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DNF still smoking!
December 3rd 2001, 17:00 CET by godZero

You might be interested in this. On WiredNews, you can nominate your favourite vaporware for 2001. Last year, DNF almost won it, but fell behind MacOS X. Hell, DNF was one of the nominees even in 1999. This year, DNF might even win with a bit of support from us...

www.wirednews.com  Vote: vaporware@wired.com?subject=Vote Here for Vaporware
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#1 by "Gabe"
2001-12-03 17:01:11
gabe@opencrap.org http://www.opencrap.org
Well, if we are going to go down, we should go down with a bit of old-fashioned 3DR bashing!
#2 by "Jeremy Witt"
2001-12-03 17:13:34
jeremywitt@evilemail.com
agreed re: 3DR
#3 by "Scott Miller"
2001-12-03 17:19:17
scottm@3drealms.com www.3DRealms.com
I personally love it!  This shows how much people still care.  Face it, if no one cared, they'd vote for something else.  As with Max Payne, another four-year "vaporware" project, showed, long development does not equate to a non-successful game.  DNF will crush that myth once and for all.  ...queue evil laughter fading off into distance...  ;-)
#4 by "Bailey"
2001-12-03 17:20:22
bailey@evilemail.com
I'd like to hear a bit more from morn regarding the whens and whys of PC going down, actually. How's about that for a topic?
#5 by "Scott Miller"
2001-12-03 17:23:31
scottm@3drealms.com www.3DRealms.com
BTW, here's a recent poll ("Who is your favorite game action hero?") taken on Voodoo Exteme.  Duke seems to be really hurting!  (Note, between Duke and Max, that's almost half the total votes.)

Poll Results (with number of votes in parenthesis):

    Character           Game name
    
28% Duke Nukem       -- Duke Nukem  (2773)
17% Max Payne        -- Max Payne   (1725)
10% J.C. Denton      -- Deus Ex     (982)
9%  Gordon Freeman   -- Half-Life   (907)
7%  Sweet Dick Willy -- joke character, no game (659)
6%  Garrett          -- Thief       (568)
5%  Lara Croft       -- Tomb Raider (466)
5%  Cate Archer      -- No One Lives Forever (374)
3%  B.J. Blazkowicz  -- Wolfenstein 3-D(325)
3%  Kyle Katarn      -- Star Wars   (298)
3%  Serious Sam      -- Serious Sam (254)
2%  Caleb            -- Blood       (230)
1%  John Mullins     -- Soldier of Fortune (144)
1%  Citizen Kabuto   -- Giants      (96)
1%  Ragnar           -- Rune        (92)
1%  Kurt Hectic      -- MDK         (90)
1%  John Blade       -- Sin         (60)

Total Votes: 10043
#6 by "Bailey"
2001-12-03 17:30:52
bailey@evilemail.com
Hmm... hey Scott, Doesn't the fact that "Sweet Dick Willy" placing fifth sort of invalidate the whole poll as a bunch of pimpled, teenage hamsters frantically mashing their mice over and over with no real thought or opinion going in?

That being said, Ragnar and Garett are the marviest, IMO. Or the meccaryns from Giants, but certainly not Kabuto himself, feh. Not that Max wasn't a fun game, but yeesh... yak yak YAK angst yak yak agonizing metaphor yak, etc. Mostly yaks.
#7 by "Stepto"
2001-12-03 17:35:42
stepto@gamersangst.com http://www.gamersangst.com
I vote no one else post in this thread and let's see if Scott replying to himself can reach 1000.

S.
#8 by "Scott Miller"
2001-12-03 17:38:30
scottm@3drealms.com www.3DRealms.com
"Hmm... hey Scott, Doesn't the fact that "Sweet Dick Willy" placing fifth sort of invalidate the whole poll as a bunch of pimpled, teenage hamsters frantically mashing their mice over and over with no real thought or opinion going in?"

