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T O P I C
Ah, Screw It All
May 19th 2000, 08:00 CEST by jeet

Hello again, my grubby little truth seekers. This time I have yet another off-topic essay for your little eyes to soak up. Enjoy. It has nothing to do with gaming, or the Internet, or anything else involving electrons. If you don't like it, stuff it.



Thomas Paine once said, "...that which we obtain too easily, we appreciate too lightly. Only through struggle does any one thing gain meaning." I'm now a firm believer in this Idea. Recent events have given to me much time and ample opportunity to reflect on things. On life. On love. On chocolate pie.

Things have, more or less, always come easily for me. When I was in school, always, studying was a foreign concept to me. I showed up, I scribbled what I believed to be common sense, I got the grades, I went on. I never gave much thought to my education, or what I would do with it - and why should I have? It never meant anything to me. It was just something that I had to do. I had to wake up in the morning, get dressed, get to school, and find my seat until it was time to go home. Once home I would spend my time irradiating any presence of genuine Thought through the conduit of television. After that, I would kill some more time endlessly questing around in various video and computer game experiences. Once my body insisted on rest, I would sleep - only to wake up and repeat the process.

Now, don't get me wrong here - there were variations to the routine. By the time high school rolled around, all sorts of neat things started happening. I found that I could waste more time more quickly in the company of the fairer sex. It was easy, and it was fun. Well, fun wouldn't be the best word to use here in all honesty. Sure, bits of it were enjoyable, but mainly it was just another distraction to help kill time.

To time, I must surely be the Great Murderer. The Ripper and Manson got nothing on me when it comes to the endless corpses of slain minutes that have fallen before me. As the teen angst began to set in on me, quite uninvited, yet with full fervor - I started to realize that everything I did was with the singular notion of beating time. Yet, I took the unnatural route of what most of us classy homo sapiens see as the Great Battle - I didn't want more time. I wanted less. Having time meant having an unoccupied mind; and, having an unoccupied mind meant having no control over what it thought up.

I hated thinking. I still do. Today, though, I persist at it. I can no longer keep myself distracted from it, because while I do still loathe it - I can't help but do it. I must think constantly, because that's what makes me who I am. And, as most of you regular readers know, I love who I am. I adore me.

To get back to the point, and to start making some sense here, let me get back to the Idea. "Only through struggle does any one thing gain meaning." I realize now, and have for some time, that the trouble of my existence stems not from anything wrong or out of place with me versus the rest of the world - but that everything I've ever done has always come far too easily. This is not to say that I'm a super genius with fabulously good looks and a devastatingly debonair personality. (Though that would be true, but I would never claim such grandiose posturing due to my extreme humility.) In all honesty, I haven't the first clue as to why I've had such ease with things. That's just the way it is.

So, how do I get from temporal genocide to introspective pondering? Easy - I found something to struggle with. The concept is so simple, it's laughable. At the same time, though, it's depressing as shit. I am, of course, talking about love. Genuine love, mind you. The True Love of fairy tales. Not giggly crushes or adorations of convenience masked in the guise of love. I'm talking about the real stuff of it, kiddies. I'm talking about an enduring love. A love that keeps you going through the years in spite of yourself. A love that you repay in tenfold measurement so that you can receive a pinch of it back. This is the love that I - and most everyone - want. It seems so easy to get, though, that it kills each and every one who doesn't have it to realize that we don't have it. Why not? Why can't we have this one simple thing that would make every other miserable aspect of our frustrating existence worth bearing? The answer is devilishly simple, folks - it's rare. Now, I'm not talking diamond-rare here, or even plant-life-on-mars rare, either. I'm talking about the one in a million, you'll maybe see it one day, if you're lucky, in the department store window but can't touch it through the barred over plexiglas armament kind of rare. It ain't out there in droves, pilgrims - no matter how much Hollywood or your happily wed neighbors tell you it is.

But we keep on searching. Questing. Hoping. Longing. We keep at it until our eyes are blurred from our own lack of vision, and our fists bleed the red oozing blood of pissed-off misery. Most of us will settle for a distilled version of it. We'll accept what the cards have dealt us, and we'll find happiness in it. Some of us poor bastards, however, refuse to give in. We have no common sense. Hell, we got no sense at all, when you get right down to it. We wallow in our self-induced despair until we either go insane or get too old to care - or both.

Then one day it happens, out of the proverbial clear blue sky. It hits us like the proverbial ton of bricks, and it leaves us dazed and proverbially confused. We find It. Its glory blinds us, and we lose all sense of who the hell we are. We foam at the mouth like junkies on a jonesing for a fix, and we fight our way to the top of the pile so we can get closer to it. When that one person comes along, and everything is right with the world, you forget completely about how much of an asshole you are, and how shitty you've made your life. You just don't care about all that needless crap anymore. All you want is more of It. More of the love you've finally found. Nothing else matters but keeping it. But, what happens when you lose it? Where do you go from there?

The end of the road sucks. Seriously, it's about as much fun as having a root canal in the office of Dr. Sade, DDS. while Bill Shatner lounge sings off scratchy vinyl in the background. You've been to the top of the mountain. You've touched perfection. Then you fell. You fell hard. Splat. Welcome back to Shittowne, we missed you.

This is exactly the situation I found myself in. Love lost. Gone forever, and no use dwelling on it. Kill some more time. Just get through this life. Hurry it up. I'm ready for the check.

