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Mickey Mouse wants to rule the world
March 29th 2002, 01:19 CET by Gunp01nt

I'm sure you've all heard of the new CBDTPA (Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act ) bill (article here), which when going into effect, will require every single piece of software of USA origin (including embedded software) to be fitted with government approved security software to prevent hacking and code stealing (copyright violation).

It also covers any type of digital media made in the US, which is to be fitted with special government-approved technology to prevent possible breach of copyright. That's because the bill was founded on a proposal from Disney.

But the software part of the bill is probably the most disturbing for us Crappers, as it prohibits Americans from using non-government approved software, whether on CD or downloaded or whatever. This means a serious blow to open source, because this type of software is more often than not unrelated to a specific company or nation. Therefore every single Linux geek writing an API or even the simplest program ever, will have to get government approval before he can share the software online or anywhere else.

According to the US government, the countries united in the EU could be forced to pass similar laws, because of the WIPO treaty signed by both the USA and the EU countries. This could mean a huge blowback for the software industry.

Think about it: every single little piece of software (down to the Windows clock, as mentioned in the linked article) would have to get that government approved software coded into it. Then it would have to be checked and approved. This will undoubtedly take a long time, and it'll stretch release dates even further than they are getting stretched already!

And I'm not even mentioning the obvious advantage that companies such as Microsoft (or Disney) will have over small software companies or individuals. Software from large companies is quite probably going to have a higher priority and will therefore be checked and approved a lot faster than other people's software.

What disturbs me about this are two things:
First, the limitations on 'the international flow of software' that the CBDTPA implies (I'm not even sure if Americans would be able to use PlanetCrap anymore, unless Morn gets US government approval).
Second, the possibility that other countries will be forced to do the same thing! The CBDTPA is completely ridiculous, but if the American government at least keeps it to itself, the disaster isn't that big yet. But the US government could force all EU countries to adopt the CBDTPA and that's what I don't like.

News of this is already out there a couple of days, and I'm surprised it hasn't been discussed on Planetcrap.

So I urge you to discuss it now: is this bill really a wise move, or is it part of Mickey Mouse's plan to TAKE OVER THE WORLD?
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#1 by crash
2002-03-29 01:23:52
ping.

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
#2 by jafd
2002-03-29 01:24:01
I'm trying to imagine what will happen if some law gets passed that will turn a substantial number of people into criminals overnight.

Not like that's ever happened before, or turned out all good when it did. Hilarity ensues.

"JWITIWO... TPMBI!"
#3 by jafd
2002-03-29 01:24:39
Wussmaster. Not even an attempt. tsk, tsk.

"JWITIWO... TPMBI!"
#4 by crash
2002-03-29 01:33:59
this story/legislation smells like the V-chip to me. will most likely have the same results. of course, don't let rationality get in the way of the sky falling. can't believe Wired published a chicken-little story like this.

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
#5 by Max
2002-03-29 01:40:59
http://massivebraincase.org/
Dunno... I wouldn't underestimate this thing's chances because of the corporate firepower behind it. More idiotic things have been done and survived constitutional challenges.

-max
#6 by HoseWater
2002-03-29 01:55:26
barneyque@hotmail.com
This thing might seem like it has a chance, but at this point, I think only one side has really been beating the drum.  I have been getting the feeling more recently, that as this becomes a more serious thread, the silent sane majority will rise above this, and in the end, we will find something in the middle that makes no one happy, but is not draconian in either direction.  At least thats the worst outcome I am expecting to have to deal with.  

If not, the consumer tech industry is stopped dead in its tracks, and the entertainment guys walk away with the pot.  Two groups basically fighting over the same pot of cash.  I personally, would like to see the entertainment boys kicked down a peg or two.  Problem is, they are scrambling like mad for anything that will put a buck in the bank at the moment since they are in a bit of a downturn at the moment, and are stumbling around trying to find the way out.

Should be fun to watch, its definately one of those topics I can get really worked up about, but this time, I am just buying some popcorn, and I am going to sit on the sidelines and watch this smooth itself over (I hope).

