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T O P I C
It's Not Console vs. Computer - HONEST!
March 3rd 2002, 14:56 CET by UncleJeet

For years, console gaming existed completely isolated from computer gaming.  You had video games, and you had computer games, and that was that.  I had an old Apple ][ and a NES, but I never imagined playing Mario on my PC or King's Quest on my NES.  It was apples and oranges.  Sticks and stones.  Oprah and diets.

Today, however, can you really separate consoles from pc's?  Sure, but it's getting more difficult.  We have ports of existing ports which are ported to so many systems that even the whorish Crazy Taxi would blush with embarrassment at the shameless promiscuity.  What is a console game these days?  Hell, with the Xbox and its fancy little hard drive, how much longer are we even going to have Save Points, in all of their obnoxious glory?

Now, don't think that I'm complaining here - because I do think it's a fine time to be a gamer.  However, when we stop and look at our PC games being "dumbed down" we must all consider the fact that console games are, at the same time, slowly being "smarted up."  Eventually, we'll see a common ground meet where the PC enthusiasts are happy with a sufficient amount of complexity, and the console kids are thrilled to no longer be constrained to only smashing - when a whole new world of bashing will be open to them.

Let's face it - console gamers don't want complexity.  Most console gamers aren't thirtysomethings with pizza in the fridge, Star Trek on the tv, and bizarre alien sex vixen posters on their walls.  Most console gamers are younger and active and know what it looks like outside when the moon has a lie down.

That being said - PC gamers don't want insipid little run-and-gun half hearted first person shooters that have been so raped and dumbed down so as to be a rendered mere shells of the potential games they could have been if only they'd been made on the PC.  We're happy Halo is on the Xbox and not our computers.  On the console, it's a fabulous FPS.  However, if I'd let it take up residence in the prime real estate of my computer's hard drive, it would have found an eviction notice on its door within the hour.

There's nothing at all wrong with Halo - it's just that I would expect more of it if it was on my PC instead of my Xbox.  Halo's got style like Old Navy has white trash - but it's got very little in the way of sophistication.  It doesn't have much of a soul.

For the James Brown of gaming, you have to turn to a PC.  I really don't know why this is.  There's no reason a complex game can't work on a console.  The Final Fantasy games, while excellent in every respect, are still pretty simple games with pretty simple plots.  (Having numerous plot 'twists' and character deaths do not make a plot complex.)  Compare the latest FF to something like Ultima 4...or 5...or 6.  Is there a comparison?

Now, having said all I've said - where do we go from here?  It's simple - PC games go down, console games come up, and we meet somewhere in the middle.  Let's face it, the inevitale "home entertainment system" is on its way, no matter how much we all, pc and console gamers alike, try and fight it.

Will this be a good thing?  Who's to say, really.  All I know is that Morrowind better be more like Daggerfall than Gauntlet, or I'm going to Maryland and having a discussion with Bethesda ala Rodney King.  And if Metroid Prime is more like Quake that Metroid - well, I'm sure with a little lubrication, I can fit my Gamecube into some pretty uncomfortable places for the guys over at Retro.

Ah, but what the Hell do I know?
C O M M E N T S
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#1 by Bezzy
2002-03-03 15:23:10
painberry@hotmail.com http://www.antifactory.org
I dislike the fact that PC games and console games are segregated in the way they are. I would much prefer a wider range of game styles on all platforms than the idea that you buy one platform for a type of game. That seems silly to me. Games are games are games. Platforms ought to be irrelevant. I certainly hope that the unification of platforms isn't creating a unification of game types, too, because more than anything, I want variety.

There is no just cause that a fool will not follow. HALLO MISTAH!
#2 by sentinel
2002-03-03 15:48:36
Actually I used to own Nintendo consoles for platform games, Sony consoles for fighting games and a PC for other things entirely (my work) but ended up using it for shooters as well. That said, I did play fighting games on the Nintendo, as well as RPGs and I also played an occasional RTS or RPG on the PC.

It's not as segregated as you think. It's just that they all have a different main target audience and basic line-up, and that's fine.
#3 by Matthew Gallant
2002-03-03 16:21:16
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
"Segata Sanshiro!"

"Buy Sega Saturn, god damn it!"

