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Why MMORPG item trading is not bad
April 18th 2002, 23:01 CEST by piramida

It is a generally accepted fact among MMORPG players that trading game items for real money is a Bad Thing. Most of the time, however, the reasoning beyond that statement is far from perfect. I would really love to hear PC elder's view on this subject.

MMORPG worlds, naturally, spawn item trading marketplaces, with their own unstable economies, akin to economies of third-world countries. Black markets of hard currency do exist in both and there's nothing that could be done to stop it, probably besides putting everyone in a separate prison cell (prohibiting item exchange at all). Abstracting from the gameplay itself, each MMORPG has thousands of people daily creating items which are demanded by thousands of other people. Instability (dependance on hacks, patches, server glitches, etc) makes the black hard currency market unevitable evil. No matter how hard the government would try to ban the very notion of dollar, the dollar is not going anywhere. In MMORPGs, it's even worse - moment when the item changes hands is not immediately tied to the moment cash changes hands, which makes tracking and banning item sales a laughably impossible task. But I'll skip the details of the process and discussion of possible fraud, since I believe this to be well known to those who've read past the first sentence. Let's just say that despite everything, item trade is booming, just visit your favourite auction site (or even the "slimy" Player Auctions) and do a few searches - tens of thousands of real dollars are exchaning hands every day.

Let's get straight to the moral and the question of this text: why are MMORPG item sales bad? Common answers are:

1. Because EULA prohibits it.
        Yeah... right. Next.

2. Because it gives hackers and fraudulent players a better incentive for doing all the Bad Things, perverting the intention of the original game and making the game world an unhappy greed-infested place without love.
        The universal answer, which always made me scream "bullshit". For most players, the incentive of having the uberitem in the game far outweights the possible gain of twenty dollars. Hacks have nothing to do with item trading - though used by traders wherever possible, it's just a tool rather than direct result of item trades. Even if items would have no value whatsoever people would be looking for a way to cheat the game, just do a research on popularity of cheating in single-player games. If there are loopholes, people would find them sooner or later, if there are people to fool, they will be fooled, and that's human nature.

3. Because game companies feel troubled that item losses caused by bugs in their software, networking glitches and people's stupidity can now be measured in dollars, which makes it a whole different situation requiring commercial security and tons of legal mumbo-jumbo.
        Most if not every MMORPG service provider states that everything contained on their server, including items, accounts and characters, always remains their property. I don't see how any player's claim could be ever tested in court, if they had never owned any of their items in the first place, and were never promised any insurance for their items - but then, I'm no lawyer. It just seems very logical.

4. Because it is not morally right to gain advantage over other "honest" players using your real-world financial status.
        Everyone plays the game the way that gives him/her the most satisfaction, even if that does not meet other player's expectations - the same way playing 24/7 gives you an "advantage". Most casual players, who form the demand for purchasable game items, can not dedicate much time to playing. Why do they have to keep themselves from buying something that they'd never be able to find in their lifetime but Really Want to have? It's their problem that they did not receive the satisfaction of "honestly" obtaining that item.

Besides, if you have a well established account in EQ and want to switch to an account in AC, you have no other means but sell/buying or starting all over leaving an unused account behind. Not everyone enjoys tedious leveling, some may like the status in itself, like most of you would not like (warning: irrelevant car analogy ahead) to save money for another year just to switch your (hypothetical) Porshe for Ferrari, throwing the Porshe away since you don't like it anymore. I know, legally you never owned the EQ account, but I'm talking about the motivation, and why this form of cheating known as item trades would stay.

Most casual players I approached on the subject immediately responded "People who buy items are idiots, I would never buy a virtual item for real money", and the very same people would, when given an item of outstanding usefullness for just 10$, would say "Sure, 10$ is nothing really, and it'll help make my game more fun". Maybe other people simply have more money to spend on their golf^H^H^H^Hhobby?

No, I'm not talking directly out of my ass, I'm generalizing what I've seen and researched on the matter. Game item trades are not bad, there is supply and there is demand, they are not going anywhere no matter how hard game companies are banning them, so why does almost everyone think it's something abnormal like eating babies? Because the traded subject is virtual? But so is, say, visiting a museum.