1968-2002 Robert 'HoseWater" Lloyd
#7 by The_Joker
2002-03-29 02:11:47
http://www.jackinworld.com
Gunp01nt will be very happy when he wakes up in the morning.

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
#8 by bishop
2002-03-29 02:13:32
http://www.darkintel.org/00FF00/
Max's icon owns.

Felix the cat was the reeto.

if it's not felix, go to hell.

May the end of the world be warm and smoldering.
At least for some of you.
#9 by LPMiller
2002-03-29 02:20:54
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
It could be crash...but then, few thought the Digital Copyright act would pass, or that it would survive the supreme court.  I know you would never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

The Suns rays are made up of many atoms.
#10 by Max
2002-03-29 02:34:26
http://massivebraincase.org/
I wanted to be cool and have a kitty, but Felix was the closest I could bring myself to go.

#9 - LPMiller

Yep.  I mean, ye gods, they banned alcohol in this country. They've already outlawed entertainment once; what's to stop it from happening again?

-max
#11 by JMCDaveL
2002-03-29 02:49:50
I can't believe you guys didn't vote my topic in, now it's gone forever. :(

--jmc
#12 by jafd
2002-03-29 03:02:59
I set the bar, buddy.

Limbo! How low can you go!?

"JWITIWO... TPMBI!"
#13 by crash
2002-03-29 04:11:32
cute!

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
#14 by "Paul Bullman"
2002-03-29 04:12:42
paul@shrinkweb.com http://www.paul.mu
Crash:

Well i'm insane, because i find it to be annoying. Although it does perfectly portray my feelings of redneck race car drivers.
#15 by crash
2002-03-29 04:13:08
for some reason it cracks me the hell up.

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
#16 by Greg
2002-03-29 04:41:11
I can't wait until Fritz Hollings tells me I'm out of a job. The scope of the bill is what is scary. If the bill focused on music or videos, then maybe there is a way to deal with it. But the bill wants copy protection for everything that can be copied digitally, and also, computer operating systems would only be allowed to run approved code. Government approved code, no less. So I can't make some little utility or game and give it away to people without getting it approved. Which probably costs money that I'm not going to spend to get a utility approved.

At least there is a grandfather clause, because I predict people will stop buying systems as soon as the grandfather period runs out.

Way to potentially screw up the economy just so you can get some more scratch, Fritz.

Jafd, I agree, hilarity will ensue if this bill is enacted.

Greg

-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having!
#17 by None-1a
2002-03-29 05:17:40
Software from large companies is quite probably going to have a higher priority and will therefore be checked and approved a lot faster than other people's software.


Maybe someone knowns more but I was under the impression that it didn't work like this. They desided on a standered technology every one would use it end of story no approval process involved (now shipping something with out the technology would oviously end up in court, a fine, ect). No reason for an aproval process when it's expected that you do it anyway. O and this quote from the article seams to say that is exactly how it would work.

Anyone violating the CBDTPA would be subject to statutory damages ranging from $200 to $25,000 per violation. An irked content owner would have a quiver of legal arrows to aim at a violator: Search warrants, impounding or destruction of equipment used in the illegal activity, plus attorney's fees, reimbursement for lost profits and actual damages.


That'd work in the copywrite holders favor quite a bit by giving them a way to go after any competitor via legal means (think along the lines of all the Sun vs. Microsoft cases). They could clame a fear that the company isn't planing on using the technology and hold up the release in court (of course making sure their own product would be first to market), even the company was in fact planing on using it the whole time.

Also the clock thing was a stretch not a hard example. It only overs hardware and software that makes it possible to violate copywrite, by "sweeping definition" they mean any thing cabable of saveing and loading stuff (that would of course mean 99.99% of software but the clock thing was a streatch for shock value with out pinning a number pulled out of his ass to it).
#18 by LPMiller
2002-03-29 05:23:38
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I hope it passes. The Italian side of my family hasn't had near enough to do of late. Oh sure, the Sopranos have given us some respect, but I'm pretty damn tired of hearing about how good it was in the day. Damn, we need a good Al Capone. Fuck Chris Crawford, get me Kelly Frock with a fucking bat. Mafia's back, baby!