Marketing is a crutch for mediocrity and a handicap to excellence.
#4 by Hoe Muffin
2002-03-03 16:23:05
poontanger@hotmail.com
Look, there are a lot of console games that were complex back in the day (Street Fighter, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters) and right now (MGS2, MvC2, SFA3, FFT, GTA3). In fact, I'd argue that Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo was at least as complex, if not more so, then any PC game out at the time. But I agree with Sentinel, it's not as divided as you suggest, espciailly now. However, to a certain extent, there are certain games that may never jump the boundary. Namely, I'm thinking of Flight Sims and RTS' for the PC. The best console RTS I've played was Herzog Zwei, and that was a LONG time ago. Flight SIms to a lesser extent, since those appear to appeal to a more select, non-console audience. On the flip side, there are no good fighting games that made it over to the PC. And all PC fighting games sucked: Rise of the Robots (1&2), and One Must Fall (brrrr). Except, maybe, GGX. The problem is, the keyboard sucks donkey nut when it comes to playing these sort of things. And control pads don't fair any better, mind you: IMO you really need to build a joystick from the ground up or go to www.massystems.com and order one. Sorry, I tend to be anal about these things.

On a somewhat unrelated rant, now that you bring up FF, I'm getting increasingly annoyed at Japanese trend towards movies-instead-of-games. FFX is one prime example: I swear, you can't go five steps in that game without being interrupted by some CG. And Titus' voice makes me want to die, so that doesn't help things at all. Word of advice to Square: Stick to the thought bubbles! And FFIX was an excercise on planting your rear down on a set of rails and sending you off, that was quite possibly the most blatant abuse of plot to make the player do what the designers want I've ever seen (though supposedly, Xenosaga is much, much worse. Grrrrrr). Square makes good games, if you like Square games. If not, tough luck. Also, the same goes along with Metal Gear Solid 2.



*Spoiler Alert*





In addition to my utter hatred of wuss-boy Raiden being the main playable character instead of the infinitely cooler Snake.


*End Spoiler*

The game is almost ruined by its so-called cinematic plot (there was a plot? Must have lost me somewhere), and the aforementioned problem. Oh yeah, it's short as hell too (unless you count the roughly 7billion hours of movies).
#5 by Warren Marshall
2002-03-03 16:32:54
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
You mean you didn't like listening to wuss-boy argue with his girlfriend every time he called in to save or get information?  I'm surprised.

Ugh.

"Um, honey?  I'm in the middle of a top secret spy mission ... can we DO THIS LATER!?"

I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
#6 by "ProStyle"
2002-03-03 16:40:48
prostyle@phreez.com
I basically feel that gaming and these two platforms are inevitably going to converge, as Jeet has said, but I have my doubts about how quick Halo on PC would end up in his trash bin after his first massive CTF match with incredibly low pings and bleeding edge FPS. Considering that, I think that's definately something prevalent we may have passed over here (altho the focus of last thread). Games as a whole in their respective areas have highly different expectations from their "target audiences", and ontop of that here we are (the vocal minority). I don't think it's fair to totally dismiss Halo on a PC platform because it would have been built around multiplayer and mod-a-bility as basically every FPS game that expects to have any shelf life these days is. And sure maybe the single player got a bit circular but jesus, at least it was pretty, and that's more than can be said about alot of current "advanced" pc titles wherein the single player is basically uninspiring placeholder graphics for mod authors to fuck around with later and maybe turjn into something keen. I don't even own an Xbox but I do see alot of potential in Halos' engine and physics from the couple of times that I have played it. And, btw, it's the only game engine that's felt like "solid" playing to me since the quake series and would love to see it ported in one way or another but I'm not sure how it'd work out when the "universal system" comes around. Computer gamers love to tweak, hack, slash, rip, add, subtract and do whatever they like with whatever is on their computers and that's especially true for video games. Console users don't. I'm thinking it (mods/models/gametype upgrades) end up being a half-assed "content delivery system" that only allows (or forces) company made upgrades to be installed but nothing else, and seeing as we're a wee outnumbered by the pokemon kiddies I think we're in for a bad trip of corporate rape and censorship somewhere down the road. Oh, wait, did I say down the road? :P
#7 by Leslie Nassar
2002-03-03 17:15:38
http://departmentofinternets.com
Yeah, consoles and PCs will converge about the same time as games and film, but not before the internet and TV.  Whatever.  Convergence theory pundits are so 1994.  Say hello to Nicholas Negroponte on your way out at the soup kitchen.
#8 by sentinel
2002-03-03 17:15:39
Actually, this whole mod-community thing might actually prevent this supposedly imminent convergence.
#9 by Duality
2002-03-03 18:20:31
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
I won't be caught dead playing shooters on a console until a viable control system like the keyboard and mouse is developed.  Keyboard and mouse for the console itself is a nice step, but I sit on a couch when I play consoles, I don't sit at a desk.  I'd need one of those big breakfast trays or something if I tried to do that otherwise.

