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Why do you play games?
April 17th 2002, 12:42 CEST by Martin

Why do you play games instead of doing something else? Why do you become a great blacksmith in UO? Why do you strive to find out the truth in Deus Ex? Why do you keep on blasting and force gripping Storm Troopers in JK2? When you could be outside, spending time with your friends, or perhaps even become a blacksmith in real life.

I guess that you play games because they entertain you and make you feel good but aren't there other things that can provide you with the same feeling? Aren't books and movies equally good at doing this? Or, as I mentioned, interact with others or partake in other activities?

The rest of this topic is a small insight into my own, anything but fascinating, life so feel free to skip it as I'm only writing this to provide a small example of what I'm talking about. This is not meant to be representative of the average gamer or a slam to those who play a lot of games.

I was raised with gaming, I played my first console game when I was 4 or 5 years old and ever since then I have been gaming one way or another. When I was around 20 I was more about partying, dancing and fooling around but for various reasons I gave that up some years later and went back to gaming. Quite a lot of gaming actually.

I didn't interact with any of my friends other when we played some MP on our LAN and a great way to spend a Friday night was in front of my TV with my DC and Grandia II. I worked a lot too but this is more or less what I did with my life and I was content with it. Perhaps not happy, but it was ok.

Then I fell in love with a girl. This was about 10 months ago and all of a sudden I had absolutely no desire to play games, being with her made me so much happier. So my brother borrowed my DC and I didn't play a single game on the PC, no matter what games my brothers or friends bought.

Alas it wasn't meant to be and she and I parted ways about 4 months ago and here I am, playing through Dungeon Siege with my brother and having a great time with it. I've started seeing another girl now but it's not anything serious (yet?) so I still 'need' Dungeon Siege to pass my time with. This only happens 3-4 days a week and only 3-4 hours a session but it's still something I enjoy doing.

Worth noting might be that I have no means to activate myself in any other way as I'm horribly underfunded right now due to unemployment. If I would have enough money (and time) I would probably start doing something else, like parachuting or diving or perhaps collecting anime titles.

So this is why I play games, because I have nothing else to do. I'm sure most of you here do it for other reasons and I'd be interested in hearing those. If you care to share that is.
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#1 by Gunp01nt
2002-04-17 12:44:46
supersimon33@hotmail.com
First!

it's martin's "I was once a geek till I got laid" topic.. finally made it on the frontpage

Don't you wanna seize the day?
I wanna go back to reality
But I'm just addicted to stay
Guide me the way out of infinity
#2 by bishop
2002-04-17 12:49:58
http://www.darkintel.org/00FF00/
A good question, and one I can't answer coherently.

Or at least, in any certain frame of time.

Thinking about it, I can't find any one reason why I do... I just do.

It's something I've been doing for so long that it's become a part of my life that won't change.

I supoose the simplest thing to say is that games are games, and if you toss out the years of bitter cynicism, you'll find that a hell of a lot of them are fun.

but of course, this engine sucks with this controller and that OS will never be right for games because of the (lack of) personal lives of the game developers and the way their dogs play quake.

Carry on.

May the end of the world be warm and smoldering.
At least for some of you.
#3 by Gunp01nt
2002-04-17 13:03:11
supersimon33@hotmail.com
some people play D&D, some people do origami, some people do crossword puzzles, some people are tweaking their car/bike all day...

I play games.

Everyone's gotta have a hobby.

Don't you wanna seize the day?
I wanna go back to reality
But I'm just addicted to stay
Guide me the way out of infinity
#4 by m0nty
2002-04-17 13:24:15
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Many Crappers are happily married, and still have time to play games. Lucky them. For single guys like us, we have to find something to pass the time. Apart from the constant masturbating, of course.
#5 by jafd
2002-04-17 13:26:03
I play games because they are excellent practice for many aspects of real life.

The benefits of game-playing on hand-eye coordination have been known for years; while this skill does not necessarily assist every aspect of life, it is certainly true that one uses one's hands for an awful lot of tasks. Additional proficiency in these tasks certainly doesn't hurt; for example. I can't even begin to remember what it is like to actually look at the keyboard whilst typing.

The kinds of games I enjoy playing, usually require some kind of problem solving in order to proceed and/or excel; the benefits of using one's brain to ferret out the solutions to various challenges ought to be obvious. Certainly, there are other methods of gaining skill in this area; the study and application of mathematics and psychology immediately spring to mind, I'm sure there are others. The advantages of playing a game, over these methods is that they are generally much cheaper, and much more instantaneously rewarding.