Where do I go from here? I don't know. I don't so much care anymore, either. I do know, though, that should I ever again meet someone that can ignite this snuffed out spark in me - I'll probably blow it. I'll have already tasted the nectar of it, and I'll want it all back - and I'll want it instantly. I've been social with womenfolk long enough to know that no poor bastard is more of a poor bastard than a slobbering junkie that wants you to hook him up with the next fix. So how do you handle it? How can you play it calm and cool when you know what you want because you've been there before? Imagine a kid going back to DisneyWorld for a second time. Is it quantumly possible for the little tike to sit calmly in the minivan and yawn his way through the Pirates of the Caribbean? The luck for the kid, though, is that his folks ain't gonna turn the gang around and head on back to Tucson. The rest of us don't have it so good.

Ah, well. I'll just plod along and see where the road takes me. Maybe I'll stumble onto something again. Maybe I won't. In the meantime, at least, I'll find quasi-comfort in the arms (and thighs) of the vast armies of Buffy Bimbo Bitches, and I'll be able to feed the insatiable appetites of my audience with more increasingly cynical diatribes on how much I hate everything. And, let's be honest, isn't that just plain fun for everyone? G'night, kiddies.

Uncle I'm not bitter... Jeet
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Ah, Screw It All

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#1 by "RahvinTaka"
2000-05-19 08:22:37
donaldp@mad.scientist.com
I don't even know what to make of this ?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "UncleJeet"
2000-05-19 08:25:41
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Rahvin,
    What can I tell ya?  Get used to it!  :)

<b>Uncle</b> <i>We don't need no stinkin' genre</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#3 by "Andy"
2000-05-19 08:32:24
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#2</b>, UncleJeet:
<QUOTE>
Uncle <i>We don't need no stinkin' genre</i> Jeet
</QUOTE>
I think we <i>on da team</i> have been leaning this way since even before PC2 shut down, so perhaps we should make it 'official' that Planetcrap is an <i>anything goes</i> site, as far as topics are concerned. What say ye fellas?

Oooh, I've got some crackin' yarns to tell ya!
#4 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-05-19 08:40:43
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
Hmm, I have a lot of respect for someone with the cojones to discuss the gloriously debilitating effect of love on the human cynic. Because what is a cynic but a frustrated romantic? (I think someone famous said that, maybe Elvis Costello, or maybe he ripped it off from someone else.)
#5 by "G-Man"
2000-05-19 08:59:32
jonmars@shiftlock.org http://www.shiftlock.org
<b>In the Beginning</b> "UncleJeet" wrote...
<QUOTE>Why can't we have this one simple thing that would make every other miserable aspect of our frustrating existence worth bearing? The answer is devilishly simple, folks - it's rare.</QUOTE>
It won't be rare for long... just give it a good 10 years, and you'll be able to find your long-lost soulmate by checking radio boxes. Or if that fails you... you'll be able to create your true love in 20 years by assigning intelligent agents to the task.

 - [g.man]
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#6 by "UncleJeet"
2000-05-19 09:01:26
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
In ten years, I'll be 35.  If I don't find that soulmate before then, I fully plan on living through bachelorhood straight on into dirty-old-manhood.  <b><i>Oh yeah.</b></i>  Bring on the cheerleaders.

<b>Uncle</b> <i>Shake those pom-poms</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#7 by "Happy Cow"
2000-05-19 09:33:35
happycow30@hotmail.com http://happycow.home.icq.com
Curiously enough, this is the first Jeet topic I understand. Love lost. It totally bites. My husband died 2 years back and I'm still not over it. Ours was a great love. I both miss him and love him still.  So to answer your question, what do you do when it's all over? You play lots of computer games and read Planet crap.

Happy Cow ( I cry for Jeets because he will not cry for himself)
#8 by "Morn"
2000-05-19 09:37:56
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
MYOPIC!

- Morn
#9 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-05-19 09:42:32
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>In ten years, I'll be 35. If I don't find that soulmate before then, I fully plan on living through bachelorhood straight on into dirty-old-manhood. Oh yeah. Bring on the cheerleaders. </quote>
I set my "find someone by then or just give up" age to 30, and in my 30th year I met "that one", who proceeded to dump me (she was only 21, I keep telling myself...).

But this means she wasn't my soulmate, I guess.
#10 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-05-19 09:48:23
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>My husband died 2 years back and I'm still not over it. Ours was a great love. I both miss him and love him still. So to answer your question, what do you do when it's all over? You play lots of computer games and read Planet crap.</quote>
Though I don't know you at all, you have my deepest sympathies (and I realize everyone says this, but I have no idea how I'd react to a situation like this, and hope never to find out).

I'm sure people are always "you're young, you're beautiful, you'll find someone else." They don't really get it, do they?
#11 by "Serpwidgets"
2000-05-19 10:03:21
serpwidgets@hotmail.com http://people.ce.mediaone.net/serpwidgets/index.ht
Odd. I was just thinking about this subject as I was dozing off, but I couldn't sleep so I got up to check on the old crapper.

The most important thing I've realized about love is that every single one is different. I always thought that there was some quantified "Fairy Tale" love from which all others could be measured, but it's not really like that. It is possible to love more than one person. But I don't think you'll ever find two of them the same, or be able to figure out whether one was "greater than" the other.

When I was dumped by my first love, I honestly believed for several years that I would never be able to love anyone again, or at least that I wouldn't ever love someone "that much" again. But what finally got me over her was realizing that it's not about "how much" at all, it's just that you do. It just is, and it's good, and when you find it you won't ever be able to compare it to others in any quantifiable way. Just take it for what it is and enjoy every moment of it while it's there.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#12 by "RedLine"
2000-05-19 10:17:17
redline@omegaforge.com http://www.omegaforge.com/pod/
Wow... Well Allllrighty...

I myself am the picture of proverbial indefference.... Indefference to life, that is.  I just don't <I>care</I> about anything that happens to me, when it comes right down to it... I do care about a couple of people (My folks, my bro' that's really it) but I don't care about myself at all.