*smooches*
#10 by UncleJeet
2002-03-03 18:59:09
#6 - Prostyle:

  You make some good points.  When I was talking about Halo, I was only griping about the single player experience.  I should have made that clear, my mistake.  I agree with you, though - Halo on the PC would be great because of the multiplayer aspect, as pretty much all FPS are.  I long for a great single player FPS experience again.  At least we have people like Warren Spector that have the balls and the vision to push the genre beyond multiplayer frag fests - but his titles are few and far between.

#7 Leslie Nassar:

  That may be, but wait and see the direction Microsoft is going to start subtly taking the Xbox along with their next console system.  Microsoft wants a home entertainment unit, and so does Sony.  When you have two out of the three console forces wanting to go this way....along with countless PC developers porting to, or making content exclusively for, consoles - it's going to happen.  Why spend a few million bucks on a PC title that sells 100,000 units when you could make some modifications to it, send it to a console, and sell 500,000?  I can understand you wanting to keep hope alive, but this is the really real world - and last time I checked, the grass is green here.  What color is it where you're at?  :)

#9 Duality:

  Yes, a better control system needs to be invented.  Halo surprised me with how good the Xbox controller worked with it, but while it's leaps and bounds above other control implementations (for FPS's) on consoles, it's still a piece of shit compared to the keyboard/mouse.

Peak 37 is the ants!
#11 by Leslie Nassar
2002-03-03 19:29:10
http://departmentofinternets.com
UncleJeet:

The real world has seen the likes of Hawkins and Negroponte prognosticating convergence for a long, long time.  It's always "just around the corner" and claimed to be "inevitable".  It's neither.

Ignoring the multi-function purpose of a PC and concentrating on the gaming aspect, what incentive do PC developers have today to target the X-Box?  Sales?  Consoles have long outstripped the PC in terms of sales.  They could have transitioned years ago if that was the reason.  Same with the "one standard platform" argument.  The X-Box makes the technology gap is pretty narrow though, so it's not that big a deal to target both systems simultaneously.  But what about next month, or next year, when the X-Box is equivalent to a low-end PC?  How many PC developers do you know that focus on low-end systems as a primary target?   If it's not a primary target, then it's just another port.

The PC gamer/developer obsession with better, faster, stronger will keep PCs and consoles apart.
#12 by Leslie Nassar
2002-03-03 19:31:33
http://departmentofinternets.com
... but that's just my thoughts on the subject.  I can't say for sure that they wont converge, I just don't think it's very likely based on the predictions of people who are far smarter than me, but who were wrong, wrong, wrong.
#13 by UncleJeet
2002-03-03 19:51:01
#11 & #12 - Leslie Nassar:

  Well, you raise an interesting point.  Sure, PC developers are whoring themselves out to the Xbox right now....but will they continue to do so in a year and a half or so, when the PC outstrips the box?  I think they will, but only to an extent.  There's far more money to be made in the console market, and with the Xbox being so easy to port to from the PC, they'll continue to do it even when PC's have advanced beyond the Xbox's means.  I think it would be a far simpler matter to create a scaled down port of an advanced PC title to the Xbox than it was to port, say, Quake to the N64.  It'll happen, now more than in the past because of the Xbox's architecture.

