
To prevent another warez thread, please print this out and use it as a handy pocket-reference.

Warez at the binary level:

Developer sweats and toils, finally the end product (simplified).

11001101

Publisher or developer try to protect their data. (Represented by brackets).

[11001101]

Application gets published. Dev is happy, publisher is happy (pending sales).

$6 dollar an hour copy duplication technician notices app, decides it would be great if his group did a 0-day crack for it.

The warez-monkeys give it a once over, tearing the protection off, and chunking it up into small net-friendly pieces.

11.r00, 00.r01, 11.r02, 01.rar --> Oh hey, yENC is out, let's use that! (Encoding scheme for idiots.)

(11001101).rar - yENC - part 1 of 23224, etc..

Various vagabonds 'courier' the data to FTP drops squirreled away in various places.

Group posts boast of their feat, releases software.

Developer goes bankrupt.

Developer plans to infiltrate warez group, making sure a few FED-friendly backdoors find their way into the apps the warez monkeys release. (My suggestion.)

Repeat.
#95 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-19 16:25:37
http://departmentofinternets.com
The reason item trading is cracked down on is simply a legal issue.  Not a moral issue.

The reason is that these farming, cheating jackasses are ruining the experience for other players.  The means to get rid of said jackasses is enforcing the EULA.

I don't see what the big deal is.  If one of those fucks was in a theatre disrupting a film -- talking on his cell, screaming out plot points before they happen, smoking -- he'd be on the street in no time, no EULA required.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#96 by "Anonymous"
2002-04-19 16:26:03
Quote:
[A-hooooo-ga! A-hooooo-ga!

All hands on deck!  Batten the hatches!

Tuck in those pajamas!


DIVE DIVE DIVE!!!!]




Heh heh-hhhh....  

Too bad you're not a battle-dwarf!    ;)




The Male Battle-:D
#97 by Greg
2002-04-19 16:31:50
Quicken,

The easiest way to deal with that scenario is for the company to say (in the EULA?) that whenever a transaction occurs over items (on eBay, for example), the money is not for the items, but for the service of the payee to deliver the item(s) to the person who paid. It is not their responsibility to make sure the transaction proceeds properly, so do so at your own risk.

Also, the game company probably has no knowledge there was even a transaction taking place. Why should they reimburse Jane for her $10 if they never knew? Besides, she is paying for the ability to play the game, not for the game to do what she wants. Sure, there are some expectations, and network traffic isn't totally in the control of the game company. In your example, I'd have the right to sue if I pull my network plug and my character dies, and I blame it on lag. There has to be some reasonable expectations in place. And it is reasonable that there will be lag.

MMORPGs would be better off if developers could eliminate farming.

Greg

-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having!
#98 by Bailey
2002-04-19 16:44:25
I think we need to hijack this thread into a discussion about how tediously unimpressive SoF2 MP test is coming across. Not just because, well, this discussion is over, but because I'm a student of the School of Immediate Gratification.

Yes, I really think we must.

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#99 by Marsh Davies
2002-04-19 16:53:30
www.verbalchilli.com
Not unless you bring back Mr Flatcuddles.

-- ex Spatula Man --
#100 by jafd
2002-04-19 16:54:42
MMORPGs would be better off if developers could eliminate farming.

Yes, well, too bad they cannot. Minimize it, sure, but that involves rather a great deal of evolution in game design; which I'm sure they'd rather not have to do, if they don't have to. Irregardless, unless they make all items nodrop and/or prevent any player from talking to anyone else... it'll happen. How can it not happen? The stuff has real world value, in that it takes time to get it, and time is money. Even children know this- obviously.

I still don't see the problem. All this talk about how the company doesn't want to deal with it... well, they don't have to. Slap a big "caveat emptor" sign on the front of the box, hang up the phone when people call up to complain, that's it, done. No more problem for the company. Just STFU and keep running the servers, thanks.

