PlanetCrap 6.0!
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (2) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
T O P I C
Warez Your Head At?
April 9th 2002, 02:45 CEST by m0nty

I am sick of the donkey. There, I've said it. I'm sick of hearing about people, mostly Americans, warezing with little or no regard for the harm they are doing to the content industries. No wonder bad laws like the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act have been pushed with some success by lobbyists in Washington. What I want to know is, what is your internal moral justification for what amounts to stealing?

Now, I'm not taking a high moral stance on this myself. I have indulged in the offline warezing community myself, even being a member of a hacking group back in the 80s through which I purloined hundreds of Commodore 64 games. Hey, people call me Redbeard, so who am I to condemn piracy? These days, with a far higher disposable income, I buy all of my game software, apart from the occasional import from South-East Asian warez hotspots like Singapore and Thailand. I admit that I have a lax attitude to warezing professional software, as it is just beyond my budget. However, I commit to buying games at retail now because I want to support the industry, despite the fact that I could save money by buying a DSL line and sucking from the donkey 24/7.

I have seen the full range of moral positions here at PlanetCrap and elsewhere on the Net, ranging from script kiddies who have never bought an album or game in their lives, right through to the anal retentives who wipe their monitor screens with disinfectant if the word "warez" flashes up for an instant. Some argue that it's OK to warez stuff that you wouldn't buy anyway, like episodes of Invader Zim, Cowboy Bebop anime or Leonard Nimoy spoken word tracks.

Is the attitude of people like us reason enough for lawmakers to just assume everyone is going to copy, and thus to impose instant piracy taxes on recordable media? This debate has been going on ever since some nameless shmoe undercut Gutenberg, so will it avoid these draconian laws by moving the tech underground, or into different media? Am I kidding myself that my half-formed justification for piracy is morally defensible? What's your excuse? Are you kidding yourself?
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Warez Your Head At?

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
#1 by jafd
2002-04-09 02:50:15
EOD! EOD!

You must be ^this^ tall to ride the rollercoaster.
#2 by Max
2002-04-09 02:55:27
http://massivebraincase.org/
Amen. Some are pirates, some aren't. Some don't have a problem with it, some do. Some try to justify it, some don't. I don't care anymore.

This apathetic response brought to you by the phrase "Nintendo Game Cock."

-max
#3 by EvilAsh
2002-04-09 02:58:07
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
Looks at his boxes of games. And Smiles.
#4 by zakk
2002-04-09 03:00:38
zakk@timedoctor.org
This horse has been beaten to death. Why must you beat it's corpse?

-zakk
#5 by EvilAsh
2002-04-09 03:01:15
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
They like producing stockpiles of manure from the corpse.
#6 by EricFate
2002-04-09 04:05:21
It makes a satisfying hollow *thump* noise?
#7 by Matthew Gallant
2002-04-09 04:14:29
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
I am sick of the donkey


I am sick of this topic.

Marketing is a crutch for mediocrity and a handicap to excellence.
#8 by Hugin
2002-04-09 04:16:47
lmccain@nber.org
I don't steal games.

I don't steal TV or movies.

I've stolen one piece of application software. It cost 10 or 15 thousand dollars and I needed training in it to qualify for a job. I got the job and now use a legal version. *shrug*
 
I've stolen a bunch of music. Though I also buy more music than I did before I started stealing music, because I fall in love with so much weird stuff in the course of the stealing. Call it...20-25 percent more legal music buying, within a collection that's now about 30 percent stolen overall.

I steal for me, not to screw over "the man" or to make a statement about capitalism or disintermediation or whatever. I'm pretty at peace with that. I don't deny it's theft. *shrug again*
#9 by Duality
2002-04-09 04:19:14
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
Well yah know what's going to happen ... is that if we keep discussing it and, with a plethora of examples, trivializing -- or at the very least desensitize it to the point that everyone will do it!

You're the new nazis.
#10 by BabiG
2002-04-09 04:28:12
Speaking of stealing stuff and the donkey...

