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Nintendo's Online Strategy, Or Lack Thereof
April 7th 2002, 17:13 CEST by Max

In this Seattle Times interview with Peter MacDougall (Nintendo's Executive VP of Sales) regarding the direction of Nintendo and the GameCube, some statements are made about Nintendo's strategy that strike me as shortsighted.

MacDougall mentions that Nintendo has no current plans for putting the GameCube online. With Microsoft set to announce their online XBox strategy at E3 next month, and Sony having already laid out their plan, it seems to me that Nintendo needs to accelerate whatever internal plans they may be making. They're already seen as being behind the other two in the current console race due to a shortage of games.

Is Nintendo doing the right thing by holding off from online implementations until broadband is more ubiquitous and console gamers are more used to the thought of Mario online?
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#1 by WeeMadArthur
2002-04-07 17:15:48
smarteyman@interia.pl
First!!!!
[^_^]

Kittens fucking burn.
#2 by Matthew Gallant
2002-04-07 17:19:53
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
Well, if they do come up with something, I suppose it will have to include a schizophrenic personality detection chip.

Marketing is a crutch for mediocrity and a handicap to excellence.
#3 by m0nty
2002-04-07 17:54:29
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Answer to #0 in a word: yes. Perhaps I'm biased because I'm from Australia, but I'm still skeptical that the broadband community is big enough yet to be a viable market. I know they're early adopters, AB demographic, high disposable income blah blah blah, but I would venture that there aren't enough broadband users yet for a niche device like the Gamecube. Yes, it is a niche, in the broader sense.
#4 by Warren Marshall
2002-04-07 18:05:24
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#1

Congrats!  I guess now you can die happy.  Please hurry ...

I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
#5 by Neale
2002-04-07 18:08:04
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
Can you actually have a broad niche then? I thought a niche by definition was narrow.

Eradicators! - www.eradicators.co.uk
#6 by m0nty
2002-04-07 18:16:23
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Well, I meant that the Gamecube might not be a niche device in relation to the subset called "gamers", but it is a niche product in relation to the general public. I hope that makes better sense.
#7 by Dis
2002-04-07 18:21:41
rcn.p@virgin.net
I can't honestly see online console gaming taking off for a long time. Not only is there a charge (still relatively pricy here in the UK) for the broadband connection itself but there will also be a charge to access the Sony/MS/Nintendo content. Double whammy there then. All that on top of the initial console and game purchases. Sure, it may well work out to be a similar cost to a cable/DSL everquest player, but I don't really think that lies in the financial sphere of the mass market average joe. I know I sure as fuck can't afford it.

So in answer to the question....I don't think Nintendo really need to worry about getting behind the technological curve here. At the end of the day I suspect that they will use the GBA to muscle their way into the online market if/when it finally looks like becoming a major source of profits.
#8 by Gunp01nt
2002-04-07 18:32:53
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Might be a good call from nintendo to stay with the old fashioned singleplayer or multi-controller play, where all the others are focussing on online multiplayer. It'll make Nintendo a good alternative for people with less money to spend on internet or without broadband.
It also helps to keep Nintendo systems 'for the kiddies' because no internet connection means the little rugrats won't be exposed to porn and extreme violence when playing on their nintendo

"I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
#9 by EvilAsh
2002-04-07 18:38:09
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
Hey Warren why didn't you take your own advice.. you have done the

I posted first routine before.

DAmn hypotwit.
#10 by deadlock
2002-04-07 18:49:15
http://www.deadlocked.org/
I'm sorry, but FUUUUUUUUUUUCK OFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!! It's bad enough that Empire insists on obscuring it's reviews with a fucking flash ad for fucking Jeepers fucking Creepers but now Gamespot makes you bastard sit through a fucking stoopid flash ad for god fucking knows what before you get to the fucking first fucking page proper. Fucking cunts. I hate the internet

you think you're funny ? I'll cut a hole in your head and piss through it...
#11 by deadlock
2002-04-07 18:50:03
http://www.deadlocked.org/
And then I test the link that I just posted and it doesn't. Fucking bastard.

you think you're funny ? I'll cut a hole in your head and piss through it...
#12 by Tom Cleghorn
2002-04-07 18:50:52
Hm. I suspect they're probably going to do just fine without online features in the Gamecube... after all (and I might be wrong here, so feel free to shoot me down in flames), the whole online console thing just hasn't taken off yet. As Dis says, in a lot of countries, it's still just too expensive for the demographic that consoles traditionally aim for (and probably always will be, if they continue to aim at teenagers).
Time will tell, I'm sure.