I look forward to the GIP that handles the issue with some more maturity than has been shown so far. As it is, if you criminalize farming, then only criminals will farm; which doesn't make for a very enjoyable gaming experience for legitimate users, thankyouverymuch.

What's worse? A group of well-behaved people playing the game responsibly, and funnelling all their loot back into the economy in some fashion, or, a group of loudmouthed cheating choad brats, using every dirty trick in the book to monopolize the environment, so they can build their seventh twink or trade lewt for cybersex? You tell me.

You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
#101 by Bailey
2002-04-19 17:27:19
Marsh Davies?

Not unless you bring back Mr Flatcuddles.

He's had his moment in the sun. Perhaps later on I'll employ Choo-Choo Bear.

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#102 by Bailey
2002-04-19 17:31:45
jafd

What's worse? A group of well-behaved people playing the game responsibly, and funnelling all their loot back into the economy in some fashion, or, a group of loudmouthed cheating choad brats, using every dirty trick in the book to monopolize the environment, so they can build their seventh twink or trade lewt for cybersex? You tell me.

Well, I'm pretty sure this question is rhetorical too, but I'm going to ignore that. The design flaw, as I see it, is making items more consequential than the avatar. If you could make character development more interesting and involved for the player, (i.e. a hell of a lot more intricate without rendering a character with one mis-applied skill point less than viable) you could fall back on a more mundane item system, therein removing it's value.

So really, all these GIP folk brought their troubles on themselves with crappy design logic that encourages farming.

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#103 by Hugin
2002-04-19 17:32:44
lmccain@nber.org
Am I to understand that the War of the Martins is over?
#104 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-19 17:34:09
http://departmentofinternets.com
Max Payne: Dimension Films and Abandon Entertainment have signed a deal to adapt the video game.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#105 by Martin
2002-04-19 17:42:46
http://www.mocol.nu
Marsh: Was that in response to my whining? If so, appreciated. 8)

On another note: I'm getting a bit tired of trolls, can't we upgrade to bugbears?

I'm off to spend my loot on ale and whores!

Have a great friday boys and girls.

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#106 by Marsh Davies
2002-04-19 17:48:51
www.verbalchilli.com
Yes. Morn was kind enough to furnish me with a new name... Marsh is what I get called by my RL friends, anyhow, for reasons that aren't very interesting.

Bailey
He's had his moment in the sun.

Sad... I think it really encapsulated so many facets of your character. Mostly the "soulless automaton" facets, but still.

-- ex Spatula Man --
#107 by Bailey
2002-04-19 17:56:13
How is a catskin rug a soulless automaton?

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#108 by Post-It
2002-04-19 17:59:22
keithlee@speakeasy.net
Leslie: Linkage?

Not suprised by that at all, Max has "adapt me for a screenplay" written all over it. I believe Scott and Petri both said it was purposely designed in this manner. Which makes perfect sense to me, why not, in creating a game, establish a brand in which to foster further financial success? Some people might not like sequals, but they make alot of sense finacially.

Side note to Scott: I'm a believer in marketing now. I went and bought "Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind" last week so maybe I could have an idea of what you guys are always talking about. Good book. Makes sense. I agree.

Florida is the New Nazi FuckMonkeys.
-LPMiller (warzed quote, used without permission)
#109 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-19 18:02:47
http://departmentofinternets.com
Leslie: Linkage?

No additional information, but go here for all your wacky entertainment needs.  They even have an FX shot of Yoda looking all bad-ass in Episode II.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#110 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-19 18:08:53
http://departmentofinternets.com
The only surprising thing to me is that it involves Dimension.  A game built around an effect from a Miramax flick being taken on board by Miramax to be turned into it's own film.  I love it.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#111 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-19 18:10:28
http://departmentofinternets.com
I'll text-mode bullet-time the first crying baby who points out my incorrect usage of "it's".  Bullet-time you good.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#112 by Marsh Davies
2002-04-19 18:14:33
www.verbalchilli.com
The rug's not the soulless automaton... just the idea of skinning a cute widdle puddy-cat is cruel, callous and perversely entertaining. All characteristics of yourself that we've grown to love and ph34r.