Maybe, but then perhaps that bucket caught most of the idiot voters, and the rest of the votes are pretty accurate.  In any case, I've seen Duke win several similar polls, including one taken by PC Gamer magazine.  Perhaps they're all bogus, but then maybe at some point you have to think they're somewhat accurate.

Anyway, I only present this to show that players still think about Duke, he's far from forgotten.  And as most of us know, it's better to be remembered than forgotten, because mindshare like Duke has is very, very tough to buy or acquire, no matter how you slice it.
#9 by "mgns"
2001-12-03 17:42:35
wratte@home.se
re: Who is your favorite game action hero?

Kurt Hectic!

---
my other .sig is a funny one.
#10 by "Flamethrower"
2001-12-03 17:48:51
patch@evilemail.com www.Jesus-vs-Judas.com
Commander Jameson.

Best. Character. Evar.
#11 by "Bailey"
2001-12-03 17:52:55
bailey@evilemail.com
Scott

Anyway, I only present this to show that players still think about Duke, he's far from forgotten. And as most of us know, it's better to be remembered than forgotten, because mindshare like Duke has is very, very tough to buy or acquire, no matter how you slice it.

Oh, no argument there. I'm one of the few who's Duke enthusiasm is low-level enough I don't really care about delays or follow the development, but still moderately enjoy playing the games. Duke's yakking and whatnot obviously gave him more personality than, say, the Doom Marine, so yeah, more memorable. One might argue that his quotes earned him as much negative flak as positive praise, what with the whole Evil Dead/misogyny angles, but like I said, I'm too casual a fan to get into those debates.
#12 by "leslie nassar"
2001-12-03 18:00:18
http://www.leslienassar.com/
It's too bad game developers don't include a "Fuck You" section in the credits.


Fuck You

Wired
M3G4D3TH
Z3R0K001
ShugaShack
LeetGamerz
...
#13 by "MaverickUK"
2001-12-03 18:13:33
peter.bridger@tpg.co.uk http://www.thisstrife.com/
Flamethrower (#10):
Commander Jameson.

Best. Character. Evar.


Are you talking about Elite there Mr Flamey?

--
Mav
\"What kinda shithole planet is this!?\"
#14 by "Sgt Hulka"
2001-12-03 18:17:51
hulka@clownpenis.fart http://www.hulka.com
16 more days

..... Today in BurkerKingland "Hulka's stomach is bigger than his ass"
#15 by "Hugin"
2001-12-03 18:20:16
lmccain@nber.org
Okay, what's this about PC closing down? Serious and true?  Humorous and false?  Why?
#16 by "----"
2001-12-03 18:31:06
Good lord it should be illegal for all those 'COOL!' character names to be in one place, the sheer stupidness of the RADICAL TOUGH GUY naming scheme is killing me and making me ashamed to be a gamer.
#17 by "Jonathan 'Funkdrunk' Richards"
2001-12-03 18:31:34
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
Hugin

Morn posted it in the previous forum.

Funk.
#18 by "Hugin"
2001-12-03 18:35:23
lmccain@nber.org
Yes, but, there's no confirmation as to whether it's a dry joke of some sort, or serious, and no explanation as to why (if it's serious).
#19 by "Apache"
2001-12-03 18:39:49
http://www.videogamingnews.com/
6: Slick Dick Willy was just our version of Cowboy Neal /.

we usually like to through in a "I don't give a shit" type option in most of our polls.
#20 by "Jonathan 'Funkdrunk' Richards"
2001-12-03 18:41:25
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
Hugin

I'd like to hope it's a joke, but Morn's absence from the site as of late speaks volumes.  And Gabe even implied that Morn has waining interest in the site.  So unfortunately, I don't believe it's a joke.  I hope I'm wrong.