Hit me - I'm wasting valuable time.
#13 by Neale
2002-04-07 18:56:15
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
That's pretty much true - broadband is still pretty much the exception in the UK (and, I suspect, most of Europe), so the market really isn't there for it yet.

I was quite interested to hear a report on the Radio 1 (mainstream UK national radio station, for non-UK types) news that the Xbox had pretty much flopped in Japan, and wasn't doing too well in Europe. They even linked it with MS's president quitting. Rumour though it may be, it starts to pick up credibility when put across to the masses.

Another thing that struck me about it was that they had to mention that the Xbox was a Microsoft product. This fits in what I've thought - nowhere in any advertising for the Xbox have I seen Microsoft's name or logo. Are they trying to distance the negative image that goes with their name from the Xbox? Hmm...

Eradicators! - www.eradicators.co.uk
#14 by Tom Cleghorn
2002-04-07 19:08:55
Are they trying to distance the negative image that goes with their name from the Xbox? Hmm...


Wouldn't put it past them... there's no way they could be unaware of their generally bad name.

Hit me - I'm wasting valuable time.
#15 by deadlock
2002-04-07 19:14:18
http://www.deadlocked.org/
I read an interesting article in yesterday's Irish Independent about the 'failure' of the X-Box in Japan (it didn't mention Europe, for some reason). The writer pointed out that MS' first forays into any market is usually met with indifference and the products themselves tend to be below par, Microsoft's philosphy being that any press, even bad, is good press. Excel, Word, Access, even Windows - the first incarnations were all shite. The few years after the product has been released are spent improving it, marketing it and hammering the competing products. The point being that you shouldn't rule Microsoft out as a console name purely on the strength of X-Box1's performance. X-Box2, if MS' past history is anything to go by, will do much better.

Of course, the article does point out that the X-Box is unusual in that it is an accomplised product from the outset, so past experience may not be an indication of how things will turn out.

There seems to be a bit of lag between the hardcopy of the Independent and the online version, so I'll post a link if and when the article goes online.

you think you're funny ? I'll cut a hole in your head and piss through it...
#16 by deadlock
2002-04-07 19:21:12
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Tom Cleghorn:
Wouldn't put it past them... there's no way they could be unaware of their generally bad name.

I'm not being facetious, but is that 'generally bad' to those of us who actually know what Microsoft's infractions are (and are aware of the often questionable quality of their products), or 'generally bad' to the wider public ?

Personally, I don't think that the millions of people who purchase Microsoft products everyday, or PCs with MS products already installed, see anything other than a well-known name and maybe have some vague notion that there is something not quite right about the company.

You could argue that the XBox target audience does tend to be more in the know than most people; but that target audience also knows enough to know that Microsoft manufacture the XBox, no matter how much MS has done to distance themselves from it. That said, the fact that Bill Gates appeared in person at the launch in Tokyo is a giveaway :P

you think you're funny ? I'll cut a hole in your head and piss through it...
#17 by Duality
2002-04-07 19:27:06
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
I'm almost afraid to see what the Xbox2 will be like if this sort of hardware is considered a 'first shite incarnation.'

I think its going to take a good while before Internet gaming for consoles becomes a standard.  The main reason it took off for PCs was because of public servers.  If it weren't for the fact that you didn't need to pay to play online, outside of the game and connection, online gaming would not be where its at now.