They pass this, and damn if I won't open up a...um....LANeasy.  We'll have bootleg operating systems from Russia, and we'll get in our cars and drive the backroads, with harddrives full of mp3's and ebooks, while that fucking Elliot Ness's of the world pretend they are something other than lucky. Fucking Elliot Ness. Pussy. People ask where we got the fancy PC's that have a strangely crooked "USA Approved" sticker on 'em, I'll tell the nosy bastards it fell off a truck, I just won't tell them the truck was in Poland at the time.

Someone gets in our way, we'll smack 'em around with routers and whip 'em with cat 5. Fuckers will be sleeping with the fishes.  Sure, I might die from VD and rot in jail for tax evasion, but they'll make cool movies about me.  Then some dink like Elliot Ness will get more credit then he is worth...fucking pussy. You weren't good enough to lick Frank's shoes, you limey fuck!

Be wops standing in the shade, while neighbor kids with shiney new dollars go up to strangers and go "Pssst, buddy, I got some Nomads, buddy, Nomads!" Be some broken fucking legs too when they get behind payments on those CDRs.  "Sure sure buddy, you just want to back up some jpgs.  And if Brittny fucking Spears latest song just happens to fall on there, well what the fuck, right? Get the fuck outta here!"

God I need some new soprano episodes.  Sorry...half italian, sometimes it just...shines through.

The Suns rays are made up of many atoms.
#19 by crash
2002-03-29 05:24:18
"sometimes"?

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
#20 by LPMiller
2002-03-29 05:26:58
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
yeah ok, so I supress the swedish side of me...do you blame me? Not too many cool swedish movies out there. At least, not with clothes.

The Suns rays are made up of many atoms.
#21 by crash
2002-03-29 05:30:43
dude, you've got a baby shootin the world the bird. if that don't scream "italian"...

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
#22 by LPMiller
2002-03-29 05:42:18
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I have a video tape of an ultra sound taken of my kid, and I swear to god she flips off the nurse in it. God, I was so proud.

The Suns rays are made up of many atoms.
#23 by JMCDaveL
2002-03-29 06:46:12
Eat a queer fetus for jesus.

--jmc
#24 by Sgt Hulka
2002-03-29 07:19:29
Peter Pan II, Sleeping Beauty II, Lady and the Tramp II, Alladin II, Beauty and the Beast II, Hunchback of Notre Dame II, Cinderella II..

Judging from sales figures, people actually buy this garbage.

.....Yet Another 0l$en Twin Approved +12 Post!
#25 by "Tyberious_Lesbian"
2002-03-29 08:12:46
Tyberiousv3_11@hotmail.com http://www.testcase.net/tybo/
Friend sent me a link to this..

So, my simple question is what the hell are we computer jockeys going to do?  I take screen-caps and record snipits of audio tracks from movies, TV shows and games, all of these are probably quasi-illegal acts but I still don't see the need to go so overboard to stop it.  Worse yet, all my friends who I work on webpages, shell scripts and the like with are going to be violating it every time we email each other a bugfix!  I think I and most other people I know would lose interest in life from this limitation, where do they get off ruining everything for the rest of us just to save their own asses the extra 200 bucks from the ten whole people who download the latest disney movie every year?!
#26 by Ashiran
2002-03-29 09:34:28
#0 by Gynp01nt
According to the US government, the countries united in the EU could be forced to pass similar laws, because of the WIPO treaty signed by both the USA and the EU countries.

Right... US goverment can back out of any worldwide treaty at will (and does so often) yet other countries are expected to hold op their end of the deal? Funny in a not so funny way.
Then again seeing the complete spinelessness of the EU countries regarding US foreign policies they actually might be right.

#16 by Greg
So I can't make some little utility or game and give it away to people without getting it approved. Which probably costs money that I'm not going to spend to get a utility approved.

Great huh? While I'm all for a more centralized approch regarding (open source) software creation pulling a bill like this basicly squelches a gigantic number of potential ideas.
All new stuff would come from existing companies. And we all know how good existing companies are with thinking up new and innovative stuff.

This isn't progress, this is taking steps back.