Speaking of rewarding, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that aspect of game playing; there are few activities in life that give as much instantaneous positive feedback as computer games. Even though it is wholly illusional, the rush of endorphins upon simply succeeding at moving my avatar around in a manner that meets my goals, is not an illusion.

I'm well aware that playing computer games has exceptionally little benefit in my real life, for the most part; which is why I am consciously and unconsciously only interested in playing games that challenge my mind in some fashion. Dungeon Siege has been all the rage of late; not for me! The idea of sitting down and pretty much just clicking on a few pretty pictures and watching a pretty game play itself holds absolutely little interest for me.

If I'm not being challenged, then I'm not having fun; my mind wanders while I sit on my exercise bike in front of the monitor, and I consider other activities I could be doing with my time that would be much more productive.

Jedi Knight 2, a game that I am as happy with as happy can be, for the most part, offers me an opportunity to put my mind in the position where it must continually analyze a complicated situation and come up with good solutions in a speedy basis; this pleases me. I mean, it is bad enough that I'm frittering my time away and gaining no real material benefit; I may as well at least be doing something that vaguely has some positive, long-term effect on my existence, yes?

However, to get back to the actual focus of the question... why do I play games? Well, the above text that I've written doesn't really answer that question, precisely. The truest answer is, ever since that balmy spring day when my mother took me to the Safeway at the age of seven, and I saw the Pac-Man machine at the front of the store, the first video game I ever saw... well, if she hadn't just handed me over a quarter when I asked for one, who knows how my life would have turned out? Perhaps I'd have been more motivated to "work" really "hard" for the majority of my life, as most people do, rather than decide at an early age that I needed to figure out the most rapid and efficient method attainable to set my existence up to require working less so that I could "play" games more.

It's worked out pretty well, so far. All that min/max'ing practice I got in my teen years in the computer lab after school seems to have paid off handsomely. Who'dathunkit?

You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
#6 by jafd
2002-04-17 13:28:44
I'd also like to point out that one of my favorite games of all time is "Semi-Colon Bolo." WHAP!

You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
#7 by Martin
2002-04-17 13:36:55
http://www.mocol.nu
#3 by Gunp01nt
Everyone's gotta have a hobby.

Sure, but /why/ did you choose games as a hobby? Why not D&D, origami or crosswords? What does games offer you that makes it your prefered waste of time?

I'd just like to point out, as both m0nty and Gunp01nt seems to have gotten the wrong impression, that this is not about sex > games. I got laid plenty of times before I became a hermit. The girl I mention was more than a nice piece of ass to me, we had a truly great time together, both in and out of bed.

Another point that I failed to push enough is that if I had the means I would do other things than play games but a game like Dungeon Siege in coop with my brother offers a lot of bang for the buck. I'm heading out tonight with my friends but I won't be drinking no Mot, I'm going to be hopped up on the cheapest wine I can find.

I would be diving, getting a license for driving motorcycles, traveling, getting that Dodge Charger and working on that, in short a lot of other stuff than gaming. I don't know why but gaming just isn't as exciting as it once was.

Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to UT2k3, U2, Doom 3 and Deus Ex 2 but that's about it. Homeworld 2? Never heard of it? Morrowind? Nah. And so on...

I know that games are fun, I've had lots of fun with games, it's just that I feel that I've 'moved on' in lack of a better way of putting it. I sit down with my brother and play Jak & Daxter on his PS2 or a game of Super Bust A Move but it's not like I long for a 8-hour session with Metropolis Street Racer anymore.

The reason for this is perhaps that I feel that I've 'wasted' a lot of years doing nothing that evolves and enlightens me. If I learn how to dive I can explore the vast worlds that exist beneath the seas. If I learn how to fly a plane I can explore the skies as well. If I get a motorcycle I can get that cheap thrill that is going 200 kmph on a perfect straight. If I spend time with other people I can learn from them and evolve that way.

I'm sure that some / most of you feel this way about games, that they do infact bring enough to the table that it's worth playing them. Or are you just playing them because you don't know any better?

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#8 by m0nty
2002-04-17 13:42:32
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
OK then, so this topic isn't about how often you get laid with nice pieces of ass, it's about why you're jaded. Well, I suggest you ask the current Intercontinental Champeen of Gaming Jadedness: Bailey.
#9 by jafd
2002-04-17 13:46:26
The rest of this topic is a small insight into my own, anything but fascinating, life so feel free to skip it as I'm only writing this to provide a small example of what I'm talking about.

monty: read, understand, then post.

You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
#10 by devttys0
2002-04-17 13:50:51
http://www.planetcrap.com/
Martin,

Don't let the drooling mouth-breathers get to you.