I can see Xbox gamers playing with PC gamers.  Or, at the very least, give people the ability to run the server-side application on a PC, even if its an Xbox game.  But if they keep it a pay-to-play service, it won't hold.  How many people actually paid for services like MPlayer compared to the numbers of players on the public servers?

You're the new nazis.
#18 by Duality
2002-04-07 19:28:43
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
You'd be amazed at how many people dislike MS just because the media has spun them a reason to.

You're the new nazis.
#19 by Paul
2002-04-07 19:34:35
GAMECUBE:

Nintendo HAS TOLD US their Game Cube online strategy. It is: they are going to WAIT and let Sony and MS spend big bucks working out a system. Once Sony and MS have a viable, working, potentially successful product, then Nintendo will copy whatever they do, put a Mario spin on it, and sell it massively.

This saves Nintendo big bucks during the research stage.

And this is if GC even includes a network system. I'd bet it won't, and I'd bet instead Nintendo is saving all this money in research now, to invest MS/Sony ideas in the next Nintendo Console to be released in 4/5 years when more people in America, and world wide are online.

- Paul

Paul A. Bullman, Board Certified Crapologist.
#20 by Paul
2002-04-07 19:38:22
Duality:

You'd be amazed at how many people dislike MS just because the media has spun them a reason to.


I wouldnt be surprised. It's also the typical big man on the block is a bully syndrome. MS is a bully, but that's good business. Most people, especially Americans, have this David vs Goliath syndrome. Many people see themselves as victims(or others as being given their success unfairly), so they tear down those more successful.

MS is the most successful. Therefore, people rip on them. But how many people who rip on MS use MS? A far majority do. Actions speak louder than words, and people talk too much..

Paul A. Bullman, Board Certified Crapologist.
#21 by BobJustBob
2002-04-07 19:56:30
from the article: "some airy-fairy technology"

Hehe. GameCube is going online, just not going overboard. The GC modem is supposed to be out soon alongside the new Phantasy Star Online.
#22 by VeeSPIKE
2002-04-07 20:09:51
I'm sorry, but FUUUUUUUUUUUCK OFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!! It's bad enough that Empire insists on obscuring it's reviews with a fucking flash ad for fucking Jeepers fucking Creepers but now Gamespot makes you bastard sit through a fucking stoopid flash ad for god fucking knows what before you get to the fucking first fucking page proper. Fucking cunts. I hate the internet


And your reward for sitting through 30 seconds of bad music and flashing red things? Gamespot's black and purple website, with a Flash scyscraper ad on the side, and a pop-under. "and the people were over-joyed. (yay)" Almost enough to make you want to disable Flash

On topic, yeah I think they are making the right decision. With the broadband roll-out (particularly xDSL) being as spotty and unmanageable as it is, and the industry itself going through early birth pains, I think it is wise to wait a little longer. Once broadband becomes a true consumer item (meaning anybody who wants it can get access) and the industry becomes more stable, it will make more sense to start resting hopes in that market.
#23 by Neale
2002-04-07 20:34:01
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
Jeepers fucking Creepers


Quite possible one of the worst bastard films I have ever seen. Utter shite. I mean, really, really shite.

Eradicators! - www.eradicators.co.uk
#24 by deadlock
2002-04-07 20:45:12
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Neale:
Quite possible one of the worst bastard films I have ever seen. Utter shite. I mean, really, really shite.

I enjoyted it actually. It was the first horror I've seen in a loooong time that actually had me on edge; I liked that it eschewed the post-modern 'irony' of more recent efforts (it even looks like it was made in the 70s). The plot was a bit Stephen King, but I did like the fact that the outcome wasn't as predictable as one might have expected. The only thing that I could see wrong with it was that they revealed the bad guy too early, but that's a minor criticism.

That said, I ain't gonna buy it, because once you've watched a horror all the way true, it generally doesn't warrant a second viewing (since the element of surprise has been removed).

you think you're funny ? I'll cut a hole in your head and piss through it...
#25 by Warren Marshall
2002-04-07 20:50:22
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
EvilASh
Hey Warren why didn't you take your own advice.. you have done the

I posted first routine before.