Funk.
#21 by "hmmm"
2001-12-03 18:44:01
hmmm@hmmm.com
testing...
#22 by "Gabe"
2001-12-03 18:44:48
gabe@opencrap.org http://www.opencrap.org
You never know, but I would take it as pretty serious.
#23 by "crash"
2001-12-03 18:59:05
crash@planetcrap.com
so the poll shows... the effectiveness of promoting a character-based franchise among a select, small group of hard-core gamers, which themselves are a niche market. congratulations on that .25% mindshare, i guess. that'll translate into 5k sales maybe. of course, another 50k'll pirate the thing, but hey, it's all about the franchise.

and this translates into a good game--or a completed game, or a boxed game--exactly how? i'm trying to link the two, but i can't. someone throw me a bone here.

because at the end of the day, mindshare means zip if you ain't makin money from it.
#24 by "Scott Miller"
2001-12-03 19:05:36
scottm@3drealms.com www.3DRealms.com
Crash:  "because at the end of the day, mindshare means zip if you ain't makin money from it."

You'd be surprised.  heh heh  ;-)
#25 by "Foogla"
2001-12-03 19:06:15
Foogla@gmx.de
Favorite named computer game hero? Vertigo One.
#26 by "Apache"
2001-12-03 19:21:50
http://www.videogamingnews.com/
other fun Duke related VE polls.. :)

Which one of these games do you think will ship last?
10/30/2001

Duke Nukem Forever (3408)
 31%
TeamFortress 2 (2156)
 20%
World of WarCraft (1426)
 13%
DOOM 3 (1242)
 11%
Halo (PC) (710)
 7%
They all suck? (425)
 4%
Star Wars Galaxies (398)
 4%
Deus Ex 2 (289)
 3%
WarCraft III (270)
 2%
Unreal 2 (232)
 2%
Thief 3 (199)
 2%
Unreal Warfare (157)
 1%

Total Votes: 10912
 

Duke Nukem Forever?
01/25/2001

Ask me in 2005 (1747)
 48%
It'll kick ass! (1037)
 29%
Yawn, another FPS... (443)
 12%
Vaporware! (383)
 11%

Total Votes: 3610
#27 by "JMCDaveL"
2001-12-03 19:28:12
jmcdavel@mailandnews.com http://www.planetcrap.com
I liked the concept of Duke Nukem better when it was a tongue-in-cheek (even before the whole ripping off Evil Dead thing) cheesy action movie type game, but the efforts to make him "cool" and "edgy" are really pitiful. The guy's name is Duke Nukem, taking him seriously is not an option. And 3d Realms, it does not take much to soil a good name forever, witness Romero and Daikatana.

As for comparing the 4 year cycle of Max Payne to DNF, you are going to tell me you developed your own engine for DNF like they did with MP, right? Maybe you should call Derek Smart and have him come finish your game for you, he seems rather productive lately.

--jmc
#28 by "crash"
2001-12-03 19:41:36
crash@planetcrap.com

You'd be surprised. heh heh ;-)

oh, yes, i'd forgotten about the Lording It Over People Who Don't Really Care On Internet Messageboards factor. just an oversight, i assure you.
#29 by "Apache"
2001-12-03 19:47:52
http://www.videogamingnews.com/
you could run that most liked hero poll on gamespot and get similar results I'd reckon. 3D Realms is one of the only developers that attempts to even have characters with a personality or presence, which makes them very memorable, if not likeable. not everyone likes the guy, but he's about the highest profile PC games action hero there is.
#30 by "Warren Marshall"
2001-12-03 19:55:12
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicboy.com
crash
oh, yes, i'd forgotten about the Lording It Over People Who Don't Really Care On Internet Messageboards factor. just an oversight, i assure you.

I don't want to speak for Scott, but if you're going to attempt to downplay the importance of a recognizable name like Duke Nukem, what more can he say?  That's more valuable than gold.

===

I am a magnificent three-toed sloth.
#31 by "Matthew Gallant"
2001-12-03 20:04:23
mg@truemeaningoflife.com http://truemeaningoflife.com
Duke Nukem was listed as favorite action character because Ash wasn't a choice.

