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Green Leaves (to join 3DR)
May 20th 2000, 00:16 CEST by andy

George Broussard has announced that Brandon "GreenMarine" Reinhart, previously of Epic Games, has joined 3DRealms. He will be working on Duke Nuken Forever, which uses Epic's Unreal engine.

This comes just a few days after Epic announced it would only be supporting Direct3D rendering in future products, raising concerns that the company would no longer release Mac and Linux versions of its games.

Brandon was largely responsible for the Linux ports of Epic's games, so his departure will no doubt raise further questions about Epic's future support for the platform.

C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Green Leaves (to join 3DR)

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#1 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-05-20 00:20:03
appliedavoidanc@triton.net
First!
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "Dethstryk"
2000-05-20 00:22:02
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
More company switching between well known developers. Is anyone actually suprised?


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#3 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-05-20 00:23:55
appliedavoidanc@triton.net
Personally, and without any other information to go on, I do not see any big problem with Brandon moving on. He's going somewhere that his talent are apparently needed. Since I tend not tor read plan files all that often, I cannot say for sure, but I have not heard anything that would lead me to believe this was motivated by anything other than a desire to move on.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#4 by "Andy"
2000-05-20 00:32:39
andy@planetcrap.com
To avoid any confusion, the headline was a pun on "Green Sleaves". Not a <i>good</i> pun, but a pun all the same.
#5 by "Matthias Worch"
2000-05-20 00:35:08
mworch@legendent.com http://www.langsuyar.com
So what does Brandon's departure have to do with D3D? :) That info wasn't announced a few days ago, btw, but has been public knowledge for several months now (it was on the Unreal Tech Page, after all).
#6 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-05-20 00:35:51
sdk@rosenet.net http://www.unrealuniverse.com
There are some individuals who better be glad I'm not a spiteful person. :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#7 by "JeffD"
2000-05-20 01:08:59
jefdaley@microsoft.com http://www.microsoft.com
Epic isn't only supporting D3D.  That was a rumor.

They're dropping software rendering, and Glide, but they plan on supporting D3D and OGL.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#8 by "loonyboi"
2000-05-20 01:10:12
jason@loonygames.com http://www.bluesnews.com
<b>#4</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>To avoid any confusion, the headline was a pun on "Green Sleaves". Not a good pun, but a pun all the same. </QUOTE>

Actually, I thought it was kinda clever. :)

-jason<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#9 by "loonyboi"
2000-05-20 01:11:59
jason@loonygames.com http://www.bluesnews.com
Brandon wasn't the only programmer at Epic...he may have headed up their Linux efforts, but the mac port was always handled out of house anyway.

The Linux port will probably linger on in some way, but who cares? It was never stable enough to release a commercial product anyway.

-jason<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "JeffD"
2000-05-20 01:15:40
jefdaley@microsoft.com http://www.microsoft.com
<b>#7</b> "JeffD" wrote...
<QUOTE>Epic isn't only supporting D3D. That was a rumor.

They're dropping software rendering, and Glide, but they plan on supporting D3D and OGL.</QUOTE>

D'oh, looks like I was wrong.  

/me slaps himself, Homer-esque<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#11 by "Andy"
2000-05-20 01:19:22
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#10</b>, JeffD:
<QUOTE>
D'oh, looks like I was wrong.
</QUOTE>
Grr - I just spent five minutes digging up the info!

--

#4 sleaves = sleeves.
#12 by "Houston"
2000-05-20 01:20:16
breynolds@us.infogrames.com http://www.www.www.www
Feh

Developers trade jobs all the time, it's just not always so public.

Or, at least, the public doesn't always care if the lead of Test Drive Ass went to Hasbro to make PC versions of board games, or anyhting simliar.

Seems more like a news post than any kind of good conspiracy theory that everyone cal talk about, the uhmerikans and british can bally-hoo their differences over, or gives someone the excuse to insert the term "lesbian love triangle".

feh.. Killcreek's issue of playboy is coming out soon, that should be fun.
#13 by "Steel"
2000-05-20 01:20:49
Foogla@gmx.de
#9

Yeah, but what about Rocket Arena for UT? Greenmarine was coding it in his free time.
Will he <I>have</I> free time now? (Assuming he enters the D4 Crunch)

Steel out.
#14 by "George Broussard"
2000-05-20 01:23:44
georgeb@3drealms.com
Personally, and without any other information to go on, I do not see any big problem with Brandon moving on. He's going somewhere that his talent are apparently needed. Since I tend not to read plan files all that often, I cannot say for sure, but I have not heard anything that would lead me to believe this was motivated by anything other than a desire to move on.