Games can be involving, particularly the modification aspect. The parts requiring actual coding will teach you more than just skin modifications. I think that is what makes games redeemable, the fact you can learn as much or as little as you'd like. Want to get into the physics and matrices of dot product math? Go for it. Want to make a weapon that forces your opponents to hump the ground? No problem.

It tends to evolve for most technically oriented gamers like this: First playing games for sheer fun, then learning how to make superficial changes, and finally diving into the code deeply so you can and really see how things work under the hood. (Up to what is available to dissect codewise, depends on the game.)

It will also teach you a shitload about UDP and Client/Server interaction.

Once you stop enjoying playing the games, ripping them apart may be the next best thing.
#11 by m0nty
2002-04-17 13:50:57
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
jafd, you're channelling Andy again. This is disturbing.
#12 by Martin
2002-04-17 13:55:58
http://www.mocol.nu
#5 by jafd
The benefits of game-playing on hand-eye coordination have been known for years; while this skill does not necessarily assist every aspect of life, it is certainly true that one uses one's hands for an awful lot of tasks. Additional proficiency in these tasks certainly doesn't hurt; for example. I can't even begin to remember what it is like to actually look at the keyboard whilst typing.

I agree and I have reaped those benefits as well. I would think that over the year the effect of playing games in order to get these proficiencies would wear off though as you reach 'the roof' so to speak. And if you need these proficiencies in real life, wouldn't the tasks that require them keep them up to date? If you worked as a secretary, you would still be able to type without looking at your keyboard.

The kinds of games I enjoy playing, usually require some kind of problem solving in order to proceed and/or excel; the benefits of using one's brain to ferret out the solutions to various challenges ought to be obvious. Certainly, there are other methods of gaining skill in this area; the study and application of mathematics and psychology immediately spring to mind, I'm sure there are others. The advantages of playing a game, over these methods is that they are generally much cheaper, and much more instantaneously rewarding.

Another good point but this might only be applicable to a small percentage of gamers. I know that you're only speaking for yourself now so this is a moot reply I guess. But I'm keeping it anyhow.

Speaking of rewarding, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that aspect of game playing; there are few activities in life that give as much instantaneous positive feedback as computer games. Even though it is wholly illusional, the rush of endorphins upon simply succeeding at moving my avatar around in a manner that meets my goals, is not an illusion.

This is the point I agree with the most. Pulling off a perfect lap in MSR or wasting a sub boss in Grandia II after battling it for an hour was very rewarding. But I would like to think that getting a hole-in-one or a perfect 'across-the-field' goal in basket is very rewarding as well. Perhaps more as you have to work more to achieve them. I know these can be done with a fair bit of luck but that can be said about games as well.

The discussion about what's more rewarding; instant rewards or ones that you really have to work for to get is quite interesting but perhaps it should have it's own topic.

Dungeon Siege has been all the rage of late; not for me! The idea of sitting down and pretty much just clicking on a few pretty pictures and watching a pretty game play itself holds absolutely little interest for me.

Well, as I mentioned I enjoy DS in some limited fashion but that's more or less because it's something I can do that doesn't cost me a whole lot and requires little effort. Right now I'm at a point in my life where I'm less inclined to start on any grander adventures, such as going to the library.

If I'm not being challenged, then I'm not having fun; my mind wanders while I sit on my exercise bike in front of the monitor, and I consider other activities I could be doing with my time that would be much more productive.

Again, this is you talking and I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong but there is a challenge in working out as well, you just have to look for it and set your own goals. For you there are other things that you'd rather spend your time on, for others it's a battle against those extra pounds (which can be /very/ challenging).

However, to get back to the actual focus of the question... why do I play games? Well, the above text that I've written doesn't really answer that question, precisely. The truest answer is, ever since that balmy spring day when my mother took me to the Safeway at the age of seven, and I saw the Pac-Man machine at the front of the store, the first video game I ever saw... well, if she hadn't just handed me over a quarter when I asked for one, who knows how my life would have turned out? Perhaps I'd have been more motivated to "work" really "hard" for the majority of my life, as most people do, rather than decide at an early age that I needed to figure out the most rapid and efficient method attainable to set my existence up to require working less so that I could "play" games more.

Well, I think you explained pretty well why you play games. I understand what you mean about getting to play PacMan at the ages of seven. Then again, I was also introduced to games very early on and my father has always been into consoles and computers. Still, I feel that I have little need of gaming as of now. This doesn't mean that I want to work instead, I've already done that. I want to work just enough so that I can enjoy life, no matter what I end up doing.