I'm different in that I'm always doing something... as far back as I can remember (Which is age 9, for some strange reason) I have done three main things, "The Computer", Reading and "The Guitar" -- I was never a people person, at little school I would wander around the edge of the playground on my own, lost in my own imagination or the dream world of various fantasy and sci-fi authors (I was reading Asimov by age 11)... and in the big school, I often ended up associating with the "non-conformist wierdos" simply because they came to me... given the choice I'd have just been on my own on the edge of the playground once again.

About the age of 14 I started to wonder if there might be something in this girl thing, but my lack (Complete non-existance) of social skills meant that I had no idea how to talk to 'em.

But by some strange chance I happened to be in a situation where I was talking to this girl who I really liked....  We ended up spending the next two years getting to know each other (Not like that... In the end, I only managed one kiss).... we were friends in a way that I could never have imagined... we learned so much about each other from each other... we knew each other inside out, could tell what we were thinking a lot of time...

It was amazing... and then it ended... My Dad used to be in the Army, and I'd spent a lot of my time moving around (9 moves in all)... when he retired, we moved away, and I lost her... slowly, over about a year and a half... writing to her and going down to visit when I could... but in the end, we just drifted apart.

Did we have this "True Love" about which people often talk ?  I don't know.  If we hadn't moved away, who knows how things would have developed.

The fact is I still think about her a hell of a lot, I can't get her out of my head.  I haven't had any contact with her for over two years now, and yet I can't forget about her.

But it doesn't really bother me, on any level.  I just carry on like I've always done, drifting around, a loner on the edge of the playground.

The first conclusion I came to about life - and one of the few memories I have from before age 9 - is that life is an ironic joke... the only truth about life is that we are gonna die... and in the grand scheme of things, one human life means nothing... so what's the point of anything ?

I've always felt - and still do - that I live outside of reality.  I just don't seem to be part of the same world that other people live in... my workmates talk about things that to me seem amazing or impossible, scary or fantastic, but to them are mundane and ordinary.

The only part of life I see is get up go to work go home go on the Internet or do something on the computer and go to bed.  And that's all I do, day in, day out.

Where was my point ?  When I was younger, I just accepted the view that love was the answer... after my brief brush with something that might have been love in one way or another... my conclusion is that the only answer is yourself... and I don't mean "be selfish, fuck everyone else", no, not in the least.

What I mean is "be at peace with yourself", and not in a pseudo-religious way either... if you have to socialise constantly to drown the nagging voices inside your head, then <B>I believe</B> there is something wrong with your life... take a step into a isolation and sort yourself out inside... then feel free to do whatever you want.

Personally, I like to stay in isolation (Spiritually speaking, obviously the mere fact I'm typing here precludes physical/mental isolation), waiting for the final curtain call.
#13 by "Serpwidgets"
2000-05-19 10:57:58
serpwidgets@hotmail.com http://people.ce.mediaone.net/serpwidgets/index.ht
<b>#12</b> "RedLine" wrote...
<QUOTE>What I mean is "be at peace with yourself", and not in a pseudo-religious way either... if you have to socialise constantly to drown the nagging voices inside your head, then I believe there is something wrong with your life... take a step into a isolation and sort yourself out inside... then feel free to do whatever you want.</QUOTE>

It seems like it's too difficult for some people to do that. It's much easier to use the unspoken social contract that says, "I'll ignore your fuckups and tell you you're ok if you do the same for me." Maybe that's why so many hide behind socializing and external validation. It's the good old, "I can convince myself I'm good without any actual work" scam that people play on themselves. The scam is that they actually spend tons more energy on keeping the truth away from their consciences than it would take to fix the problems from within.

I personally consider myself defective (not that I consider it to be <I>bad</I>) in the "social instincts" department, because I was much like you as a kid: very introspective, preferred to be by myself instead of around other people, didn't require others to like me or confirm for me that I was "ok." I had exactly one friend at almost any given point in my childhood, but they were always people that I would have trusted to the ends of the Earth.

As I got older I found more people that have the same "defect" as me, who don't generally concern themselves with the ridiculous apelike "social positioning and jousting" behavior that most people tend to spend their entire lives doing. My mom is one way, and my dad is the other, so I still am not sure just how much nature it is vs. nurture. That's something I hope to learn within my lifetime.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#14 by "RedLine"
2000-05-19 11:28:29
redline@omegaforge.com http://www.omegaforge.com/pod/
[13] Serpwidgets

I know exactly what you mean with the

<quote>I had exactly one friend at almost any given point in my childhood, but they were always people that I would have trusted to the ends of the Earth.</quote>

Line. ;-)

There are a certain set of base instincts that we all have, and a bunch of other base factors that some have and some don't, to a greater or lesser degree -- those (Obviously) make up our individual personallity... then there are other factors that we are artifically conditioned to accept as "right" or "wrong" but they are purely relative human ideas, and not part of the natural makeup.

I think it is these artifical ideas (Or some would say idea<B>l</B>s) that are the most dangerous, since they are constructed by other humans and therefore are either constructed for the benefit of those people, to control us, or are just flawed.

Religion and our sense of what is <B>socially</B> acceptable are just a couple of examples.  When I say "socially acceptable" I mean, for example, the legal drinking age in the UK is 18, while in the USA it is 21... yet we are essentially the same - we're all human - so it's just a different interpetation of what is right and what is wrong.

I think the entire social interaction bit in "modern society" is messed up because there are a bunch of artificially imposed rules... not really regarding what you should and shouldn't do, but more what is "cool" and what isn't.... It's also very subjective from person to person what "cool" is in any case, so you (Well I... one...) get this situation where it's very difficult to interact with someone because you are worrying about all these rules in the back of your mind.