  But will this inspire convergence?  It's always hard to see what's going to happen, but you can't discount trends.  Look at console life expectancy, for one.  How long did the NES last before the SNES?  How long between the SNES and the N64 or the Genesis and the Dreamcast?  (I'm ignoring the Saturn.  I think that's best for everyone.)  Sony caused a stir by talking about the PS3 shortly after the PS2 launch.  Microsoft's hinted at the next Xbox already.  How short is the gap going to get between new console releases?  Will it eventually compare to annual computer upgrades for the people that drive the advanced PC game market?  I think we'll probably get to a two year life expectancy on the console front, until things stabalize on the hardware side somewhere down the road where bigger better hardware takes longer to develop.  (Which is probably pretty far down the road.)  With that in mind, and it's not an insane estimate, think about the time it will take for the PC to eclipse the Xbox completely.  Probably about a year and a half or so, when you see titles taking advantage of some of the newer hardware.  So, we're talking about, basically, a six month difference in time - not very long at all.  Add to that the fact that, due to the Xbox's PC architecture, you'll still be able to play your Xbox 1 games on your Xbox 2 - and you start to get into the concept of upgrading your console.  Sure, $300 bucks is a good chunck of change, but it's nothing compared to $1000+ when you upgrade your PC.  It's pretty cost effective, really - upgrade every two years, it breaks down to $150 a year, or roughly $12.50 a month.  Now, when you can have a standard platform to develop to, and that platform is always going to be sufficiently advanced, and sales on that platform, even for poor selling titles, will far surpass sales you would make from a good selling title on a PC - which do you think developers are going to tend to move towards?

  Sure, there will always be PC games.  I can't imagine a sophisticated flight sim on a console, for example.  My point, though, is that - as a gamer - you're going to find, more and more, the titles you want to play being released on consoles either before, or instead of, release on the PC.  Microsoft has essentially taken a PC and put it in the living room.  PC developers are swarming to it like silicon to Baywatch - and that, pretty much, is the definition of convergence.

Peak 37 is the ants!
#14 by Sgt Hulka
2002-03-03 20:53:53
#4 Hoe Muffin said:

On a somewhat unrelated rant, now that you bring up FF, I'm getting increasingly annoyed at Japanese trend towards movies-instead-of-games.



What?  I thought FF 10 was a movie!  And it was pretty and all, but you're right.  I observed a bunch of kids trying to play this when it came out, and they got bored waiting for a part where you could click a couple of buttons then watch the next cut scene.  Games like this should be used at E3 when you want a higher turnover at displaying your game.

We played FF10 for about 30 mins, then popped SSX Tricky back in and have never turned back.  I'm sure it's got an audience, but not at this house.  We like games where you actually feel like a participant, not an observer.

.....Another 0l$en Approved +12 Post!
#15 by Charles
2002-03-03 21:23:12
www.bluh.org
The reason for convergence isn't really the technology, but the controller.
One thing consoles has that makes it different from PC is the game controller.  You must admit, this kind of controller is superior for many styles of game and gameplay.  On PC, you can only assume keyboard and mouse.  And maybe a basic joystick if you are making a sim game.

So the one thing that sets the console apart is it's game controller.  Soon, they will have keyboard and mice just so they can have the control needed for PC-centric games.  However, what you gain is a standard control platform.  This will come in especially handy when the consoles start incorporating even more advanced controllers.  3d displays, motion sensors, etc.  This will come further down the road, to be sure.  However, when that happens, the PC will have a harder and harder time competing for games.

There was a day when PCs were required for all the heavy stuff.  Large games, huge levels, etc.  But that day is slowly passing by.  Sure, the PC will always end up slightly ahead of the curve in terms of graphics, but graphics have never meant as much as people think they do.  

And really, in the end, is one Home Entertainment System such a bad thing?  It really would make my life easier as a developer =)

Of course, I can debunk my whole argument by saying "Yeah, but I can do 1600x1200 on my monitor so nyaaaah".  I guess we can just hope that HDTV goes somewhere in the near future.
#16 by "fat bastard"
2002-03-03 21:30:31
what for ?
you are all so stupid.. i hate you all!
i hope the pc crashes and burns.
i like to play with MY console joystick that's attached to my body between my legs, understand ?

i want pc games to be released like this:

each company should have no more then 3 to 5 titles a year! by company i mean distributor. so in effect EA would release 3-5 games a year!

i hate you even more! the pc is overloaded by greedy fools like YOU! piss off!
do i want thief 3, deus ex 2, sof 2, fuck 2 and everything 2,3,4,5 etc ? NO!! you do - that's because you are ALL stupid. go to the xbox et al. don't come back. we don't want YOU! stay away.


i want to play games from the mid 90's, not new ones.
#17 by yotsuya
2002-03-03 21:34:54
#16
i like to play with MY console joystick that's attached to my body between my legs, understand ?