How about we hail to the real king?
#32 by "Gunp01nt"
2001-12-03 20:14:12
the best game character of all time is Lei Fang from DOA2 and 3!
You are a bunch of gay homosexual faggots!!!!

PlanetCrap closing down... hmm. Woopeey!! that'll make me at least 3 times more productive behind any internet-connected computer!!

thanks, morn! but can we get c-shirts as a memoir?
#33 by "Hugin"
2001-12-03 20:19:23
lmccain@nber.org
Okay, just a second, i want to check something.  Do people, either people here, or maybe your gaming buddies, or your gaming little siblings or cousins or something, does anyone think Duke Nukem, the character, is cool?  Not memorable.  Not amusing.  But actually cool, edgy, anything like that?  Because I like Rainer Wolfcastle/McBain on the Simpsons, and I..well, I dislike Johnny Bravo on Cartoon network, I think he's a tool.  But both of those guys are closer to who I think of when I think of Duke Nukem.  Not Ash, despite the taglines.  Or anyone else "cool" I could think of.
#34 by "crash"
2001-12-03 20:20:14
crash@planetcrap.com
Warren:

That's more valuable than gold.

which is my point--intrinsic value is nice for what it is, but it doesn't matter when you need to buy groceries. money in the bank only pays the rent when you spend it, if you know what i mean. not saying Duke isn't a valuable franchise or a recognizable name, because it clearly is. the nine hundred billion ports and spinoffs tell that tale if nothing else does. i'm saying that its value depends on how you turn it into money.

winning fansite polls is nice for what it is, but how much revenue does that generate? well, zero, huh? that's what i'm saying. turn it into a game, and put it on the shelf, and then we'll talk. oh, wait.

and for the record, platinum, plutonium, uranium, cocaine, and heroin are all more valuable than gold. :)
#35 by "Hugin"
2001-12-03 20:21:31
lmccain@nber.org
Which is not a criticism of Duke Nukem as a game, Scott Miller, 3D Realms, etc. That's not where I'm coming from. This is more a branding/mascot positioning thing.
#36 by "crash"
2001-12-03 20:22:13
crash@planetcrap.com

the best game character of all time is Lei Fang from DOA2 and 3!
You are a bunch of gay homosexual faggots!!!!

it's all about Tina. sorry. Lei Fang is but a pale shadow of Tina's truckstop-blonde brawling goodness.
#37 by "Gestalt"
2001-12-03 20:24:29
john@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
Flamethrower - "Commander Jameson. Best. Character. Evar."

Right on, Commander!


Apache - "3D Realms is one of the only developers that attempts to even have characters with a personality or presence"

You've been playing too many first person shooters. ;) Try an adventure or role-playing game one day...
#38 by "Warren Marshall"
2001-12-03 20:27:41
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicboy.com
Flamethrower - "Commander Jameson. Best. Character. Evar."

Right on, Commander!

Any relation to Jenna?

===

I am a magnificent three-toed sloth.
#39 by "Apache"
2001-12-03 20:29:35
http://www.videogamingnews.com/
>>You've been playing too many first person shooters. ;) Try an adventure or role-playing game one day...<<

Maybe I should :)

btw - Who are some of your favorite hero types in those genres?
#40 by "Matthew Gallant"
2001-12-03 20:32:20
mg@truemeaningoflife.com http://truemeaningoflife.com
Good 'ol Duke Nukem, he only wants two things for Christmas.
#41 by "Bailey"
2001-12-03 20:33:42
bailey@evilemail.com
Hugin

I've never heard anyone describe Duke as "cool". Just vaguely amusing, though the whole DN universe is vaguely amusing, pig cops and whatnot, on a puerile level. I sort of look at it... hrmm... about on the level of Southpark, though not to such an exaggerated degree. It's base, it's toilet humor, but it's amusing if you can stoop low and walk in the gutter for a while with no reservations towards what you're willing to laugh at. Then again, I stopped watching Southpark a long time ago, and haven't played a Duke game for about, what, 6-7 years? Who knows what my reaction now would be, if I was exposed to it for the first time.