I must just have really bad luck, but I recently tried stealing some TV episodes after getting the donkey...but it seems everyone on the entire network is Busy. There were times I had 3 files "downloading", some 25-odd connections total, and each and every one said "On Queue". I appreciate the automation and everything, but it doesn't really help when you just sit there waiting for 45 minutes to get to the head of just *one* of these lines. I ended up getting it all off Direct Connect in less then half an hour instead, at least there you can be somewhat proactive in your stealing, even if it does take persistance. Is there some mystical Donkey/DonkeyBot secret I'm missing?

"God is dead." --Nietzsche, 1883
"Nietzsche is dead." --God, 1900
#11 by Greg
2002-04-09 04:34:05
Lets shift this topic from a warez topic (already covered in the last one and others) to one called: "Squeezing shit out the ass: How to successfully use the Donkey!"

Greg

-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having!
#12 by Creation
2002-04-09 04:34:38
thanatos_dm@evilemail.com
I download mp3s on a regular basis.  I see no point in paying $20 for a CD I may or may not be able to play on my PC, and only for one or two songs at that.  Singles aren't much better; I may or may not get the song I want on that single.

I don't warez games.  Not only can I play online with a legit copy, but I feel all good when I know I'm supporting the development of something I like (exception: Undying.  Crock of shit).

I don't have any DivX movies.  I've seen people at LAN parties with fifty some-odd movies on one hard drive.  That's damn insane.  And half of the movies sucked.

I only warez applications iff:

a) It's too expensive for my normal budget
b) I only use the program for educational purposes
c) I don't plan on distributing the content I produce with the program
#13 by Whisp
2002-04-09 04:35:27
#8 by Everybody

That's it, I'm putting a topic in the bin.  Enjoy.
#14 by JMCDaveL
2002-04-09 04:41:20
I just bought the Neptunes album yesterday, which I wouldn't have bought if I hadn't been peeking at mp3s of it for over a year. I buy albums by artists who deserve my money, even if they won't get much of it from the record label.

I've got Divx movies, VCD/SVCD cams and screeners, about 60 cds full of mp3s (a good deal ripped from my own collection, natch), I've even got some warez lying around. But you'll never hear me justify it.

Let the poor horse rot in peace.

--jmc
ICQ-121684 AIM-jmcdavel U=FAG0T
#15 by JMCDaveL
2002-04-09 04:50:19
LOOKIT MY COO TOPIC

--jmc
ICQ-121684 AIM-jmcdavel U=FAG0T
#16 by Matt Perkins
2002-04-09 05:32:52
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
It's hit simple...  steal or don't steal...  but don't say it's not stealing, dammit!

IF YOU TAKE SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T BELONG TO YOU, IT'S STEALING!

Ok, I'm better now.

Just be honest about it.  I still mp3s, I draw the line at games...  it's matter of preference.  but I'm damn well honest about it.

My name comes up in conversation when you mention teh spelin.
#17 by jjohnsen
2002-04-09 05:37:08
http://www.johnsenclan.com
I've got Divx movies, VCD/SVCD cams and screeners, about 60 cds full of mp3s (a good deal ripped from my own collection, natch), I've even got some warez lying around. But you'll never hear me justify it.


When in your lifetime are you going to listen to 60 cd's of mp3's?

I stole a couple of games a little while back using the donkey.  I soon discovered that I don't enjoy free games as much.  Maybe its because I didn't pay good money for them, but I erased them pretty soon after I started playing.  I think I force myself to get into games a little more when I've shelled out $40-$50.  Or I buy it off ebay for $15 six months later.

I've got movies and t.v. shows off the donkey.  Now they sit on cd's, taking up space in my cd case.  I guess I don't enjoy free enough to watch t.v. on my computer, or crappy quality vcds on my t.v.

#18 by LPMiller
2002-04-09 05:37:11
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I'm half Italian; I have a natural moral hole when it comes to property.

I download music I don't own. I've had a game or 2, I've done apps. I have pencils and pens from work. I speed. I once shot a man for snoring too loud.  I littered with cig butts. I owned a Game Cock before anyone could buy them. I drank underage. I've stolen cable. I have a router piping dsl to 4 PC's instead when really, I only pay for the one connection. I stole a kit kat bar when I was 7. I ate a peanut at the grocery store. Once I went to the movies, spent 20 bucks, got home and found i had 40 bucks in change. I was once 2 days overdue at the library. I have books that are missing the covers. I ripped that fucking tag right off the pillow.