-- ex Spatula Man --
#113 by Marsh Davies
2002-04-19 18:39:39
www.verbalchilli.com
First impressions of sof2 are not good.

The servers don't list in order of ping. I also suspect the pings lie, since even servers listed with ping of about 40 are horribly laggy.

When I actually find a playable server, I'll tell you what I think of the game itself... :P

-- ex Spatula Man --
#114 by jafd
2002-04-19 19:02:35
So really, all these GIP folk brought their troubles on themselves with crappy design logic that encourages farming.

No doubt. However, every online world of this kind is going to have items that are more sought after than others, for whatever reason; and they will be peopled by folks with disparate amounts of time, money, luck, and knowledge.

And nature abhors a vacuum. /shrug. Oh well. What do I care? Black market, grey market, it's all the same, just a matter of intensity. "psst... how much for that tauntaun?"

You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
#115 by crash
2002-04-19 19:41:56
piramida:

They would seemingly never accept the right of power-gamers and traders to exist, and they can't understand how playing the game in a different way can be fun, fine, their right. Just tell me how it affects YOU and YOUR playing experience. Not that all people who are playing differently are idiots; it's not very productive. You never buy items, you get the most fun out of finding stuff yourself, why do you worry then? I fail to see.

for the record, i have zero problem with powergamers and (in-game for in-game items) traders. the game has been designed with them in mind, and--to a degree--caters no more to them than anyone else. also for the record, i've been known to "powergame" from time to time myself, mostly when i approach some in-game goal--usually a level where i can do something i couldn't before or have access to something i couldn't access. (90% of the time, though, i don't really pay attention to xp or leveling.)

how it affects me? it's very, very simple:

the game has been designed with the assumption that characters that have leveled to X, done Y, and gone to Z will have access to Uber Item A. if Uber Item As begin to flood the economy, this breaks the game. from that point on, developers have two options:

1. leave the game broken, and--most times--far too "easy".
2. change the game to present a challenge with the assumption that Uber Item A is widespread.

historically, no developer has yet chosen "1". they always, always choose 2. and this, piramida, affects me, because unless i also buy Uber Item A, i will not be able to do anything past the point where i should have gotten it. in addition, the most uberriffic items are so heinously powerful that to use them before they would have been gotten makes the game sickeningly easy--since most Uber Item As are balanced with the assumption that the character using them will have leveled to X. if the item is useful to someone at level X, it'll be overly powerful at X-10, sickening at X-20, and horrifying at X-30. thus, everything from X-30 and up has to be adjusted to compensate, and that fucks everyone in the game that does not have Uber Item A.

which breeds the farming. if a plethora of Uber Item A breaks the game, and developers adjust the game to accommodate the implied presence without adjusting the acquisition of it in any way (which, again, historically they haven't; in fact, sometimes they've even reduced the odds of getting one after scaling up), guess what that means? that means Uber Item A goes from a nice twinking device to something everyone must have, but only characters that are level X that have done Y and gone to Z can get it.

hello, spawn camping, bitching, farming, KSing, ganking, training, luring, and all those lovely behaviors that arise when high-valued resource is limited, fixed, and--now--virtually required for frustration-free gameplay. hello, customer service calls. hello, broken gameplay. hello, frustration for casual player that can't/won't/doesn't spend real-world cash on a virtual item.

repeat this cycle for every high-powered item that's sold for real-world cash. pretty soon, you'll have one of two things, mostly:

1. nerfing coming so thick and fast nobody knows what the hell's going to happen next. (which, of course, only perpetuates the cycle as players scramble for every single piece of uber gear they can find, selling, camping, etc)

2. a "monty haul" aspect, where the power curve of the game ramps up and up and up and up and up, to the point where rerolling is not only encouraged but required. (which, of course, only perpetuates the cycle as players scramble for every single piece of uber gear they can find to twink their rerolls to "get past the boring parts", selling, camping, etc.)

note that both options have the same effect on the game: perpetuating the cycle.

thus, very soon--and very quickly--the entire game is being adjusted for one, small, self-selected group of players that profit at others' expense, and to others' detriment. this is wrong, imo.