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#13 by Martin
2002-04-17 14:06:54
http://www.mocol.nu
#8 by m0nty
OK then, so this topic isn't about how often you get laid with nice pieces of ass, it's about why you're jaded. Well, I suggest you ask the current Intercontinental Champeen of Gaming Jadedness: Bailey.

No, not really. I know that I'm most likely jaded and tired of games but I also feel that there are lots of other things that I'd rather do instead. There are games out there that I would most likely enjoy but I can't be bothered go looking for them as I'd rather do something else.

This is not about me being jaded, it's about analyzing what games has to offer as quite a lot of people play them and I'm truly curious to why.

I'm sure Bailey has a lot of insightful comments, as always.

#10 by devttys0
Don't let the drooling mouth-breathers get to you.

I know that this is payback time for m0nty as I've hijacked a few of his threads... 9)

Games can be involving, particularly the modification aspect. The parts requiring actual coding will teach you more than just skin modifications. I think that is what makes games redeemable, the fact you can learn as much or as little as you'd like. Want to get into the physics and matrices of dot product math? Go for it. Want to make a weapon that forces your opponents to hump the ground? No problem.

It tends to evolve for most technically oriented gamers like this: First playing games for sheer fun, then learning how to make superficial changes, and finally diving into the code deeply so you can and really see how things work under the hood. (Up to what is available to dissect codewise, depends on the game.)

I see what you're trying to say but it feels like this has less to do with why you play games and more to do with why you mod games. Or am I reading you wrong? You also say that you play through the game "for sheer fun" and this is the part that I'd like to dissect, the 'fun' part of playing the game. Why did you play it to begin with?

I understand that you can have tons of fun messing around with a game and I have done so plenty of times but for me this had less to do with the game at hand. A looong time ago I headed up a mod for UT that looked promising until I screwed things up. We hade very fun with this mod and I /loved/ working on the design document. Still, I never played through the SP game of UT and we seldom played any MP either. There was a period where all of us would play CTF on Facing Worlds against the bots on the hardest setting but this lasted for about a week or so.

So in the end UT in itself wasn't all that fun but the mod sure was.

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#14 by jafd
2002-04-17 14:07:31
And if you need these proficiencies in real life, wouldn't the tasks that require them keep them up to date?

Too much practice is never enough. I'm not, nor have I ever been, a secretary in real life, but if I were, I'm the kind of person that would want to engage in leisure activities that strengthened my day job, not weakened or ignored it. For the most part, at least; the great charm of computer gaming for me, is the remarkable lack of boundaries.

The discussion about what's more rewarding; instant rewards or ones that you really have to work for to get is quite interesting but perhaps it should have it's own topic.

Well, not really; it's all about perspective. Trading short-term happiness for long-term prosperity is beneficial... in the short-term.

Whether or not one is seeking short- or long-term satisfaction is a per-user setting.

Well, as I mentioned I enjoy DS in some limited fashion but that's more or less because it's something I can do that doesn't cost me a whole lot and requires little effort.

Another per-user setting; if a game requires little effort, it is anathema to me. If I want to sit on my ass and not have to do anything, I could just, you know, watch the telly. Oh, joy.

Still, I feel that I have little need of gaming as of now.

Agreed; I personally have very little "need" to game. In fact, I game very little, compared to my past, and compared to most "hardcore gamers." What I do need, is to be challenged during my leisure time; and computer games are very well-suited to providing that.

You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
#15 by devttys0
2002-04-17 14:08:59
http://www.planetcrap.com/
Martin,

It was meant as more of a timeline on how gamers usually progress. First the fun, then the learning of what makes the fun possible. At least it is for me.

It does have to be fun first to pull me in, however.
#16 by Gunp01nt
2002-04-17 14:18:46
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Sure, but /why/ did you choose games as a hobby? Why not D&D, origami or crosswords? What does games offer you that makes it your prefered waste of time?


Kinda grew up with it. We've had a PC ever since I was six and I was kinda intrigued by the thing. Back in the days I played Pac-man, Pong, Xenon 2, Space Invaders and Prince of Persia 1... and well since I got into gaming I stayed into gaming...

I know that games are fun, I've had lots of fun with games, it's just that I feel that I've 'moved on' in lack of a better way of putting it.

I know what you mean, I haven't played a single game in almost a week now. Because I've finished MOH, RtCW and stuff and haven't got JK2 yet. I play games like watching movies: see it once, then maybe playback a few cool scenes and then leave that expensive DVD to gather dust on my shelf.

Maybe I've grown out of games too, the new generation of gamers definitely still seems to be having fun with them, but I personally miss the innovation you had in the old days.