Conversely, some people can just roll with it, they just seem wired the right way for it... so I dunno... perhaps there is more to it than I think.
#15 by "Serpwidgets"
2000-05-19 11:48:41
serpwidgets@hotmail.com http://people.ce.mediaone.net/serpwidgets/index.ht
<b>#14</b> "RedLine" wrote...
<QUOTE>There are a certain set of base instincts that we all have, and a bunch of other base factors that some have and some don't, to a greater or lesser degree -- those (Obviously) make up our individual personallity... </QUOTE>

Well, when you think about it, which cavemen (or pre-civilized humans) did we get our genes from? To be extremely blunt, it was more often than not the ones who beat the shit out of everyone else the most and wanted to fuck all the time. How proud we must all be, eh?

I really, <b>really</b> wonder what humanity would be like without sexual reproduction. I mean, a huge portion of our social instinct package (which is for a large part, where all the bad stuff comes from) is tied to the necessity of  successfully competing for mates. Without that, the only need for social instincts that would guarantee our survival as a species would have been cooperation and mostly other good stuff.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#16 by "RedLine"
2000-05-19 12:00:07
redline@omegaforge.com http://www.omegaforge.com/pod/
[15] Serpwidgets

Very true.

And the answer is, Unicron.  Err, that is... I can't think of an answer, except to agree. ;-)
#17 by "Chango"
2000-05-19 12:01:25
papa_chango@hotmail.com http://www.btinternet.com/~jedi99/
Happy Cow: I also offer my sincerest condolences for your loss.  I only hope I never have to face a similar situation with either myself or my wife.


Darkseid, you know the tale, so you don't need to read this one :)
Seeing as everyone is opening their hearts in a way I believe will be unique to this thread alone, I have my story to share.

I view myself in the same grouping as Redline, or at least when I was younger (I'm still only 24), but his story of being the outsider seems to mirror mine somewhat.  I had, and still have, a small collection of 'true friends', but we were a small group, simply 'standing by the side of the playground' each in our won ways, but together.  Does that make sense?

Anyway, I'd never really had either the inclination or the balls to even <b>attempt</b> to interact with girls at all.  This changed when I started going to College, and I found that a girl there liked me.  I had never noticed her before, as all the faces were still all looking the same (you know how it is when you start a new job or go to a new school), and to be perfectly honest, I wasn't really that attracted to her.  Being the pigeon-holed 'male figure' I was purely in this relationship for the physical aspect, rather than anything else.  When it came time for me to meet her folks and for her to do the same, things got more 'comfortable'.  4 reasonably happy years later..(!!).. we split.  Haunted by doubt and lack of 'seed-sowing' experiences, my eyes were wandering to the other side of the fence, and in the end I broke the whole thing off, purely so I could 'get me some more ass'.  I hate myself for being that way now, but I certainly don't regret ending it.  If I hadn't have ended it then, the path I appeared to be taking would have lead to me being unfaithful, and I'm not into that.

Bizarrely I got my very first net connection a month prior to our split and had been mosying around the chatrooms (you must understand at this point that I in no way split our relationship because I wanted to cyber with fat hairy-arsed bikers named 'Quinn' - it was coincidental). But about a month after splitting I started talking to an American girl.  We chatted for a few weeks, lost each other, found each other again, exchanged emails, then exchanged phone numbers, then sent Valentines cards to each other via snailmail.  We seemed to be connecting in a way I could never really appreciate with my previous long-term gf.  She was clever, witty, dirty and funny; and all I could do by this stage is pray that she really wasn't the aforementioned hairy arsed biker called Quinn.

On a wing and a prayer, and a whole bunch of money, I decided to get a flight over there and take the matter 'into mine own hand', so to speak.  WHich I did.

We met, we had a ball of a week doing trivial things, I came back, I resigned the job I'd had for 4 years, I sold everything I owned, I got another ticket, I flew over again, we got married.
Ofcourse, silly old me had burned all his bridges and destroyed all his security on a whim and a girl I'd only really spent a week with.  If people say that love makes you do the craziest things, they've got my number 100%.  We were broke -m I didn't think that I may need anything as wacky as a 'working permit' or green card.  I couldn't work, and I could only stay in the country for 60 days before they'd come and deport me.  What work she could find didn't even cover food.  I'd blown the last of my cahs on the apartment, so at least we had a roof and full working everything for a month.

In the end we split on the promise that it wouldn't be for very long, just so that I could come back to the UK and get earning soe real money, while she settled all her ties there and would come over then.  We did this and were back together within 3 weeks of me ditching the states.

We've now been happily married for just over 3 years (anniversary on may 3rd) and we have decided to go back to the states and do everything properly this time.  I've got my green card now and we have the support of her parents now too (they didn't approve of me marrying their little girl after a week, obviously).


To summarise, then, I think what I'm trying to get accross is that you may think you've had it good, but it can always get better.  If you think you've had it perfect, then you'll never find it again.  That doesn't mean that it isn't out there, it just means you're holding onto something that really shouldn't be in your hand anymore.  To coin the cliché: let it go.  Just when  you think you've got a long-haul of lonelines and misery ahead of you, that's when things like to pop up and surprise you.  It's called life, and it twists and bends in ways we don't really like.  In the end, you can either believe that your judgement is 100% accurate and wait exactly that 10 years, confident in the knowledge that you *will* find someone in that time, or you can just get on with enjoying yourself and fuck everyone that things you're doing the wrong thing.


P.S. Jeet, This is a pleasant break from licencing and internet topics - nice one.



peace.