The above is a super-genious, Wile E. Coyote style ;)

We are very happy that Brandon will be joining us on Duke Nukem Forever.  I wouldn't read to much into his leaving, or try to tie it to current events.  It's very common for people to seek new ventures after key projects ship.

Let's dig up some real crap worthy of PC.  

George Broussard, 3D Realms
#15 by "Andy"
2000-05-20 01:33:55
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#14</b>, George Broussard:
<QUOTE>
Let's dig up some real crap worthy of PC.
</QUOTE>
You would prefer people not to discuss this news?
#16 by "JeffD"
2000-05-20 01:34:10
jefdaley@microsoft.com http://www.microsoft.com
Let's see if I can't extricate my foot from my mouth.

D4 is Unreal based.  Brandon's worked on Unreal for years now.  It makes sense that, especially if they're in ship crunch, that 3DR would want to bring on a coder who will take a minimal amount of time to come up to speed.  3DR offered him some cash, and he jumped ship.  No conflict / oddness here, methinks.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#17 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-05-20 01:36:01
appliedavoidanc@triton.net
<b>#14</b> "George Broussard" wrote...
<QUOTE>The above is a super-genious, Wile E. Coyote style ;) </QUOTE>

I am from the home office, and I am here to help ;)
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#18 by "Jafd"
2000-05-20 01:41:56
jafd@whatthefuck.com
Brandon, good luck and happiness in your new place.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#19 by "Barbarian"
2000-05-20 01:46:13
conanford@yahoo.com http://www.barbarian.iwarp.com/
<b>#12</b> "Houston" wrote...
<QUOTE>feh.. Killcreek's issue of playboy is coming out soon, that should be fun. </QUOTE>

Actually, the pics were already released in the playboy cyber club.  It was all over the shugashack.

People with no lives then proceeded to go and rebrighten the parts of the picture that had been dimmed.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#20 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-05-20 01:53:53
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<quote>You would prefer people not to discuss this news? </quote>

Good old Andy.  :)

I think what he's saying is, it's really no big deal and probably not all that interesting to many people.

I wish Brandon all the best, but I don't think this makes for great conversation material.

"Man changes job!  Film at 11!"

;)
#21 by "SiliconVortex"
2000-05-20 02:10:21
siliconvortex@oreantar.com http://www.oreantar.com
<b>#20</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
<QUOTE>"Man changes job! Film at 11!" </QUOTE>

Hehe, nice.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#22 by "Andy"
2000-05-20 02:50:07
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#16</b>, JeffD:
<QUOTE>
3DR offered him some cash, and he jumped ship.
</QUOTE>
Is this just a guess?

I've looked everywhere I can think of to try and find where you could have got this info from, but I can't. What makes you so sure?
#23 by "Desiato"
2000-05-20 03:09:21
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com
I hear somewhere that Walmart has a video tape selling BELOW cost. This is obviously a big scam, I want to author a topic on this.


Heh.

Good try -- but getting the background on this job move probably would've been a preferred course of action. No harm done.


Desiato...
#24 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-05-20 03:32:25
Darkseid@captured.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
Hrm ... nuts to you lot.

Congrats on the Job Brandon,
#25 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-05-20 03:34:38
Darkseid@captured.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
Hrm ... nuts to you lot.

Congrats on the Job Brandon,


+conspiracy

Daikatana has shipped

Diablo ][ is due to ship July

Black and White will ship September 23rd

Taskmaster moves from Legend, post WOT, pre Unreal 2, to Epic, post UT, pre 'nextbigthing'

GreenMarine moves from Epic post UT to 3dr pre Duke4ever



theres a pattern here ..... I just need more scoobie snacks before I can work it out!



AHAH! I know !

Janitor Bob has returned !!!!!!



Ds
#26 by "happy cow"
2000-05-20 04:03:20
happycow30@hotmail.com http://happycow.home.icq.com
it's all starting to make sense now<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#27 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-05-20 04:16:38
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.greenmarine.org/
I'm posting this from Steve Garofalo's computer.

I'm only posting this cos I love the 'crap.  I don't plan on making any public announcements regarding my movement.