I think most people that warez a copy of something will eventually buy the later version; I think folks that download a lot of one type of music will start buying those CD's. I believe are children are the future. I like cheese, but it gives me terrible gas.

I think the best way to keep warez under control, the best way to handle the mp3 explosion, is to offer a better product than I can download. CD's are better quality, DVD's offer extras and are cheap, software offers manuals and CD keys. Most people download because it's easy, but most of them buy because it's better. I think if the industries involved don't understand that, they are going to insure their own death, because people are mean fucks when they think they are getting jobbed, regardless of their being right or wrong. Irregardless. Whatever.

Will warez for food.
#19 by LPMiller
2002-04-09 05:38:46
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Sorry, I just don't see downloading TV shows as being any different then setting the VCR to fire up and record 90210 once a week.

Will warez for food.
#20 by jjohnsen
2002-04-09 05:40:41
http://www.johnsenclan.com
oh, yeah and I used an unregistered copy of winzip for a year and a half.

Thats what I feel most guilty about.

#21 by jjohnsen
2002-04-09 05:41:52
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Sorry, I just don't see downloading TV shows as being any different then setting the VCR to fire up and record 90210 once a week.


Maybe they are both illegal because eventally someone might put all the 90210 episodes on DVD.

#22 by LPMiller
2002-04-09 05:46:03
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
No, putting 90210 on DVD is what should be illegal.

Saving a show on Tape isn't illegal. Making money off that tape is.

Will warez for food.
#23 by Creation
2002-04-09 05:48:45
thanatos_dm@evilemail.com
No, putting 90210 on DVD is what should be illegal.


Recording 90210 should be a felony, no matter what media you put it on.

I hate you all
#24 by Gabe
2002-04-09 06:15:45
http://www.dartpublishing.com
The zen of the donkey is to not watch it.

You could learn a lot from a dummy.
#25 by Warren Marshall
2002-04-09 06:20:39
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
But you have to in case it crashes ... which it does at least once every 8 hours.  Sometimes you don't even get a crash dialog ... sometimes it blue screens XP.  The power of the donkey is limitless ...

I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
#26 by JMCDaveL
2002-04-09 06:21:23
I've collected those mp3 cds over the years, and many are just archival rips of my cd's I've had longer than I've had internet access. :)

--jmc
ICQ-121684 AIM-jmcdavel U=FAG0T
#27 by Gabe
2002-04-09 06:48:06
http://www.dartpublishing.com
Never had it crash. Luck of the Irish (lay off Gunp01nt!).

You could learn a lot from a dummy.
#28 by Leslie Nassar
2002-04-09 06:57:36
http://departmentofinternets.com
Morn, a cool feature might be the ability to bookmark ones standard response to warez.  That'd save people having to ctrl+c/ctrl+v their thoughts everytime some topic author goes the cheap route and re-spins the same old story.

i like monkeys.  are you a monkey?
#29 by VeeSPIKE
2002-04-09 07:09:33
Morn, a cool feature might be the ability to bookmark ones standard response to warez.  That'd save people having to ctrl+c/ctrl+v their thoughts everytime some topic author goes the cheap route and re-spins the same old story.


naaa, creating replies and insults on the fly and in the heat of battle is so much more exhilarating.
#30 by yotsuya
2002-04-09 07:23:30
M0nty, an obeservation:

I'm sick of hearing about people, mostly Americans, warezing with little or no regard for the harm they are doing to the content industries.
(emphasis mine)

If this were the case, why do most (if not all) of the illegal bootleg CDs, DVDs, and PC Games come from Asia. And why do most warez servers seem to be Russian in origin? I think warezing is a worldwide problem, not just limited to Americans.

Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
#31 by Creation
2002-04-09 07:25:24
thanatos_dm@evilemail.com
naaa, creating replies and insults on the fly and in the heat of battle is so much more exhilarating.


And a hell of a lot more interesting for those without the creative impulses to join in on the fun.

I hate you all
#32 by "Doctor Monkey"
2002-04-09 08:01:28
doctor_monkey@hotmail.com
If I can get something for free, I get it. I'm stealing. Yup. And I don't feel bad about it at all.