Chango
#18 by "RedLine"
2000-05-19 12:14:32
redline@omegaforge.com http://www.omegaforge.com/pod/
[17] Chango

Cool beans man...  I hope it works out for you.

As for me... I'm not really interested in having a female companion... that doesn't mean I don't like to check out the girls, I'm just not bothered about having a partner... I'm also not homosexual... at least, not that I know of... I certainly haven't been "turned on" by any males I've seen so far.

No, I was just lamenting loosing a friend who was so close, that I understood more about her than I did about myself.  It's just a shame, but it doesn't bother me... I still think about her a lot, but not in a negative way, I don't get depressed or anything, I just go "Hmm... it's a shame" and then carry on with whatever I'm doing. ;-)
#19 by "Grandpa Pete"
2000-05-19 12:33:09
fuckoff
Jeet, your posts reek of condescension. For this, and many other reasons, I have decided I do not like you.

Thanks,
Grandpa Pete


P.S. You are not my uncle.
#20 by "Serpwidgets"
2000-05-19 12:38:17
serpwidgets@hotmail.com http://people.ce.mediaone.net/serpwidgets/index.ht
<b>#19</b> "Grandpa Pete" wrote...
<QUOTE>P.S. You are not my uncle. </QUOTE>

That's ok, you're not my grandpa either. :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#21 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-05-19 12:38:19
Darkseid@captured.com http://www.captured.com/boomstick
Having met Changos (better) half, gotta say shes a good un :)

/me hoists a guinness in Papa's general direction, adopts his best Yoda voice

'MMm a good time, you will have, yeeeesss!'


19 days til ta ta time mate :)


DS
#22 by "Chango"
2000-05-19 12:48:47
papa_chango@hotmail.com http://www.btinternet.com/~jedi99/
Cheers, Ds.

You will have a room there waiting, remember?
#23 by "UncleJeet"
2000-05-19 14:58:35
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Gramps,
   I have to get my ass to work, so I'll keep this short.  <i>Of course</i> my posts reek of condescension.  How long did it take you to notice this?  :)

<b>Uncle</b> <i>Poppin' dat Geritol(tm)</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#24 by "RedLine"
2000-05-19 15:05:46
[19] Grandpa Pete

That's ok, we value your opinion here are the 'Crap.  At least you expressed your displeasure without resorting to profanity and petty name-calling, which was both refreshing and appreciated.

I would still prefer a "jeet" topic over any other topic though... although I guess if they were all like this, after the third or forth one, we'd all be too emotionally drained to type anything. ;-)
#25 by "RandoM"
2000-05-19 17:25:57
random1@speakeasy.org http://www.clan51.com
OMG, I think I'm going to toss my cookies...
#26 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-05-19 20:04:39
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
In response to Andy's question -way- up above ... I personally would like to see PC stay games industry oriented ...

We've all seen what happens when threads wander off into gun control, religion, nationalism, etc ... it's just ugly with no resolutions in sight.

It's bad enough with that stuff NOW ... if the topic itself was about those things, I can only imagine the carnage...
#27 by "RahvinTaka"
2000-05-19 20:19:49
donaldp@mad.scientist.com
<b>#26</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
<QUOTE>In response to Andy's question -way- up above ... I personally would like to see PC stay games industry oriented ...

We've all seen what happens when threads wander off into gun control, religion, nationalism, etc ... it's just ugly with no resolutions in sight.

It's bad enough with that stuff NOW ... if the topic itself was about those things, I can only imagine the carnage... </QUOTE>
I would like to cast my vote for games orientated site too :P<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#28 by "Frozen Caveman Lawyer"
2000-05-19 20:21:09
dickcheese@hotmail.com http://www.bluesnews.com
I would like to cast a vote for the site to have more topics that revolve around GSI being a shit ass company.
#29 by "Creole Ned"
2000-05-19 20:32:19
cned@home.com http://www.quirkybastards.com
I'd also like to see PC remain a primarily game-oriented discussion board, although occasional diversions are always welcome.
#30 by "Andy"
2000-05-19 20:40:47
andy@planetcrap.com
Not that I'd ever want to question the judgement of our wonderful readership, but if we'd only been covering games-related subjects this time around there would have only been around half a dozen threads so far.
#31 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-05-19 20:45:52
rhiggi@home.com
<b>#26</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
<QUOTE>In response to Andy's question -way- up above ... I personally would like to see PC stay games industry oriented ...

We've all seen what happens when threads wander off into gun control, religion, nationalism, etc ... it's just ugly with no resolutions in sight.

It's bad enough with that stuff NOW ... if the topic itself was about those things, I can only imagine the carnage... </QUOTE>

At least you'd have the chance to bypass the entire topic now wouldn't you?  If we <b>try</b> to keep it only about games, it just won't work.   There is more to life after all.  
Everyone has a reason to keep coming back.  Personally, I like talking about games, but theres only so many topics there, and I can do that alone on other sites.  A handful probably even have people willing to post intelligent comments and not mindless drivel amidst the spam.
The first time I posted to this site, it ended up becoming a arguement over general work ethic.  Next thing I know, I'm debating particle physics - quantom theory.  Ya gotta love that.  Its like one stop shopping and most of the people present intelligent arguements even if I don't always agree.

Everyone has thier own way of doing things.  Me, well if I see a topic I don't particularly care for, I <b>don't read it</b>.  I know it may take some of you awhile to comprehend that idea, just remember to take a deep breath and think slowly :p.  Thats about as politely as I can force myself to say it.
My vote is for <i>d) all of the above topics</i> in case you didn't notice.  Like it matters, ppl will post whatever they want :).

If you edited this site to enforce that, everyone would leave anyway and this would be just a another link on someone game page.