1. Epic and I are parting on very good terms.  My leaving has nothing to do with the Direct3D thing.  That was a genuine mistake on my part.  I had read the cards wrong and what was, for all intents and purposes, a casual discussion with Blue turned out to be a media mistake.  Epic had not worked on OpenGL in house for about nine months and it was not a focus.  The Linux project had been taken over by the OpenUT team.  I believed it to be Tim's intentions not to do any more OpenGL development in house, clearly I was wrong.  Other people at Epic have made similar misinformed public statements about various things in the past (3dfx vs Nvidia, PS2 vs XBox) and while Tim wasn't entirely pleased it wasn't a big deal.  I was wrong, I told Tim so, and he updated with correct information.

2. I will continue working on UT Rocket Arena in my spare time.  However, I will keep it to the weekends.  (We are close to a good release on this.  I haven't touched the code for several weeks now, though, because before E3 everyone at Epic was extremely busy.  In fact, the first day of E3 Tim and I worked 38 hours and I stayed up almost all night the following day working on Playstation 2).

3. I'm really excited about this move.  Things just came together at the right time.  I love Epic, but I feel there are some really cool opportunities at 3D Realms.  My myriad reasons for leaving Epic are for me and 3D Realms.

4. While I did the Linux port at Epic, that was only one part of my work there.  I would so much rather be known for some of the cool gameplay I put in UT rather than "the Linux port guy."  It doesn't take much skill to do a Linux port.  That's okay though. :)

"3D Realms offered him some cash, he jumped ship."

By leaving I am abandoning all of my royalty and profit sharing from UT.

I'm not going to be maintaining a plan file anymore and I'm not going to be doing interviews anymore.  Any Duke related questions sent to my email address will be forwarded to George.  My new email address is brandonr@3drealms.com
#28 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-05-20 04:27:24
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.greenmarine.org/
Ah! I reread the start of this.  You think Epic let me go because they weren't doing Linux anymore?  Give me a break, man.  We turned the Linux project over to OpenUT a long time ago.  I haven't directly touched Linux since the start of the year. (Other than integrating changes for patches).

I left Epic of my own volition and they were rather surprised.  They'll be fine though as they were going to hire another programmer anyway.  I was eating dinner with Tim Sweeney, Steve Polge, Erik de Neve, and met the new programmer.  He's a pretty cool guy.

Linux isn't my interest.  I just did it at Epic because it needed to be done.  During UT, my primary responsibility was gameplay and interface.  I also worked with the ngStats guys to integrate their features.

You guys have a bad habit of pigeon holeing programmers.  I bet you still consider Steve Polge the "AI guy."  Labels like that really sell individuals short.  Steve, for example, wrote Unreal's physics model, gameplay model, and a lot of other engine fundamentals.
#29 by "Apache"
2000-05-20 04:34:41
apache@warzone.com http://www.unrealuniverse.com
I'm just happy I have a new friend at 3D Realms :-)))
#30 by "Andy"
2000-05-20 04:39:54
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#27</b>, Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart:
<QUOTE>
I'm only posting this cos I love the 'crap. I don't plan on making any public announcements regarding my movement.
</QUOTE>
Thanks for letting us know. Appreciated.
<QUOTE>
You think Epic let me go because they weren't doing Linux anymore? Give me a break, man.
</QUOTE>
I didn't think anything. Your departure coming so soon after the D3D announcement would obviously start tongues wagging (check other message boards) so I started a thread about it.

Anyway, as I said before, best of luck. Hope everything goes well for you.

The thing about you not having a plan file raised a smile, for reasons I'm sure you know. *g*
#31 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-05-20 04:43:50
appliedavoidanc@triton.net
<b>#25</b> "Darkseid-[D!]" wrote...
<QUOTE>AHAH! I know !

Janitor Bob has returned !!!!!! </QUOTE>


Oh Please God!!

No!! Not that !!

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#32 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-05-20 04:50:00
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.greenmarine.org/
Well, thanks for the kind words Andy, now lets talk about something more worthy of PlanetCrap.  Like Romero's latest update.

_DUCK_!!!
#33 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-05-20 04:53:34
appliedavoidanc@triton.net
<b>#32</b> "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart" wrote...
<QUOTE>Well, thanks for the kind words Andy, now lets talk about something more worthy of PlanetCrap. Like Romero's latest update.