Remember when you first played Dune 2? I had to figure out how to control the game cause it was so unlike anything I'd ever played before.

That diversity in genres you had back then just doesn't exist anymore. All the genres have been defined now and people stick to them. The innovation is in small things, like weapon choice and neat effects like dodge jumping in max payne (that did open up a whole new style of play to me, though).

Don't you wanna seize the day?
I wanna go back to reality
But I'm just addicted to stay
Guide me the way out of infinity
#17 by m0nty
2002-04-17 14:21:57
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Martin, this is not payback - I am legitimately annoyed by the tone of your topic. It is silly, at best. What next, a topic asking why we use cars instead of rickshaws? You sound like my mother. "Get out and play in the sunshine, there's a good boy. Why do you want to stay inside all day? Run around the block, it will do you good!" Please, that's why I moved out of home 11 years ago.
#18 by Darkseid-D
2002-04-17 14:22:00
rogerboal@hotmail.com
because its a drug like response and reward issue.

you do well you win you feel good, you do bad you get mad/feel bad.


tis a drug I tell ya.

Ds

Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
#19 by Martin
2002-04-17 14:22:34
http://www.mocol.nu
#14 by jafd
Too much practice is never enough. I'm not, nor have I ever been, a secretary in real life, but if I were, I'm the kind of person that would want to engage in leisure activities that strengthened my day job, not weakened or ignored it. For the most part, at least; the great charm of computer gaming for me, is the remarkable lack of boundaries.

I understand what you're saying and to some extent I agree with you (when I worked as a webdesigner, I designed sites on my spare time). Then again, this depends on what kind of job you have and if you're happy with it. If I was working as a carpenter I'd have a hard time finding a hobby that helps me in my job. Or if I was working as a carpenter but hated it I would most likely try and do something completely different in my spare time.

I guess that this is were my jadedness shines through but I have yet to find a game that lacks boundaries. Or are you talking about gaming on a whole?

Whether or not one is seeking short- or long-term satisfaction is a per-user setting.

As is most of the things in life.

Another per-user setting; if a game requires little effort, it is anathema to me. If I want to sit on my ass and not have to do anything, I could just, you know, watch the telly. Oh, joy.

This is a per-user setting that depends on where I am in life. I somewhat recently bought Headhunter for my DC and it's a great game in the same vein as MGS but when I got to the first sub boss and got mowed down 10 times in a row I gave up. I'm just not motivated enough to keep it up.

I'm up to book, I really can't remember, six or so in the WoT series but gave up after reading about 1/4 of book seven as I wasn't motivated enough to finish it. I know I will get back in the saddle and get on with my life and then I'll most likely want more of a challenge from games and books and whatnot but right now life is enough challenge for me. Bah, that sounded a lot more dramatic than it was meant to be.

What I do need, is to be challenged during my leisure time; and computer games are very well-suited to providing that.

A reason as good as any to play games then. I guess I need a different kind of challenge.

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#20 by Morn
2002-04-17 14:22:35
morn@planetcrap.com http://hmans.net
I play games because it's fun.

Hendrik "Morn" Mans • morn@planetcrap.com • admin/coder/lover/kraut
#21 by Martin
2002-04-17 14:29:48
http://www.mocol.nu
#17 by m0nty
Martin, this is not payback

That's what the smiley was there for.

I am legitimately annoyed by the tone of your topic. It is silly, at best. What next, a topic asking why we use cars instead of rickshaws? You sound like my mother. "Get out and play in the sunshine, there's a good boy. Why do you want to stay inside all day? Run around the block, it will do you good!" Please, that's why I moved out of home 11 years ago.

Where did I tell you to go out and build a treehouse instead of playing games? Nowhere. What I did was asking you /why/ you prefer playing games instead of building a treehouse.

I don't care /if/ you play games 24/7, I care about /why/ you play games 24/7. What does games offer that other activities doesn't?

Come on, you're smart enough to figure this out for yourself. And the comparison between this topic and "cars vs. rickshaws" was a lot sillier than this topic.

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#22 by jafd
2002-04-17 14:30:06
Morn, you forgot to say, "Duh!"

You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
#23 by Martin
2002-04-17 14:32:02
http://www.mocol.nu
#18 by Darkseid-D
because its a drug like response and reward issue.

you do well you win you feel good, you do bad you get mad/feel bad.

I understand this but this is the same kick you get with target shooting or golfing or bowling. Or pretty much any activity that requires some skill. So why not do that instead?

#20 by Morn
I play games because it's fun.

EOD!