V
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#32 by "Jeremy"
2000-05-19 21:08:15
jnthornh@eos.ncsu.edu
As to the nature of this site...

As a newbie, the only thing I am really qualified to say is:  I like it the way it is.  This thread hit close to home with me in a lot of regards, and I for one am glad that it exists.

While games are an important part of my life, they certainly aren't my <B>entire</B> life.  There's a lot of interisting stuff out in the Real World, and I think it's great having a place to read what other gamers feel about issues outside the gaming sphere on occasion.

Games = good.

Philosophy = good.

News = good.

Crap = good.
#33 by "Barbarian"
2000-05-19 21:43:08
conanford@yahoo.com http://www.barbarian.iwarp.com/
I was going to write something long and philosophical, but I think Jeet's pretty much got it covered.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "RedLine"
2000-05-19 21:45:34
redline@omegaforge.com http://www.omegaforge.com/
Actually, I'd prefer it if we had Admins here at the 'Crap who posted particular subjects, so when you see a post by Admin1 you know it's gonna be games... when you see a post by Admin2 you know it's gonna be more general computer stuff, and when you see a post by Admin3, you know it's gonna be... anything...

Oh wait... that's how it works already... silly me... ;-)

Hehe, I'm not being nasty there, just playing wid you...

Seriously though, since this is (Pretty much) how it works already, as [31] Vengeance[CoD] said already, you can just ignore topics that don't interest you... it's not like you are <I>required</I> to post to <B>every</B> topic or anything... ;-)
#35 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-05-19 22:35:05
rhiggi@home.com
<b>#34</b> "RedLine" wrote...
<QUOTE>Actually, I'd prefer it if we had Admins here at the 'Crap who posted particular subjects, so when you see a post by Admin1 you know it's gonna be games... when you see a post by Admin2 you know it's gonna be more general computer stuff, and when you see a post by Admin3, you know it's gonna be... anything...

Oh wait... that's how it works already... silly me... ;-)

Hehe, I'm not being nasty there, just playing wid you...

Seriously though, since this is (Pretty much) how it works already, as [31] Vengeance[CoD] said already, you can just ignore topics that don't interest you... it's not like you are required to post to every topic or anything... ;-) </QUOTE>

Ohh no.  You must post to every topic.  If you don't have anything useful to say about the topic, you should at least say how useless the topic is and how they "should just get a life" a clue and some decent topics.  Not on just one topic, but all of them.  You must say the same thing again and again because you are <b>god</b>, the world revolves around you,  and you and only you get to decide what a good topic is.  "Damn the last 3 topics suck and I rock 'cause I've got better things to talk about...." [I just can't share them with you... k].

Sure its a little over done, but it just wouldn't be funny without the drama.  Heh heh :p

V

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#36 by "Andy"
2000-05-19 22:40:12
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#35</b>, Vengeance[CoD] - the sad thing is, the people who <i>really do</i> think that way probably don't even realise it. I expect they read your post without the slightest twinge of recognition.
#37 by "RedLine"
2000-05-19 22:50:43
redline@omegaforge.com http://www.omegaforge.com/
[35] Vengeance[CoD]

I have to confess to doing that once, before I realised how much of an ass I was being, at which point I appologised and stopped talking (Or posted something on-topic, I dun remember which)

Needless to say, I will just ignore any future topics I'm not really partial too... acutally I really have no idea what got me so wound up that one specific time. ;-)
#38 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-05-19 22:54:18
rhiggi@home.com
<b>#36</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>#35, Vengeance[CoD] - the sad thing is, the people who really do think that way probably don't even realise it. I expect they read your post without the slightest twinge of recognition. </QUOTE>

Ohh well then, 2 topics from now when someone says the exact same thing again (and they will) at least we can share a laugh.  Its funny the opinion some people have about thier opinion.  I get a little tweaked at times because its disrespectful of who ever posted the current topic.  Personally, I'd much rather discuss things with people who know more than I do (thats why I like the crapper), you learn alot more that way.  So I'm open to most any topic of discussion.  Sometimes Learning requires <i>listening</i> though, and thats a <b>very</b> underated skill.

V<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#39 by "Vengeance[CoD]"
2000-05-19 22:58:45
rhiggi@home.com
<b>#37</b> "RedLine" wrote...
<QUOTE>
before I realised how much of an ass I was being
</QUOTE>

At least your in good company.  Just about everyone here at one time or another (and me more times than I'm proud to admit).  Everybody wakes up on the wrong side of the bed now and then.  No harm, no foul.

V<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#40 by "netshade"
2000-05-19 22:58:48
netshade@brainrazor.com http://www.brainrazor.com/
Heh.

jeet::Though I can't claim understanding in regards to your situation, I have had something similar happen to me, if only in a different vein and with different actors and plots.  I empathize.

ns
#41 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-05-19 23:02:07
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<quote>While games are an important part of my life, they certainly aren't my entire life. There's a lot of interisting stuff out in the Real World, and I think it's great having a place to read what other gamers feel about issues outside the gaming sphere on occasion.</quote>

Yes, thank you for reminding me.  *rolls eyes*  I am well aware that there are other things in life other than games ... I'm not a child.  :)  I just find few things as entertaining to talk about as games ... just my personal preference for the direction of this site.

Andy asked, I answered with my opinion.  :)
#42 by "UncleJeet"
2000-05-20 00:15:23
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Well, gang.  Here's my spin.  I'm a loudmouth, no getting around that.  Way back when PC first started, I was all over the place with topics.  Hell, before PC I was going wild at Unreal.org, wandering so far off topic, even I didn't know where the hell I was at times.