Joker, is that you?

Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
#18 by Gunp01nt
2002-03-03 21:40:08
supersimon33@hotmail.com
joker never refers to it as his joystick.

a joystick has buttons. needs to be pushed. that hurts.

therefore joker's ehm... male genitalia are called WANG because it must be JERKED which describes the joker's character :)

<<< Do you believe in a god that tells you lies or do you believe in me? >>>
#19 by "fat bastard"
2002-03-03 21:52:40
what for ?
yes it's me.....
so what's new, eh ?

i just upgraded to microsoft's force feedback 3 (ßeta version - only to approved resellers) and i have to say i really like the PULLing effect of the "hat" switch. hat means i'm no jew.

once i master kick boxing i will woop all you suckas! i will send you all down under, Oz style.
fuck those aussies stink. i hate them, but i love those Abos with their digiry doos.


i want the pc GAMING scene to be like the mac is today, on the whole about 25 games a year. sounds good eh ?

i like to watch.
#20 by Post-It
2002-03-03 22:04:46
keithlee@speakeasy.net
Ripped from Jason Hall's .plan:
2/28/2002

Hello game industry.

Did anybody else get a letter from:

Dorsey & Whitney LLP
370 Seventeenth Street
Denver, Colorado 80202-5647
303-629-3400
osman.lee@dorseylaw.com

They represent a company called EdiSync Systems and they are asking for money, due to some sort of alleged patent issue in all games and software in general with multiuser functionality?

They hold US Patent NO. 5,799,320. Their patent claims to generally address a system for providing file edits or updates to multiple computers over a network. The Patent has a priority date of August 23, 1989.

Basically, they feel that just about every known multiuser product in the world, including all games, falls under this patent and they are looking for "a business solution" (we all know what that means).

This will have wide implications for a number of companies given EdiSync's approach to "carpet bomb" the industry, therefore I am interested in knowing if anyone else out there is currently dealing with this claim as well.

If this is something you are familiar with, please contact me at hall@lith.com


Anyone else heard of this?
#21 by Bailey
2002-03-03 22:05:05
Leslie

I can't say for sure that they wont converge, I just don't think it's very likely based on the predictions of people who are far smarter than me, but who were wrong, wrong, wrong.

The problem wasn't that their calculations were wrong, but that they assumed everyone in their estimates were more or less operating on the same level as the theorist themselves.

Sir, you are seriously hunting my wumpus.
#22 by Warren Marshall
2002-03-03 22:08:34
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Anyone else heard of this?

I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that if they've waited this long to start enforcing the patent, they'll be SOL if they try to go to court with it.

I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
#23 by "fat bastard"
2002-03-03 22:09:51
what for ?
i want to see all the MMORPG's die a fiery death real soon. i HATE them all.
i want more to come out so they die holding hands. yeah.


ps: i like to see girl's sweat. do you ?
#24 by Marsh Davies
2002-03-03 22:58:59
www.verbalchilli.com
Convergence? Hmmm... well I reckon consoles will certainly get more sophisticated, the games will no doubt get more similar to those on PCs, and a range of controllers will become available... but consoles will still be around as seperate entities for quite some time, if only because it's in the industry's interest to have people buy several different platforms.

Consoles will always have a market because they give the illusion of being more sophisticated than PCs when they initially come out. Developers like the stability offered by single platform development. Consoles are around to stay.

Bed. Now. zzzzz

-- ex Spatula Man --
#25 by Daniel Erat
2002-03-03 23:09:08
dan_erat@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~dan_erat/
They hold US Patent NO. 5,799,320. Their patent claims to generally address a system for providing file edits or updates to multiple computers over a network. The Patent has a priority date of August 23, 1989.

This sounds like it covers patches.  I think this is the first time I can see the positive side of a frivolous patent being enforced.
#26 by Warren Marshall
2002-03-03 23:19:35
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
This sounds like it covers patches.  I think this is the first time I can see the positive side of a frivolous patent being enforced.
Sounds like it also covers installing applications (new versions, etc) across networks.  That will cause network admins around the world to go on killing sprees.

I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
#27 by The_Joker
2002-03-04 00:03:03
http://www.jackinworld.com
Hmm, I'm not fat bastard.