_DUCK_!!! </QUOTE>

you mean that update that had about as much true contant as the demo???

ok, what about it?
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "Apache"
2000-05-20 04:54:39
apache@warzone.com http://www.unrealuniverse.com
brandon -- don't get too nasty or george will take away your PC posting rights as well as your .plan ;)
#35 by "Apache"
2000-05-20 04:55:45
apache@warzone.com http://www.unrealuniverse.com
I have a photograph (not doctored) of Tim Sweeney wearing a Daikatana headband, it's pretty sweet.
#36 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-05-20 05:10:02
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.greenmarine.org/
Too true Apache.  Too much pain in the gaming scene already for me to contribute to it.  I'll let George do the talking.

I'm outta here.  I just wanted to post to clarify the situation.
#37 by "Apache"
2000-05-20 05:23:39
apache@warzone.com http://www.unrealuniverse.com
hmm some cool topics could be...

1) What ever happened to quality games from LucasArts?

2) NVIDIA vs 3dfx is always fun...

3) Halo -- Makes a nice movie, but is it really a game?

4) Nintendo's terrible E3 showing...

5) Daikatana! (You know you want it)

or there's always the GSI, Monolith stuff ;)
#38 by "Russ"
2000-05-20 06:43:15
rthcowboy@mindspring.com
<b>#28</b> "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart" wrote...
<QUOTE>I bet you still consider Steve Polge the "AI guy." Labels like that really sell individuals short. Steve, for example, wrote Unreal's physics model, gameplay model, and a lot of other engine fundamentals. </QUOTE>

For me, Steve Polge is the "reaper bot guy". Much cooler than the "AI guy". The "a lot of other engine fundamentals guy" just doesn't work at all. Forget about it. But, that's just me. I tend to associate people I don't know with what they were first noteworthy for.

This topic would be more interesting if we knew what state Duke Forever was in and could then speculate on what he might help with. Any hints?  <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#39 by "Bad_CRC"
2000-05-20 06:58:09
<quote>"By leaving I am abandoning all of my royalty and profit sharing from UT. "</quote>
 
bummer.  Hope George is making it worth it for you.   :)
 

I don't care about this.  to me, it's not "news"  but, at least it's game-related and not more pointless psychobabbling mental masturbation.
 
Maybe with  GM there, 3dr might actually finish the game within our lifetimes...?  *wink*

Let's talk about romero's update.   I was genuinely suprised to see plans for a new game.  I had never considered the possibility of anything but the announcement.  "rumors of ion storm's demise are greatly exaggerated" followed immediately, or within a few weeks by an official announcement of ion storm's demise.
#40 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-05-20 07:21:15
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
George/Apache/Brandon, don't you hate it when you eat a fudgesical (or some other ice cream related product) then take a drink of your soda and it tastes all warm?

Huh, Daikatana?
#41 by "Bad_CRC"
2000-05-20 07:26:23
I wonder if GM will purposely avoid a DNF linux port just so people don't think of him as "the linux guy"?
 
I think it's rather amusing that there are people who think of him like that, considering his hate of linux people.  hehe.
 
hehe.
#42 by ""
2000-05-20 07:28:35
I have a topic. I'm really curious to see what people think about this. The Quake 3 Arena mission pack. Gift  from the game gods or rip off. Mission pack or missing pack. Could one of the Lords O' crap wrap a esay around that and poke it up on the board?

Happy Cow ( Moo?)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#43 by "Paul"
2000-05-20 10:11:02
paulb@aerosoftware.com
Anything that gets Duke one step closer to completeness sounds like a winner in my book.

And since it was mentioned(sort of), I like a lot of what is in Daikatana. I like the level design, I like the weapons, and I like some of the multiplayer. The first 5 minutes of the game is usually what people judge the most(that's my guess, but it sounds about right). Half-Life has a great intro, and right off the bat you know it's something special. Daikatana has those damn annoying frogs which turn most people off. I like what Romero has done in the last 8 years, and I look forward to his next project, but I hope that he rounds out his next project a bit more.

There's a difference between fast paced action, and fast paced action that makes the player struggle needlessly. The attack of the poison frogs is a needless struggle.

- Paul
#44 by "RedLine"
2000-05-20 10:51:42
redline@omegaforge.com http://www.omegaforge.com/
Yay. ;-)

<B>I</B> would <B>guess</B> that all the interactivity and cool touches 3DR are trying to put into the Unreal engine are giving them problems, and they needed a programmer with very specific and detailed knowledge of the engine to get things to come together within a reasonable timeframe.