For me, the idea behind PlanetCrap, as it has evolved over time, is more than the Planet moniker suggests.  Let go of the GSI connotation and realize that this is a planet we live on.  And there's a helluva lot of crap in it.  This is what makes life interesting and, oddly enough, bearable.

It's funny how someone, I can't remember who, mentioned that the <i>team</i> tends to post certain things depending on who posts it.  Andy is always crusading for the little guy.  He cannot tolerate big business raping people.  I think we can all agree that he's got the right idea.  This doesn't mean he always goes after game companies or web sites.  He sees what is, in his view, a wrong - and he starts a discussion about it.

For me, everything is about the discussion.  Whether or not folks stay on the topic of the thread, I really just enjoy seeing where the discussion goes.

I like to provoke people.  Usually I go for the "make them mad" angle.  That usually leads to flaming and whatnot, though, so I'm trying to stay a bit more subdued this time around.

I enjoy hearing the viewpoints of others.  The readers of PC never cease to amaze me with their insight and intelligence - which is why I love the 'Crapper so much.  Keep it coming, gang!

<b>Uncle</b> <i>Get me a tissue, I'm getting all misty...</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#43 by "Happy Cow"
2000-05-20 00:29:17
happycow30@hotmail.com http://happycow.home.icq.com
I ,as a rule avoid message boards. When I heard about Planet crap (my brother pointed it out) I checked it out with some trepidation. While I am a total newbie, I do like it very much. It's  not so much what we talk about. But the people that come here and share what they think. Sometimes we disagree. But I have yet to see the rampant flaming that goes on with most message boards.

In other words, I like Planet crap. I like the people that post here and I love to find out what they think about concerning any topic. Even love.

Happy Cow ( easily amused)
#44 by "McGrew"
2000-05-20 17:12:40
mcgrew@famvid.com http://TheFragfest.com
<I>"...if you ever get the chance to avoid attending E3 every year until you finally die, take it." -OMM</I>

Heh heh, Dopey Smurf mailed in his "Booth Babes" piece before he left for Germany. I'm too lazy to post a link, just click on my page, there's a link at the top left.

Ah, Booth Babes! It's good to know that all gamers (at least those in the industry) are heterosexual males. Which has always made me wonder, why do women gamers always complain about bad treatment by male gamers if the male gamers are straight? Maybe they're all old married farts who are afraid their wives will think they're flirting with those voluptous female players (many of whom are fat, middle aged men)?

Or is the industry just kinda clueless?

If I were a young, ugly, out of shape geek at E3, I'd feel like a man in a fancy French restaraunt with no money- look, smell, listen, but don't touch. My spel chekkar is busted, how do you spell "masochist"?

While you're drooling over those sixteen year olds, remember where Patrick Naughton is and what the age of consent is in this country. Yeah, I know you can sell young girls in some Asian and African countries, but here a person has to be at least eighteen before he or she can be sold into slavery.

My daughters should be glad we're not in Britain, because the day they reach the legal age of consent is the day they're out the door. I've known too many thirty year olds living with their parents.

[2] RedLine: "...you have to be over a certain age to enter." Bullshit. I know a young fellow who has gone three years in a row; he turns eighteen this year, I believe.

"I dunno why people get so worked up over sexual imagery..." because they're not getting any of the real thing.

[3] Morn: "When I see the sweaty, fat, pale white trash standing in front of the Eidos booth, shouting various requests..." I rest my case, your honor.

[9] RedLine: "The girl is English, the legal age here is 16..." I don't care if she's from somewhere the age of consent is ten, if you fuck her in the U.S. you've committed a felony.

"define 'sexism' for me please." Sexism is when you think your sex is better than the other sex, which makes 99% of all women sexists. Needless to say, Blacks have twisted the dictionary definition of racism, women have twisted the dictionary definition of sexism, and most everybody in the world is pretty damned dumb. Make people pass an intelligence test to get the web site license you Brits were talking about and there will be about ten pages left on the whole internet... the .edu and .gov domains would be wiped out completely. Hell, my page would be the first to go, if I had any brains I'd charge for this.

Hulka mentioned on his site that Einstein's daighter was mentally retarded, "but compared to Einstein, everybody's retarded".

"we are still fundamentally wired by things which we cannot control..." That's a copout by the morally bankrupt. "But I couldn't help myself". Go take a cold shower, Naughton! "I thought she was lying when she said she was only thirteen, I thought she was really forty". Yeah, right.

As far as "The intellictual viewpoint that somehow you are not being respectful to a woman if you're just looking at her body is kinda silly when you get down to it..." I have to agree, it's very silly, usually. A woman works out at the gym, diets, wears makeup, a low neck and a high skirt and gets offended when you look? WTF??

If she looks like a lesbian, hiding her breasts, frowning, hair matted and unattractive, baggy clothes, who's going to look? Face it, when a man stares at a 400 pound woman, it's not sexism, it's the same as gawking at a bloody traffic accident.

[12] Tom Cleghorn: 1. No. It is illegal to have sex in the US with anyone under eighteen no matter where they are from. So a British forty year old man caught having sex with a British sixteen year old girl in Houston will wind up getting assraped by a fellow prisoner after his conviction for statutory rape. THAT'S justice, buddy!

2. A nineteen year old Brit can no more have a legal beer in St. Louis than he can in Saudi Arabia. Dude, I remember you being smarter than these questions you are asking- or is it just "moron bait"?

[20] RedLine: "In the UK you leave school at 16 too..." you learn something new every day, I didn't know that. Over here, we have preschool at 3, kindergarten at 5 (both newer things, I started school at the 1st grade but my kids had preschool), first grade at 6, a high school freshman at 14 (provided you are smart enough not to have flunked any grades) and graduation at 18, provided the abysmal public school system didn't bore or anger you enough to drop out.