Leslie Nassar:

I'll text-mode bullet-time the first crying baby who points out my incorrect usage of "it's".  Bullet-time you good.

bring it.

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
#116 by Bailey
2002-04-19 20:00:55
Marsh

The rug's not the soulless automaton... just the idea of skinning a cute widdle puddy-cat is cruel, callous and perversely entertaining. All characteristics of yourself that we've grown to love and ph34r.

Ah, okay. You need to research my current icon.

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#117 by Ergo
2002-04-19 22:09:32
Did somebody mention soulless automaton? I'm right HERE, people.

"I want you to remember me just as I am...filled with murderous rage!" --Homer Simpson
#118 by zimbardo_ugly
2002-04-19 23:47:00
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
Shit, Bailey, - now that you mention it, that icon is pretty good. An allegory?

- skazal Rzhevskij i razmazal govno po bil'jardnomu stolu...
#119 by Bailey
2002-04-20 00:01:17
Ergo

You traded in your autonomy and felt bad for Chella, remember? You're not one of us anymore, you might as well join Greenpeace.

zimbardo

More of a karmic connection. If there was any life I could live other than my own, give me Jerusalem's. Filthy living, functioning alchoholism, and having one's sexual advances rebuffed on live national television. No one would even notice the switch.

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#120 by EvilAsh
2002-04-20 00:20:41
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
Ergo

You traded in your autonomy and felt bad for Chella, remember? You're not one of us anymore; you might as well join Greenpeace.

Zimbardo

More of a karmic connection. If there was any life I could live other than my own, give me Jerusalem's. Filthy living, functioning alcoholism, and having one's sexual advances rebuffed on live national television. No one would even notice the switch.

I think you wanted the statement to look like this. :)

On 2002-04-18 04:47:00  Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me."
#121 by crash
2002-04-20 00:35:18
you know you've hit rock bottom when a troll thinks he can correct you.

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
#122 by EvilAsh
2002-04-20 00:40:23
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
Sorry Crash, you are incorrect. I did correct him. If you want to verify the fact that I did; just compare the previous post of his to the one I posted.

There are some clear differences. Of course I could correct your post.

On 2002-04-18 04:47:00  Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me."
#123 by OmegaFoRCe
2002-04-20 01:13:07
Quietly weeping...

... These aren't the craps you're looking for ...
#124 by "MrNutty"
2002-04-20 01:28:28
misternutty@hotmail.com

The only surprising thing to me is that it involves Dimension.  A game built around an effect from a Miramax flick being taken on board by Miramax to be turned into it's own film.  I love it.


The Matrix wasn't from Miramax, it was Village Roadshow/Warner Brothers film.
#125 by Funkdrunk
2002-04-20 01:39:24
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
Bailey

You traded in your autonomy and felt bad for Chella, remember? You're not one of us anymore, you might as well join Greenpeace.


You sure it was Ergo?  Didn't M0nty call him the soulless autotomaton?

Funk.
#126 by LPMiller
2002-04-20 02:04:19
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Sorry Crash, you are incorrect. I did correct him. If you want to verify the fact that I did; just compare the previous post of his to the one I posted.

There are some clear differences. Of course I could correct your post.


But your corrections were in fact, wrong.

Now say your sorry, and go to your room. We'll talk later.

Will warez for food.
#127 by Martin
2002-04-20 02:11:01
http://www.mocol.nu
I tried my best toi follow this thread but i failed miserabluy. I'm sure itwas fun for the 9ne sinvolved.

And, in case yiu haven't figured it out yet, i*m posting drunka. As heelll.

I can't even fiocus enough to cortredct this piost.