DAmn hypotwit.

Here's a tip : it's better to let people think you're stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
#26 by skalmanxl
2002-04-07 20:59:36
I do think that consoles can make a splash online, didn't PSO do really well on the DC?
Sure it sucks to have to put up cash to play online, but doesn't quite alot of those mmorpg players do that?

Consoles can do well online, the BB-availability is still the major downpoint in this though. I for one look forward to playing Unreal Championship on the Xbox, although I'd rather upgrade (well, I'd rather have the cash to upgrade first) in order to play some UT2 (I refuse using the stupid new names) and U2.

*Welcome to the land of the digital*
#27 by None-1a
2002-04-07 21:11:43
And this is if GC even includes a network system. I'd bet it won't, and I'd bet instead Nintendo is saving all this money in research now, to invest MS/Sony ideas in the next Nintendo Console to be released in 4/5 years when more people in America, and world wide are online.


It sort of does. On the bottom is a port to plug in an adapter once they're released, they wheren't included to keep cost down. I don't really expect it to get much use (likly even less then the X-box/PC2 setups), but then again I don't really expect Nintendo to realy put much behind the GC anyway.
#28 by jjohnsen
2002-04-07 21:48:51
http://www.johnsenclan.com
#11 by deadlock

  
 And then I test the link that I just posted and it doesn't. Fucking bastard.


They only show the ad every 20th time you visit or something.   I'd rather have that then going to ign and be locked out of most articles because I won't pay.  Take a piss while the ad is showing just like when you are watching t.v.

#29 by Bailey
2002-04-07 22:08:57
Regarding Jeepers Creepers... The two kids annoyed the piss out of me. I'd gladly have held them down for devilboy to do his thing to them if it got them to shut the fuck up. Seriously. With these two hands. A terrible movie, really. I'll never understand why they insisted on putting a line in there describing the flesh museum under the church as the "House of Pain", yo.

Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
#30 by Rambar
2002-04-07 23:29:52
Damnit, this is what happenes when I'm not around to vote no on every topic.

--
Rambar
#31 by deadlock
2002-04-07 23:33:33
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Bailey:
The two kids annoyed the piss out of me.

That'd make it a happy ending for you then, no ?

8)

you think you're funny ? I'll cut a hole in your head and piss through it...
#32 by Bailey
2002-04-08 00:13:55
The girl survived, didn't she? We're one death short of a happy ending.

Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
#33 by crash
2002-04-08 01:34:20
from topic:

With Microsoft set to announce their online XBox strategy at E3 next month, and Sony having already laid out their plan, it seems to me that Nintendo needs to accelerate whatever internal plans they may be making.

yeh, nintendo better get off their asses and get an online strategy, because so much money is being made hand over fist in online console games they'd be fools not to get a piece of that pie. microsoft and sony are practically printing money with their online console applications.

oh, wait.

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
#34 by Martin
2002-04-08 02:15:23
http://www.mocol.nu
Jeepers Creepers: Not all that bad but not especially great either. Lots of stupid things and a couple of nice things.

And now you know.

-- Martin
Hunkalicious since 1972!
#35 by Bailey
2002-04-08 03:05:14
Info request:

Trying to convert avi to mpeg in order to clear up a video/audio sync issue in this movie. The program I had was TMPGEnc, which apparently some people recommend. However, when I go to actually convert something, it beeps and pops up a little message stating: "MPEG-2 trial period has ended." I have no idea what that means, or how to resolve it, as the program is so very helpful. So if someone can either tell me what I need to do to avert this MPEG-2 issue, or a better avi->mpg converter, I'd certainly be appreciative.

Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
#36 by EvilAsh
2002-04-08 03:40:23
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
ooh Warren please that was... So hurtful. I can sense the anger flowing.. Oh wait.. you can't beat Jk2. wrong reference for you.
#37 by Dumdeedum
2002-04-08 04:02:41
http://www.dumdeedum.com
#35

VirtualDub is free and probably does what you want.