Bite me. No I'm serious, bite me.
#27 by Max
2002-03-29 10:25:51
http://massivebraincase.org/
BTW, as far as the DRMI built into everything... I still don't see how that's going to stop the 'headphone jack to Line-In port" method of duplicating anything you can play on your machine - unless part of the bill forbids you to record ANY sound without there being embedded DRMI.

-max
#28 by Darkseid-D
2002-03-29 12:48:03
rogerboal@hotmail.com
Welcome to 1984(tm).

Disney will be escorting you to room 101 very shortly, please ensure double plus good thoughts citizen.


every pc, every jot consumer electronics would have to be altered/updated/replaced, or jailtime/fines,  no more linux, no more open source, no more mp3s, no more peer 2 peer, no more games (cmon they get to restrict what can and cant be shown, what makes you think the `for the children` brigade wouldnt lever pressure on the constrolling companies), no more choice.

If America implements this bill as it stands, say goodbye to its entire economy.

Its a bill that takes the rights and priveleges of the people away from them, then walks their control right past the government and into the welcoming maw of corporations. *shudders*


Ironic however, the alliances against it.  Microsoft and Linux advocates in agreement saying `fuck no`, AMD and INTEL saying `fuck no`, Philips electronics saying `fuck off`.  Seems that the main proponents are the global conglomerates looking for their next cash cow to justify themselves to their (already rich) shareholders. Disney deserves to burn, theyve become a PHB`d juggernaut trying to rake in as much cash as they can without doing anything much for it.  Im not against companies making money, I object strongly however, to the nature in which some of these companies go about it.

Irony #2, Disneys Toon Town featuring, all kinds of anti corporate messages, the enemies (cogs) had names like Ambulance chaser, Middle Manager, legal shark, accoutant. Seems the body of the beast doesnt always agree with the head of the beast.

Ds

Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
#29 by jafd
2002-03-29 13:26:35
I hope it passes. The Italian side of my family hasn't had near enough to do of late...

Sir, you are my new hero. Thank you kindly.

One additional item; who's going to beta test all this stuff that's being proposed? What? Are they going to farm out that labor to the 3rd world, as well?

Come to think of it, the world needs more hilarity. This bill would have my complete and total support! Because if multinational conglomerates are this stupid as to think this is a good idea, then only a clusterfuck of this scale could possibly be a big enough bucket of cold water to wake them out of their wealth-induced stupor.

Meanwhile, every time two closed-minded idiots kill each other, God makes another kitten. Please, think of a world with more kittens and less idiots.

"JWITIWO... TPMBI!"
#30 by Gunp01nt
2002-03-29 15:22:46
supersimon33@hotmail.com
woohoo! first topic on frontpage!

WIPO treaty here. (WIPO = World Intellectual Property Organisation)

The CBDTPA was a proposal from Disney, and even though software companies hate the act, Disney and Fox Corporation both support it, and I suspect many other movie studios will too. And THE way of getting a bill passed in the America of today, is having it backed with money.

Every major American movie studio = a whole lotta money. More than Microsoft.


None-1a:
They desided on a standered technology every one would use it end of story no approval process involved

From Digitalconsumer.org:
"A standard for copy protection is as premature as a standard for teleportation."

And I think there's a good point in that. How can they assure that this security standard is full proof? And what if it gets hacked? Every hacker in the known universe will no doubt be on it so it should get hacked in about a nanosecond. Then what? all the software should be updated again?

Greg:
this story/legislation smells like the V-chip to me. will most likely have the same results.


again from Digitalconsumer.org: (emphasis mine)
In 1998 Hollywood went to Congress with a proposition: give them greater copyright protection and they would unleash a tidal wave of legal, downloadable digital movies and music for consumers to enjoy. As a result, Congress passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).


"I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
#31 by None-1a
2002-03-29 16:18:06
How can they assure that this security standard is full proof? And what if it gets hacked? Every hacker in the known universe will no doubt be on it so it should get hacked in about a nanosecond. Then what? all the software should be updated again?


All I was saying is that there isn't an approval process for all software, just a standard that would be used in it. For example lets say I turn out SUPAREdit 20000, all I'd need to do in use what every standard the government says is ok at the time and ship, no need to send it off to get their approval first.