"Rip off your head and shit down your neck" isn't Theatre in the Round by any means, but it made me chuckle at the time.
#42 by "Spatula Man"
2001-12-03 20:38:50
llama@verbalchilli.com www.verbalchilli.com
Surely Max of Sam and Max for best character evar?

Hey Sam, I think that cat's kinda cute... Can I make a tennis raquette out of it?
#43 by "Caryn Law"
2001-12-03 20:41:42
carynlaw@pacbell.net
#41 Bailey
Hugin

I've never heard anyone describe Duke as "cool". Just vaguely amusing, though the whole DN universe is vaguely amusing, pig cops and whatnot, on a puerile level.


I've always thought Duke to be one of the best and most memorable game characters because he's so unbelievably over-the-top. He reminds me of the movie "The Last Action Hero", where Arnold Schwartzenegger plays a parody of himself.
#44 by "Apache"
2001-12-03 20:47:37
http://www.videogamingnews.com/
he also reminds me of Arnie in Commando. just saw that the other night, very cheesy, but enjoyable movie :)
#45 by "Hugin"
2001-12-03 20:50:44
lmccain@nber.org
Okay, just checking.  Because yes, Duke is amusing and memorable, on that South Park/McBain parody level.  I was just worried about the idea that he was supposed to be (or I, random gamer person) was supposed to think he was cool.
#46 by "Bailey"
2001-12-03 21:01:36
bailey@evilemail.com
Spatula

My favorite adventure game of all time. The cartoon wasn't even half-bad. "DEATH FROM ABOVE! DEATH FROM ABOVE!"

Caryn

I've always thought Duke to be one of the best and most memorable game characters because he's so unbelievably over-the-top. He reminds me of the movie "The Last Action Hero", where Arnold Schwartzenegger plays a parody of himself.

Well, okay, I'll put it this way. When I was taking a trade course, I was schooling with hard-timer ex-cons and ex-military types, some who were a combination of the two. In all honesty, and I say this with no ill-will in my heart towards Scott or 3DR, they made Duke seem pretty vanilla, personality-wise. I'm like Johnny Cash, I think prison folk are the greatest folk. Well, except for all the shower-rape and shivving people in the kidneys, but maybe that's part of their charm at the same time. So, amusing, yes, memorable, yes, but over-the-top? I'm fairly ambivalent there.

As for Last Action Hero, I'll quote my alter-ego as per m0nty's definition: "Yeah, magic ticket my ass, McBain."
#47 by "Gunp01nt"
2001-12-03 21:02:43
bailey:
I've never heard anyone describe Duke as "cool".

Duke is cool.
#48 by "Hugin"
2001-12-03 21:03:46
lmccain@nber.org
By the way, was there ever a Big Trouble in Little China game?  Can you imagine the glory of it? Jack Burton (another great over the top parody character), fighting his way through the back alleys of Chinatown, through dingy warehouses and teashops (filled with breakable objects of course), and down into the depths of various dungeon/chinese hell levels, with assorted colorful companions like Egg Shen (playable on selected levels), meeting with various sub-bosses (Rain, Thunder, Lightning), before going up against Lo Pan himself...man that would rock.

Sad that the movie driving the license is ancient.  It's time has passed.  Although, givne the amount of serious American version wire-fu movies being done, a Return to Little China on Kurt Russel's part for some action/comedy might not be a bad idea.
#49 by "Hugin"
2001-12-03 21:11:43
lmccain@nber.org
Last Action Hero was admirable in many ways.  I mean, Arnie really did poke fun at his image in various ways, and it also satirized many of the general conventions of action movies.  The movie itself wasn't great, but it was interesting.
#50 by "Narcopolo"
2001-12-03 21:13:16
#48 Hugin-
a Return to Little China on Kurt Russel's part for some action/comedy might not be a bad idea.


Escape From L.A.


All of a sudden, I'm very tired of Duke Nukem.  This thread is like the final straw.  Fuck him.
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