And I'm really getting tired of all these new topics, Curryman had better do something about this system quick because it sucks.

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
#28 by crash
2002-03-04 00:38:19
convergence won't happen until it becomes more profitable to do so than the current system.

and right now game companies can sell the same fucking game four, five, six, eight times, depending on sequels and platforms.

convergence means they can only sell the same game once.

yeah, that'll happen.

- if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller
#29 by Morn
2002-03-04 00:38:31
morn@planetcrap.com http://hmans.net
Curryman actually published most of these manually.

Hendrik "Morn" Mans • morn@planetcrap.com • admin/coder/lover/kraut
#30 by "Anonymous"
2002-03-04 00:44:09
Can they really hold a patent on that?  I mean then IBM and every maker of mainframe and dummy terminals would have to pay up.  This would include the very fabric of networking.

Forget the game industry, they're small potatoes ... they could be going after EVERY software developer that creates networking applications and / or applications that RUN OVER a network!

Novell, Microsoft, you name it ... they can sue it! WOOHOO!

Of course, that begs the question ... what sort of software does EdiSync run on THEIR network ... assuming its not just some guy who's company fizzled years ago and just happened to file some sort of patent that *could* be construed as the basis for network application communications and was desperate to get rich quick from the scraps of his long dead business.

I've found nothing about the company on the web outside of this story.
#31 by Duality
2002-03-04 00:44:43
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
And, of course ... that was me.

*smooches*
#32 by None-1a
2002-03-04 00:48:09
Sony caused a stir by talking about the PS3 shortly after the PS2 launch.  Microsoft's hinted at the next Xbox already.  How short is the gap going to get between new console releases?


Um Sony started talking about the PS2 shortly after th PSX was relesed (sure the final hardware looked nothing like those early reports but they where still think about it). The time between the two wasn't exactly short.  MS has done the same thing a few times.
#33 by deadlock
2002-03-04 01:02:18
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Yay Post-It! Way to hijack the first thread that Jeet has produced in what ? Over a year ?

:P etc.

it's alright to say things can only get better - you haven't lost yer brand new sweater...
#34 by Warren Marshall
2002-03-04 01:20:59
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
crash
convergence means they can only sell the same game once.

yeah, that'll happen.

Well, consider too that sequels aren't made simply because the developer decides to do it ... the fact is, they sell.  Otherwise, they wouldn't get made.  So, on some level, the public must want them.

I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
#35 by Hoe Muffin
2002-03-04 01:42:58
poontanger@hotmail.com
#13 Unclejeet, actually, owning a console is (or at least, used to be) cheaper, since the average lifespan of a console is usually about 5 years, though Sony I guess is making threatening suggestions otherwise. So if you own the big three, you've spent 800 bucks on consoles alone, though spread over 5 years, that still beats getting a PC upgrade (and AFAIK, only the rich and/or the hardcore actually own three of them). And no, hardcore console gamers isn't an oxymoron :).
#36 by Charles
2002-03-04 01:44:52
www.bluh.org
Hell yes I want sequels!

Give me Deus Ex 2!
Thief 3!
System Shock 3!
Freespace 3!

I want them all.  In a lot of cases, a developer can do no wrong with sequels.  Assuming they don't drop the ball and make a stinking piece of shit (read: Blizzard and Diablo 2).
#37 by Bailey
2002-03-04 01:44:53
morn

Curryman actually published most of these manually.

Oi vey, then frigging stop already. The posts at the bottom of the front page are still receiving replies, and my mouse-wheel finger is getting arthritis!

Sir, you are seriously hunting my wumpus.
#38 by ryan kelly
2002-03-04 01:57:21
mailto:kelster@tribalwar.com
If a console/PC middle ground is found, will that help push PC gaming into mainstream?

A lot of the guys I know from college have a PSX/PS2/Xbox/GCN but stay away from the PC. With shared games I assume system acceptance will be shared as well.

-kel
#39 by None-1a
2002-03-04 02:14:37
Oi vey, then frigging stop already. The posts at the bottom of the front page are still receiving replies, and my mouse-wheel finger is getting arthritis!


Bailey I'd like to point you to the very usefull unread archive page. I haven't see the front page since being told of that.
#40 by chris
2002-03-04 02:17:42
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.cerebraldebris.com
You know... five years ago I barely played anything on a console. Sure, I acknowledged that some of the games were good, but PC gaming was where it was at, for me.