[22] deadlock: "Personally I don't find it unpleasant to... see a female form that is pleasing to the eye..." LOL! read that again! If it is pleasing, how can it be unpleasant?

About the church, we've had problems like that here, too. You have to realize that you are talking about a handful of men out of a very large organization. Becoming a preist does not make you Christ, no matter what the Catholics tell you. Pick any hundred people, and at least one of them is evil. Even in church. Which one of you is it?

[24] Morn: "The Diet Coke ads have female-oriented sexual imagery?" The homosexual-dominated advertising industry knows 99% of men are straight, but thinks 99% of women are lesbians... which explains the booth babes and the diet coke ads.

[28] Chango: "Get over it. Jeez." We'd all like to, but this "political correctness" bullshit won't let us.

They used to couldn't sell a car unless there was a good looking woman draped over the hood in the commercial, as id she came with the car!

"Like Lowtax, sex sells..." What does Lowtax sell like sex?

[29] Chango: "That was supposed to read..." ;)

[30] Morn: "...have reached a point where I couldn't, for example, bring my girlfriend to E3 or ECTS without dying with shame." Finally, somebody who actually sees the point!

[35] RahvinTaka- may I expound? Thanks. "I ask these people this ... would you be willing to take your mothers, girlfriends and sisters to these shows..." and have them take off most of their clothes and titilate the middle aged, fat geeks? I thought not.

[36] VeeSPIKE: "...but showing what might be considered lewd sexual acts at a public event can get one in trouble." That depends on local zoning laws, and my guess is the folks that run E3 have lawyers to make sure everything is legal. I'd almost (ALMOST) bet my domain that nothing was done that broke even minor zoning laws.

[38] Serpwidgets: "...if you are a contributor to the truism 'sex sells' then you are, by definition, stupid." What do you mean by "are a contributor"? If you mean by that, that if sex sells TO YOU you are stupis, I agree. If you mean anybody saying "sex sells" is stupid, then you're stupid. Sex does sell, because there are a lot of freakin' morons out there, and to deny an obvious fact is incredibly moronic. The sun will shine on the moon tomorrow no matter how stupid you think that sounds.

[43] Happy Cow "But I have yet to see the rampant flaming that goes on with most message boards." Hey, where <b>is Flamethrower? Haven't seen him here for a few topics. I'd better go read his page!
#45 by "McGrew"
2000-05-20 17:14:11
mcgrew@famvid.com http://TheFragfest.com
I wish there were a "preview" button and a pell checker... guess  need crapspy
#46 by "Agent_ynohtnA"
2000-05-20 23:38:05
ynohtna@ynohtna.org http://www.ynohtna.org/
Love is but a simplistic solution to the problems of lust, loneliness, and laundry.

<QUOTE>Because what is a cynic but a frustrated romantic?</QUOTE>

Bugger, that's me bagged.
#47 by "RedLine"
2000-05-21 18:38:31
redline@omegaforge.com http://www.omegaforge.com/
[44] McGrew


Reply to your reply of my [2] post:

Oh <B>WELL FUCKING EXCUSE ME I OBVIOUSLY FUCKED UP</B>... I did believe that there was a rule about the age you have to be to enter E3 but obviously I was wrong.  If you had pointed it out in a decent way, the bold part of this post would not exist, but since you want to play it like that, I'm gonna respond on your terms... sure that drags me down to your level, but it's fun.

Reply to your reply of my [9] post:

The point of that line was...  <B>IN THE GIRLS OWN MIND SHE IS A WOMAN</B>... That is all I was trying to say.  It doesn't matter if it's "illegal" to for her to have sex or not... the age of consent is supposed to be the first marker of the start of the change from child to adult...  As I've said several times already, the topic calls her a slut, but <B>IN HER MIND</B> she's a woman now... at least... it could be argued that... but if you had read the comments properly, you'd know that other people have said the exact same thing and I have given the exact same clarification.

Your other points here are pretty valid though.

You'll notice I put the main points of my arguments here in bold so you can skim-read this post as well, but this time you might actually understand what I am trying to say.
#48 by "RedLine"
2000-05-21 18:48:03
redline@omegaforge.com http://www.omegaforge.com/
[47] RedLine

"the topic calls her a slut"

Of course I know women can be sluts as well as underage girls, but the topic was (In my interpretation) calling her a slut specifically because the writer perceived her to be still a child... of course to the writer (From the topic writer's perspective), the transition point from child to adult is higher, due to the conditions of the social climate in which the writer grew up... however, the conditions of the social climate in which the "girl" grew up in dictate to her that she is now offically/legally <B>on the path</B> (As in <B>beginning the transition</B>) from childhood to adulthood, therefore the "girl" does not perceive there to be anything wrong with her playing on her sexual appearence.

The fact that she would have been in violation of US laws had she actually had sex or performed a striptease does not really enter into the equation, since the equation deals with philosophical arguments, rather than physical or "technical" (Legal) ones.

There's the long version.  And now I missed the Superbikes... damnit... ;-\
#49 by "RedLine"
2000-05-21 18:51:10
redline@omegaforge.com http://www.omegaforge.com/
Is it me, or are the posts from [44] onwards in the wrong thread ????  I swear they should be in the EIDOS one....
#50 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-05-22 18:27:18
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
<b>#49</b> "RedLine" wrote...
<QUOTE>Is it me, or are the posts from [44] onwards in the wrong thread ???? I swear they should be in the EIDOS one.... </QUOTE>
Actually, just the posts from you and McGrew from that point on...

-PainKilleR-[CE]
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