Plumsies Taker!
#38 by Martin
2002-04-08 04:23:11
http://www.mocol.nu
Bailey: MPEG2 is for SVCD and that is not free with TMPGEnc. You coud convert the clip into VCD format by selecting that template instead and it should work, albeit the quiality will be less than great. VirtualDub will not work as it's only designed to save clips as AVI and not MPEG. It can read MPEG but not write.

I really haven't got any other progs to use. Check www.divx-digest.com or similar sites to find some utils that might be useful.

-- Martin
Hunkalicious since 1972!
#39 by Bailey
2002-04-08 04:27:50
Danke.

Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
#40 by Bailey
2002-04-08 05:20:51
Ah, most excellent, that VCD solution worked perfectly. Some slight loss of quality, but better than the movie ending a full five minutes before the audio did.

Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
#41 by chris
2002-04-08 05:38:01
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.cerebraldebris.com
This generation of consoles is not going to be significantly impacted by online multiplayer.

It might've, but the companies fucked the dog on it. The PS2 requires an add-on for broadband multiplayer, so you can forget it. Add-ons do not sell in this country. The Xbox will gain a foothold, but probably little else, particularly given that they STILL do not have any real solutions in place.

Not to pimp my own company, but they could've just fuggin bought our matchmaking tech, and been up and running at launch. That's what it's there for. Oh, and for anyone who's about to pop up with some sort of "but your tech sucks" line, two things: 1. Ours not only *exists*, but it works. 2. Is the zone really a better option?

The GameCube? Who cares? Sega fell last year... watch for Nintendo to go entirely handheld with their hardware in another year or two, though probably still existing as a software publisher on other platforms. Sony owns the market now, and Microsoft is going to take whatever Sony hasn't got, within another hardware cycle or two. Any bets?

-chris
#42 by chris
2002-04-08 05:42:04
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.cerebraldebris.com
hmm... sorry if that sounds bitter. Fucking dog-cock ass bitch fucking daylight saving time pisses me off. I get to LOSE an hour of my day, for the sake of having MORE sun... that's so wrong it's physically painful.

-chris
#43 by Warren Marshall
2002-04-08 05:49:17
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
EvilAsh
ooh Warren please that was... So hurtful. I can sense the anger flowing.. Oh wait.. you can't beat Jk2. wrong reference for you.

See my previous reply.

I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
#44 by Bailey
2002-04-08 05:58:09
We should start a paypal account up to buy Warren a real troll.

Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
#45 by Greg
2002-04-08 06:18:40
Chris:

It might've, but the companies fucked the dog on it. The PS2 requires an add-on for broadband multiplayer, so you can forget it. Add-ons do not sell in this country.

I agree. If the system does not include support for it companies won't code to it. They don't like spending their money to create a game that satifies a 2-level deep market. If there were 100 people who bought a console, the most games a company could sell is 100. But they won't because not everyone will buy the game. Factor in an add-on that only 10 people have and the most games the company could sell is 10. But they won't, for exactly the same reason as a regular game, except the market is significantly smaller.

So the only way to get a company to have a significant market is to give the add-on away for free (N64 4MB memory pak), or have it built into the system to begin with. The latter is why only the XBox has the potential to bring many users online in this console generation.

Greg

-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having!
#46 by m0nty
2002-04-08 09:40:30
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
This FCC report gives some interesting statistics on US broadband take-up. It is important to distinguish what they call "high speed services", where EITHER upload or download speed is above 200kbps, and "advanced services", which they define as BOTH upload and download being over 200kbps.

* There were approximately 9.6 million high-speed (including advanced services) subscribers, as of June 30, 2001, a 36% increase during the first half of 2001, and a 250% increase from the FCC?s Second Report issued in August 2000, (which included data from 18 months ago, December 31, 1999).

* 7.0% of American households subscribed to high-speed services, up from 4.7% since January 2001, and 1.6% in the FCC?s Second Report issued in August 2000.