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#24 by EvilAsh
2002-04-17 14:46:00
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
I play games cause I can.
#25 by LPMiller
2002-04-17 14:46:04
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I play games because God didn't give me a body for Football, skating, or athletic activities in general.

Will warez for food.
#26 by piramida
2002-04-17 14:50:02
this is the same kick you get with target shooting or golfing or bowling. Or pretty much any activity that requires some skill. So why not do that instead?


Why "instead"? When you want to play golf, you go play golf, when you want to colonize Alpha Centauri or blow someone's head off you play computer games... Virtual games allow you to experience situations which you would never be able to experience in the real life, and that's why they are addictive - such situations are endless.

signatures are stupid.
#27 by Martin
2002-04-17 14:52:17
http://www.mocol.nu
#25 by LPMiller
I play games because God didn't give me a body for Football, skating, or athletic activities in general.

You quite obviuosly know how to read and write. Have you tried painting or drawing? Modeling in clay, wood or ice? I know I'm stretching it a bit but just because I mention activities that requires some sort of athlethic effort doesn't mean that these are the only alternatives to games. God knows that a healthy body is good to have when partying but it sure isn't a requirement.

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#28 by Darkseid-D
2002-04-17 14:53:31
rogerboal@hotmail.com
for the same reasons some people prefer coke to pepsi, and some smoke one brand of cigarettes over the others...


Oh and something else to add to your JediKnigh 2 OUTCAST experience

http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum5/HTML/007409.html

impressive, most impressive


Ds

Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
#29 by Martin
2002-04-17 14:58:08
http://www.mocol.nu
#26 by piramida
Why "instead"? When you want to play golf, you go play golf, when you want to colonize Alpha Centauri or blow someone's head off you play computer games... Virtual games allow you to experience situations which you would never be able to experience in the real life, and that's why they are addictive - such situations are endless.

True, there is no law that says that you can't play football one day, party the next and then play games on Sunday. The reason I put it the way I did was based on the assumption that a lot of crappers play a lot of games a lot of their free time.

I also agree that it's rewarding to be able to experience something that you'll never do in real life, be it colonizing space or blowing heads off. Then again, is the reward you get enough compared to some of the things you can do in real life. Because no matter how good a game is, it seldom (IMHO) comes close to feeling like real life does. Grr. My lack of english prevents me from explaining this better so please ask if you don't understand what I mean.

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#30 by Duality
2002-04-17 15:07:52
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
If I want to sit on my ass and not have to do anything, I could just, you know, watch the telly.

Except you've got no telly ... another per-user setting, to be sure.

I think I've forgotten why I play games.  I've been playing them so long that its all I pretty much know outside of very few other hobbies (movies/anime, toys, computers in general).  It still provides enjoyment, however; so I haven't bothered to stop.

I'm content with the purpose it serves me

You're the new nazis.
#31 by Martin
2002-04-17 15:11:21
http://www.mocol.nu
#28 by Darkseid-D
for the same reasons some people prefer coke to pepsi, and some smoke one brand of cigarettes over the others...

I think I know what you're trying to say but I would counter with that in these cases it's all about taste. You still get the same end result.

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#32 by Scott Miller
2002-04-17 15:20:59
scottmi11er@hotmail.com
I play games because I want to become a killing machine.  I've learned from the government that moving the mouse around on my desktop trains me to aims real guns and handle the recoil.  These valuable skills may one day save my life.  Well, if I ever buy an actual gun.

"A game should not be judged only on its appearance. It should be played before drawing conclusions." - Miyamoto
#33 by Matt Perkins
2002-04-17 15:26:09
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Martin:
I play computer games because they give me a chance to solve things, to play barbie with characters (dress them up in spiffy armor...I like the flamethrower in DS) and because I like to try to figure out how the designers of whatever game were thinking.  To me they are huge puzzles that I may never solve, if the puzzle is a good and interesting one.  I like to be challenged, not in the jumping puzzle sort of way, but in the what was the designer thinking here, how far along did they expect my character growth, did they expect me to attack the city from the backside, etc.  They also offer me the fun of perfection.  I'm a lazy perfectionist by nature...  I like to be perfect, but only if I don't have to be anal about it :).  In games, I can do just that...  I can have what I believe to be a perfect system, a AI dominating army, etc.  Then something gets thrown in and it all changes.  Though a boring puzzle is hardly ever fun.

In multiplayer, I like to do the same thing with people I'm familiar with.  I like to try to figure out thier weakness, their strengths, etc...  and then use that information against them.  That's one of the reasons I loved playing counterstrike so much...  Each round, if you watch the other team, they usually had weak spots where you could slip through and start killing the team from behind (my favorite way to kill in cs :) ).