In the past 12 months, I've logged easily ten times as many hours gaming with consoles as with the PC (half of which were re-playing Deus Ex and Half-Life, no less).

This might have something to do with the fact that I don't have the grand to drop on a new machine to play new PC games (make that two grand if I'm not building it from parts), whereas I am easily able to afford stuff for my Dreamcast, and I also have access to a PS2, a Gamecube, and an XBox at work.


Warren -

You need a copy of the WOT logo-circles-thingy that's antialiased to white. =)

-chris
#41 by Hoe Muffin
2002-03-04 02:20:02
poontanger@hotmail.com
Ryan

If a console/PC middle ground is found, will that help push PC gaming into mainstream?

A lot of the guys I know from college have a PSX/PS2/Xbox/GCN but stay away from the PC. With shared games I assume system acceptance will be shared as well.[/quote

I dunno if that will ever be the case. Consoles will always remain easier to use, and require absolutely no technical know-how whatsoever (ok, maybe hitting the power button). Also, in my mind, there's something quite appealing with sitting on a comfortable couch playing on a big screen TV ^_^.
#42 by EvilAsh
2002-03-04 02:22:01
evilash@eviladam.com www.eviladam.com
Shaithis it more has to do with the fact you got access to free gaming lol. If you didn't have those options.. I Guarantee you wouldn't be playing console games.

And upgrading a pc once every 3 years is not that bad.
#43 by Hoe Muffin
2002-03-04 02:30:41
poontanger@hotmail.com
Why not? I still find console games to be an excellent use of my (admittedly limited) disposable income. Believe it or not, there are a lot of games out there that make the purchase of a console worthwile.
#44 by Morn
2002-03-04 02:42:56
morn@planetcrap.com http://hmans.net
Goodbye, cruel world.

Hendrik "Morn" Mans • morn@planetcrap.com • admin/coder/lover/kraut
#45 by UncleJeet
2002-03-04 02:54:19
I should make it clear here that I'm a gaming junkie - always have been, always will be.  At the moment, my active systems I have hooked up and play are the PC of course, (which I upgrade every year), Genesis, N64, Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, and Xbox.  My NES and SNES and Colecovision, Intellivision, various Atari models, old PC's are all neatly stored in the closet.  I cycle through them every so often, though.

I say this just to illustrate that I don't really have a bias toward either PC's or consoles - a good game is where you find it.

To get back to the topic, a good example of convergence can be found in Morrowind.  I never, ever, thought I would see an in depth PC type RPG on a console - ever.  RPG's and flight sims were always what I said would keep me in PC gaming, though I fell out of flight simming a lot time ago.  (I said this before the dawn of FPS's, by the way.)  And here we are now, with Morrowind due out soon for the PC and shortly thereafter for the Xbox.  Deus Ex is about to hit the PS2.  The consoles have grown up, and I admit I have mixed feelings about this.  The day that my beloved Mario (if I were gay and made of polygons, I would probably marry him) has a cross genre FPS/RPG/RTS I will quietly go up on a mountain to die.

Peak 37 is the ants!
#46 by UncleJeet
2002-03-04 02:55:58
"a lot time ago" - wtf?  See, that right there is an example of playing too many poorly translated console titles.

Peak 37 is the ants!
#47 by Greg
2002-03-04 03:05:55
Nova Z, of all the games you've listed, Deus Ex 2 is the only one I know of to actually be in development...

Greg
#48 by PD
2002-03-04 03:10:18
#36 Nova Z

You forgot Summoner 2. which is in develpoment, actually.

I played summoner on the PS2, where it's control system shines.

In my view, Console games are benefitting, diversity wise, from the Japanese market. There are some styles of games like Dynasty Warriors 3 that are great fun to play on a console, but you wouldn't try them on a PC because most PC owners don't own gamepads.

Remember, once we pull the pin, Mr Grenade is no longer our friend.
#49 by bishop
2002-03-04 03:16:39
http://www.darkintel.org/00FF00/
#47, Warren's doing Thief 3.
#50 by JMCDaveL
2002-03-04 03:34:12
YUO SPOONY BARD~~!!!~ KEKEKE

--jmc
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