The two growth figures - the 36% increase over six months, and the 250% increase over six months - plot a fairly steady compound graph, meaning that broadband usage (both high-speed and advanced services combined) is expanding at around 85% annually. This means it probably hit 13 million at the turn of the year, is around 16 million now, and will near 24 million by the end of this year. That last projection would put broadband subscriber numbers at 10 per cent of the US population.

Other highlights from the full report:

A recent report indicates that in June 2001 the United States had a broadband penetration rate of 3.24 per 100 inhabitants. Only three other nations had higher broadband penetration rates -- Korea at 13.91, Canada at 6.22, and Sweden at 4.52.

Note that when they talk about household penetration, they assume there are about 107 million households in the US, with 240 million citizens. Thus, a household penetration of 7.0% is equivalent to 3.24% per capita.

Results of the Commission?s data collection show that there were a total of approximately 7.8 million high-speed residential subscribers, as of June 30, 2001. We estimate that approximately 4.3 million of these residential customers subscribed to services that meet the Commission?s definition of advanced services. By comparison, we stated in the Second Report that there were approximately 1.8 million high-speed residential subscribers at the end of 1999. We estimated that approximately 1.0 million of these residential customers subscribed to services that meet the Commission?s definition of advanced services.


At the end of June 2001, of the 7.8 million residential customers who subscribed to high-speed services, approximately 5.0 million subscribed to services using hybrid fiber-coaxial (HFC) technology (such as cable modem service), approximately 2.5 million subscribed to ADSL services, while the balance subscribed to other media, including satellite and fixed wireless services.
#47 by Martin
2002-04-08 12:14:29
http://www.mocol.nu
#39 by Bailey
Danke.

NP. Glad you solved it.

There is a site over at Digital-Digest called Nicky Page's Digital Solutions. He's no longer updating it but there are a lot of tips and tricks on digital video. One of those was about the problem you had (IIRC) and involves (again IIRC) ripping the audio and then resyncing it in VirtualDub so that you still have the AVI intact afterwards. I'm not entirely sure though.

There are a lot of other interesting things  to read over at the site if this stuff floats your boat.

-- Martin
Hunkalicious since 1972!
#48 by jafd
2002-04-08 16:30:19
When a console becomes something that I plug my PC into, rather than something I might be able to plug into my PC, then, I'm interested.

In the meantime... console broadband solution? I have a cable modem right here. What's the problem? If the thing can't coexist on my extant network... fu.

You must be ^this^ tall to ride the rollercoaster.
#49 by _Fury_
2002-04-08 17:02:05
ajhill@wi.rr.com
Yes jafd, but your console-negativity is legendary. You've gone so far as to call them 'dongels', as if they were some attatchment you needed to play PC games. When, in fact - PCs are just expensive email machines that can be used to play console games...

Witty Quote
#50 by jafd
2002-04-08 17:15:27
I'm not negative to consoles at all. I will enjoy consoles very much! Just as soon as, you know, they are worth the money.

As it is... what good are they? They let you play some software titles that can't be played otherwise. Whoopie, like I'm running out of PC games to play, or something?

I only referred to the Xbox, specifically, as a dongle. Which it plainly is, from a marketing and practical standpoint, if not a techinically accurate one. "Want to play Halo? Great! Buy this large hunk of plastic and metal and silicon! Please!" \/\/.

The only thing I'm really negative about is all this proprietary bullshit. For instance, I dearly want to play ICO. And Rez. But to do so... I have to go out of my way.

No thanks. I'll just wait 1-10 years and emulate it on a PC, thankyoukindly. Uhm... why not? Is it a race? Is there some dire need to play these games right now? No, there is not.

If I'm going to pay extra money to subsidize a fledgling industry, I'll buy recycled paper products. Mr. Sony, Mrs. Microsoft, and Ms. Nintendo can all struggle for market superiourity without my assistance, that's fine with me. I'll swoop in a few years from now and play all the good games, without having to deal with all the monotonous crap.

You must be ^this^ tall to ride the rollercoaster.
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