What do You think, besides obvious response that author is a moron who can't speak english?
C O M M E N T S
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#65 by VeeSPIKE
2002-04-19 05:06:12
What's weaker? Someone taking their excess loot and selling it for a fair price on the open market? Or someone farming a highly sought after item... just to trick out their 3rd twink?


Here is a thought, assuming it has not already been brought up earlier and I just missed it. How difficult would it be to develop an in-game system for trading/selling powerful items?

Being MMORPG-challenged, I have no idea if this has not already been tried either, but seems to me to be a way to totally close the system and end that argument at east.
#66 by crash
2002-04-19 05:15:09
from the bottom of the page:

There are currently 193 people browsing this site.

uh, holy shit.

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
#67 by Dev
2002-04-19 05:19:18
admin@techillimit.net
There are currently 225 people browsing this site.


must be linked somewhere..

"If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." -- Lewis Carroll
#68 by Charles
2002-04-19 05:26:03
www.bluh.org
Either linked, or morn fucked up some php and it's not timing out unregistered users.

Bailey:  Beep beep, motherfucker.
#69 by Bailey
2002-04-19 05:43:06
crash

do you use cheats in single-player RPGs?

if not, why not?

Well, I do cheat, horrifically so, presumably some believe it would devalue my play experience to cheat through it. However, as I'm much happier just ingesting the story and scenery than slogging through the tenth orc cave just to level my guys up so they can survive later on, that's how I derive the most enjoyment from RPGs. No StatBuilder, I.

Oddly, on the other side of the coin, I've never even attempted a dupe or cheat in any of the GIPs since my first day in UO beta. I just didn't see the point, (though admittedly, hearing BlackSnow claim to pull in 60K USD a month sheds a bit more light on the "why do it?" factor) because I was never interested in "winning" the game. I've got much more of the explorer complex than anything else. And for those who do like to "win", I can only imagine how those people who invested all that time and effort into waking the Sleeper must've felt.

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#70 by LPMiller
2002-04-19 05:47:53
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I just see 43 browsing...still, a lot of window shoppers.

Will warez for food.
#71 by Warren Marshall
2002-04-19 06:35:18
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
I see 212.  wtf?

I foresee a troll invasion ...

WoT?
#72 by HiredGoons
2002-04-19 06:40:21
I see 212.  wtf?

I foresee a troll invasion ...


A-hooooo-ga! A-hooooo-ga!

All hands on deck!  Batten the hatches!

Tuck in those pajamas!


DIVE DIVE DIVE!!!!
#73 by yotsuya
2002-04-19 06:40:27
Users Currently Online:
Slappy [Reading Topic: Why MMORPG item trading is not bad]
Warren Marshall [Reading Topic: Why MMORPG item trading is not bad]
yotsuya [Reading Topic: Why MMORPG item trading is not bad]
And 184 guests.


I'm just proud to be mentioned in the same breath as Warren and ... Slappy

Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
#74 by Bailey
2002-04-19 07:12:56
It's apparently all about taking pride in the little things for which you have no responsibility... hurr.

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#75 by Sgt Hulka
2002-04-19 09:47:43
Oh, I think a +12 Olsen Sword will earn WAY more than $300 on Ebay!

OT:
Today I was in the 2nd day of my battle with a swarm of them in the backyard. They are little terrorists! Wouldn't let me cut the grass under my crabapple tree, and I needed to put Scotts Lawn Care #1 down, so I HAD TO GET IT CUT! So I had to make a trip to the local hardware store, buy a can of that "Hornet-Away" stuff. Waited til dark, then sprayed the wood on the clubhouse where I thought they were coming from. The next day, they were back, and I swear one of them flipped me off! So, I let them bee (pardon the pun) for the day. That night, I went out with a flashlight and found the next. It was under the awning on the clubhouse. I soaked it good with the inceticide and today there was only two flying around instead of the 20 or so I saw the previous day. I've still got work today, and I'm thankful none of them have sucessfully landed a stinger in my ass yet. If you find a swarm of them, it's best to run, hide, and take care of them at night while they are sleeping. Unfortunately, it's too late for this guy. He was stung 100's of time by up to 10,000 wasps just a few days ago!

.....If You See Her Glow, It's Too Late!
#76 by Neale
2002-04-19 11:21:39
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
We just got a local fisherman to come and cyanide one of our many wasp nests (they use the wasp grub for bait). He stuck a small amount of cyanide on a spoon attached to a long stick and stuck it in the nest entrance. An hour later, there were dead wasps everywhere. Fantastic.