And I found out that the fgirl I like doesn®'t niot like me the way I liek her.  And that stings. But why does she kjeep giving m,e the looks she does.?

I'll sleep now., good night.

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#128 by Martin
2002-04-20 02:12:13
http://www.mocol.nu
"doesnt't not" is incorrect,. Trake outone of those negations and youreš right on the money.

vlah I'm tierwd...

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#129 by EvilAsh
2002-04-20 02:30:15
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
No Lp you are incorrect. My corrections were exact. I decided to have fun and cut and paste his first post into word.. It found about 13 errors. Sorry he did make mistakes.

On 2002-04-18 04:47:00  Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me."
#130 by LPMiller
2002-04-20 02:41:08
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
then you need to compare them again, because the only correction you made was to add one semi colon in place of a comma, which would be a correction one could debate with.

Furthermore, you then forgot the bold tags, canceling out any correction you were attempting.

Will warez for food.
#131 by bishop
2002-04-20 03:03:19
http://www.darkintel.org/00FF00/
Unless his correction was indeed removing the bold tags, an injustice punishable by death.

May the end of the world be warm and smoldering.
At least for some of you.
#132 by Bailey
2002-04-20 03:50:29
I think you wanted the statement to look like this. :)

You probably do think that. However, "alchoholism" (the jolly kind of alcoholic) would be a reference from #planetcrap, and zimbardo's name is lowercase. The semicolon is just an incidence of literary rectal retentiveness. Way to correct writing style. Though, actually, since you just ran it through Word, something I believe you mentioned the other day you're not quite so anal as to actually do, you didn't correct anything. I've got a copy of Word as well, only mine doesn't constantly troll Planetcrap.

(thinking)

I believe I'll opt-out of upgrading to EvilWord, but thanks for the demonstration.

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#133 by EvilAsh
2002-04-20 05:07:55
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
Oh yes Bailey it was just an incidence of illiterate rectal stupidity. You are correct sir.

On 2002-04-18 04:47:00  Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me."
#134 by piramida
2002-04-20 07:57:24
crash, #115: I see your point, what you describe is indeed affecting your game. However, it looks more like a result of excessive duping, which could destroy the playing world in more ways than one.

But without illegal duplication of powerful Item A, assuming only legal in-game means to obtain one, I don't see how in-game trading would be any different from out-of-game trading. Same high-level chars farming that uberitem and selling to anyone who can provide enough plats/gold pieces/whatever - admittedly, real money allow more "newbie" players to have that uberitem, but total quantity is not going to change, unless the game is unbalanced, allowing for large quantities of Item A to be generated.

signatures are stupid.
#135 by chris
2002-04-20 08:35:09
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.cerebraldebris.com
I've read that the proper use of a semi-colon is a good way for prospective writers to show agents and publishing houses that they actually know how to write.

I'll be honest: with the exception of its purpose in lists, the damn thing still confuses the hell out of me. :P

-chris
(guess I'm not ready for primetime just yet)
#136 by crash
2002-04-20 08:49:55
piramida:

But without illegal duplication of powerful Item A, assuming only legal in-game means to obtain one, I don't see how in-game trading would be any different from out-of-game trading.

because it adds a real-world consequence and dynamic to a virtual-world milieu, and the competition and "must-have-ness" of the item becomes far more acute when it's real--not virtual--money on the line.

you play poker with friends, i bet. okay. you've got a full boat--kings over threes--playing seven stud. you're 99% sure you can take the pot with that, but one of your friends has three to a straight flush and three hidden, and you haven't seen any of the other cards he needs. he's betting and raising, betting and raising, betting and raising--and you've got two pair showing.

got that? okay.

scenario 1: you're playing for plastic chips and bragging rights. no money. you sweating?

scenario 2: you're playing for nickels, dimes, quarters. you sweating?

scenario 3: you're playing for fifty thousand dollars. you sweating?

the answer to all three should be "no", because the game is exactly the same.

only the stakes are different.

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
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