They needed someone and they needed them <I>yesterday</I>, so to speak.  For whatever reasons, GreenMarine was that person and here we are now.

If that's near the mark in any way, I'd go for broke and guess <B>DNF</B> is a year to a year-and-a-half away from completion... Q4 2001 would make sense in that case, and it would be a few months before Christmas too. ;-)

Of course, that's just me guessing blindly, but it's something that a lot of us humans seem to like to do, so there we go... heh.. ;-)
#45 by "George Broussard"
2000-05-20 10:53:04
georgeb@3drealms.com
Woo hoo!  Let's talk about why LucasArts games suck now!

In the old days they were unstoppable and the undisputed gods of gaming and quality.  

But I think that was due to them putting out a lot of adventure games (which they were the best at).

Along comes Dark Forces and Jedi Knight and they become a company that does action games now.  Problem is most of those people are gone now (starting Nihilistic or Infinite Machines).

My theory is that LArts is merely a licensing company now.  They exist to make games on Star Wars and Indiana Jones.  Which is fine if they are Jedi Knight quality.  But they have not been.  Force Commander, Rebellion, Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine.  All mediocre at best.

Brilliant games like Grim Fandango don't sell enough to justify their time anymore (and hence you see guys like Tim Shaffer - designer of Full Throttle, Day of the Tentacle and Grim) leave too.

No my friends, other than Monkey Island 4, I don't look forward to much from LArts anymore.  But I have faith that MI4 will rock us all.  But it will also be another stellar designed adventure game that wins critical acclaim, but sells 200K or less.

The phoenix will rise again, but the once can't miss LucasArts is a sad shadow of it's former self.

Say, by that token, wassup with Blizzard?  They seem to be bleeding people that are making their own startups.  Wassup in Blizzard-Land?

George Broussard, 3D Realms
#46 by "RedLine"
2000-05-20 11:05:02
redline@omegaforge.com http://www.omegaforge.com/
I don't think anyone can stay "on top" forever.... Times change, attitudes change, people change... sometimes a company will change with the situation, sometimes it will feel it doesn't have to and then it gets slapped upside the head because it is doing stuff that isn't relevant anymore.

Having a bunch of people leave doesn't really help that much, especially when they were responsible for some of your best games.
#47 by "Apache"
2000-05-20 11:56:34
man, LucasArts Games is a big cluster fuck  -- totally sold out to the man. all they do is sell games that can improve their market share in the movie industry. they don't care about good games anymore, they want to promote their movie franchises. totally corporate.

I remember when they wouldn't release a game until it was really done, no patches required, the mother-fucker was polished. (Jedi Knight, anyone?) Now, they ship crap, and don't even properly support their titles once they're released.
#48 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-05-20 13:32:07
sgt_hulka@yahoo.com http://www.hulka.com
I can remember the days of Green Tentacle, Sam & Max hit the Road, even Full Throttle had that cool LucasArts look, feel and fun.

I passed on Grim Fandango because I had lost faith in LucasArts games at that point, and even though the art looked fantastic, and it was getting descent reviews, I still passed.  I think they will NEVER get another dollar from me, they've lost their charm in this bunker.

About Brandon leaving Epic to join George of the Jungle...  Who cares?  Really.  (No offense Brandon/George)  It's not that big of a deal, if you must know, I switched day jobs three times last year alone!  My point is people switch jobs all the time, and I don't think there's a big conspiracy behind the movement, although I've heard that George offered Brandon free Twinkies if he came over to 3DR.
#49 by "RedLine"
2000-05-20 13:40:39
redline@omegaforge.com http://www.omegaforge.com/
[48] Sgt Hulka

Would those be love Twinkies ?  Heh sorry, been reading VoodooExtreme too much... ;-)
#50 by "Desiato"
2000-05-20 17:14:27
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com
Grim Fandango was kickass. It's of course the LAST title I've bought from MucasArts.

Pod Racer = Nice try, but if I want to pilot two whirling vibrators around a rocky backyard, I'll hire a few strippers to do it. That's how unimpressed I was with that game.

What would *I* have done if I had a say in it?

How about REALISTIC SCALE. I want the sounds booming out of the subwoofer to make you crap your pants. I want you to be so scared you'll mess up and get sucked into someones MASSIVE JET ENGINE INTAKES that when you're done playing, you're coated in sweat.

It could have been taken to that level, but hey -- Mucas Arts could only conjure up some poly-reduced pieces of crap.

Blah..

Desiato..
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