Another nest was dealt with in a bizarre way by my friend - first he stuck a hosepipe in the entrance and turned it on, followed by a couple of fireworks, then put a lawnmore on top and switched it on. Needless to say, I was watching from a great distance. This is the same friend that had a room full of bees in his house once, and I arrived to find him merrily sucking them into the vaccuum cleaner. He was certifiable, but funny to watch.

Eradicators! - www.eradicators.co.uk
#77 by Gunp01nt
2002-04-19 12:09:56
supersimon33@hotmail.com
I foresee a troll invasion ...

really? the question is... are you gonna pretend to stay on the good side or are you gonna show your true face and collaborate with the trolls?

Don't you wanna seize the day?
I wanna go back to reality
But I'm just addicted to stay
Guide me the way out of infinity
#78 by Gunp01nt
2002-04-19 12:38:45
supersimon33@hotmail.com
I propose an anti warez-topic rule for the submission bin.

Don't you wanna seize the day?
I wanna go back to reality
But I'm just addicted to stay
Guide me the way out of infinity
#79 by jjohnsen
2002-04-19 13:25:36
http://www.johnsenclan.com
You just have to convince everyone to vote no.

Warez is naughty, saving your game is a personal choice and the coffee was just too damn hot.
#80 by piramida
2002-04-19 13:34:28
Thanks to all with thoughtfull answers :) Many people missed the point - my fault, english is not my native language.

I am not trying to state that it's legally fine to ignore the EULA. I don't care about EULA simply because I am not interested in game companies position - as any government, they would ban anything even remotely morally questionable, only to unban it back later when they see black market booming and want to get their share of it. We'll see what happens first - legal pot or legal item trading; I think items would win, since Sims online (and that link in #9 is the first sign, thanks) is coming out. With SO, it'll be no longer kids spending parent's money and casual gamers spending hard-earned 10$. It'll be women who enjoy Sims spending money and I suppose it would be unstoppable.

Let's just forget about hacks for a moment as jafd suggests; it is next to impossible to show proof, and you don't want to believe my observations; fine. My position is that hacks are created by technically challenged hackers (doh!) with extra free time, and later used by players. Sure, traders and power-gamers are the first to learn about and use hacks - to stay competitive, but unlike power-levelers, traders are the group of people affected the most by hacks. They are always at risk of loosing all their belongings because of account hack; dropping prices because of the new dupe hack; etc - traders are trying their best to make the company fix their bugs ASAP. Stable environment is much more important to traders than to roleplayers. Sure, if some hack is spreading, trader has to use it or leave for another game, if you don't understand why, it's there in competition 101. Forget hacks, without facts we will be bending it there and back endlessly.

Now, there are people like crash (thanks for the answer btw, knowing your stance on this I expected a "yuo=fagot" post), who are purists, to whom every violation of self-imposed code of conduct is a blasphemy. They would seemingly never accept the right of power-gamers and traders to exist, and they can't understand how playing the game in a different way can be fun, fine, their right. Just tell me how it affects YOU and YOUR playing experience. Not that all people who are playing differently are idiots; it's not very productive. You never buy items, you get the most fun out of finding stuff yourself, why do you worry then? I fail to see.

I admit that after doing power-leveling and roleplaying (which are tons of fun if you do it right), I find trading the most addictive part of the game. In-game item trading world, usually, is VERY limited, not even speaking about how it is affected by inflation and game changes. It is very frustrating for a casual player wanting to purchase (in-game) items. No fixed prices (traders are making >1,000% on resale easily), scum and almost no protection, fear of being robbed. If legalized and adequately structured, in-game or out-of-game trading could: fix the prices, allow protection, get rid of the scum surrouding it. bago, #63, I very much agree with - it's there whether you like it or not. It's becoming stronger, hopefully will become legal, now how is it bad for YOU, not the company?

signatures are stupid.
#81 by Rambar
2002-04-19 14:32:21
Did you read it the ruling at all jafd?
"(see ProCD, Inc. v Zeidenberg, 86 F.3d 1447; Specht v Netscape Communications Corp., 150 F. Supp. 2d 585)." "

That's there because those are relevant to the case..