One caveat: If I really dig a game I got for free, I always go and buy a copy. Because I am then making a statement with my money, and supporting a product I love.

Second caveat: Sadly enough, for someone with few compunctions about stealing from people who aren't my friends or family...I don't really do it much. 95% of my games are legit, or demos. And I have lots of games. And 95% of the MP3s are rips from CDs I actually own, but am too lazy to switch in and out of my computer.

Third caveat: Monkeys throw poop.
#33 by "Evi|ivE"
2002-04-09 08:14:11
Whats with this "mostly Americans" crap?
#34 by Bailey
2002-04-09 08:16:35
Hugin

IF YOU TAKE SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T BELONG TO YOU, IT'S STEALING!

I prefer to call it "pilfering", because that makes me feel like some romanticized ne'er-do-well out of a Harlequin novel. I'm not even a filthy guinea like LP, so I really don't have a genetic excuse... well, except for that half irish thing. We'll liberate anything not nailed down, baby-eating potato farmers that we are.

I am laughing at the horror of being alive.
#35 by Bailey
2002-04-09 08:17:08
(sigh) That last comment was a reply to wizard, not Hugin. B'oh.

I am laughing at the horror of being alive.
#36 by m0nty
2002-04-09 08:17:32
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
yotsuya (#30):
If this were the case, why do most (if not all) of the illegal bootleg CDs, DVDs, and PC Games come from Asia. And why do most warez servers seem to be Russian in origin? I think warezing is a worldwide problem, not just limited to Americans.
I said it was mostly Americans that I, personally, had heard about it from. That's only because America owns the Internet, or something. If I was talking in IRC with Korean MMOG devotees, I'm sure I would also have ammunition to criticise Asian attitudes.
#37 by JMCDaveL
2002-04-09 08:22:44
ARRRR MATEYS WE BE LOOTIN AND PLUNDERIN!

--jmc
ICQ-121684 AIM-jmcdavel U=FAG0T
#38 by m0nty
2002-04-09 08:27:39
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Hugin (#8):
I steal for me, not to screw over "the man" or to make a statement about capitalism or disintermediation or whatever. I'm pretty at peace with that. I don't deny it's theft. *shrug again*

jjohnsen (#14):
I've got Divx movies, VCD/SVCD cams and screeners, about 60 cds full of mp3s (a good deal ripped from my own collection, natch), I've even got some warez lying around. But you'll never hear me justify it.

This is what I'm talking about. No one is being honest enough with themselves to admit that what they are doing is wrong. This is the attitude which allows the piracy tax on recordable media to occur, so you can't complain when it happens. All of the people using the donkey and KaZaa and all the other Napster descendants are pushing up the price of digital content for the rest of the law-abiding population. This is why computer games cost US$50, not the US$20 sweet spot like they would in a world without piracy.

LPMiller (#19):
Sorry, I just don't see downloading TV shows as being any different then setting the VCR to fire up and record 90210 once a week.

I don't know what the exact law is in the US, and IANAL, but in Australia it is technically illegal to tape TV shows. Everyone does it, but that doesn't mean you can't still be prosecuted for it.
#39 by Bailey
2002-04-09 08:34:39
m0nty

This is what I'm talking about. No one is being honest enough with themselves to admit that what they are doing is wrong.

You expected beating of chests and gnashing of teeth? People are comfortable with the act of theft, and they go on with their lives.

I am laughing at the horror of being alive.
#40 by m0nty
2002-04-09 08:43:29
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Well Bailey, speaking as a good Catholic boy, I expected more people to have guilt complexes, at least. Damn Protestants, eh Deadlock!
#41 by jafd
2002-04-09 08:49:01
I'm sick of hearing about people, [...] warezing with little or no regard for the harm they are doing to the content industries.

Aside from monty being a big fat racist, he's got a decent point here.

I am also sick of people stealing with little or no regard for the harm they are causing the content industries. Really, if these fuckmonkey "pirates" would just get their act together, those RIAA punks would have gone bankrupt already!

What gets me is all these people who are acting as though the distribution industry has a right to exist, or something. What about the invention of the refridgerator? Before just about every person in the civilized world had the ablity to just open the door and grab a few ice cubes whenever they felt like it, the creation, transportation, and storage of frozen water was a very big deal.