It would of course if passed need updating from time to time (tho I do see that happening just look at the shit job they've done on the encryption recommendation).

I'm not saying I agree with it. I don't, it's possibly the stupidest thing any ones tried to get passed (I don't think it'll pass in it's current form at lest for the simple fact I don't think we've elected that many people that aren't bright enough to see that). But the glareing error that ALL software would need approved just can't be overlooked.
#32 by jafd
2002-03-29 16:39:13
In one respect, this is a stupid topic, because everyone knows that this law is clearly bullshit.

Well, everyone that we know, anyway.

"JWITIWO... TPMBI!"
#33 by Gunp01nt
2002-03-29 16:39:19
supersimon33@hotmail.com
None-1a:
But the glareing error that ALL software would need approved just can't be overlooked.

Well I'm sorry about that. I guess I misread the Wired article, although I wasn't the only one to make that mistake because an article on Dutch site Tweakers.net said something about software needing approval and several of the comments on the article said so too.

But the rest of my topic still stands, though, and I sincerely hope it doesn't pass. If it DOES, I hope the EU won't be the lap dog of the US government that they are now (especially the Netherlands, my own country).

I might just vote for Pim Fortuyn after all :)

"I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
#34 by Maarten Goldstein
2002-03-29 16:45:41
Yikes, Pim Fortuyn. Don't do it Gunp01nt :)
#35 by Gunp01nt
2002-03-29 16:57:23
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Maarten:

I won't. Someone who presents the solution to internal fraude in the justice department as: "Go and investigate all that stuff!" ("Uitzoeken die hap!" - literally from his book!) will never get my vote.

"I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
#36 by Tom Cleghorn
2002-03-29 17:29:10
crash: I was laughing almost as soon as the sound started... I may seek help.

Well, here we have proof that the USA *still* wants to rule the world, in full fascist fashion (note the smooth alliteration and neat internal rhyme there).
Seriously, I can't honestly bring myself to believe that'll ever pass any lawmaking body on the planet. Even if it does, I can't see it being particularly easily-enforceable. Time will tell.

Hit me - I'm wasting valuable time.
#37 by Tom Cleghorn
2002-03-29 17:32:00
In fact, now that I've thought about it, I'm quite pissed off... I mean, doesn't the US Government have more important things to worry about right now? Not least, how best to keep Bush from fulfilling his natural instinct to be a twat...

Hit me - I'm wasting valuable time.
#38 by Hugin
2002-03-29 17:38:24
lmccain@nber.org
#30 by Gunp01nt
Every major American movie studio = a whole lotta money. More than Microsoft.


Not really.  Trying to estimate the size of the coffers of the american movie industry is difficult, there's a lot of "creative accounting" happening, and there are always questions about where one business ends and another begins with multimedia empires.  But I think it's safe to say that Microsoft and the movie industry both have enormous but for practical purposes roughly equivalent amounts of money to throw at this.  

However, once you get past Microsoft alone, the numbers stop being roughly equivalent.  Revenue-wise the movie and music industries (since the music folks are part of that side of things as well) as a whole are utterly dwarfed by the software industry.  If this comes down only to money (which I don't think is true, but who knows), then by that standard, the music and movie people will lose.
#39 by Tom Cleghorn
2002-03-29 17:38:32
And again:

Sillier laws have been passed. Someone's already mentioned Prohibition, but there have been sillier. For one thing, according to popular legend (I've never checked out the truth of this, but it sounds very plausible, and I like to choose to believe it), marijuana wasn't banned for any narcotic reason - apparently, at some point in the 20's, rope companies began to get undercut by people using hemp to make their rope, and they were big enough to force a bill banning it through the US Congress, and later across most of the world. So, if that's true... it's about as silly as it gets. Let's face it, weed is god's way of telling us he wants us to be stoned :)

Hit me - I'm wasting valuable time.
#40 by Gunp01nt
2002-03-29 17:39:20
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Tom 'Foghorn' Cleghorn:
Seriously, I can't honestly bring myself to believe that'll ever pass any lawmaking body on the planet.


well, Hollings has support from at least 3 other senators, and is backed by both Disney and News Corporation. those last two are ringing (or should I say bling-blinging) endorsements... :(

"I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
#41 by Ergo
2002-03-29 18:56:49
All movie studios = more money than MS? Microsoft is reputed to have around 19 billion dollars of LIQUID revenue.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.
#42 by crash
2002-03-29 19:39:02
tangential thought: best exchange from Blade 2:

Blade: "You human?"
Guy: "Barely. I'm a lawyer."

cheesy, but the guy's delivery was perrrfect.