--
Rambar
#82 by Ashiran
2002-04-19 14:32:57
#80 by piramida
We'll see what happens first - legal pot or legal item trading;

That contest already has a victor. And it's not legal item trading.

Regarding the rest of your post. You are gonna get shafted in the rear for that.

Civilized barcode, quick id.
#83 by piramida
2002-04-19 14:53:28
Ashiran, here where I live marijuana is still illegal. Trading items for beer is active though :)

signatures are stupid.
#84 by jafd
2002-04-19 14:59:41
I did read the ruling, and I think I understand it, but I'm almost certainly wrong about that.

You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
#85 by PrfBrain
2002-04-19 15:03:27
brain@arn.net
All the previous posts are very good reasons for the company's to not promote that type of activity. There is another though that is a perfectly valid and good reason. No company running an MMPORPG today wants to be a mediator in a dispute between Johnny who just bought a +50 sword of butter churning, only to get in game to find out that Billy Badfingers never intended to give him the item he "bought" or give him a +5 ladel of bottle smashing instead. It's way too much work and there are idiots who would try to sue the company over it.

Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you.
#86 by piramida
2002-04-19 15:10:44
PrfBrain, and it can be easily prevented with a legal item trading system. If it's built-in in the game, or provided via external means, and money change hands only when the other party receives and safely gets away with the item... Woop, 90% of item trading fraud is gone.

signatures are stupid.
#87 by piramida
2002-04-19 15:12:37
(90% is an out-of-the-ass number meaning everything not including some very rare and complicated fraud scenarios).

signatures are stupid.
#88 by PrfBrain
2002-04-19 15:14:42
brain@arn.net
That takes you out of the game/universe the company is trying to portray. Please insert thou Credit Card numbers now to trade for thee ringmail of enchanted dragonsnout. Me thinks not. Yes, you pay monthly to play this type of game but it's handled away from anything in game.

Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you.
#89 by piramida
2002-04-19 15:16:23
See link in post #9.

signatures are stupid.
#90 by Marsh Davies
2002-04-19 15:37:22
www.verbalchilli.com
Another warez thread... How did someone... I mean... Jesus.

-- ex Spatula Man --
#91 by Marsh Davies
2002-04-19 15:37:42
www.verbalchilli.com
*primal scream*

-- ex Spatula Man --
#92 by Quicken
2002-04-19 15:39:26
gdunn@backmeup.net.au
The reason item trading is cracked down on is simply a legal issue. Not a moral issue. Let's say that I created a new MMORPG called "World of Quicken" where characters could arange, through the game, an exchange of money for an item. Frank wants to sell his +2 calculator to Jane for $10 so they do it through the game with the $10 coming from Jane's credit card and put onto Frank's account while the item is automatically handed over. World of Quicken does not take a cut they simply make sure there's no fraud.

Now soon after the excange Jane's dies in a freak lag related accident. She sues the World of Quicken for the loss of use of an item which clearly she paid money for and World of Quicken is responsible for that loss and should compensate her the $10. World of Quicken defends itself saying it retains ownership of all items and characters and has full rights to do as it pleases and is sorry Jane's character died but is not going to reverse the event or pay $10.

In the courts it's not going to be a very clear case. By exchanging money Jane is purchasing "something" be it a service or item or some electronic transfer. World of Quicken clearly has some blame in her loosing that so more than likely the courts will ask for some sort of payout.

As a result all MMORPG don't allow item exchanges for real world money. Nor do they run on a system where you pay for each character created. Not even is there a payment based on actual play time but instead play a fixed rate per month.
#93 by LPMiller
2002-04-19 15:49:34
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Goddammit Bishop!!!


pant, pant.

PlanetCrap: Come for the Warez, stay for the pie.

Will warez for food.
#94 by devttys0
2002-04-19 16:15:43
http://www.planetcrap.com/
To prevent another warez thread, please print this out and use it as a handy pocket-reference.

Warez at the binary level:

Developer sweats and toils, finally the end product (simplified).

11001101

Publisher or developer try to protect their data. (Represented by brackets).

[11001101]

Application gets published. Dev is happy, publisher is happy (pending sales).

$6 dollar an hour copy duplication technician notices app, decides it would be great if his group did a 0-day crack for it.