Was there a big hue and cry from the Ice Delivery Men Association of The World when refridgerators were developed and put on the market? No, probably not, and if there were, the peals of laughter were probably 10x loud enough to drown out their feeble cries.

The difference here is that publishers have been bending over the marketplace for so long and so hard, they have huge amounts of money to throw around. Ultimately, it doesn't matter; who's that King who ordered the tide to turn back? King Fuckmonkey, was it?

The previous state of affairs when it came to monkeymaking off of the duplication and distribution of media is simply no longer viable. The meteor has crashed into the planet, the air is choked with dust, and the dinosaurs are all thrashing and wailing about, trying to survive. Unless the Internet somehow magically just goes away, charging people out the ass for certain categories of "goods" just ain't gonna happen any more. It's all about services, in the digital media world; people will pay for immediate access to downloads they want to have badly enough, if they don't want to wait the necessary 0-3 weeks and put in the effort to just get a copy of a copy of a perfect copy.

My main point of curiousity is; do the big publishers actually understand this, and are doing all this flailing about simply to maximize what remains of the juice of the lemon as cleverly as possible? Or are they actually sitting in their million-dollar hovels, desperately scheming up a magic bullet to kill the wolf that the buying public has become? I assume the former; I fear the latter.

I say "fear" and not "laugh uproariously at," because there's little more dangerous than a cornered, mortally wounded wild animal.

At any rate, all forms of warez == theft. I'm sure that the English Royalty of the time thought that the nascent Americans thought they were being "robbed" of "their" land when the Declaration of Independence were signed, just as the Aztecs and Incas et. al. thought they were being "robbed" of "their" land when Cortez showed up and started kicking ass and plundering loot.

The former example was "justified theft." The latter was a travesty. Anyone care to dissect the reasons why? Come on, it'll be fun.

You must be ^this^ tall to ride the rollercoaster.
#42 by Bailey
2002-04-09 09:04:24
m0nty

Well Bailey, speaking as a good Catholic boy, I expected more people to have guilt complexes, at least. Damn Protestants, eh Deadlock!

Well, you know us "mostly americans". No sense of shame and all that.

I am laughing at the horror of being alive.
#43 by Charles
2002-04-09 09:09:31
www.bluh.org
I agree with jafd.  The recording industry is a relic now, and it's sole consideration is it's own survival.  For those reason, I put music 'piracy' on a different level from piracy in general.  Especially when you hear stories about how the RIAA regularly rapes it's own artists.  Fact is, musicians don't need the recording industry anymore.  Not when they can sit down with their home PC and make their music, put up a webpage, and share with the world.  And use sites that allow more direct sales (and reimbursements) for their music.  

I've been trying to break myself of my habit of purchasing CDs, since it costs me so much money.  Nowadays, I try to only buy cds at concerts, and from bands' webpages, when I can.

#44 by m0nty
2002-04-09 09:10:07
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
A racist? Moi? No. As I explained above, it's only because I hang out on IRC with Americans talking about the donkey all the time that I said that.

On the other hand, I am the creator of the aus.flame.usa newsgroup, which is not exactly something to crow about, I know. Sadly, my charter wasn't archived by the Wayback Machine.
#45 by "Antichrist"
2002-04-09 09:29:11
I use pirated copies of Window XP and 3D studio Max (and about 50 more programs with net worth of up to half a million bucks). Do I feel guilty......no! And never will! I bought couple of legal copies of software and games, but I only done it to the games I loved. I feel we're doing good thing by pirating shit games like C&C: Renegade and RTCW and hope companies that made them will go bankrupt!!
I own about 100 legal music CDs. I spent shitloads of my money on them, I don't want to do it anymore, I gave that industry enough money already now I'm gonna take everything for free!
#46 by Mank
2002-04-09 09:38:01
mOnty in #38
I don't know what the exact law is in the US, and IANAL, but in Australia it is technically illegal to tape TV shows. Everyone does it, but that doesn't mean you can't still be prosecuted for it.