I do play other games, I'm big in D&D again right now.  I like playing just about any sport that works at the beach, and I have an obession with football.  Though I play those games for different reasons... the team aspect and friends and all.

My name comes up in conversation when you mention teh spelin.
#34 by Matt Perkins
2002-04-17 15:27:03
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Scott:
I'm going to quote you and send that to the Senate!!!!  :P

My name comes up in conversation when you mention teh spelin.
#35 by Morn
2002-04-17 15:33:01
morn@planetcrap.com http://hmans.net
Duh!

Hendrik "Morn" Mans • morn@planetcrap.com • admin/coder/lover/kraut
#36 by m0nty
2002-04-17 15:35:35
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Well Martin, I take your point. Part of my annoyance was expressed by piramida in #26, in that your question implies that we decide on one over the other "24/7", as you put it. I play games, but I'm also a sports nut too - I play cricket every weekend during summer, and field hockey every weekend during winter, plus I have membership (season tickets) to my AFL team, and go whenever I can. I watch English soccer religiously. In my personal experience with nerdy friends, I am most definitely in the minority - few of my nerdy friends are particularly sporty, and few of my sporting friends are in IT - but that doesn't mean you can't have a well-rounded lifestyle. This is why I got my hackles up over your assumption that I am a gamer and only a gamer.
#37 by jafd
2002-04-17 15:38:38
Scott clearly spends too much time reading books; I mean, come on. I qualified for "killing machine" status by the time I was 14.

wizard, thanks for reminding me; I'm also interested in the Barbie aspect of games, very much so; although strictly as a sideshow, not the main attraction. For example, my Wizardry 8 party is all dolled up like a six-pack of high-class call-girls; within the limits of the game, that is, and not at the expense of their killing efficiency.

Or perhaps, in spite of it; if I can build a character in a "cooler" way, I'll do it, even if that coolness requires me to sacrifice some min/maxing power. However, in Wizardry, most of my interest in "cool" has to do with INSTANT KILL, so it isn't a big deal from a strictly success viewpoint. At least, that's what I tell myself.

I remember my house in UO, I was strict about keeping all the weapons in containers that were stacked as close to alphabetically as was feasible; I didn't do this strictly because that kind of attentiveness pleased me, it was so that I wouldn't have to fumble about for stuff that I was looking for.

I suppose the Barbie aesthetic in computer games boils down to... having large amounts of control over a "world," nearly instantaneously, and without the kind of effort that goes into contolling "coolness" attributes in the real world. I mean, gah, I'm not the kind of person to go out and go shopping for the latest thing to fit in with other people, but I remember burning through vendor deeds in UO just so that I could get one with a name that pleased me. Go figure.

You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
#38 by zimbardo_ugly
2002-04-17 15:39:34
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
Monty - "Martin, this is not payback - I am legitimately annoyed by the tone of your topic. It is silly, at best. What next, a topic asking why we use cars instead of rickshaws?"


That's pretty fucking confident coming from someone who submitted a zillion topics in the last few weeks - and note that I didn't say any of them were bad... but still.

- skazal Rzhevskij i razmazal govno po bil'jardnomu stolu. ...
#39 by Duality
2002-04-17 15:40:50
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
Well, if I ever buy an actual gun.

You should do like Hulka did and set up a donation fund to buy you a desert eagle.  Though I won't be hoodwinked into donating another $10 that won't actually wind up purchasing a gun ... just so you know!

You're the new nazis.
#40 by Hugin
2002-04-17 15:43:49
lmccain@nber.org
I do a lot of things besides play games...so, in some ways the premise sort of breaks down.  So do do sculpture and martial arts and tinker with machines and read books and watch movies and ride my bike and whate have you.  And I suspect a lot of other crappers do as well.  The best answer I've seen so far is piramida's.  I play video games because they let me "pretend" to do things or be things I am not for a short time, in fantastic settings.
#41 by Martin
2002-04-17 15:52:41
http://www.mocol.nu
#36 by m0nty
Well Martin, I take your point. Part of my annoyance was expressed by piramida in #26, in that your question implies that we decide on one over the other "24/7", as you put it.

I messed up that aspect, as well as some others. Sweeping generalisations can be your friend, but not always.

From the rest of your post it would seem as if you play games to get some variation. Would that be correct?

#37 by jafd
Or perhaps, in spite of it; if I can build a character in a "cooler" way, I'll do it, even if that coolness requires me to sacrifice some min/maxing power.