The warez-monkeys give it a once over, tearing the protection off, and chunking it up into small net-friendly pieces.

11.r00, 00.r01, 11.r02, 01.rar --> Oh hey, yENC is out, let's use that! (Encoding scheme for idiots.)

(11001101).rar - yENC - part 1 of 23224, etc..

Various vagabonds 'courier' the data to FTP drops squirreled away in various places.

Group posts boast of their feat, releases software.

Developer goes bankrupt.

Developer plans to infiltrate warez group, making sure a few FED-friendly backdoors find their way into the apps the warez monkeys release. (My suggestion.)

Repeat.
#95 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-19 16:25:37
http://departmentofinternets.com
The reason item trading is cracked down on is simply a legal issue.  Not a moral issue.

The reason is that these farming, cheating jackasses are ruining the experience for other players.  The means to get rid of said jackasses is enforcing the EULA.

I don't see what the big deal is.  If one of those fucks was in a theatre disrupting a film -- talking on his cell, screaming out plot points before they happen, smoking -- he'd be on the street in no time, no EULA required.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#96 by "Anonymous"
2002-04-19 16:26:03
Quote:
[A-hooooo-ga! A-hooooo-ga!

All hands on deck!  Batten the hatches!

Tuck in those pajamas!


DIVE DIVE DIVE!!!!]




Heh heh-hhhh....  

Too bad you're not a battle-dwarf!    ;)




The Male Battle-:D
#97 by Greg
2002-04-19 16:31:50
Quicken,

The easiest way to deal with that scenario is for the company to say (in the EULA?) that whenever a transaction occurs over items (on eBay, for example), the money is not for the items, but for the service of the payee to deliver the item(s) to the person who paid. It is not their responsibility to make sure the transaction proceeds properly, so do so at your own risk.

Also, the game company probably has no knowledge there was even a transaction taking place. Why should they reimburse Jane for her $10 if they never knew? Besides, she is paying for the ability to play the game, not for the game to do what she wants. Sure, there are some expectations, and network traffic isn't totally in the control of the game company. In your example, I'd have the right to sue if I pull my network plug and my character dies, and I blame it on lag. There has to be some reasonable expectations in place. And it is reasonable that there will be lag.

MMORPGs would be better off if developers could eliminate farming.

Greg

-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having!
#98 by Bailey
2002-04-19 16:44:25
I think we need to hijack this thread into a discussion about how tediously unimpressive SoF2 MP test is coming across. Not just because, well, this discussion is over, but because I'm a student of the School of Immediate Gratification.

Yes, I really think we must.

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#99 by Marsh Davies
2002-04-19 16:53:30
www.verbalchilli.com
Not unless you bring back Mr Flatcuddles.

-- ex Spatula Man --
#100 by jafd
2002-04-19 16:54:42
MMORPGs would be better off if developers could eliminate farming.

Yes, well, too bad they cannot. Minimize it, sure, but that involves rather a great deal of evolution in game design; which I'm sure they'd rather not have to do, if they don't have to. Irregardless, unless they make all items nodrop and/or prevent any player from talking to anyone else... it'll happen. How can it not happen? The stuff has real world value, in that it takes time to get it, and time is money. Even children know this- obviously.

I still don't see the problem. All this talk about how the company doesn't want to deal with it... well, they don't have to. Slap a big "caveat emptor" sign on the front of the box, hang up the phone when people call up to complain, that's it, done. No more problem for the company. Just STFU and keep running the servers, thanks.

I look forward to the GIP that handles the issue with some more maturity than has been shown so far. As it is, if you criminalize farming, then only criminals will farm; which doesn't make for a very enjoyable gaming experience for legitimate users, thankyouverymuch.

What's worse? A group of well-behaved people playing the game responsibly, and funnelling all their loot back into the economy in some fashion, or, a group of loudmouthed cheating choad brats, using every dirty trick in the book to monopolize the environment, so they can build their seventh twink or trade lewt for cybersex? You tell me.

You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
#101 by Bailey
2002-04-19 17:27:19
Marsh Davies?

Not unless you bring back Mr Flatcuddles.

He's had his moment in the sun. Perhaps later on I'll employ Choo-Choo Bear.