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
#43 by Martin
2002-03-29 20:58:15
http://www.mocol.nu
I'm watching Blade 2 tonight. Didn't like Blade at all but I'll give it a chance.

-- Martin
Hunkalicious since 1972!
#44 by Greg
2002-03-29 21:00:29
There is one difference in the way the money is distributed in the entertainment industry vs. the tech industry that no one has thought of and may be a problem. The entertainment industry is consolidated pretty much into a handful of companies both for music and video. However, the tech industry has their own handful of giants, but there are thousands of smaller companies that couldn't make a dent themselves but when added up generate much revenue.

Greg

-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having!
#45 by BabiG
2002-03-29 22:12:17
Okay, while I try to BS some way that this is relavent to the thread, here's a problem I've been having...

A friend, who at the moment I'm wishing would recieve some minor bodily harm to his nether regions, was using my computer while I was away, and clicked on some ad and accepted some activeX control, that has completely infected my system. Without exaggeration, I've had viruses that were less pervasive.

The damage...about 7 icons on my desktop, around 40 new bookmarks in my favorites list, 5 new entries in the start menu, 2 entries above the start menu, a crapload of entries into the registry, 3 quicklaunch icons, a bunch of shortcuts in my My Documents Folder, a new toolbar, a new default home page that when you change it reverts back to the spam one, and a new search page.

All of those I've been able to get rid of eventually...the one that's still around is that where there's a "Page not found" error in the browser, it redirects to the spam "portal" site. I haven't found anyway to fix that, I turned off "Helpful error messages" in IE, but that doesn't change anything. Anyone know how to get rid of it?

Also, anywhere you can see (and get rid of) all the ActiveX or VBScript or Plugins or whatever that're installed? Ive gotten rid of most of the symptoms, but the seed is probably still there...

"God is dead." --Nietzsche, 1883
"Nietzsche is dead." --God, 1900
#46 by Max
2002-03-29 22:18:04
http://massivebraincase.org/
C:\{Windows|WinNT}\Downloaded Program Files\

Get Ad-Aware, too.

-max
#47 by BabiG
2002-03-29 22:22:10
Ah, thanks...

Yea, I have Ad-aware, it didn't pick up anything...I guess since it got "permission" to whore itself out...grrr...

"God is dead." --Nietzsche, 1883
"Nietzsche is dead." --God, 1900
#48 by Duality
2002-03-29 22:32:36
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
BabiG: Don't tell me ... LOP.com!
#49 by BabiG
2002-03-29 23:26:53
YES! It's those fuckers...any info how to wipe them away or sue them or something?

"God is dead." --Nietzsche, 1883
"Nietzsche is dead." --God, 1900
#50 by jafd
2002-03-29 23:28:11
BabiG... just reinstall Windows. It might take longer to do that and then reinstall all your apps, but you will have the 100% knowledge that the offending crap is gone, gone, gone.

If you total up all the time you spent dealing with the crap, removing the crap, asking people about removing the crap, double-checking your computer to make sure the crap is gone... I don't know that reinstalling Windows really will take longer.

Additionally, it probably isn't a bad idea to change your registration details for Windows, and the age of the system, et cetera, because it's a damn sure thing that any foul scumware that infects your system to the degree you describe, is probably going to transmit an asston of your personal information back to Scumbag Headquarters.

Barring that, however, AdAware, yes. But can you honestly say that you'll have that fresh and clean feeling ever again on this installation? Dunno about you; I wouldn't.

"JWITIWO... TPMBI!"
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