I program the VCR to record A&E's Biography whenever I know I'm not going to be home in time to watch it. It's on Cable, I pay for this cable service, so I have a right to watch said programming, regardless of when that might be. If a friend of mine missed the same show, and is interested in watching my taped copy, I gladly lend him the tape. Should I be worried if he pays for cable or sattelite service as a moral indicator of my right or wrongdoing? *shrug*. I remember when I was a child and having to support my music tastes with a 5 dollar a week allowance. Myself and anyone that I knew practically wore out cassette tapes recording thier favorite music directly from the radio since we couldnt afford the actual LP or cassette. I will NEVER feel guilty about having to do that. Simply because they made cassette players with a record button....and I'm somehow supposed to feel guilty about pushing it?...bah.

Now, if I were to have made a few hundred copies of the songs I recorded off the radio and sold them at school, I would have been crossing the line. And, if someone rips an MP3 and posts it for download on the internet they are doing the same exact thing. Morality, conscience, scruples, and the disregard for actual laws aside, if the internet is unable to police itself, then you can bet that there is an organization or two funded by Uncle Sam who are quietly waiting in the wings for the oppurtunity to do it for us.

...on the outside looking in, banned by an epiphany at an EB store....
#47 by Steve Gibson
2002-04-09 10:02:27
http://www.shacknews.com/
I copy everything, that's my job! haha oh man I kill me!

I think I'm in the same boat as a lot of guys... When I was poor I'd do the warez thing, as I got older I'd just do it less and less... and now not at all. I'm looking around on my drive trying to find something that wasnt paid for.. I think the last thing I had wasnt paid for was an SSH client.. that set me back like $90, ouch.

I think its great that software developers like the 3DSMax and Photoshop guys are starting to realize that they need to lower the level of entry and have cheaper versions. I wonder how that is going or if there really is any way to measure that.

hrm uh.. ok i think Im just randomly rambling with nothing to add. Just trying to escape my own forums for a bit I guess. :)
#48 by "Anonymous"
2002-04-09 10:13:47
To be honest, I never tried "the donkey" until I saw it here, and to be honest it sucks. Half of the P2P programs out right now are utter garbage. Just look at how many of them have spyware(Limewire/Bearshare), ads beyond belief(Morpheus) and just plain suck(Gnutella and it's brothers). What amazes me is all of the people that either assume or believe that if it wasn't for the P2P clients, they would never be able to get the music/apps/games that they wanna try out. Jesus noobs, most of the people that have TONS of music, games, or apps are not sharing them on the P2P networks, their either on IRC, running an ftp site, or uploading them to newsgroups.

Bottom line and the point to my rant is that the only thing P2P networks and programs are designed to do is get mainstream people connected and for someone to make a fast buck. People saw Napster getting millions in financing and want to get some. What they apparently didn't see is what happened to Napster once they got greedy and tried to make as much as possible. Btw, if you believe Napster is ever coming back online, I have some land in the Everglades I wanna sell you.
#49 by Bailey
2002-04-09 10:25:22
Heh. Everything sucks until you know how to make it work. They didn't name it "the donkey" on a whim, it's a stubborn, obstinate, surly program, but it's a hell of a workhorse for file transfer if you know how to get it moving and find what you want. Napster, Morpheus, Donkey, each replaced the last. As soon as they get greedy, it's over, and Donkey'll die off inside of 6 months to a year if the trend continues. After which point there'll be a new, better system after that.

I am laughing at the horror of being alive.
#50 by zakk
2002-04-09 10:25:54
zakk@timedoctor.org
Stevie G
Just trying to escape my own forums for a bit I guess. :)

The only thing left on the shacknews forums is making fun of xian and Crusader.
Speaking of which, does anybody have any pictures of xian?
He needs to get on my pictures page.

-zakk
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Warez Your Head At?

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
P O S T   A   C O M M E N T

You need to be logged in to post a comment here. If you don't have an account yet, you can create one here. Registration is free.
C R A P T A G S
Simple formatting: [b]bold[/b], [i]italic[/i], [u]underline[/u]
Web Links: [url=www.mans.de]Cool Site[/url], [url]www.mans.de[/url]
Email Links: [email=some@email.com]Email me[/email], [email]some@email.com[/email]
Simple formatting: Quoted text: [quote]Yadda yadda[/quote]
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (2) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
There are currently 0 people browsing this site. [Details]