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#102 by Bailey
2002-04-19 17:31:45
jafd

What's worse? A group of well-behaved people playing the game responsibly, and funnelling all their loot back into the economy in some fashion, or, a group of loudmouthed cheating choad brats, using every dirty trick in the book to monopolize the environment, so they can build their seventh twink or trade lewt for cybersex? You tell me.

Well, I'm pretty sure this question is rhetorical too, but I'm going to ignore that. The design flaw, as I see it, is making items more consequential than the avatar. If you could make character development more interesting and involved for the player, (i.e. a hell of a lot more intricate without rendering a character with one mis-applied skill point less than viable) you could fall back on a more mundane item system, therein removing it's value.

So really, all these GIP folk brought their troubles on themselves with crappy design logic that encourages farming.

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#103 by Hugin
2002-04-19 17:32:44
lmccain@nber.org
Am I to understand that the War of the Martins is over?
#104 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-19 17:34:09
http://departmentofinternets.com
Max Payne: Dimension Films and Abandon Entertainment have signed a deal to adapt the video game.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#105 by Martin
2002-04-19 17:42:46
http://www.mocol.nu
Marsh: Was that in response to my whining? If so, appreciated. 8)

On another note: I'm getting a bit tired of trolls, can't we upgrade to bugbears?

I'm off to spend my loot on ale and whores!

Have a great friday boys and girls.

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#106 by Marsh Davies
2002-04-19 17:48:51
www.verbalchilli.com
Yes. Morn was kind enough to furnish me with a new name... Marsh is what I get called by my RL friends, anyhow, for reasons that aren't very interesting.

Bailey
He's had his moment in the sun.

Sad... I think it really encapsulated so many facets of your character. Mostly the "soulless automaton" facets, but still.

-- ex Spatula Man --
#107 by Bailey
2002-04-19 17:56:13
How is a catskin rug a soulless automaton?

Stuck flat smack dab in the middle of a century with nothing to lose.
#108 by Post-It
2002-04-19 17:59:22
keithlee@speakeasy.net
Leslie: Linkage?

Not suprised by that at all, Max has "adapt me for a screenplay" written all over it. I believe Scott and Petri both said it was purposely designed in this manner. Which makes perfect sense to me, why not, in creating a game, establish a brand in which to foster further financial success? Some people might not like sequals, but they make alot of sense finacially.

Side note to Scott: I'm a believer in marketing now. I went and bought "Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind" last week so maybe I could have an idea of what you guys are always talking about. Good book. Makes sense. I agree.

Florida is the New Nazi FuckMonkeys.
-LPMiller (warzed quote, used without permission)
#109 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-19 18:02:47
http://departmentofinternets.com
Leslie: Linkage?

No additional information, but go here for all your wacky entertainment needs.  They even have an FX shot of Yoda looking all bad-ass in Episode II.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#110 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-19 18:08:53
http://departmentofinternets.com
The only surprising thing to me is that it involves Dimension.  A game built around an effect from a Miramax flick being taken on board by Miramax to be turned into it's own film.  I love it.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#111 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-19 18:10:28
http://departmentofinternets.com
I'll text-mode bullet-time the first crying baby who points out my incorrect usage of "it's".  Bullet-time you good.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#112 by Marsh Davies
2002-04-19 18:14:33
www.verbalchilli.com
The rug's not the soulless automaton... just the idea of skinning a cute widdle puddy-cat is cruel, callous and perversely entertaining. All characteristics of yourself that we've grown to love and ph34r.

-- ex Spatula Man --
#113 by Marsh Davies
2002-04-19 18:39:39
www.verbalchilli.com
First impressions of sof2 are not good.

The servers don't list in order of ping. I also suspect the pings lie, since even servers listed with ping of about 40 are horribly laggy.

When I actually find a playable server, I'll tell you what I think of the game itself... :P

-- ex Spatula Man --
#114 by jafd
2002-04-19 19:02:35
So really, all these GIP folk brought their troubles on themselves with crappy design logic that encourages farming.

No doubt. However, every online world of this kind is going to have items that are more sought after than others, for whatever reason; and they will be peopled by folks with disparate amounts of time, money, luck, and knowledge.

And nature abhors a vacuum. /shrug. Oh well. What do I care? Black market, grey market, it's all the same, just a matter of intensity. "psst... how much for that tauntaun?"

You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
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