My dwarf in DS seldom uses any other weapon than a hammer or an axe. The only time I ever bring out the fast and deadly "non-dwarwish" weapons are when we get /really/ overpowered.

Go figure.

I'm trying to. 8)

#40 by Hugin
I do a lot of things besides play games...so, in some ways the premise sort of breaks down.

Yeah, I know I dropped the ball on that one. But the questions still stands, only that you don't spend your free time exclusively playing games.

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#42 by m0nty
2002-04-17 15:52:43
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Zim, I salute you for submitting a topic. I promise not to rip into it.
#43 by Duality
2002-04-17 15:53:31
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
Why is m0nty's submission of topics an indication of overconfidence?

He submits because 1) he has a lot to say, and 2) nobody else is bothering to.  Don't forget that its we who vote the topic in or not.

You're the new nazis.
#44 by m0nty
2002-04-17 16:03:18
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Variation? Hmm.

I suspect something of what you might be getting at in #0 is a big problem among gamers: obsessive compulsive disorder. All hardcore gamers suffer from this to some extent, as their psyche has been stunted somewhat from excessive playing of games during their youth, thus forming unhealthy patterns which have lasted well into adulthood.

I know that I suffer from a mild version of obcom myself, as when I buy a new game it becomes a singular focus for my entire existence, disrupting sleep patterns, destroying my fragile work ethic, causing overload on my hotline to the local pizza parlours, etc etc. (As an aside, Clans of the Alphane Moon by Philip K. Dick is a very funny book about various garden variety psychoses.)

Some "grow out of it", as you seem to have done for a while. Some learn to incorporate gaming into an otherwise normal psychological behaviour set. Others spend all day and night on #planetcrap, unemployed, jonesing for the next gaming fix and unwilling to tear themselves afk for any stretch of time longer than a day. Sound like anyone we know?
#45 by Ashiran
2002-04-17 16:05:42
The challenge for the mind.
And with challenge I DO NOT mean completly illogical puzzles in adventures or games that suffer from the "do-it-this-way-or-lose" syndrome.

That and I get bored quick so the fact that there will be always more games also helps.

I need my fix!

Beat me to death with my keyboard plz, kthx bye
#46 by Warren Marshall
2002-04-17 16:07:57
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
I play games for a few reasons ...

1.  I hate sports and most things dealing with other people.  Gaming is something I can do solo and if I -must- interact with others, I can do it online so at least I don't have to look at them.

2.  I make games, so I really should play them for research purposes.  Gotta see what other people are up to in order to stay on top of your game (so to speak).

3.  Because I've been playing them since I was a wee lad ... I like them, and they like me.  Leave us in peace!

WoT?
#47 by LPMiller
2002-04-17 16:43:58
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Martin in 27

You quite obviuosly know how to read and write. Have you tried painting or drawing? Modeling in clay, wood or ice? I know I'm stretching it a bit but just because I mention activities that requires some sort of athlethic effort doesn't mean that these are the only alternatives to games. God knows that a healthy body is good to have when partying but it sure isn't a requirement.


If you don't like the answer, you shouldn't ask the question. No, I can't draw, clay tends to continue looking like clay in my hands, wood is for burning, and ice for drinks. I play games and sit at a computer all day because that is what I was designed for. If I could do those other things, I would.

But I like playing games, reading, and watching movies. I'm not really interested in the deeper meaning behind why.

Will warez for food.
#48 by Martin
2002-04-17 17:06:52
http://www.mocol.nu
#47 by LPMiller
If you don't like the answer, you shouldn't ask the question.

Chill. I was just prodding a bit. And as I mentioned the only alternatives to games aren't sports, which is why I mentioned those other activities.

I play games and sit at a computer all day because that is what I was designed for.

Fair enough.

But I like playing games, reading, and watching movies. I'm not really interested in the deeper meaning behind why.

Then it's EOD I suppose. 8)

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
#49 by "flamethrower"
2002-04-17 17:21:50
I have all-but stopped playing most PC games, though I have a PS2 I barely touch it. I now spend my time socialising or training.

Games are great fun as a distraction, but you overdose and it becomes monotonous, gaming becomes that distant photocopy of a photocopy feeling from, yes, Fight Club.

Suddenly I feel alive again.

I play some PS2 games right now, some I.F. on my NT box, but the truth is the games have not kept pace with the tech.
#50 by Martin
2002-04-17 17:31:38
http://www.mocol.nu
Hmmm... Are you saying that great tech = great games?

-- Martin
Free love! As in "Free beer!" And "Free Kevin Mitnick!" I suppose. Only he's already free.
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